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Coca forfeits Code S due to ESV weekly scandal - Page 42

Forum Index > SC2 General
1944 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 40 41 42 43 44 98 Next
Fuhrmaaj
Profile Joined January 2011
167 Posts
November 15 2011 07:27 GMT
#821
On November 15 2011 16:23 Datum wrote:
Fuck my liquibet


Haha! Luckily, I bet that Coca would get DQed by matchfixing in another tournament. Million to one odds, I'm taking it this season!
Random player
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
November 15 2011 07:28 GMT
#822
Lol..kids will be kids? ^^. Unacceptable, good punishment, im sure it wasnt some big scandal like SaviOr but its still bad enough, the pictures showed like 5 bases to 2? :D
Useless wet fish.
OMGKEI
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia590 Posts
November 15 2011 07:28 GMT
#823
I think both byun and coca are very good players and expect a lot from them in the future. I know everyone would want to make an example out of them to prevent this from happening again. I just hope the punishment will not be too severe that it will destroy their careers.
SidewinderSC2
Profile Joined November 2011
United States236 Posts
November 15 2011 07:29 GMT
#824
Jeez, can't players just play and accept the results for what they are?
SniXSniPe
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1938 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 07:30:39
November 15 2011 07:29 GMT
#825
On November 15 2011 16:24 ZorBa.G wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all.

Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know


Good, it's a well deserved punishment. If he wants to be an idiot he shall get what he deserves.


Yeah, because sacrificing several thousands of dollars + a team house + a hurt reputation isn't a bit excessive for 17 year old kid who wasn't even committing that terrible of a deed. All he did was join a tournament to practice, and gave up one game to his friend. I don't see any written rule being broken anywhere--- it's not like this didn't happen at MLG for WhiteRa, or DeMusliM for the EGWC right? He's a Code S player already, he had nothing to gain and he just wanted ZvT practice mostly.

For gods sake, you people acted like he was one of the BW players aiming to extort the system and make thousands of dollars in an UNLAWFUL manner. If he had wanted to do something so bad would he really chat in games and make jokes at the same time?

If anything, I would be upset with how SlayerS is responding. I imagine they might have had some influence of CoCa giving up his hard earned Code S spot he worked for.
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
November 15 2011 07:29 GMT
#826
Was a foolish mistake. I dont think they actually had any sinister intentions. People are massively overreacting to this imo. Its not uncommon for players to throw games so they can avoid players or get their teammates through.
Fubi
Profile Joined March 2011
2228 Posts
November 15 2011 07:30 GMT
#827
On November 15 2011 16:26 Grettin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:21 Fubi wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:20 Grettin wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:18 MifuneKinski wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:15 _Depression wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:11 echO [W] wrote:
On November 15 2011 15:57 _Depression wrote:
On November 15 2011 15:54 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Poll: Should what these two players did be legal?

No (73)
 
70%

Yes (31)
 
30%

104 total votes

Your vote: Should what these two players did be legal?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No



This to me is totally fine. No money was involved, it is done in many sports like F1 to let their other driver win. It is a flawed system is people can drop games to benefit them.


Why is this even a question? No, absolutely no.

What you just said even proves it - it's done in a flawed system. Flawed as in it needs fixing, that allowing it to happen is inherently wrong.


If I'm not mistaken, In the Chess and Magic the Gathering communities, "strategic forfeit" is an accepted part of the community/scene.


The only time forfeiting is strategic is when you get an advantage from it. Remember when IdrA decided to stop playing in IPL3's pool play? He was already guaranteed a seed for the Championship bracket, and he decided to rest. That's strategic. Saying "You asked for another game even though I could advance by killing your ass right now" is not strategic.


According to the translation - Coca wanted more ZvT practice.


You can practice offline as much as you want. No need to add a stupid excuse like practice when we are talking about tournament game.

He clearly also said in the chat that his teammates aren't available due to being at another tournament.


Then wait till they are available? Are you seriously implying that it's right to lose a tournament game on purpose and admitting it just to get more practice?

He obviously didn't have time to sit around and wait. And no where did I imply that he isn't wrong. I was merely replying to the previous post as to why he decided not to train offline with his teammates. He obviously decided at that time that this was the easiest way to get good practices. Again, not saying that it wasn't the wrong decision, but the previous post was implying that it was an excuse and implying that the intention was fake and that it was something else.
sigma_x
Profile Joined March 2008
Australia285 Posts
November 15 2011 07:30 GMT
#828
So can someone state the rule clearly that has to be followed? The word 'match fix' is laden with too much emotion. Is it:

No pro-gamer may mutually agree with another to win or lose a game in a tournament. The rule is applied strictly:
• even in online tournaments
• even where the players have no intention on making money from the mutual agreement; and
• even where one player accepts an offer from another to lose a game merely to show that they can win the set of matches even after having taken the loss.

Perhaps it's fair to go harshly against a player if you've told them the rule and the consequences. But given that the purposes of preventing match-fixing are to prevent illegal conduct, to make games 'honest' for spectators and to avoid disrepute to the esports scene, none of which are seriously violated in this case, it seems a little unfair.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
November 15 2011 07:30 GMT
#829
On November 15 2011 16:29 SniXSniPe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:24 ZorBa.G wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all.

Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know


Good, it's a well deserved punishment. If he wants to be an idiot he shall get what he deserves.


Yeah, because sacrificing several thousands of dollars + a team house + a hurt reputation isn't a bit excessive for 17 year old kid who wasn't even committing that terrible of a deed. All he did was join a tournament to practice, and gave up one game to his friend. I don't see any written rule being broken anywhere--- it's not like this didn't happen at MLG for WhiteRa, or DeMusliM for the EGWC right?

For gods sake, you people acted like he was one of the BW players aiming to extort the system and make thousands of dollars in an UNLAWFUL manner.


From the Korean Weekly player handbook that is sent to every team, is 9 pages, and has both a English and fully translated Korean copy:

"3: No cheating. This includes but is not limited to, hacks, third-party programs, minimap enlargement tools, automated scripts, “macro keys”. This also includes people messaging you in game, or account sharing/playing under an ID you did not register for. Any cheating of any kind will be dealt with harshly and we will also forward the incident to both GOM TV and the Korean Players Association, along with other notable Non-Korean tournament organizers (Teamliquid, NASL, MLG, etc). We take this VERY seriously. Not every type of cheating is covered here, but if there is a new method of cheating we don’t cover currently, it still counts. Do not test this rule. Note that violation of this rule is an automatic forfeiture of your prize money you earned in the event that the violation occurred in."
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
itkovian
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1763 Posts
November 15 2011 07:31 GMT
#830
Hmm, kind of an odd scenario. They can obviously force action because the players were so obvious about it. But if the players had been more subtle, it would be impossible to stop one player from letting his teammate win. Like, couldn't Coca have just sacked his games by six pooling, or doing some dumb all-ins that can be countered if the opponent preemptively knows its coming?
=)=
TaylorGangOrDie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States104 Posts
November 15 2011 07:31 GMT
#831
On November 15 2011 16:29 SniXSniPe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:24 ZorBa.G wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all.

Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know


Good, it's a well deserved punishment. If he wants to be an idiot he shall get what he deserves.


Yeah, because sacrificing several thousands of dollars + a team house + a hurt reputation isn't a bit excessive for 17 year old kid who wasn't even committing that terrible of a deed. All he did was join a tournament to practice, and gave up one game to his friend. I don't see any written rule being broken anywhere--- it's not like this didn't happen at MLG for WhiteRa, or DeMusliM for the EGWC right? He's a Code S player already, he had nothing to gain and he just wanted ZvT practice mostly.

For gods sake, you people acted like he was one of the BW players aiming to extort the system and make thousands of dollars in an UNLAWFUL manner. If he had wanted to do something so bad would he really chat in games and make jokes at the same time?

If anything, I would be upset with how SlayerS is responding. I imagine they might have had some influence of CoCa giving up his hard earned Code S spot he worked for.




AGREED!!!!
MarineKing / Byun / LosirA - Favorite Players <3
kamicom
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States180 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 07:38:38
November 15 2011 07:31 GMT
#832
There's one thing that EVERYONE overlooked. The Clefairy (original poster) was WAY off on the translating. wtf man, he doesn't even dialogue it correctly (the Coca says other things). Can we get a damn Korean to translate that properly??

That said, to the people who commented before me, the whole reason they get paid is because it's indirectly being funded by viewership. To throw games is unethical and wrong to the viewers who are looking for legitimately good games. If MVP and MMA were playing grandfinals of GSL and one of them just decided to throw all their games, then SURE, it's technically legal (as in probably no rules against that). But clearly there's a code of ethics written between the lines here.

Sure, maybe Coca just made an naive mistake. But league organizers, sponsors, and audience would scold the hell out of him. Especially following the shadows of the Kespa controversy of that massive crackdown on the match-fixing underground ring, the SC community couldn't risk losing the audiences' trust again.
I ragequit if my split fails.
ZorBa.G
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia279 Posts
November 15 2011 07:31 GMT
#833
I'd also like to add, this situation disgusts me. People work too hard to help SC2 e-sports grow. Players with this kind of behaviour is just like throwing all the hard work people have done back in their face. If it were up to me, I would ban Coca and Byun from attending ANY major tournament for the next six months. Somehow, I still feel this isn't enough punishment.

Whats to stop these players from pulling out these antics again.
Oktyabr
Profile Joined July 2011
Singapore2234 Posts
November 15 2011 07:32 GMT
#834
On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all.

Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know


Or he could simply leave Slayers without forfeiting his Code S spot, and bam, there, continue playing as per usual. He can even follow that up by tweeting the whole world "bye slayers" and see if any foreigner team wants him. GOMTV hasn't even had a chance to decide on the proper course of action before he vacated his spot.

IMO him leaving Code S is indicative that he's actually supportive of the punishment that he has been given by is own team. He obviously wants to stay on Slayers, and hence he's accepting those stipulations imposed on him. This is in no way career ending. Boxer already states explicitly that he still has a future ahead of him, nobody just knows when yet.
illsick
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1770 Posts
November 15 2011 07:33 GMT
#835
harsh punishment for coca :/

coca didn't benefit from taking the loss
you live and you learn
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
November 15 2011 07:34 GMT
#836
On November 15 2011 16:31 ZorBa.G wrote:
I'd also like to add, this situation disgusts me. People work too hard to help SC2 e-sports grow. Players with this kind of behaviour is just like throwing all the hard work people have done back in their face. If it were up to me, I would ban Coca and Byun from attending ANY major tournament for the next six months. Somehow, I still feel this isn't enough punishment.

Whats to stop these players from pulling out these antics again.

I'd like to think earning the scorn of one of the most respected figures in eSports would be enough to stop this in the future, at least from CoCa.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
ProxyKnoxy
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2576 Posts
November 15 2011 07:34 GMT
#837
Anyone remember IEM Stephano vs Brat_OK...? no...?
"Zealot try give mariners high five. Mariners not like high five and try hide and shoot zealot"
Sephyr
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia665 Posts
November 15 2011 07:34 GMT
#838
On November 15 2011 16:30 Diamond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 16:29 SniXSniPe wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:24 ZorBa.G wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:23 Fubi wrote:
On November 15 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote:
Diamond being so nice just giving Coca and Byun what amounts to a slap on the wrist. It's already mid November. A ban until Jan 1st is basically only a few more weeklies. GSL November is the last code S for the year so Coca and Byun may not lose anything from this at all.

Err, being dropped out of Code S and having to requalify all the way from Code B, plus the fact that he got kicked out from the teamhouse = less opportunities to practice with good players is pretty big for me. And also they have yet to determine when they can play again, it could be longer than a few months for all we know


Good, it's a well deserved punishment. If he wants to be an idiot he shall get what he deserves.


Yeah, because sacrificing several thousands of dollars + a team house + a hurt reputation isn't a bit excessive for 17 year old kid who wasn't even committing that terrible of a deed. All he did was join a tournament to practice, and gave up one game to his friend. I don't see any written rule being broken anywhere--- it's not like this didn't happen at MLG for WhiteRa, or DeMusliM for the EGWC right?

For gods sake, you people acted like he was one of the BW players aiming to extort the system and make thousands of dollars in an UNLAWFUL manner.


From the Korean Weekly player handbook that is sent to every team, is 9 pages, and has both a English and fully translated Korean copy:

Show nested quote +
"3: No cheating. This includes but is not limited to, hacks, third-party programs, minimap enlargement tools, automated scripts, “macro keys”. This also includes people messaging you in game, or account sharing/playing under an ID you did not register for. Any cheating of any kind will be dealt with harshly and we will also forward the incident to both GOM TV and the Korean Players Association, along with other notable Non-Korean tournament organizers (Teamliquid, NASL, MLG, etc). We take this VERY seriously. Not every type of cheating is covered here, but if there is a new method of cheating we don’t cover currently, it still counts. Do not test this rule. Note that violation of this rule is an automatic forfeiture of your prize money you earned in the event that the violation occurred in."


He gave himself an extra game to practice and the crowd an extra game to watch. You yourself gained some extra revenue out of it. Was there anyone who actually did not benefit from this?
_Depression
Profile Joined October 2011
United States251 Posts
November 15 2011 07:34 GMT
#839
On November 15 2011 16:33 illsick wrote:
harsh punishment for coca :/

coca didn't benefit from taking the loss


Actually, according to recent revelations from the chat log, he "benefited" by being able to play another game vs Terran, something he was apparently trying to do because his next GSL group had 3 Terran players in it.
askTeivospy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1525 Posts
November 15 2011 07:35 GMT
#840
good response by slayers team imo
hihihi
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