• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:15
CEST 06:15
KST 13:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202552RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams9Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 661 users

1.4.2 Patch Live - Page 33

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 58 Next
Necro)Phagist(
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada6644 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-08 19:08:41
November 08 2011 19:02 GMT
#641
On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.

A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.


How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?


Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.

Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....


Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!

Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.


Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.

He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely

Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...
"Are you talking to me? Because your authority is not recognized in fort kick ass!"" ||Park Jung Suk|| |MC|HerO|HyuN|
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
November 08 2011 19:06 GMT
#642
On November 09 2011 04:02 secretary bird wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 03:55 Firesilver wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.

A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.


How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?


Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.

Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....


Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!

Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.


Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.



"Starcraft doesn't work like that?" It's not all about unit counters obviously but it does play a huge role in the game. He has a point, building tier 2 units to counter tier 3 is a good tradeoff, M/M are tier 1 and can counter tons of units from all races.


Do you usually build tier 3 units to counter other tier 3 units? Would that even make more sense?
No starcraft doesnt work like that. And tier 1 units are used all game in large numbers by all races.



Still Thors and BC's are countered easier then for example Colossi or Broodlords maybe even Ultras. Carrier well thats another story those aren't all that great either and thatswhy they'll be removed just like the Thor(kinda)
Zidane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1686 Posts
November 08 2011 19:09 GMT
#643
Honestly, if Terrans wanna keep QQing about the radius nerf. I'd rather take an HT movement speed and acceleration speed buff over this.
secretary bird
Profile Joined September 2011
447 Posts
November 08 2011 19:09 GMT
#644
On November 09 2011 04:01 superstartran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 03:57 secretary bird wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:50 superstartran wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:42 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:36 superstartran wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:26 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


Of course i would , every reasonable Terran player would. Imagine Terran had all your AOE but you had EMP what would happen. You take away ~50% my HP( that will regenerate if you don't engage immidiatly ) then instantly die to my masses of splash damage....




looooool....




If I could instantly remove 50% of your HP I don't even need splash to win fights anymore. Do you understand that if you gave HT a spell that instantly removed 50% HP from the Terran army, had a huge radius, was instant and undodgable, etc. how imbalanced that would be? You'd do nothing but make Gateway/HT and just forge ahead with Chargelots/HT as your Chargelots will kill Marines/Mauraders so fast there is absolutely no need for splash at that point.


In fact, if the roles were reversed, you'd probably hear so much Terran bitching moaning and groaning it would be unbelievable. Terran players are the REASON why the game is so severely fucked up in the first place. Complaints about the Void Ray in the early days of the game totally sent this game on a total downward spiral of idiotic balancing decisions. Don't believe me? Look at the patch notes.


1) Void Ray change because Terran players were whining they couldn't open 1-1-1 without dying. Now Void Rays do more damage without charging up and do more damage vs massive.

2) Results in massive PvZ deathball syndrome that was hilariously dumb to watch and play as either side.

3) To counteract deathball syndrome, Blizzard had to turn Infestors into walking death machines with a super Fungal Growth ontop of them that made them so broken, you could make like 15+ Infestors and just wipe out armies over and over again.

4) Waaagh, I can't win vs KA because I don't use ghosts. What happens? Protoss now cannot secure 3rds vs Terran anymore, and has no reasonably efficient way of defending vs Mutas anymore, resulting in huge imbalances across the board.



Honestly, the amount of Terran defending is unbelievable in this thread. Terran has the most 1st place finishes out of all the races, has statistically been on top every month except ONE since the release of the game, and has pretty much cemented themselves as by far the best race in the game, and yet people are whining about having to fight on SOMEWHAT equal ground against Protoss. LMAO.


Sorry but that is complete non-sense . Do you actually remeber how insane voidrays had been before they had been changed ? And KA combides with Warpgate all over the Map was too good. Instant AOE damage everywhere where power is available yeah that sound reasonable.

The crux of Sc2 is not Terran its Warpgate it's a terrible idea and shouldn't be in the game it's what made most of the Protoss MU retarted.




Voidrays were nerfed on the whim of Maka because he was whining he couldn't 1-1-1 expand while being ultra greedy and build minimal amounts of Marines against mass Stalkers, which are really good against unupgraded Marines. Try again.


KA put the match up at 50%, since the removal, Protoss has been bottom of the barrel trash since the removal. Pretty much cannot be argued against, since I have the numbers to prove and support my claim.


When those nerfs were implemented nobody even remotely understood the game, Protoss players werent even using HT before the 30 min mark when they would win 90% of the time because Colossi were considered OP as hell.

So basically you cant prove shit.




HTs were utilized heavily in the 2 months before the removal of KA. That is seen in the increased win percentage of Protoss against Terran, specifically when you look at Korean games where HT usage increased heavily, which resulted in a huge shift in the match-up that suddenly became Protoss favored for once in the past 6 months.


Even if we go by your terrible and wrong logic, that just shows that Blizzard is stupid for removing KA because no one understood the game, and thus how can they justify the removal of an ENTIRE ability when it hasn't even shown to be overpowered (which it never was in the first place).


Don't try and argue, you'll just simply lose.


Dont tell I will lose because I already know I'm right and I dont care if you agree or not.

So when Protoss players started using them the matchup became Protoss favored even though only
a small amount of games even got to the stage where KA was a problem. And you think that somehow
proves your point?

And yes a ton of nerfs came during that time without any real proof but that doesnt mean they dont make
sense and KA isnt special in that regard.

LeakyBucket
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada76 Posts
November 08 2011 19:10 GMT
#645
On November 09 2011 04:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.

A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.


How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?


Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.

Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....


Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!

Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.


Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.


Instead of just saying that every point he has is "bull!$@" you could actually create an argument with some solid points of your own. If you think something sucks, please explain why in detail, otherwise, you won't be taken seriously.

secretary bird
Profile Joined September 2011
447 Posts
November 08 2011 19:18 GMT
#646
On November 09 2011 04:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.

A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.


How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?


Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.

Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....


Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!

Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.


Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.

He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely

Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...


None of that has anything to do with what he said about tiers or that he was raging at someone who just said that making ghosts instead of vikings against colossi doesnt work out.

If thats your opinion fine I wont argue with you but I dont see how I was unfair to him.
Necro)Phagist(
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada6644 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-08 19:19:43
November 08 2011 19:19 GMT
#647
On November 09 2011 04:10 LeakyBucket wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 04:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.

A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.


How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?


Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.

Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....


Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!

Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.


Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.


Instead of just saying that every point he has is "bull!$@" you could actually create an argument with some solid points of your own. If you think something sucks, please explain why in detail, otherwise, you won't be taken seriously.


Edit nvm im crazy
"Are you talking to me? Because your authority is not recognized in fort kick ass!"" ||Park Jung Suk|| |MC|HerO|HyuN|
HardlyNever
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1258 Posts
November 08 2011 19:23 GMT
#648
Patch is live on NA server now.

Dunno if that was posted already, because I didn't wade through the pages and pages of pointless "balance" arguments.
Out there, the Kid learned to fend for himself. Learned to build. Learned to break.
The_DarkAngelz
Profile Joined April 2010
Brazil221 Posts
November 08 2011 19:26 GMT
#649
On November 09 2011 04:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.

A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.


How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?


Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.

Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....


Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!

Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.


Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.

He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely

Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...


This way protoss would win everytime because feedback is a clicable cast, and EMP is not, feedback would always strike fiirst because it's instantaneous and EMP has a small cast time !
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
November 08 2011 19:28 GMT
#650
On November 09 2011 04:26 The_DarkAngelz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 04:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.

A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.


How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?


Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.

Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....


Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!

Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.


Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.

He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely

Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...


This way protoss would win everytime because feedback is a clicable cast, and EMP is not, feedback would always strike fiirst because it's instantaneous and EMP has a small cast time !

EMP and Snipe both outrange feedback, actually. If both units are perfectly controlled, the ghost will win 100% of the time.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
secretary bird
Profile Joined September 2011
447 Posts
November 08 2011 19:28 GMT
#651
On November 09 2011 04:10 LeakyBucket wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 04:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.

A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.


How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?


Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.

Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....


Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!

Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.


Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.


Instead of just saying that every point he has is "bull!$@" you could actually create an argument with some solid points of your own. If you think something sucks, please explain why in detail, otherwise, you won't be taken seriously.



He was basically raging at someone who just stated the obvious I dont see why I have to explain that.
Terran doesnt have tier 3 units against the other races you cant just decide to start building BCs or
Thors at some point and expect to win. And even if you did the other player could counter it with lower tier units.

Its normal to counter tier 3 units with tier 1/2 units, just think about the matchups and you will realize that.
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
November 08 2011 19:29 GMT
#652
Ooh terran tears. I haven't seen these in a long time. A very long time indeed.
The_DarkAngelz
Profile Joined April 2010
Brazil221 Posts
November 08 2011 19:29 GMT
#653
On November 09 2011 04:28 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 04:26 The_DarkAngelz wrote:
On November 09 2011 04:02 Necro)Phagist( wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:49 secretary bird wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:45 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:31 s3rp wrote:
On November 09 2011 03:26 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:33 HypernovA wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:24 Sphen5117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 01:18 Snowbear wrote:
I would like to know what terran unit can deal splash damage / a huge amount of damage lategame in TVP? Protoss has:
- HT
- Collossus
- Archon

Terran has:
- ghosts

Don't say tanks because they suck in tvp. I would trade the whole ghost for 1 lategame terran unit. It's amazing how everyone seems to forget that terran has no lategame unit besides the ghosts.



You. Missed. The Point. Your GHOSTS HARD COUNTER. EVERYTHING. WE. HAVE. Our HT's? Useless. Colossi/archons? HP GONE. I Would trade all 3 of these "late game units" for something as effective as your ghost.


People really need to stop using the word HARD COUNTER. A Ghost does NOT hard counter all those units. It only hard counters the Templar IF and ONLY IF EMP goes off first.

A hard counter is something like Mutalisk vs Banshee.


How will it ever NOT go off first though? EMP has a longer range, comes from a unit that is faster, as well as can cloak, and your ghost not only starts with enough energy for it, but also doesn't require an upgrade. Also, not only does your spell do more damage than storm, but it is INSTANT, whereas Storm can be moved out of to negate up to half it's damage, if not more. YES. it HARD COUNTERS. Adding ghosts alone to a bio ball makes it trump nearly everything a toss can throw out (how dare you ever have to build a viking off your already-reactored starports). TECHING IS HARD, isn't it, Terran?


Thats total bullcrap every Terran already has to build Vikings when Colossi is out there don't act like because of Ghosts Terrans don't need to build Vikings against Colossi because thats total non-sense.

Ghosts are not that omnipotent ....


Wait, you mean you have to build a tier 2 unit to counter our tier 3 ones? PREPOSTEROUS. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STOP US WITH TIER 1!!

Your vikings are your initial air unit, no tech lab or upgrades needed. And they SHIT on everything in the sky. Heaven forbid you have to have some army composition, or build a unit that doesn't get completely maxed off the 2 upgrades you stacking for your marine/maraders.


Dont be ridiculous its not like what he said wasnt reasonable and 100% true, dont start with the tier bullshit , starcraft doesnt work like that.

He's not really be ridiculous.... obviously exaggerated a bit but completely reasonable. As a terran you have two tech paths that counter everything we can build. If Toss goes collosi/stargate play get vikings and win. Toss goes anything(HT Archons gateay timings immortals etc.) else Ghosts emp = win. And really if you cant blanket a Toss army(No matter how spread) before the toss gets off feedbacks or storms(which you can dodge....) then you deserve to lose that engagement. Personally I don't think this EMP nerf was good enough.... Kepp the radius that size but lower the range to equal storm and feedback makes micro more interesting and fair and imo will balance out the matchup rather nicely

Edit by keep radius that size I mean the original larger splash area radius...


This way protoss would win everytime because feedback is a clicable cast, and EMP is not, feedback would always strike fiirst because it's instantaneous and EMP has a small cast time !

EMP and Snipe both outrange feedback, actually. If both units are perfectly controlled, the ghost will win 100% of the time.


Clearly you did not read the thread !! tnx for your amazing and not known comment !


User was warned for this post
terran0330
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand106 Posts
November 08 2011 19:39 GMT
#654
Psy Starcraft does some in depth overview of the changes of the new patch
Brotoss FTW
Nortac
Profile Joined April 2011
United States375 Posts
November 08 2011 19:41 GMT
#655
I still can't log on to NA, dunno if it's just me or what.
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
November 08 2011 19:42 GMT
#656
On November 09 2011 04:09 Zidane wrote:
Honestly, if Terrans wanna keep QQing about the radius nerf. I'd rather take an HT movement speed and acceleration speed buff over this.

Why not have both? I say buff the shit out of Protoss and give Terran a couple months to adapt. It'd be nice if you had a unit that was more microable in PvT. PvZ you can micro blink stalkers, but theres really not that much to do in PvT, which is the root of all the prolems with protoss: Buff deathball would mean everyone plays Protoss on Ladder,
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
Zidane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1686 Posts
November 08 2011 19:45 GMT
#657
On November 09 2011 04:42 Techno wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 04:09 Zidane wrote:
Honestly, if Terrans wanna keep QQing about the radius nerf. I'd rather take an HT movement speed and acceleration speed buff over this.

Why not have both? I say buff the shit out of Protoss and give Terran a couple months to adapt. It'd be nice if you had a unit that was more microable in PvT. PvZ you can micro blink stalkers, but theres really not that much to do in PvT, which is the root of all the prolems with protoss: Buff deathball would mean everyone plays Protoss on Ladder,


Sounds good actually.

Having Faster HTs will actually give you a chance to run in a storm or feedback a ghost without them plastering you with snipe or emp and thinking that actually requires skill.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-08 19:47:17
November 08 2011 19:46 GMT
#658
The_DarkAngelz
Profile Joined April 2010
Brazil221 Posts
November 08 2011 19:49 GMT
#659
On November 09 2011 04:45 Zidane wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 04:42 Techno wrote:
On November 09 2011 04:09 Zidane wrote:
Honestly, if Terrans wanna keep QQing about the radius nerf. I'd rather take an HT movement speed and acceleration speed buff over this.

Why not have both? I say buff the shit out of Protoss and give Terran a couple months to adapt. It'd be nice if you had a unit that was more microable in PvT. PvZ you can micro blink stalkers, but theres really not that much to do in PvT, which is the root of all the prolems with protoss: Buff deathball would mean everyone plays Protoss on Ladder,


Sounds good actually.

Having Faster HTs will actually give you a chance to run in a storm or feedback a ghost without them plastering you with snipe or emp and thinking that actually requires skill.


i don't know, it seens to became much more powerful...i'm protoss too but i don't agree with this buff...HT would became way too strong in PvZ and even more strong in mineral line hairess !
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
November 08 2011 19:51 GMT
#660
Heres hoping Protoss wins the next couple GSLs so we can go back to the good ol days of Zerg whining.
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
Prev 1 31 32 33 34 35 58 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 249
RuFF_SC2 165
Livibee 79
ProTech53
StarCraft: Brood War
Nal_rA 2160
Zeus 309
Sharp 293
HiyA 134
Sexy 73
NaDa 66
Icarus 9
Britney 0
League of Legends
JimRising 831
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K118
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox530
Other Games
summit1g11685
shahzam936
ViBE235
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 43
Other Games
BasetradeTV14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta39
• practicex 24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo929
• Stunt375
• Rush122
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
6h 45m
Serral vs Cure
Solar vs Classic
OSC
9h 45m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 5h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 9h
CSO Cup
1d 11h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 13h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.