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On November 10 2011 16:53 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 16:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On November 10 2011 02:42 Brotocol wrote:On November 10 2011 02:28 teddyoojo wrote:
ye im really looking forward to play terran even more now Poor you, EMP has the same radius as storm. qq Yes because Terran and Protoss are the same race. Well at least Terran can just move out of the storm to take less damage, and not like Protoss isn't able to avoid EMP right?
BALANCE DISCUSSION
Strawmans EVERYWHERE
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Hmm, reduction in upgrade price might make for a slightly better timing push or two? (like some crazy critical timing to get +1 before siege, idk). Doubt it matters much.
Thank goodness for EMP radius nerf. I feel like its fair considering the reduction in ghost price (gas for minerals) in an earlier patch.
Blah, if the toss deathball is so imba, just don't engage it directly. I feel like heavy late-game drop play would be pretty effective to keep the deathball away-- I don't see many toss producing much air lategame, and we're slow as hell. Then again, that just might end with mass air transition trolololol.
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Just dropped by to inform I got demoted to diamond after losing 8 zvps in a row. Im not blaming the patch but the protoss players seemed amazingly better than the ones I faced last week.
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New patch has been great! Don't see many Terrans favoring early ghosts anymore :D Although it's not really a huge difference for the weapons and armor upgrades but I would say the Shield upgrade reduction is awesome.
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On November 10 2011 18:40 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Just dropped by to inform I got demoted to diamond after losing 8 zvps in a row. Im not blaming the patch but the protoss players seemed amazingly better than the ones I faced last week.
That sounds a bit brutal lol
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On November 10 2011 18:40 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Just dropped by to inform I got demoted to diamond after losing 8 zvps in a row. Im not blaming the patch but the protoss players seemed amazingly better than the ones I faced last week.
Auch! That is rough! But you're not alone on that...The last sample of 25 games of mine (SC2Gears) gave me a whopping 33 % win rate in zvp 
Then again I have always been horrible in that match up no matter how hard I bust my ass of vs toss in practice... ;>
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well i cant see the point of that patch - as if protoss would reward less from their upgrades which could be the justifying factor here. but they reward more from their upgrades, because their units are supposed to be the strongest in the game. these strongest units upgraded, with chronoboosted upgrades - its just ridicolous.
why the hell does noone on the whole TL site see that toss players have the easy ways to their pleasure, but the other races are not allowed to make any misreading in the game or even mistake of any kind.
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On November 10 2011 17:51 ticklishmusic wrote:
Hmm, reduction in upgrade price might make for a slightly better timing push or two? (like some crazy critical timing to get +1 before siege, idk). Doubt it matters much.
Thank goodness for EMP radius nerf. I feel like its fair considering the reduction in ghost price (gas for minerals) in an earlier patch.
Blah, if the toss deathball is so imba, just don't engage it directly. I feel like heavy late-game drop play would be pretty effective to keep the deathball away-- I don't see many toss producing much air lategame, and we're slow as hell. Then again, that just might end with mass air transition trolololol.
okok, "if the deathball is so imba, just dont engage it directly" <- THIS CANNOT BE THE CASE IN A BALANCED GAME!!! i see u never played other RTS than sc.... otherwise u would know, that a balanced RTS gives every party the option to fight their enemys heads up.
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^Did you ever miss a forcefield by a split second against a move marauder? Did you ever try to read a terran? yeah..
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On November 10 2011 09:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 09:14 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 09:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 09:03 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:27 Scufo wrote:
[quote]
Late game Terran OP...am I dreaming? Protoss armies ROLL Terran bio with no micro (except Stim) on either side. Chargelots and Colossus absolutely manhandle Marines and Marauders.
There's a reason Terran tends to be the aggressor in the early and mid game...if you don't hurt a toss you're in for an uphill battle in the lategame... I think I found your problems. You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball. You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out. If you think casting ff's or storms is hard micro.... Idk what to say. Spellcasting is probably the easiest micro in the game. And I never see ANY protoss use blink at all vs. terran lmao, so you can just rule that one out completely. Go to darglein's micro trainer and choose the terran one "death ball" or whatever it's called and see for yourself how much harder it is. The reason you think that spellcasting is easy is because the one spell you cast against Protoss is done instantaneously. And you're probably cloaked at the time. I find it hilarious that you think anybody can cast forcefields like MC. Try it some time. And try throwing down perfect storms on moving targets too. Let me know how it goes. I've played protoss before and I know for a fact that you're exaggerating. You really think it's hard to put a storm behind a clump of units? Really? Or make a line of force fields? Look, I realized I hit a nerve when I called your race easier to micro, and you have to "defend your honor" now, but there's a reason terran is the least played race now. You would think with all the terrans doing well in code S, people would want to play the race because people are obviously having success with it. People that think terran is stim + amove are just the whiny protoss kids that don't realize that only at the tip top level is terran actually good. Again, you saying that a spell is easy and you doing it easily are two different things. And again, actually throwing down all the forcefields and storms (wait, how do our spellcasters have any energy? is Terran doing something wrong?) as opposed to throwing down EMPs are much harder and take much more time. You haven't given a single example defending any of your ridiculous claims, whereas plenty of people disagreeing with you have easily refuted your arguments. Maybe once you learn how to play the game, you'll stop whining about your race- which is just silly, considering it's been statistically better at the pro-level than the other two for nearly the entire existence of SC2. But yes, cling on to the fact that Terran isn't played as frequently in the gold league, despite the fact that we've already proven Protoss macro is just as hard (if not harder) and the micro is at least just as demanding. Terran is simply not mechanically overwhelming, compared to Protoss. Maybe people aren't playing Terran because they don't find it as interesting. Maybe it doesn't suit their playstyle. It may have nothing to do with difficulty. Or maybe they just don't know about the 1-1-1, ghosts, and the fact that you can go all-in with your workers three time a game. Surely even a gold level player can do those things. Anyways, I'm going to take a break from this thread. It was fun.
Oh God. Where can I start? So you are saying that there are WAY less T on ladder because it doesn't suit their playstyle. Really? Reallly? If by playstyle you mean that it doesn't suit them playing a MORE mechanical demanding race then I agree with you.
You also say that it has been PROVEN that the P macro is just as hard (if not harder) then T macro and the micro is at least just as demanding. I'd love to hear how that was PROVEN seriously.
I also don't get why some P players have to defend this thesis that P is just as mechanical demanding as T. In BW, it was pretty much accepted that T was more mechanical demanding than P and people wouldn't feel like they have to deny this.
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bout time... i wanted that portrait just to show off.... but i'll probably end up keeping my Murloc Marine from last year... feels way cooler
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On November 10 2011 20:46 sontyp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 17:51 ticklishmusic wrote:
Hmm, reduction in upgrade price might make for a slightly better timing push or two? (like some crazy critical timing to get +1 before siege, idk). Doubt it matters much.
Thank goodness for EMP radius nerf. I feel like its fair considering the reduction in ghost price (gas for minerals) in an earlier patch.
Blah, if the toss deathball is so imba, just don't engage it directly. I feel like heavy late-game drop play would be pretty effective to keep the deathball away-- I don't see many toss producing much air lategame, and we're slow as hell. Then again, that just might end with mass air transition trolololol. okok, "if the deathball is so imba, just dont engage it directly" <- THIS CANNOT BE THE CASE IN A BALANCED GAME!!! i see u never played other RTS than sc.... otherwise u would know, that a balanced RTS gives every party the option to fight their enemys heads up.
What. Why? Is this some divine proclamation I haven't heard about?
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On November 10 2011 20:42 sontyp wrote:
well i cant see the point of that patch - as if protoss would reward less from their upgrades which could be the justifying factor here. but they reward more from their upgrades, because their units are supposed to be the strongest in the game. these strongest units upgraded, with chronoboosted upgrades - its just ridicolous.
why the hell does noone on the whole TL site see that toss players have the easy ways to their pleasure, but the other races are not allowed to make any misreading in the game or even mistake of any kind.
Do you know that Protoss units are not cost efficient?
that's why keeping them together makes them strong, because splitted they will fall for sure !
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On November 10 2011 20:48 petro1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 09:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 09:14 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 09:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 09:03 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:On November 10 2011 07:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
I think I found your problems.
You're supposed to micro your units. And make ghosts and vikings instead of just tier one units against an entire Protoss deathball.
You're welcome. My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out. If you think casting ff's or storms is hard micro.... Idk what to say. Spellcasting is probably the easiest micro in the game. And I never see ANY protoss use blink at all vs. terran lmao, so you can just rule that one out completely. Go to darglein's micro trainer and choose the terran one "death ball" or whatever it's called and see for yourself how much harder it is. The reason you think that spellcasting is easy is because the one spell you cast against Protoss is done instantaneously. And you're probably cloaked at the time. I find it hilarious that you think anybody can cast forcefields like MC. Try it some time. And try throwing down perfect storms on moving targets too. Let me know how it goes. I've played protoss before and I know for a fact that you're exaggerating. You really think it's hard to put a storm behind a clump of units? Really? Or make a line of force fields? Look, I realized I hit a nerve when I called your race easier to micro, and you have to "defend your honor" now, but there's a reason terran is the least played race now. You would think with all the terrans doing well in code S, people would want to play the race because people are obviously having success with it. People that think terran is stim + amove are just the whiny protoss kids that don't realize that only at the tip top level is terran actually good. Again, you saying that a spell is easy and you doing it easily are two different things. And again, actually throwing down all the forcefields and storms (wait, how do our spellcasters have any energy? is Terran doing something wrong?) as opposed to throwing down EMPs are much harder and take much more time. You haven't given a single example defending any of your ridiculous claims, whereas plenty of people disagreeing with you have easily refuted your arguments. Maybe once you learn how to play the game, you'll stop whining about your race- which is just silly, considering it's been statistically better at the pro-level than the other two for nearly the entire existence of SC2. But yes, cling on to the fact that Terran isn't played as frequently in the gold league, despite the fact that we've already proven Protoss macro is just as hard (if not harder) and the micro is at least just as demanding. Terran is simply not mechanically overwhelming, compared to Protoss. Maybe people aren't playing Terran because they don't find it as interesting. Maybe it doesn't suit their playstyle. It may have nothing to do with difficulty. Or maybe they just don't know about the 1-1-1, ghosts, and the fact that you can go all-in with your workers three time a game. Surely even a gold level player can do those things. Anyways, I'm going to take a break from this thread. It was fun. Oh God. Where can I start? So you are saying that there are WAY less T on ladder because it doesn't suit their playstyle. Really? Reallly? If by playstyle you mean that it doesn't suit them playing a MORE mechanical demanding race then I agree with you. You also say that it has been PROVEN that the P macro is just as hard (if not harder) then T macro and the micro is at least just as demanding. I'd love to hear how that was PROVEN seriously. I also don't get why some P players have to defend this thesis that P is just as mechanical demanding as T. In BW, it was pretty much accepted that T was more mechanical demanding than P and people wouldn't feel like they have to deny this.
I choose P, because the units looks cooler, DT's are badass etc, and I love the P lore. I don't give a shit to how the race is played. maybe there is more people like me, and maybe that is why there is more P in the game than T
yeah, bronze league is full of T, but that can be explained by the campaign.
PS: "I also don't get why some P players have to defend this thesis that P is just as mechanical demanding as T. In BW, it was pretty much accepted that T was more mechanical demanding than P and people wouldn't feel like they have to deny this." the same can be said about terrans and zergs, If I say P is more demanding than T, will you leave it be?
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On November 10 2011 20:42 sontyp wrote:
well i cant see the point of that patch - as if protoss would reward less from their upgrades which could be the justifying factor here. but they reward more from their upgrades, because their units are supposed to be the strongest in the game. these strongest units upgraded, with chronoboosted upgrades - its just ridicolous.
why the hell does noone on the whole TL site see that toss players have the easy ways to their pleasure, but the other races are not allowed to make any misreading in the game or even mistake of any kind.
Because it's as wrong as it gets. I sure hope you play Terran, because only a Terran can be so blatantly ignorant about T being the most forgiving race in most aspects of this game. And since this is a discussion for another time, I'm gonna leave it at that.
Personally happy to see shield upgrade reduced and EMP nerfed, really undecided about the weapon/armor-upgrades tho, they seemed kinda unecessary to me but guess it's time to wait and see how it pans out.
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On November 10 2011 20:55 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 20:48 petro1987 wrote:On November 10 2011 09:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 09:14 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 09:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 09:03 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 07:39 Scufo wrote:
[quote]
My point was, Protoss armies do much better than Terran ones with less-than-superb micro. It's a real problem for Plat-Diamond level players. There's a reason why Terran is the least played race there. Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S. Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out. If you think casting ff's or storms is hard micro.... Idk what to say. Spellcasting is probably the easiest micro in the game. And I never see ANY protoss use blink at all vs. terran lmao, so you can just rule that one out completely. Go to darglein's micro trainer and choose the terran one "death ball" or whatever it's called and see for yourself how much harder it is. The reason you think that spellcasting is easy is because the one spell you cast against Protoss is done instantaneously. And you're probably cloaked at the time. I find it hilarious that you think anybody can cast forcefields like MC. Try it some time. And try throwing down perfect storms on moving targets too. Let me know how it goes. I've played protoss before and I know for a fact that you're exaggerating. You really think it's hard to put a storm behind a clump of units? Really? Or make a line of force fields? Look, I realized I hit a nerve when I called your race easier to micro, and you have to "defend your honor" now, but there's a reason terran is the least played race now. You would think with all the terrans doing well in code S, people would want to play the race because people are obviously having success with it. People that think terran is stim + amove are just the whiny protoss kids that don't realize that only at the tip top level is terran actually good. Again, you saying that a spell is easy and you doing it easily are two different things. And again, actually throwing down all the forcefields and storms (wait, how do our spellcasters have any energy? is Terran doing something wrong?) as opposed to throwing down EMPs are much harder and take much more time. You haven't given a single example defending any of your ridiculous claims, whereas plenty of people disagreeing with you have easily refuted your arguments. Maybe once you learn how to play the game, you'll stop whining about your race- which is just silly, considering it's been statistically better at the pro-level than the other two for nearly the entire existence of SC2. But yes, cling on to the fact that Terran isn't played as frequently in the gold league, despite the fact that we've already proven Protoss macro is just as hard (if not harder) and the micro is at least just as demanding. Terran is simply not mechanically overwhelming, compared to Protoss. Maybe people aren't playing Terran because they don't find it as interesting. Maybe it doesn't suit their playstyle. It may have nothing to do with difficulty. Or maybe they just don't know about the 1-1-1, ghosts, and the fact that you can go all-in with your workers three time a game. Surely even a gold level player can do those things. Anyways, I'm going to take a break from this thread. It was fun. Oh God. Where can I start? So you are saying that there are WAY less T on ladder because it doesn't suit their playstyle. Really? Reallly? If by playstyle you mean that it doesn't suit them playing a MORE mechanical demanding race then I agree with you. You also say that it has been PROVEN that the P macro is just as hard (if not harder) then T macro and the micro is at least just as demanding. I'd love to hear how that was PROVEN seriously. I also don't get why some P players have to defend this thesis that P is just as mechanical demanding as T. In BW, it was pretty much accepted that T was more mechanical demanding than P and people wouldn't feel like they have to deny this. I choose P, because the units looks cooler, DT's are badass etc, and I love the P lore. I don't give a shit to how the race is played. maybe there is more people like me, and maybe that is why there is more P in the game than T yeah, bronze league is full of T, but that can be explained by the campaign
I get what you're saying. But you also gotta realize that we are talking about a population here. The same way you think DT's are badass someone else may think that Ghosts are badass and the T lore is fun. In the whole population though, It would be likely that these numbers even out.
There's another point. Most people beyond plat (especially diamond-masters) don't really keep playing a race because the lore is fun or because a unit is badass. They like to win. And P being the race that is less mechanical demanding, it just suits them better.
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On November 10 2011 20:46 sontyp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 17:51 ticklishmusic wrote:
Hmm, reduction in upgrade price might make for a slightly better timing push or two? (like some crazy critical timing to get +1 before siege, idk). Doubt it matters much.
Thank goodness for EMP radius nerf. I feel like its fair considering the reduction in ghost price (gas for minerals) in an earlier patch.
Blah, if the toss deathball is so imba, just don't engage it directly. I feel like heavy late-game drop play would be pretty effective to keep the deathball away-- I don't see many toss producing much air lategame, and we're slow as hell. Then again, that just might end with mass air transition trolololol. okok, "if the deathball is so imba, just dont engage it directly" <- THIS CANNOT BE THE CASE IN A BALANCED GAME!!! i see u never played other RTS than sc.... otherwise u would know, that a balanced RTS gives every party the option to fight their enemys heads up.
well, this game is imbalanced, but in a way that actually makes it balanced...let me explain:
Terran can afford to be overagrassive early on but no other race can really be so agressive early aganist terra, because he has the best defencive mechanics early game, actually they can all-in (with a non-all-in method) almost 3 times before actually lose. So you could say that in this way terran is imba.
Zerg has other machanics that makes them imba...like passiviness of other races makes Zerg players DRONE like crazy, and analizing by this way, no other race is so imba as Zerg.
Protoss has developed a pretty good composition late game, with a lot of different units bind together to make them strong. Chargelot, stalker, HT, Colossus, Immortal when protoss can achieve this composition no other enemy composition can face it directly (so thinking by this way, protoss is completely imbalanced late game). But in other hand it becames pretty slow and vunerable aganist multiple attacks.
Exploring each race weakness is the key to leave it balanced.
But using pro-level to balance the game is the key too, omg, there's so many terrans in GSL, most of them does not deserve to be code S.
sigh...
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On November 10 2011 21:01 petro1987 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 20:55 rpgalon wrote:On November 10 2011 20:48 petro1987 wrote:On November 10 2011 09:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 09:14 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 09:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 09:03 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 08:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 10 2011 08:51 IlIlIlIl wrote:On November 10 2011 07:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Oh, I thought it was because all the Terrans had already moved up into Code S.
Just kidding, but I feel that the necessary micro for both races is about even, and when Protoss don't hit forcefields or storms, they lose the game just as often as when Terrans don't split their units or cast EMPs. I think it averages out pretty well. No, the micro is NOT even. Terran has to micro way more, I thought that was common knowledge? Think about it, how much micro do you have to do with a zealot? Or with colossus? Point is you can get away with not microing as protoss. Your units are way more beefy and don't die as quick. A-move zealot/archon is brutal to deal with if you don't have perfect micro. NineteenSC2 already mentioned multiple necessary micro-moves for Protoss ("ff, gs, storm, feedback, blink, micro zealots, warp in units in the middle of a battle, spread hts & sentries"), which wasn't even all of them (moving colossi back against vikings, warp prism mechanics, etc.), so for you to suggest that Protoss only uses zealots, colossi, and archons (and therefore we only a-move) is ridiculous. Do you realize that Protoss has far more spells to cast? What does that mean to you?A lot of Protoss micro comes from the spellcasting aspect. A lot of the Terran micro comes from the splitting of the units (and not much else- just ghosts). Believe me, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say that it probably evens out. If you think casting ff's or storms is hard micro.... Idk what to say. Spellcasting is probably the easiest micro in the game. And I never see ANY protoss use blink at all vs. terran lmao, so you can just rule that one out completely. Go to darglein's micro trainer and choose the terran one "death ball" or whatever it's called and see for yourself how much harder it is. The reason you think that spellcasting is easy is because the one spell you cast against Protoss is done instantaneously. And you're probably cloaked at the time. I find it hilarious that you think anybody can cast forcefields like MC. Try it some time. And try throwing down perfect storms on moving targets too. Let me know how it goes. I've played protoss before and I know for a fact that you're exaggerating. You really think it's hard to put a storm behind a clump of units? Really? Or make a line of force fields? Look, I realized I hit a nerve when I called your race easier to micro, and you have to "defend your honor" now, but there's a reason terran is the least played race now. You would think with all the terrans doing well in code S, people would want to play the race because people are obviously having success with it. People that think terran is stim + amove are just the whiny protoss kids that don't realize that only at the tip top level is terran actually good. Again, you saying that a spell is easy and you doing it easily are two different things. And again, actually throwing down all the forcefields and storms (wait, how do our spellcasters have any energy? is Terran doing something wrong?) as opposed to throwing down EMPs are much harder and take much more time. You haven't given a single example defending any of your ridiculous claims, whereas plenty of people disagreeing with you have easily refuted your arguments. Maybe once you learn how to play the game, you'll stop whining about your race- which is just silly, considering it's been statistically better at the pro-level than the other two for nearly the entire existence of SC2. But yes, cling on to the fact that Terran isn't played as frequently in the gold league, despite the fact that we've already proven Protoss macro is just as hard (if not harder) and the micro is at least just as demanding. Terran is simply not mechanically overwhelming, compared to Protoss. Maybe people aren't playing Terran because they don't find it as interesting. Maybe it doesn't suit their playstyle. It may have nothing to do with difficulty. Or maybe they just don't know about the 1-1-1, ghosts, and the fact that you can go all-in with your workers three time a game. Surely even a gold level player can do those things. Anyways, I'm going to take a break from this thread. It was fun. Oh God. Where can I start? So you are saying that there are WAY less T on ladder because it doesn't suit their playstyle. Really? Reallly? If by playstyle you mean that it doesn't suit them playing a MORE mechanical demanding race then I agree with you. You also say that it has been PROVEN that the P macro is just as hard (if not harder) then T macro and the micro is at least just as demanding. I'd love to hear how that was PROVEN seriously. I also don't get why some P players have to defend this thesis that P is just as mechanical demanding as T. In BW, it was pretty much accepted that T was more mechanical demanding than P and people wouldn't feel like they have to deny this. I choose P, because the units looks cooler, DT's are badass etc, and I love the P lore. I don't give a shit to how the race is played. maybe there is more people like me, and maybe that is why there is more P in the game than T yeah, bronze league is full of T, but that can be explained by the campaign I get what you're saying. But you also gotta realize that we are talking about a population here. The same way you think DT's are badass someone else may think that Ghosts are badass and the T lore is fun. In the whole population though, It would be likely that these numbers even out. There's another point. Most people beyond plat (especially diamond-masters) don't really keep playing a race because the lore is fun or because a unit is badass. They like to win. And P being the race that is less mechanical demanding, it just suits them better.
That's not quite true, some decisions like building a observer uppon an immortal can cost the game. Protoss is the only race that cannot make builds without knowing what enemy have, because if he does then he is lost !
I've seen my games and a difference of building a probe or not is HUGE to protoss, but is not big deal to Z or T, protoss has to have a pretty good machanics of playin otherwise he will lose. This is even worse in PvP when a single chrono boost actually cost the game. How terran mechanics can be more difficult when a miss forcefield (of ONE SECOND LATE) makes protoss lose a game?
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
But using pro-level to balance the game is the key too, omg, there's so many terrans in GSL, most of them does not deserve to be code S.
sigh...
That's not true at all. Name me some Code S terrans who don't deserve to be there. The race isn't imbalanced at GSL level, it's just the terran players are so good (which is why they're in Code S) as you can see this season the less good Terrans have dropped down and protoss players are finally picking up their game.
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i keep reading a bit of these kind of threads from time to time, and seriously: why are ppl saying p has the strongest lategame army when in fact it has the worst? :[
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EPT
