|
On November 09 2011 02:56 Honeybadger wrote:
Just keep making that ghost worse and worse. How about they make a tweak so mech doesn't get steamrolled by everything protoss makes? That'd solve the ghost issue.
As usual, changes that REALLY hurt the low level terrans because the high level terrans are apparently the only people that understand the concept of micro.
Do you realize how fucking insane they would have to make mech so that ghosts wouldn't be used?
|
Ghosts were the best unit in the game by far before this patch, and I doubt this changes after the patch. I don't understand how people don't agree with the EMP change. 1 single EMP, which outranges every single protoss unit, could do (and late game pretty much guaranteed to do) 1000 damage and remove force fields, guardian shields and storm energy instantly, and making archons useless. With that much damage and ability to remove AoE threats, coupled with the DPS of MMM, I feel like it's ok to say it at this point since blizzard agrees, that EMP was pretty clear to be overpowered. Hopefully this might bring Protoss vs. Terran to an even playing field, although I still think there is work to be done to reach that.
The upgrade changes sounds like a nice little boost, we'll see how it plays out.
|
On November 09 2011 03:17 ffadicted wrote:
Ghosts were the best unit in the game by far before this patch, and I doubt this changes after the patch. I don't understand how people don't agree with the EMP change. 1 single EMP, which outranges every single protoss unit, could do (and late game pretty much guaranteed to do) 1000 damage and remove force fields, guardian shields and storm energy instantly, and making archons useless. With that much damage and ability to remove AoE threats, coupled with the DPS of MMM, I feel like it's ok to say it at this point since blizzard agrees, that EMP was pretty clear to be overpowered. Hopefully this might bring Protoss vs. Terran to an even playing field, although I still think there is work to be done to reach that.
The upgrade changes sounds like a nice little boost, we'll see how it plays out.
And anyone can say that Protoss has too much AoE (colossi, storm, archon splash) where terrans only AoE against protoss is EMP, and blizzard decided to nerf it. You can say EMP does 1000 damage, but storms can do a lot more and actually kill the units. There's no point in arguing that EMP is overpowered when protoss AoE is capable of just as much and more.
|
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
|
On November 09 2011 02:53 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 02:46 SeaSwift wrote:On November 09 2011 02:40 Roxy wrote:On November 09 2011 02:35 SeaSwift wrote:On November 09 2011 02:34 Lorch wrote:On November 09 2011 02:31 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I hope this hits Korea asap so HuK can benefit when he plays his GSL matches--I assume that by the time it gets to the next round it will be live there, so MC can benefit as well.
It won't, Patch will be live soon on NA (or is it already?) tomorrow on EU and thursday on KR.  (( Sad Zealot is sad. I thought it was determined that this patch would only have a minimal effect on the game though it is better than nothing, I dont suspect that there would be a huge shift in the game resulting from it It is a 44% area decrease on EMP. That's a pretty huge difference for PvT tbh. Yeah now the radius is as small as storm. As artosis said, hopefully all bad terrans who thought they were good because of their race can get some spanking as the terms are evening up in PvT. I still dislike how the ghost is the end all be all in TvP.
Well it's the only Hightech unit Terran can actually build in TvP , although it's not really that hightech....
Prepare to see alot more 1-1-1 kinda builds in GSL games. Be it 1 Base or 2 Base before the Protoss has all his tech. Then the Toss will whine again and there will be more nerfs .... .
|
The patch hit just in time for State of the Game - always my favourite timing!
|
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
|
On November 09 2011 03:25 SolidMoose wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 03:17 ffadicted wrote:
Ghosts were the best unit in the game by far before this patch, and I doubt this changes after the patch. I don't understand how people don't agree with the EMP change. 1 single EMP, which outranges every single protoss unit, could do (and late game pretty much guaranteed to do) 1000 damage and remove force fields, guardian shields and storm energy instantly, and making archons useless. With that much damage and ability to remove AoE threats, coupled with the DPS of MMM, I feel like it's ok to say it at this point since blizzard agrees, that EMP was pretty clear to be overpowered. Hopefully this might bring Protoss vs. Terran to an even playing field, although I still think there is work to be done to reach that.
The upgrade changes sounds like a nice little boost, we'll see how it plays out. And anyone can say that Protoss has too much AoE (colossi, storm, archon splash) where terrans only AoE against protoss is EMP, and blizzard decided to nerf it. You can say EMP does 1000 damage, but storms can do a lot more and actually kill the units. There's no point in arguing that EMP is overpowered when protoss AoE is capable of just as much and more.
Dude storm radius got nerfed a long time ago. It was time to nerf the emp whether you disagree or not.
|
The difference is if you get storms off on the whole terran army you win the game.
In lategame if you dont EMP the entire Protoss army 1-2 times you just lose, end of story.
|
On November 09 2011 03:31 SoKHo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 03:25 SolidMoose wrote:On November 09 2011 03:17 ffadicted wrote:
Ghosts were the best unit in the game by far before this patch, and I doubt this changes after the patch. I don't understand how people don't agree with the EMP change. 1 single EMP, which outranges every single protoss unit, could do (and late game pretty much guaranteed to do) 1000 damage and remove force fields, guardian shields and storm energy instantly, and making archons useless. With that much damage and ability to remove AoE threats, coupled with the DPS of MMM, I feel like it's ok to say it at this point since blizzard agrees, that EMP was pretty clear to be overpowered. Hopefully this might bring Protoss vs. Terran to an even playing field, although I still think there is work to be done to reach that.
The upgrade changes sounds like a nice little boost, we'll see how it plays out. And anyone can say that Protoss has too much AoE (colossi, storm, archon splash) where terrans only AoE against protoss is EMP, and blizzard decided to nerf it. You can say EMP does 1000 damage, but storms can do a lot more and actually kill the units. There's no point in arguing that EMP is overpowered when protoss AoE is capable of just as much and more. Dude storm radius got nerfed a long time ago. It was time to nerf the emp whether you disagree or not.
I would love to see an nerf in AOE-damage in general tbh ....
|
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
|
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
|
On November 09 2011 01:42 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 01:36 superstartran wrote:On November 09 2011 01:26 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. Of course i would , every reasonable Terran player would. Imagine Terran had all your AOE but you had EMP what would happen. You take away ~50% my HP( that will regenerate if you don't engage immidiatly ) then instantly die to my masses of splash damage.... looooool.... If I could instantly remove 50% of your HP I don't even need splash to win fights anymore. Do you understand that if you gave HT a spell that instantly removed 50% HP from the Terran army, had a huge radius, was instant and undodgable, etc. how imbalanced that would be? You'd do nothing but make Gateway/HT and just forge ahead with Chargelots/HT as your Chargelots will kill Marines/Mauraders so fast there is absolutely no need for splash at that point. In fact, if the roles were reversed, you'd probably hear so much Terran bitching moaning and groaning it would be unbelievable. Terran players are the REASON why the game is so severely fucked up in the first place. Complaints about the Void Ray in the early days of the game totally sent this game on a total downward spiral of idiotic balancing decisions. Don't believe me? Look at the patch notes. 1) Void Ray change because Terran players were whining they couldn't open 1-1-1 without dying. Now Void Rays do more damage without charging up and do more damage vs massive. 2) Results in massive PvZ deathball syndrome that was hilariously dumb to watch and play as either side. 3) To counteract deathball syndrome, Blizzard had to turn Infestors into walking death machines with a super Fungal Growth ontop of them that made them so broken, you could make like 15+ Infestors and just wipe out armies over and over again. 4) Waaagh, I can't win vs KA because I don't use ghosts. What happens? Protoss now cannot secure 3rds vs Terran anymore, and has no reasonably efficient way of defending vs Mutas anymore, resulting in huge imbalances across the board. Honestly, the amount of Terran defending is unbelievable in this thread. Terran has the most 1st place finishes out of all the races, has statistically been on top every month except ONE since the release of the game, and has pretty much cemented themselves as by far the best race in the game, and yet people are whining about having to fight on SOMEWHAT equal ground against Protoss. LMAO. Sorry but that is complete non-sense . Do you actually remeber how insane voidrays had been before they had been changed ? And KA combides with Warpgate all over the Map was too good. Instant AOE damage everywhere where power is available yeah that sound reasonable. The crux of Sc2 is not Terran its Warpgate it's a terrible idea and shouldn't be in the game it's what made most of the Protoss MU retarted.
Voidrays were nerfed on the whim of Maka because he was whining he couldn't 1-1-1 expand while being ultra greedy and build minimal amounts of Marines against mass Stalkers, which are really good against unupgraded Marines. Try again. BTW, Void Rays were considered absolutely ABYSMALLY bad outside of timing attacks that were designed to kill a greedy Terran or Zerg player. In real combat, they were absolutely awful compared to the current Void Ray, which doesn't even need to get charged to blast the living shit out of everything.
KA put the match up at 50%, since the removal, Protoss has been bottom of the barrel trash since the removal. Pretty much cannot be argued against, since I have the numbers to prove and support my claim.
Instant AoE damage everywhere that can be easily dodged that comes from a gas heavy unit from a gas heavy race. Both EMP and Fungal are 100x better in most respects than Storm because they are guaranteed to damage spells, unlike Psi Storm which is easy as shit to bait/dodge/etc.
|
On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
"Starcraft doesn't work like that?" It's not all about unit counters obviously but it does play a huge role in the game. He has a point, building tier 2 units to counter tier 3 is a good tradeoff, M/M are tier 1 and can counter tons of units from all races.
|
On November 09 2011 03:50 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 01:42 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 01:36 superstartran wrote:On November 09 2011 01:26 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. Of course i would , every reasonable Terran player would. Imagine Terran had all your AOE but you had EMP what would happen. You take away ~50% my HP( that will regenerate if you don't engage immidiatly ) then instantly die to my masses of splash damage.... looooool.... If I could instantly remove 50% of your HP I don't even need splash to win fights anymore. Do you understand that if you gave HT a spell that instantly removed 50% HP from the Terran army, had a huge radius, was instant and undodgable, etc. how imbalanced that would be? You'd do nothing but make Gateway/HT and just forge ahead with Chargelots/HT as your Chargelots will kill Marines/Mauraders so fast there is absolutely no need for splash at that point. In fact, if the roles were reversed, you'd probably hear so much Terran bitching moaning and groaning it would be unbelievable. Terran players are the REASON why the game is so severely fucked up in the first place. Complaints about the Void Ray in the early days of the game totally sent this game on a total downward spiral of idiotic balancing decisions. Don't believe me? Look at the patch notes. 1) Void Ray change because Terran players were whining they couldn't open 1-1-1 without dying. Now Void Rays do more damage without charging up and do more damage vs massive. 2) Results in massive PvZ deathball syndrome that was hilariously dumb to watch and play as either side. 3) To counteract deathball syndrome, Blizzard had to turn Infestors into walking death machines with a super Fungal Growth ontop of them that made them so broken, you could make like 15+ Infestors and just wipe out armies over and over again. 4) Waaagh, I can't win vs KA because I don't use ghosts. What happens? Protoss now cannot secure 3rds vs Terran anymore, and has no reasonably efficient way of defending vs Mutas anymore, resulting in huge imbalances across the board. Honestly, the amount of Terran defending is unbelievable in this thread. Terran has the most 1st place finishes out of all the races, has statistically been on top every month except ONE since the release of the game, and has pretty much cemented themselves as by far the best race in the game, and yet people are whining about having to fight on SOMEWHAT equal ground against Protoss. LMAO. Sorry but that is complete non-sense . Do you actually remeber how insane voidrays had been before they had been changed ? And KA combides with Warpgate all over the Map was too good. Instant AOE damage everywhere where power is available yeah that sound reasonable. The crux of Sc2 is not Terran its Warpgate it's a terrible idea and shouldn't be in the game it's what made most of the Protoss MU retarted. Voidrays were nerfed on the whim of Maka because he was whining he couldn't 1-1-1 expand while being ultra greedy and build minimal amounts of Marines against mass Stalkers, which are really good against unupgraded Marines. Try again. KA put the match up at 50%, since the removal, Protoss has been bottom of the barrel trash since the removal. Pretty much cannot be argued against, since I have the numbers to prove and support my claim.
When those nerfs were implemented nobody even remotely understood the game, Protoss players werent even using HT before the 30 min mark when they would win 90% of the time because Colossi were considered OP as hell.
So basically you cant prove shit.
|
On November 09 2011 03:55 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that. "Starcraft doesn't work like that?" It's not all about unit counters obviously but it does play a huge role in the game. He has a point, building tier 2 units to counter tier 3 is a good tradeoff, M/M are tier 1 and can counter tons of units from all races.
And they have to since the Terran Tier 3 Units are not all that usefull unless you count Ghosts as Tier 3 .... They get owned by lowtech units even harder then the Tier 3 Units of the other races.
|
The ghost EMP and the energy shield upgrade change are the only significant ones, all the other ones are pretty useless imo.
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Best solution, that Blizzards are really stupid to add to game...
1) Bring back amulets, but bring back cost of the upgrades
2) Add coldown on storm like 10-15 seconds after HT warped
3) If units are created at Gates without warp, they can use abilities instantly after creating. If they're warped, so all abilities and spells will have some coldown after warp.
|
On November 09 2011 03:57 secretary bird wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 03:50 superstartran wrote:On November 09 2011 01:42 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 01:36 superstartran wrote:On November 09 2011 01:26 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. Of course i would , every reasonable Terran player would. Imagine Terran had all your AOE but you had EMP what would happen. You take away ~50% my HP( that will regenerate if you don't engage immidiatly ) then instantly die to my masses of splash damage.... looooool.... If I could instantly remove 50% of your HP I don't even need splash to win fights anymore. Do you understand that if you gave HT a spell that instantly removed 50% HP from the Terran army, had a huge radius, was instant and undodgable, etc. how imbalanced that would be? You'd do nothing but make Gateway/HT and just forge ahead with Chargelots/HT as your Chargelots will kill Marines/Mauraders so fast there is absolutely no need for splash at that point. In fact, if the roles were reversed, you'd probably hear so much Terran bitching moaning and groaning it would be unbelievable. Terran players are the REASON why the game is so severely fucked up in the first place. Complaints about the Void Ray in the early days of the game totally sent this game on a total downward spiral of idiotic balancing decisions. Don't believe me? Look at the patch notes. 1) Void Ray change because Terran players were whining they couldn't open 1-1-1 without dying. Now Void Rays do more damage without charging up and do more damage vs massive. 2) Results in massive PvZ deathball syndrome that was hilariously dumb to watch and play as either side. 3) To counteract deathball syndrome, Blizzard had to turn Infestors into walking death machines with a super Fungal Growth ontop of them that made them so broken, you could make like 15+ Infestors and just wipe out armies over and over again. 4) Waaagh, I can't win vs KA because I don't use ghosts. What happens? Protoss now cannot secure 3rds vs Terran anymore, and has no reasonably efficient way of defending vs Mutas anymore, resulting in huge imbalances across the board. Honestly, the amount of Terran defending is unbelievable in this thread. Terran has the most 1st place finishes out of all the races, has statistically been on top every month except ONE since the release of the game, and has pretty much cemented themselves as by far the best race in the game, and yet people are whining about having to fight on SOMEWHAT equal ground against Protoss. LMAO. Sorry but that is complete non-sense . Do you actually remeber how insane voidrays had been before they had been changed ? And KA combides with Warpgate all over the Map was too good. Instant AOE damage everywhere where power is available yeah that sound reasonable. The crux of Sc2 is not Terran its Warpgate it's a terrible idea and shouldn't be in the game it's what made most of the Protoss MU retarted. Voidrays were nerfed on the whim of Maka because he was whining he couldn't 1-1-1 expand while being ultra greedy and build minimal amounts of Marines against mass Stalkers, which are really good against unupgraded Marines. Try again. KA put the match up at 50%, since the removal, Protoss has been bottom of the barrel trash since the removal. Pretty much cannot be argued against, since I have the numbers to prove and support my claim. When those nerfs were implemented nobody even remotely understood the game, Protoss players werent even using HT before the 30 min mark when they would win 90% of the time because Colossi were considered OP as hell. So basically you cant prove shit.
HTs were utilized heavily in the 2 months before the removal of KA. That is seen in the increased win percentage of Protoss against Terran, specifically when you look at Korean games where HT usage increased heavily, which resulted in a huge shift in the match-up that suddenly became Protoss favored for once in the past 6 months.
Even if we go by your terrible and wrong logic, that just shows that Blizzard is stupid for removing KA because no one understood the game, and thus how can they justify the removal of an ENTIRE ability when it hasn't even shown to be overpowered (which it never was in the first place).
Don't try and argue, you'll just simply lose.
|
On November 09 2011 03:55 Firesilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon
Terran has:
- ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts. You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost. People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first. A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee. How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran? Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense. Ghosts are not that omnipotent .... Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!! Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders. Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that. "Starcraft doesn't work like that?" It's not all about unit counters obviously but it does play a huge role in the game. He has a point, building tier 2 units to counter tier 3 is a good tradeoff, M/M are tier 1 and can counter tons of units from all races.
Do you usually build tier 3 units to counter other tier 3 units? Would that even make more sense?
No starcraft doesnt work like that. And tier 1 units are used all game in large numbers by all races.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
