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On November 15 2011 17:49 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:45 mrkent wrote:
I have a very serious question here that I hope people will address:
Did anything ever came of the MVP vs Nestea game at Blizzcon? This coca vs byun case doesn't seem to be premeditated, where as blizzcon game would be (if in fact fixed). However there is no hard evidence of MVP and Nestea fixing it.
I think 2 players with 6 championships possibly fixing their matches is infinitely worse than what what coca and byun did. I can't believe they weren't even asked about it. There's no evidence that it was fixed, and a lot of pro players said it looked real and probably wasn't faked (zerg felt like he had no options).
Nestea just became zergbong for a few minutes.
OnTopic: I think it's a good decision by SlayerS. Match fixing must NEVER be allowed and it's good to see how serious they are taking it. So disappointed at CoCa. He was one of my favourite zergs.
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On November 15 2011 17:54 Strydor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:47 Zeddicus wrote:I feel this is about equivalent to this type of situation: + Show Spoiler +A goalie celebrates too early, and ends up letting a goal go by while celebrating Coca made a ballsy move and ended up losing. I don't see how anyone can call this match fixing. I see it as "I just wanted to play one more game". He looks like an idiot for not taking the win when he should have. That's all the more punishment he needs. This kind of reaction is baffling: On November 15 2011 17:25 Strydor wrote:
Now Coca on the other hand. It's obvious that he threw the game, regardless of the reasons. He was caught red handed with video and picture proof, not just some person going "Hey, I think they fixed the match." and saying things based on evidence that had not yet been brought to light.
What Coca did, to put it crudely, is throw all the hard work that the organisers of the tournament did to get to the level it is back to their faces. It could also have cost potential sponsors with a mark like this which calls into question the legitimacy of e-sports tournaments. Are you serious? Caught red handed? He wasn't hiding anything. Calls into question the legitimacy of e-sports? I just don't see it at all. On November 15 2011 17:25 .Sic. wrote:
2. Coca blatantly left a game that he had won. He took a tournament as a joke, thereby taking away its legitimacy.
...
4. Right now, his mere presence in code S is a stain on the legitimacy of the Korean SC2 scene
Conclusion:
1. It was necessary for Coca to forfeit his spot to ensure the survival of starcraft 2 in Korea
How would Starcraft 2 die if Coca didn't forfeit his spot? How is Coca being around do anything to the legitimacy of SC2? We have people smurfing in tournaments in the foreign scene and nothing is said, no action is taken. That is far worse than this. And even so, it still doesn't matter. It's not a big deal. SC2 will go on. MLB Players are going to use steroids, but Baseball will go on. This doesn't even come close to comparing to Steroids. People love to drum up their drama at the drop of a hat, but this is the most ludicrous overreaction I've ever seen. So, how would you tell if Coca meets another teammate in Code S and loses by playing badly? I meant that he got caught doing something he should not even have contemplating doing, it throws away the legitimacy by showing that he's doing this more for entertainment than playing to win, like a professional player should be doing. If I wanted to watch players win in scripted matches, I'd be watching WWE. I watch Starcraft 2 to support the players I like and hope that they win in fair and straight up matches. If they get cheesed out... too bad, but at least they played fairly.
The matches themselves weren't scripted.
Also, Coca seems to only did this because there was nothing on the line for him, there was no gain for winning and not loss for losing either. All he wanted was practice and he got what he wanted
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
Lol.....
WTF 0.O this is crazy and so stupid, why would you do this!? Rofl atleast type on MSN so the whole fkn stream cant see lol wtf. If you cheat atleast do it fkn properly lmao
sigh kids these days!
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They shouldn't have submitted the replays, and instead just state that Coca forfeits, and there would have been no trouble, because official forfeits are accepted by everyone.
But they submitted them, and most of us were well satisfied to see their play overall. Much better than no games. If only there was some warning note, like: "Coca forfeits, but if you like you can cast these games just for build content value".
Forfeiting isn't cheating. The insanity is the opposite -- trying to punish and coerce people into never forfeiting. Sorry, but friendship doesn't kill esports.
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Russian Federation1849 Posts
The punishment is kinda too hard for a simple stupidity... ㅠ_ㅠ
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Humm, these kids should get banned from the GSL.
I don't think that what they did deserves for them to be banned but if savior is banned from the GSL for match fixing in another league, then I believe that they too should be banned for match fixing in another league.
The way I see it there is no difference between them and savior, except for savior being a god...
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Oh wow, that really is pretty dumb by them. They should have realized what they were about to do. Sad for them both after earning their spots. Good however to see the respective teams take action quickly.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Mf1dp.png)
"I'm sorry. I'm truly sorry."
Why Byunnn? Why?
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Perhaps a temporarily ban from korean tournament, but SlayerS should allow CoCa to play oversea. I think CoCa could rebuild his credential by succeeding oversea tournaments.
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I don't know what to say... it's a tragedy.
I can understand the punishment, but I also want to say that
as a audience, I don't feel THAT MUCH be insulted by their action.
You can feel they are 50% joking becuase they type the words on
the screen, not by other more secret means. I really hope they can
get warned and still can show us good games.
Hope we can see Coca and Byun on GSL very soon.
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On November 15 2011 17:57 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:54 Strydor wrote:On November 15 2011 17:47 Zeddicus wrote:I feel this is about equivalent to this type of situation: + Show Spoiler +Coca made a ballsy move and ended up losing. I don't see how anyone can call this match fixing. I see it as "I just wanted to play one more game". He looks like an idiot for not taking the win when he should have. That's all the more punishment he needs. This kind of reaction is baffling: On November 15 2011 17:25 Strydor wrote:
Now Coca on the other hand. It's obvious that he threw the game, regardless of the reasons. He was caught red handed with video and picture proof, not just some person going "Hey, I think they fixed the match." and saying things based on evidence that had not yet been brought to light.
What Coca did, to put it crudely, is throw all the hard work that the organisers of the tournament did to get to the level it is back to their faces. It could also have cost potential sponsors with a mark like this which calls into question the legitimacy of e-sports tournaments. Are you serious? Caught red handed? He wasn't hiding anything. Calls into question the legitimacy of e-sports? I just don't see it at all. On November 15 2011 17:25 .Sic. wrote:
2. Coca blatantly left a game that he had won. He took a tournament as a joke, thereby taking away its legitimacy.
...
4. Right now, his mere presence in code S is a stain on the legitimacy of the Korean SC2 scene
Conclusion:
1. It was necessary for Coca to forfeit his spot to ensure the survival of starcraft 2 in Korea
How would Starcraft 2 die if Coca didn't forfeit his spot? How is Coca being around do anything to the legitimacy of SC2? We have people smurfing in tournaments in the foreign scene and nothing is said, no action is taken. That is far worse than this. And even so, it still doesn't matter. It's not a big deal. SC2 will go on. MLB Players are going to use steroids, but Baseball will go on. This doesn't even come close to comparing to Steroids. People love to drum up their drama at the drop of a hat, but this is the most ludicrous overreaction I've ever seen. So, how would you tell if Coca meets another teammate in Code S and loses by playing badly? I meant that he got caught doing something he should not even have contemplating doing, it throws away the legitimacy by showing that he's doing this more for entertainment than playing to win, like a professional player should be doing. If I wanted to watch players win in scripted matches, I'd be watching WWE. I watch Starcraft 2 to support the players I like and hope that they win in fair and straight up matches. If they get cheesed out... too bad, but at least they played fairly. The matches themselves weren't scripted. Also, Coca seems to only did this because there was nothing on the line for him, there was no gain for winning and not loss for losing either. All he wanted was practice and he got what he wanted
True, they weren't... but the outcome was determined in a non-legitimate manner, to me it's still the same thing.
That said, it's my own opinion. I felt the punishments were justifiably harsh and a smart thing to do, seeing as the situation could have easily snowballed into something much bigger.
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This honestly sucks...
Well the problem is that you can win a code A spot in this tournament.
So i understand the upset...
But i don't think they really thought about this.
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On November 15 2011 18:00 hoivenmayven wrote:"I'm sorry. I'm truly sorry." Why Byunnn? Why?
Awww, how can anyone be mad at a guy with that avatar? ^_^
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On November 15 2011 18:01 DeathPengu wrote:
I don't know what to say... it's a tragedy.
I can understand the punishment, but I also want to say that
as a audience, I don't feel THAT MUCH be insulted by their action.
You can feel they are 50% joking becuase they type the words on
the screen, not by other more secret means. I really hope they can
get warned and still can show us good games.
Hope we can see Coca and Byun on GSL very soon.
Please.. people react enough to this stupid sc2 drama without you throwing in "tragedy"
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Wow, brain fart indeed.
Punishment is good, if only for the purpose of making people think twice. Becaues quite honestly they hardly thought twice about it, if even once. This was probably a case of not taking the tourny serious at all and not even considering the consequenses it could bring. Had they truly been scheming about it, they'd hardly have done it in public. Their stupidity saves them from harsher punishment imo, and I hope they get back soon.
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Out of curiosity, would people actually care as much if Coca just randomly forfeited instead of playing it out and said he had other stuff to do?
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Um, I feel like their mistake was getting caught. If a match doesn't matter to someone then they aren't going to take it seriously and that's kind of the tournys fault. Maybe this is too different to make a connection.. But at IPL3 ? Idra didn't even want/need to play in the pool play and forfeited all his rounds, because he was the same seed no matter what. Of course it was because he was tired or w./e, but the same basic principle should apply, IMO. So, i guess the biggest thing about this is the culture, and the overreaction, like they are smart guys, they probably didn't expect it to go down this way. I mean they could even pm themselves ingame and have accomplished the same thing.
TLDR: punishment does not suit the crime.
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On November 15 2011 17:49 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 17:45 mrkent wrote:
I have a very serious question here that I hope people will address:
Did anything ever came of the MVP vs Nestea game at Blizzcon? This coca vs byun case doesn't seem to be premeditated, where as blizzcon game would be (if in fact fixed). However there is no hard evidence of MVP and Nestea fixing it.
I think 2 players with 6 championships possibly fixing their matches is infinitely worse than what what coca and byun did. I can't believe they weren't even asked about it. There's no evidence that it was fixed, and a lot of pro players said it looked real and probably wasn't faked (zerg felt like he had no options).
For that 10 minutes from when Nestea grew his bank from 5k to 10k and MVP was just taking his 4th base you mean? He had no options?
Here's what I think happened: MVP can obviously beat Nestea, as well as anyone else in that tournament. He let Nestea have a free 2nd place while he come back from the losers bracket. They planned for an "epic" match, but totally bombed it.
I would very much appreciate a link to these pro player quotes defending Nestea tho. And more importantly, is Nestea himself quoted denying allegations?
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On November 15 2011 18:03 SevenShots wrote:
This honestly sucks...
Well the problem is that you can win a code A spot in this tournament.
So i understand the upset...
But i don't think they really thought about this.
For like the 2308432th time in this thread, you CAN NOT win code A spot in this tournament.
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I remember when White-Ra match-fixed in the open bracket at MLG.
Sad stuff, to see these progamers fall from their pedestals of crowning human achievement and sully their souls with promises of money and whores.
Or not.
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EPT
