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Athox
Norway64 Posts
On November 02 2011 14:41 Kamais_Ookin wrote: The biggest question that popped up for me was why a important thread like this was never spotlighted. Because it is full of harsh opinions that aren't justified, and "facts" that are unverified. | ||
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LanTAs
United States1091 Posts
On November 02 2011 07:38 Athox wrote: Can the mods please close this thread? It is running out of steam and turning into a monkeys-throwing-shit party. Mods never close threads like this, because almost all the very sensitive discussion topics turn into this, and its very typical of online discussions. ON TOPIC: Why organize a tournament and promise money handouts when you don't fucking have the money at all? I clearly am either missing something or am just stupid and a retard who doesn't understand the structure of how to make a tournament because the way i see it is: 1. Invite People 2. Set up a specific time/place where you guys play 3. If there is prize money, get is ASAP and before tourney starts 4. Have people play and have a good time 5. Pay up the money you promised in less than 7 days How hard can that be? Just don't start a tournament and don't promise money you clearly don't have. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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BahamutIIX
23 Posts
To start, companies and leagues should never be promising money that they don't have. That is an action that will only get you into trouble in the long run. It makes for horrible business, and will only end in failure in the end. It is sad to see that players have to resort to refusing to participate in tournament because they can't follow through on their set out promises to the players in the first place. The thing that I am seeing come up from these players and their involvement with these organizations is the lack of communication from these admins and accounting depts. I don't know if this is already done, but I would think that the leagues would issue a statement to the players at the point when the money has been sent off to their account. Just a basic email that says we have now sent you this much money for your participation in X and to please check your account to make sure it is received. It would give the players an incentive to check into their accounts and make sure things are they way they are supposed to be and also gives both the players and the leagues a "paper" trail to follow. The same idea should also be applied when the league is unable to pay within a reasonable amount of time (2-3 months does sound rather reasonable to me). The league should be expected to issue a statement telling the player what is going on with the money situation and why they have yet to be paid. It is this sad failure in communication on these leagues part that is the cause of this. To see the real stars that makes these leagues as good as they are treated with such a disrespect is disgusting to witness as an observer. A player should never have to refuse to participate in a competition because they fear the possibility of never being paid. I hope with Cloud and other progamers bringing this to the public eye, things will change. | ||
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Divergence
Canada363 Posts
On November 02 2011 06:05 iky43210 wrote: free market has never worked out too well for the people without regulation, fyi We don't need a governing body to solve this problem. We just need the people to rally behind the players. We don't want the equivalent of a KeSPA in SC2. We want SC2 to be a free market, without oppressive governing bodies (except for Blizzard because we love those guys). | ||
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Wafflelisk
Canada1061 Posts
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flyersa
Germany141 Posts
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Divergence
Canada363 Posts
On November 02 2011 17:18 Wafflelisk wrote: We need people who can rally behind the players.. like a governing body for SC2 players. A governing body brings a lot of overhead also. While it may solve this particular problem, it could easily create many more problems down the road. You need only look at KeSPA for an example of this. | ||
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
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Noyect
Sweden129 Posts
On November 02 2011 18:33 Divergence wrote: A governing body brings a lot of overhead also. While it may solve this particular problem, it could easily create many more problems down the road. You need only look at KeSPA for an example of this. While it's true KeSPA went from representing the players to representing the sponsors, many other examples have been shown to work quite well. A few years back the problem for eSports wasn't just tournaments not paying the players, but the players own TEAMS not paying them their saleries nor the price money that the tournaments had paid out to the team. Organisations were then created to help players and teams make standadized contracts, help with legal aid in situations with tournament organizers etc. Other examples would be the whole sale business where you have badges or marks that producers can put on their products to show that they do not use chemicals in their products or fair trade marks for companies who do not use child or slave labour or who replaces their carbon footprint. It's all about what your needs are and to what extense you need to get involved. | ||
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Dexx
Germany175 Posts
I am a German laywer who is into gaming although I don't have time for that anymore. Without knowing the contract you signed before playing for the mentioned companies (this contract could give the EPS a couple of month to pay!), I can support you with a broad guideline for the German EPS, if this EPS is in fact a German company and you contractually did not make any other law applicable: If your contract is nothing special, you should write a "Mahnung" to the EPS: "Hiermit fordere ich Sie auf, den fälligen Geldbetrag in Höhe von xy auf mein angegebenes Konto xy bis spätestens zum xy zur Überweisung bei Ihrer Bank anzuweisen. Sollten Sie dieser Aufforderung nicht nachkommen, werde ich mich anwaltlicher Hilfe bedienen müssen, die Sie zu tragen hätten. Denn Sie befänden sich gemäß § 286 Abs. 1 BGB im Verzug." If they don't do anything, you should go to a laywer. This is no "Rechtsberatung". You will not have any claims, in case I did something wrong. I just wanted to help you out with your next step. In any case go to a laywer. | ||
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RetoX
Hong Kong252 Posts
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GameCreds
France1079 Posts
wonder which tournaments actually pay out properly. Dreamhack? MLG? If any pro players could chip in with experience that would be awesome. We're far from being as big as Dreamhack or other famous LAN TNs, of course, but the online weekly GameCreds Cup ( --> register for next week's edition  )Series always pay Cash Prizes within 2 weeks (I think the max delay was 3 weeks, and because of a PayPal issue).The Tournament is restricted to top players only (EU), so we're taking extra care to always pay asap - it's probably why we often get 40+ elite players (Beastyqt, Artist, Nerchio, Stephano, Dimaga, Cloud, etc.) amongst the 150+ participants each week  | ||
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Barty
France64 Posts
On November 02 2011 08:32 Jayp wrote: TL;DR: These companies are paying out of pocket, do something rash and it will end. Let's play and divide all prize pools by 5, I don't care, I want to see good games, not big checks. I personnally don't care about the stakes. Also, you can't kill something that can't live on its own (talking about the sc2 scene). | ||
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int4ct
Estonia4 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On November 02 2011 21:14 Dexx wrote: Hello, I am a German laywer who is into gaming although I don't have time for that anymore. Without knowing the contract you signed before playing for the mentioned companies (this contract could give the EPS a couple of month to pay!), I can support you with a broad guideline for the German EPS, if this EPS is in fact a German company and you contractually did not make any other law applicable: If your contract is nothing special, you should write a "Mahnung" to the EPS: "Hiermit fordere ich Sie auf, den fälligen Geldbetrag in Höhe von xy auf mein angegebenes Konto xy bis spätestens zum xy zur Überweisung bei Ihrer Bank anzuweisen. Sollten Sie dieser Aufforderung nicht nachkommen, werde ich mich anwaltlicher Hilfe bedienen müssen, die Sie zu tragen hätten. Denn Sie befänden sich gemäß § 286 Abs. 1 BGB im Verzug." If they don't do anything, you should go to a laywer. This is no "Rechtsberatung". You will not have any claims, in case I did something wrong. I just wanted to help you out with your next step. In any case go to a laywer. Yes, everyone listen to the lawyer. No troll. Google Translate wrote: I hereby challenge you to the amount of cash due to my nominated account xy xy xy be advised no later than the transfer at your bank. Should they fail to meet this request, I will have to use an attorney help, you would have to bear. Because if you were in accordance with § 286 para 1 BGB in default. | ||
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Thud
1 Post
I am Thud from Pomf & Thud. We are a duo of french SC2 shoutcasters (if you don't know us, we shoutcasted the finals ESWC world this year). Here is our Youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/user/PomfEtThud Most of the organisations pay us in time, ESWC even paid us two weeks before the event (which is a miracle). But we once had to wait like 4 months (with calls and stuff) to get paid by one organisation which we cannot give the name. We were told there were sponsors issues as well. At the end, the sponsor didnt pay the organization, which still honored their contract towards us with their own funds. And we really appreciated it. Sponsors not paying or paying ULTRA late are the bane of french e-sports. Right now, our Youtube channel is directly sponsored by ASUS ROG FR and RAZER FR, and everything is going fine with them. But we've had sponsors delaying their paiments. We ve even had a sponsor not paying at all ... To my eyes, organizations are doing their best, it's just that players are always the last to be paid (organizations pay the rental of technical stuff first) and so they suffer the bad sponsors. Sorry for my english | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3561 Posts
Several others tournaments have,t paid anything yet either. The same goes for the teams in Europe, it seems quite normal now to have delayed payment of a player's salary (we can take an easy example in virus gaming, but they are not the only ones). It's a really sad truth but the players dont have a lot of options in this situaiton, whereas it seems teams have a lot more power when one of their players wants to leave. | ||
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Grettin
42416 Posts
Just to let everyone know, i'm not trying to bash Justin/Twitch or anything, i'm just curious and surprised that they aren't paying "fast" enough, at least in this case. Yes they said they had some address problems and what not, but still. | ||
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