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On November 15 2011 16:32 Oktyabr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all. Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know Or he could simply leave Slayers without forfeiting his Code S spot, and bam, there, continue playing as per usual. He can even follow that up by tweeting the whole world "bye slayers" and see if any foreigner team wants him. GOMTV hasn't even had a chance to decide on the proper course of action before he vacated his spot. IMO him leaving Code S is indicative that he's actually supportive of the punishment that he has been given by is own team. He obviously wants to stay on Slayers, and hence he's accepting those stipulations imposed on him. This is in no way career ending. Boxer already states explicitly that he still has a future ahead of him, nobody just knows when yet.
I don't know about you, but leaving Slayers (and probably won't get accepted into any decent Korean teams because of that) will be worst for your career as you probably won't get good practices anymore and therefore fall behind and eventually fall out of Code S anyways. (not saying this is the reason why he didnt choose to leave Slayers tho)
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Kind of seems like Byun did a little peer pressure there.Not taking any thign away from cocoa.But cocoa kicks his butt then jokes with him and byun is raging hard and getting pretty personal, seems like it would have been pretty akward with cocoa and byun cause byun wa sgetting really direct and cocoa might have not though it a big deal and left game.
Try and understand theres no bias here, just a theory. Cocoa was just being polite and didnt wana make a scene(if that makes any sense) I know I didnt explain it well, but you see what Im getting at.?
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On November 15 2011 16:07 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:04 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On November 15 2011 15:48 Tsubbi wrote:
The 2 friends were fooling around in a freaking online cup that means nothing (sorry Diamond), now his career is basically in shambles.
There are many things i love about the korean culture, but this kind of disprportionate treatment by his team and punishment of a 17 year old is not one of them. FYI, neither does the Olympics have any outcome or prize (aside from the medals) Olympic Gold medal valued at $1,100 I am pretty sure Tiger Woods' career as a pro-golfer would be over if he threw an Olympic event. Can you imagine Tiger Woods saying, "It's just a thousand dollar gold medal, lol" But this is more like your random neighborhood-hosted weekly weekend golf tournament that Tiger Woods joined and decided to mess around with his friend. Still wrong, but definitely not deserving of a potential career ending punishment.
Why not? Unsportsmanlike actions are never acceptable.
No more acceptable than stopping mid-match going back to the team locker because your marker was a former teammate and kept telling you to quit so you can have one more game.
Granted the game should have ended the moment the call to throw the game was posted, that however, needs to be discussed at another thread.
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On November 15 2011 16:32 Oktyabr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all. Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know Or he could simply leave Slayers without forfeiting his Code S spot, and bam, there, continue playing as per usual. He can even follow that up by tweeting the whole world "bye slayers" and see if any foreigner team wants him. GOMTV hasn't even had a chance to decide on the proper course of action before he vacated his spot. IMO him leaving Code S is indicative that he's actually supportive of the punishment that he has been given by is own team. He obviously wants to stay on Slayers, and hence he's accepting those stipulations imposed on him. This is in no way career ending. Boxer already states explicitly that he still has a future ahead of him, nobody just knows when yet.
What Slayers is doing is trying to save Cocoa from a longer ban by taking these actions to essentially placate GOM. Sports teams do it all the time where they suspend there player 1 game or 2 depending on sport in order to alleviate the fear that the league in charge (GOM in this case) would try to make an example of the wrongdoer.
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On November 15 2011 16:15 _Depression wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:11 echO [W] wrote:On November 15 2011 15:57 _Depression wrote:On November 15 2011 15:54 FiWiFaKi wrote:Poll: Should what these two players did be legal?No (73) 70% Yes (31) 30% 104 total votes Your vote: Should what these two players did be legal? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
This to me is totally fine. No money was involved, it is done in many sports like F1 to let their other driver win. It is a flawed system is people can drop games to benefit them. Why is this even a question? No, absolutely no. What you just said even proves it - it's done in a flawed system. Flawed as in it needs fixing, that allowing it to happen is inherently wrong. If I'm not mistaken, In the Chess and Magic the Gathering communities, "strategic forfeit" is an accepted part of the community/scene. The only time forfeiting is strategic is when you get an advantage from it. Remember when IdrA decided to stop playing in IPL3's pool play? He was already guaranteed a seed for the Championship bracket, and he decided to rest. That's strategic. Saying "You asked for another game even though I could advance by killing your ass right now" is not strategic.
Not in Chess or MTG, again if I'm not mistaken, players will forfeit games ("draw in"/"forfeit in") outright to benefit their friends especially in Swiss formats where you are safe, but your opponent may not be. (Not saying this should or should not be the case in StarCraft 2 or any other eSport)
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wow, this is really surprising... Man CoCa/Byun... that was dumbbbb
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On November 15 2011 16:34 Sephyr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:30 Diamond wrote:On November 15 2011 16:29 SniXSniPe wrote:On November 15 2011 16:24 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all. Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know Good, it's a well deserved punishment. If he wants to be an idiot he shall get what he deserves. Yeah, because sacrificing several thousands of dollars + a team house + a hurt reputation isn't a bit excessive for 17 year old kid who wasn't even committing that terrible of a deed. All he did was join a tournament to practice, and gave up one game to his friend. I don't see any written rule being broken anywhere--- it's not like this didn't happen at MLG for WhiteRa, or DeMusliM for the EGWC right? For gods sake, you people acted like he was one of the BW players aiming to extort the system and make thousands of dollars in an UNLAWFUL manner. From the Korean Weekly player handbook that is sent to every team, is 9 pages, and has both a English and fully translated Korean copy: "3: No cheating. This includes but is not limited to, hacks, third-party programs, minimap enlargement tools, automated scripts, “macro keys”. This also includes people messaging you in game, or account sharing/playing under an ID you did not register for. Any cheating of any kind will be dealt with harshly and we will also forward the incident to both GOM TV and the Korean Players Association, along with other notable Non-Korean tournament organizers (Teamliquid, NASL, MLG, etc). We take this VERY seriously. Not every type of cheating is covered here, but if there is a new method of cheating we don’t cover currently, it still counts. Do not test this rule. Note that violation of this rule is an automatic forfeiture of your prize money you earned in the event that the violation occurred in." He gave himself an extra game to practice and the crowd an extra game to watch. You yourself gained some extra revenue out of it. Was there anyone who actually did not benefit from this?
I honestly cannot believe you're actually saying that match fixing is ok in any form.
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On November 15 2011 16:29 SniXSniPe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:24 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all. Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know Good, it's a well deserved punishment. If he wants to be an idiot he shall get what he deserves. Yeah, because sacrificing several thousands of dollars + a team house + a hurt reputation isn't a bit excessive for 17 year old kid who wasn't even committing that terrible of a deed. All he did was join a tournament to practice, and gave up one game to his friend. I don't see any written rule being broken anywhere--- it's not like this didn't happen at MLG for WhiteRa, or DeMusliM for the EGWC right? He's a Code S player already, he had nothing to gain and he just wanted ZvT practice mostly. For gods sake, you people acted like he was one of the BW players aiming to extort the system and make thousands of dollars in an UNLAWFUL manner. If he had wanted to do something so bad would he really chat in games and make jokes at the same time? If anything, I would be upset with how SlayerS is responding. I imagine they might have had some influence of CoCa giving up his hard earned Code S spot he worked for.
MLG admins have the duty to enforce their own laws. Fact that they didn't do anything has no implications whatsoever to SlayerS's decision.
DeMusliM actually asked an admin if he could forfeit and didn't actually play the game. He just decided to forfeit. Granted he played through the first couple of rounds in the tournament, but the thing is he didn't make a fool of himself by blatantly disrespecting the competition.
I'm pretty sure ESV has tons of forfeits in their weeklies. Those people go unpunished why? Because they don't play the game, get up to 5 or 6 bases against a 1 base opponent chat about throwing the game explicitly in game and then actually throw the game. Oh, and even if they did they probably wouldn't send the replay of what they just did.
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good luck coca & slayers !
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On November 15 2011 16:30 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:29 SniXSniPe wrote:On November 15 2011 16:24 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all. Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know Good, it's a well deserved punishment. If he wants to be an idiot he shall get what he deserves. Yeah, because sacrificing several thousands of dollars + a team house + a hurt reputation isn't a bit excessive for 17 year old kid who wasn't even committing that terrible of a deed. All he did was join a tournament to practice, and gave up one game to his friend. I don't see any written rule being broken anywhere--- it's not like this didn't happen at MLG for WhiteRa, or DeMusliM for the EGWC right? For gods sake, you people acted like he was one of the BW players aiming to extort the system and make thousands of dollars in an UNLAWFUL manner. From the Korean Weekly player handbook that is sent to every team, is 9 pages, and has both a English and fully translated Korean copy: Show nested quote +"3: No cheating. This includes but is not limited to, hacks, third-party programs, minimap enlargement tools, automated scripts, “macro keys”. This also includes people messaging you in game, or account sharing/playing under an ID you did not register for. Any cheating of any kind will be dealt with harshly and we will also forward the incident to both GOM TV and the Korean Players Association, along with other notable Non-Korean tournament organizers (Teamliquid, NASL, MLG, etc). We take this VERY seriously. Not every type of cheating is covered here, but if there is a new method of cheating we don’t cover currently, it still counts. Do not test this rule. Note that violation of this rule is an automatic forfeiture of your prize money you earned in the event that the violation occurred in."
Not that I don't know throwing away the game is wrong or anything, but just want to clarify, which of the following does throwing away a game fall under? : "This includes but is not limited to, hacks, third-party programs, minimap enlargement tools, automated scripts, “macro keys”. This also includes people messaging you in game, or account sharing/playing under an ID you did not register for."
I'm guessing the "but is not limited to" part? But then again this would seem really vague for a rule as you can say this for almost anything
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This happens everywhere all the time.
I don't really see the big deal.
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On November 15 2011 16:31 kamicom wrote:
There's one thing that EVERYONE overlooked. The Clefairy (original poster) was WAY off on the translating. wtf man, he doesn't even dialogue it correctly (the Coco says other things). Can we get a damn Korean to translate that properly??
Of course this is still a terrible thing to do, especially after that whole mass crackdown on the match-fixing scandal that Kespa had to deal with.
I am Korean. I just combined the run-on sentences into one sentence instead of two different chat instances.
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On November 15 2011 13:35 dde wrote:
i wonder if he will leave slayers and start looking for foreign team
I was going to suggest Fnatic with TT1, but I just remembered he announced his departure already! Who knows then, anything is possible.
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Wow that is so sad for coca. He was one of the only zergs getting good results in Korea. He is one of my fav players to watch especially his ZvP. This saddens me alot 
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This shouldnt be considered match fixing in the traditional sense simply cause Coca received no monetary benefit for throwing the match. Its not like hes making a ton of money by losing... as far as we know. If he feels a friendship with Byun is more important than the weekly and decides to leave why cant he?
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Cella just tweeted:
@SlayersCella
Cella
Just remember what happened today. And never for get it.
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On November 15 2011 16:36 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:34 Sephyr wrote:On November 15 2011 16:30 Diamond wrote:On November 15 2011 16:29 SniXSniPe wrote:On November 15 2011 16:24 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all. Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know Good, it's a well deserved punishment. If he wants to be an idiot he shall get what he deserves. Yeah, because sacrificing several thousands of dollars + a team house + a hurt reputation isn't a bit excessive for 17 year old kid who wasn't even committing that terrible of a deed. All he did was join a tournament to practice, and gave up one game to his friend. I don't see any written rule being broken anywhere--- it's not like this didn't happen at MLG for WhiteRa, or DeMusliM for the EGWC right? For gods sake, you people acted like he was one of the BW players aiming to extort the system and make thousands of dollars in an UNLAWFUL manner. From the Korean Weekly player handbook that is sent to every team, is 9 pages, and has both a English and fully translated Korean copy: "3: No cheating. This includes but is not limited to, hacks, third-party programs, minimap enlargement tools, automated scripts, “macro keys”. This also includes people messaging you in game, or account sharing/playing under an ID you did not register for. Any cheating of any kind will be dealt with harshly and we will also forward the incident to both GOM TV and the Korean Players Association, along with other notable Non-Korean tournament organizers (Teamliquid, NASL, MLG, etc). We take this VERY seriously. Not every type of cheating is covered here, but if there is a new method of cheating we don’t cover currently, it still counts. Do not test this rule. Note that violation of this rule is an automatic forfeiture of your prize money you earned in the event that the violation occurred in." He gave himself an extra game to practice and the crowd an extra game to watch. You yourself gained some extra revenue out of it. Was there anyone who actually did not benefit from this? I honestly cannot believe you're actually saying that match fixing is ok in any form.
Do you even know what match-fixing is? I'm pretty sure I stated it a few pages back.
Here, let me type it out for you.
Match-fixing is when the result of an upcoming match is pre-determined before the game happens. Was this match pre-determined?
This is more of a thrown game. He won, but he chose to just throw the game. Idra, Sjow, Morrow, Stephano, Brat_OK and so on have done it before.
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I think people are making too big of a deal here. It's not like this was in a GSL, WCG, MLG or something really worth anything. I wouldn't give this a 2nd thought tbh.
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Incredibly sad stuff. It is unfortunate that this decision has to impact his GSL future.
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On November 15 2011 16:40 Sephyr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 16:36 Dodgin wrote:On November 15 2011 16:34 Sephyr wrote:On November 15 2011 16:30 Diamond wrote:On November 15 2011 16:29 SniXSniPe wrote:On November 15 2011 16:24 ZorBa.G wrote:On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all. Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know Good, it's a well deserved punishment. If he wants to be an idiot he shall get what he deserves. Yeah, because sacrificing several thousands of dollars + a team house + a hurt reputation isn't a bit excessive for 17 year old kid who wasn't even committing that terrible of a deed. All he did was join a tournament to practice, and gave up one game to his friend. I don't see any written rule being broken anywhere--- it's not like this didn't happen at MLG for WhiteRa, or DeMusliM for the EGWC right? For gods sake, you people acted like he was one of the BW players aiming to extort the system and make thousands of dollars in an UNLAWFUL manner. From the Korean Weekly player handbook that is sent to every team, is 9 pages, and has both a English and fully translated Korean copy: "3: No cheating. This includes but is not limited to, hacks, third-party programs, minimap enlargement tools, automated scripts, “macro keys”. This also includes people messaging you in game, or account sharing/playing under an ID you did not register for. Any cheating of any kind will be dealt with harshly and we will also forward the incident to both GOM TV and the Korean Players Association, along with other notable Non-Korean tournament organizers (Teamliquid, NASL, MLG, etc). We take this VERY seriously. Not every type of cheating is covered here, but if there is a new method of cheating we don’t cover currently, it still counts. Do not test this rule. Note that violation of this rule is an automatic forfeiture of your prize money you earned in the event that the violation occurred in." He gave himself an extra game to practice and the crowd an extra game to watch. You yourself gained some extra revenue out of it. Was there anyone who actually did not benefit from this? I honestly cannot believe you're actually saying that match fixing is ok in any form. Do you even know what match-fixing is? I'm pretty sure I stated it a few pages back. Here, let me type it out for you. Match-fixing is when the result of an upcoming match is pre-determined before the game happens. Was this match pre-determined? This is more of a thrown game. He won, but he chose to just throw the game. Idra, Sjow, Morrow, Stephano, Brat_OK and so on have done it before.
Do you know that it was not pre-determined?
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EPT
