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On November 01 2011 05:38 D.Devil wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 05:23 Naniwa wrote:On November 01 2011 05:10 D.Devil wrote:On November 01 2011 04:41 Naniwa wrote:On November 01 2011 01:21 D.Devil wrote:
This isn't a recent problem but something that haunts esports since its early days. The CPL didn't ever pay some teams the prize money for events in 2002 and 2003 and still continued to live on for quite a while.
Nonetheless, even it might seem counter-intuitive at first, blacklists and publicly calling out organizations won't help anyone. Hosting a big event requires a lot of work, and the prize money is a rather small (yet important) aspect overall. So don't expect anyone to be there to just "replace" today's organizers if they are forced to quit. Even if they're at fault, there's no point in boycotting as it'll only make everyone wait longer or not receive any money at all. So it's not really coincidence that most teams prefer to be quiet as long as the organizers play fair (which the CPL ultimately didn't, so it was boycotted and forced to quit after all). funny that you are talking since Your wc3 team Hoorai scammed me off 600 euros you piece of...... hi :o You know very well that I didn't handle the payments at hoorai and it wasn't my responsibility to take care of that. Also we always treated -and paiid- you well. But anyway, that's many years ago (and certainly hoorai was far from perfect).. tbh I don't even remember if you're right, but it may very well be. In any case: I'm sorry, dude. I just don't see why you even bring this up now as I don't feel like it's related to my post. (and I believe calling me a piece of shit isn't the way to go.) My point still stands: By creating blacklists and boycotting events, you only make things worse. This isn't the solution to this problem. Of course, something needs to be done about it, but I don't like that the majority of people here believes that you achieve that by punishing ESL, ESWC and others. you think i would have some fake grudge against you? for fck sake get real, you were co owner of the team so stop tossing away responsibility pay up or gtfo Sorry, I didn't mean it like that - it came across wrong. It's just because I don't remember if it's due to the contract modification we agreed upon or your last salaries... but it doesn't really matter, I believe you, really. Like I said: sorry. I hope you agree with me that we at least paid most of your money. It's not like we just "scammed" you. Anyway, I'm honestly glad to see you're doing well in SC2. Best of luck, man.
What's it like then, you offered him a contract and then didn't fulfill your half of the bargain? Leave the thread and pay Nani his money.
And of course it doesn't matter to you, you're not the one getting 600 euros taken away.
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On November 01 2011 05:36 RoosterSamurai wrote:
Do poker players have to deal with this kind of stuff?
Yeah! Full tilt owes me like $1500!
Well I guess that's only because they got shut down for being illegal. Maybe shutting down the tournaments is a bad way to get paid back..
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On November 01 2011 05:47 ReachTheSky wrote:
Lol D.Devil just made me laugh so hard. I'm sure he is curling up in a ball from the sheer stupidity he is feeling right now ;P
Just shows how big of an issue it is when guys who are complicit in players not getting compensated freely post in here like it's no big deal. It's actually that commonplace in gaming.
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Haha ESL is horrible paying out money. ESL owe NaVi's cs 1.6 team ~$90 000 in June this year. Don't know if they got the money yet or not.
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Considering that the players are literally 100% of why viewers (followed by sponsors) are interested in tournaments they aught to be the #1 priority as far as finances go.
You can give me huge stages, great commentators and great technical support all day but I'm not going to give a shit about it unless there are good players present.
Players have it hard enough. They should be royalty.
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On November 01 2011 05:37 HappyChris wrote:
Im sure it also pains the pro players that cant pay there rent becuase they still waiting for price winning after 6 months.
eSports is still in a volatile stage. If they are unprepared for the circumstances surrounding their chosen career, then that's their problem. We are an incredibly spoiled generation.
On November 01 2011 05:37 HappyChris wrote:
Again why should the players care whatever the reason are for not getting payments in a reasonable timescale?
If you are aware of the reason, it's not unreasonable.
Basically what you're saying is that, unless a company (that in this case we'll say, takes a portion of their monthly marketing budget for use in a tournament), somehow finds in their coffers enough to pay out their full desired contribution at one time, they should not bother contributing to eSports?
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Seems like some sort of players union needs to be set up for progamers. I know players teams help out trying to retrieve their players money, but if it's this bad then there needs to be more.
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On November 01 2011 04:06 xShoeicide wrote:
Does anyone know if MLG pay players? I have membership with MLG and GSL and would cancel them if they dont pay.
(Ive tried to read through the posts and didnt see this question asked or answered)
MLG pays within 24 hours (done by cheque) and the GSL is Korean, of course it's on time...
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On November 01 2011 04:22 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 04:17 tetrismaan wrote:
Why would a union for Starcraft players be bad? At the very least, teams should have managers sorting out all these problems for them instead of them having to worry themselves.
An organisation like KeSPA would be great for Starcraft as well. Just like UEFA and FIFA for soccer, and all other organisations for every other sport.
KeSPA borderline brutalized players. Like most professional sports, the players were paid a teensie tiny portion of the revenue they actually generated. Wishing for a KeSPA for SCII will have drawbacks that we might not want.
At least they paid unlike so many other tournaments and organizations. But naming kespa and fifa as good organizations was a bit lol.
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So Devil, it's perfectly acceptable to only pay at least "most of the money"? Wonder where the rest went, eh? What a rip-off...oh wait...sounds like a scam.
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To all the people who claim that you need to pay a lawyer to be able to go to court, this is wrong. You don't need a lawyer, I used to work as a freelancer in marketing for a small company for a couple of months to finance my study at university, they refused to pay the last 2 months they owed me but I had documents that proved that I worked for them so I decided to press charges on their asses (it was about 2,500 euros in total).
I had a legally-binding contract and copies of concluded contracts with customers. I didn't need a lawyer, I went there all by myself and I got my money because I had evidence. And I feel like the players could do exactly the same, as long as they have evidence that the organizations owe them money they have nothing to fear.
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On November 01 2011 05:50 divito wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 05:37 HappyChris wrote:
Im sure it also pains the pro players that cant pay there rent becuase they still waiting for price winning after 6 months. eSports is still in a volatile stage. If they are unprepared for the circumstances surrounding their chosen career, then that's their problem. We are an incredibly spoiled generation. Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 05:37 HappyChris wrote:
Again why should the players care whatever the reason are for not getting payments in a reasonable timescale? If you are aware of the reason, it's not unreasonable. Basically what you're saying is that, unless a company (that in this case we'll say, takes a portion of their monthly marketing budget for use in a tournament), somehow finds in their coffers enough to pay out their full desired contribution at one time, they should not bother contributing to eSports?
What other profession would you wonder if you will get paid within 6 months so you can make rent? Oh right none.
If they promise money they can not deliver or at the best deliver 6 months to a year later then yes they should gtfo of esports. I wouldn't open a business if I had no means to pay the employees for 6 months while telling them they would be paid immediately. To call that spoiled is idiotic, the only thing that is, is highly irresponsible by the tournaments.
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It seems like western (particularly european) tournament havent changed at all, in the last 10 years  . I remember back in the golden age of cs, there was quiet a few big tournaments taht never paid up . So sad.
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So many people in this thread think ESL doesnt pay.
Thats WRONG.
They always pay, just really, really slow.
As Carmac posted, its a bit better @ IEM events than national events (eps) / random other cups
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For all the meme-like, "This and that is hurting ESPORTS," it is ironic that this comes to light. Professionals on the scene, coming into tournaments and being forced to harass event organizers to pay up their promised sums! And all this kept quiet for so long!
You publish prize money to attract players, the contract is come and if you win, you get this prize. Breach of contract. Legitimate concerns, all of them. The best of the players should look into forming a body that they donate to enough to fund legal action and help tarnish the name of organizers that don't make good on their promises within 2 months.
It's all shits and giggles until legal action.
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The most concerning thing with this topic is all the fans calling for a "boycott". Why would the fans boycott tournaments, by not buying/watching streams? If players have a legit grievance and concern with an tournament hosting body, THEY will be the ones boycotting. If all your favourite players show up to a tournament and TL decides they're going to boycott the shit out of it all that gets accomplished is less revenue for the tournament and a reduction in the likelihood the players get paid. If you want to watch your favourite guys play you don't rob yourself of that opportunity because you feel they might not get paid. That's just mind-numbingly stupid.
The only time a fan should ever consider boycotting is if top players are sitting out an event to protest it and the organizers are replacing them with scabs. Then you should go out of your way to not watch the event.
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On November 01 2011 02:39 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 02:08 Joshy.IGN wrote:
Note from IGN: We paid out everyone from IPL season 1, and we are aware that certain players from IPL 2 have not yet received their winnings. IPL 2's grand final aired on August 14th, not even 90 days ago. We have everyone's financial information from IPL 2 and the current word is that checks/Paypal transfers should be ready to go within the week.
One thing about IGN Pro League that people may not consider is that we are not just 1 guy with $1000 laying around that we can just dump in someone's account the moment they win a bo5. IGN is a massive organization that we are just one part of, and we have to adhere to all of the federal regulations that are invoked when dealing with paying thousands of dollars to (as far as the law is concerned) international contractors. We have a finance department that must be satisfied with its paperwork before we can give out money. Not only this, but our players were informed that there would be a wait involved when we collected their payment information.
I'm sorry to hear that ClouD, Darkforce, and others have been waiting a long time for a lot of money, but trust me, IGN Pro League has every intent of paying everyone, even down to translators for online qualifiers, what they are owed. =) i have not been paid for ipl season 1
OH SHIT
+ Show Spoiler +And he won First Place IPL 1 too .. 10,000 Bucks?-15,000 i forget but anyways Joshy said "We paid out everyone from IPL season 1"
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This is why I'm proud we at Playhem pay our winners in a quick, efficient manner 
I really hope you get your prize money...that always stink to not get rewarded for your hard work.
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On November 01 2011 05:56 bigjenk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 05:50 divito wrote:On November 01 2011 05:37 HappyChris wrote:
Im sure it also pains the pro players that cant pay there rent becuase they still waiting for price winning after 6 months. eSports is still in a volatile stage. If they are unprepared for the circumstances surrounding their chosen career, then that's their problem. We are an incredibly spoiled generation. On November 01 2011 05:37 HappyChris wrote:
Again why should the players care whatever the reason are for not getting payments in a reasonable timescale? If you are aware of the reason, it's not unreasonable. Basically what you're saying is that, unless a company (that in this case we'll say, takes a portion of their monthly marketing budget for use in a tournament), somehow finds in their coffers enough to pay out their full desired contribution at one time, they should not bother contributing to eSports? What other profession would you wonder if you will get paid within 6 months so you can make rent? Oh right none.If they promise money they can not deliver or at the best deliver 6 months to a year later then yes they should gtfo of esports. I wouldn't open a business if I had no means to pay the employees for 6 months while telling them they would be paid immediately. To call that spoiled is idiotic, the only thing that is, is highly irresponsible by the tournaments.
That's exactly the point dude....
If you want a pay cheque on the first and fifteenth eSports probably isn't for you.
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Kinda feel like ESWC has been bashed a bit too much in this thread, the owners now are not the ones who were known for not paying out the money, that where the previous owners who went bankruptcy with the brand. I'm pretty sure that the current owners have done a fine job paying out, at least as far as i remember that was what Na'Vi.cs said last year after they won it.
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EPT
