On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.
A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely
Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.
A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
"Starcraft doesn't work like that?" It's not all about unit counters obviously but it does play a huge role in the game. He has a point, building tier 2 units to counter tier 3 is a good tradeoff, M/M are tier 1 and can counter tons of units from all races.
Do you usually build tier 3 units to counter other tier 3 units? Would that even make more sense? No starcraft doesnt work like that. And tier 1 units are used all game in large numbers by all races.
Still Thors and BC's are countered easier then for example Colossi or Broodlords maybe even Ultras. Carrier well thats another story those aren't all that great either and thatswhy they'll be removed just like the Thor(kinda)
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
Of course i would , every reasonable Terran player would. Imagine Terran had all your AOE but you had EMP what would happen. You take away ~50% my HP( that will regenerate if you don't engage immidiatly ) then instantly die to my masses of splash damage....
looooool....
If I could instantly remove 50% of your HP I don't even need splash to win fights anymore. Do you understand that if you gave HT a spell that instantly removed 50% HP from the Terran army, had a huge radius, was instant and undodgable, etc. how imbalanced that would be? You'd do nothing but make Gateway/HT and just forge ahead with Chargelots/HT as your Chargelots will kill Marines/Mauraders so fast there is absolutely no need for splash at that point.
In fact, if the roles were reversed, you'd probably hear so much Terran bitching moaning and groaning it would be unbelievable. Terran players are the REASON why the game is so severely fucked up in the first place. Complaints about the Void Ray in the early days of the game totally sent this game on a total downward spiral of idiotic balancing decisions. Don't believe me? Look at the patch notes.
1) Void Ray change because Terran players were whining they couldn't open 1-1-1 without dying. Now Void Rays do more damage without charging up and do more damage vs massive.
2) Results in massive PvZ deathball syndrome that was hilariously dumb to watch and play as either side.
3) To counteract deathball syndrome, Blizzard had to turn Infestors into walking death machines with a super Fungal Growth ontop of them that made them so broken, you could make like 15+ Infestors and just wipe out armies over and over again.
4) Waaagh, I can't win vs KA because I don't use ghosts. What happens? Protoss now cannot secure 3rds vs Terran anymore, and has no reasonably efficient way of defending vs Mutas anymore, resulting in huge imbalances across the board.
Honestly, the amount of Terran defending is unbelievable in this thread. Terran has the most 1st place finishes out of all the races, has statistically been on top every month except ONE since the release of the game, and has pretty much cemented themselves as by far the best race in the game, and yet people are whining about having to fight on SOMEWHAT equal ground against Protoss. LMAO.
Sorry but that is complete non-sense . Do you actually remeber how insane voidrays had been before they had been changed ? And KA combides with Warpgate all over the Map was too good. Instant AOE damage everywhere where power is available yeah that sound reasonable.
The crux of Sc2 is not Terran its Warpgate it's a terrible idea and shouldn't be in the game it's what made most of the Protoss MU retarted.
Voidrays were nerfed on the whim of Maka because he was whining he couldn't 1-1-1 expand while being ultra greedy and build minimal amounts of Marines against mass Stalkers, which are really good against unupgraded Marines. Try again.
KA put the match up at 50%, since the removal, Protoss has been bottom of the barrel trash since the removal. Pretty much cannot be argued against, since I have the numbers to prove and support my claim.
When those nerfs were implemented nobody even remotely understood the game, Protoss players werent even using HT before the 30 min mark when they would win 90% of the time because Colossi were considered OP as hell.
So basically you cant prove shit.
HTs were utilized heavily in the 2 months before the removal of KA. That is seen in the increased win percentage of Protoss against Terran, specifically when you look at Korean games where HT usage increased heavily, which resulted in a huge shift in the match-up that suddenly became Protoss favored for once in the past 6 months.
Even if we go by your terrible and wrong logic, that just shows that Blizzard is stupid for removing KA because no one understood the game, and thus how can they justify the removal of an ENTIRE ability when it hasn't even shown to be overpowered (which it never was in the first place).
Don't try and argue, you'll just simply lose.
Dont tell I will lose because I already know I'm right and I dont care if you agree or not.
So when Protoss players started using them the matchup became Protoss favored even though only a small amount of games even got to the stage where KA was a problem. And you think that somehow proves your point?
And yes a ton of nerfs came during that time without any real proof but that doesnt mean they dont make sense and KA isnt special in that regard.
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.
A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
Instead of just saying that every point he has is "bull!$@" you could actually create an argument with some solid points of your own. If you think something sucks, please explain why in detail, otherwise, you won't be taken seriously.
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.
A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely
Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...
None of that has anything to do with what he said about tiers or that he was raging at someone who just said that making ghosts instead of vikings against colossi doesnt work out.
If thats your opinion fine I wont argue with you but I dont see how I was unfair to him.
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.
A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
Instead of just saying that every point he has is "bull!$@" you could actually create an argument with some solid points of your own. If you think something sucks, please explain why in detail, otherwise, you won't be taken seriously.
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.
A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely
Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...
This way protoss would win everytime because feedback is a clicable cast, and EMP is not, feedback would always strike fiirst because it's instantaneous and EMP has a small cast time !
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.
A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely
Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...
This way protoss would win everytime because feedback is a clicable cast, and EMP is not, feedback would always strike fiirst because it's instantaneous and EMP has a small cast time !
EMP and Snipe both outrange feedback, actually. If both units are perfectly controlled, the ghost will win 100% of the time.
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.
A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
Instead of just saying that every point he has is "bull!$@" you could actually create an argument with some solid points of your own. If you think something sucks, please explain why in detail, otherwise, you won't be taken seriously.
He was basically raging at someone who just stated the obvious I dont see why I have to explain that. Terran doesnt have tier 3 units against the other races you cant just decide to start building BCs or Thors at some point and expect to win. And even if you did the other player could counter it with lower tier units.
Its normal to counter tier 3 units with tier 1/2 units, just think about the matchups and you will realize that.
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote: I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has: - HT - Collossus - Archon
Terran has: - ghosts
Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.
You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.
People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.
A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.
How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?
Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.
Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....
Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!
Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.
Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.
He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely
Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...
This way protoss would win everytime because feedback is a clicable cast, and EMP is not, feedback would always strike fiirst because it's instantaneous and EMP has a small cast time !
EMP and Snipe both outrange feedback, actually. If both units are perfectly controlled, the ghost will win 100% of the time.
Clearly you did not read the thread !! tnx for your amazing and not known comment !
On November 09 2011 04:09 Zidane wrote: Honestly, if Terrans wanna keep QQing about the radius nerf. I'd rather take an HT movement speed and acceleration speed buff over this.
Why not have both? I say buff the shit out of Protoss and give Terran a couple months to adapt. It'd be nice if you had a unit that was more microable in PvT. PvZ you can micro blink stalkers, but theres really not that much to do in PvT, which is the root of all the prolems with protoss: Buff deathball would mean everyone plays Protoss on Ladder,
On November 09 2011 04:09 Zidane wrote: Honestly, if Terrans wanna keep QQing about the radius nerf. I'd rather take an HT movement speed and acceleration speed buff over this.
Why not have both? I say buff the shit out of Protoss and give Terran a couple months to adapt. It'd be nice if you had a unit that was more microable in PvT. PvZ you can micro blink stalkers, but theres really not that much to do in PvT, which is the root of all the prolems with protoss: Buff deathball would mean everyone plays Protoss on Ladder,
Sounds good actually.
Having Faster HTs will actually give you a chance to run in a storm or feedback a ghost without them plastering you with snipe or emp and thinking that actually requires skill.
On November 09 2011 04:09 Zidane wrote: Honestly, if Terrans wanna keep QQing about the radius nerf. I'd rather take an HT movement speed and acceleration speed buff over this.
Why not have both? I say buff the shit out of Protoss and give Terran a couple months to adapt. It'd be nice if you had a unit that was more microable in PvT. PvZ you can micro blink stalkers, but theres really not that much to do in PvT, which is the root of all the prolems with protoss: Buff deathball would mean everyone plays Protoss on Ladder,
Sounds good actually.
Having Faster HTs will actually give you a chance to run in a storm or feedback a ghost without them plastering you with snipe or emp and thinking that actually requires skill.
i don't know, it seens to became much more powerful...i'm protoss too but i don't agree with this buff...HT would became way too strong in PvZ and even more strong in mineral line hairess !
EPT
