|
On October 26 2011 18:37 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 18:34 j0ker wrote:On October 26 2011 18:22 Carryz wrote:On October 26 2011 17:58 Snorkle wrote:On October 26 2011 17:47 Carryz wrote:Before I even get into my post, I'd just like to address how funny forums work. It gives people the chance to sit around and share their opinions. It sounds great until you have your bronze-diamond level player trying to voice their opinions. Of course it's hard for opinions to be wrong but in this case... PLEASE kindly shut the fuck up. + Show Spoiler [ranting] +It's mind boggling and REALLY hard to hold back flaming when you see such low level players talking like they know what they're talking about. Not only that, but to call an actual pro-player an idiot? Seriously? ROFL. There's a reason why he's a professional player and you're sitting there trying to figure out how to get out of the platinum league.
News flash: Most of you lower level players think you know more than you actually do. Just because you're able to follow the GSL and listen to what Tastosis says does NOT mean you have even the slightest idea of what's going on in the game if you were just spectating and analyzing it yourself. And it's astounding to me that it's these people that feel the need to chime in with their terribly and simply put, WRONG opinion.
The whole point is that their IDEA of these new units are so flawed and just so horribly designed that it needs to be complained about now before it even has a chance to make it into the beta.
If everyone went along with the dumb fuck idea of, "Oh, it's only in alpha. Just wait until it's finally released before you pass judgment," the game would be in shambles because of the imbalances and general discontent from the pro players. When a professional player gives his opinion, it's worth a lot more than your bronze level knowledge of the game.
With that in mind, I find it very hard to disagree with TT1 unless like I mentioned before, you really have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
A lot of the new units and specifically spell caster units are gimmicky. There's no other way to explain it. It's obvious that Blizzard is finding influence from WoW. Every potential new spell has a huge similarity to its WoW counterpart. The Viper's grip-like pull? Death Grip. Pulling your own friendly units back? Leap of Faith. Replica? The same retarded move that Death Knights have that copy the opponent's spells.
As cringing as it is comparing SC2 to WoW, you cannot deny that some of the new spells are disturbingly close mirrors of the spells in WoW. They're gimmicky spells that will just simply dumb down SC2, and that not even mentioning the new fail-safe abilities on the Nexus. SC2 isn't going to be the micro-intensive fights that you would see in BW. It's better off being called Spellcraft at this rate. It's bad enough that a few EMPs in a battle can potentially end the game. Now they're adding more spells that will outright fuck the game. Your main point is that the almighty TT1's opinion is the consensus of all pro players and infallible. Guess what, TT1 isn't the only pro in the world and others have differing opinions. If the game is broken for top level play guess what happens? Tournaments keep using WoL. Blizzard already stated they don't care if tournaments keep playing WoL so like I said if its terrible broken we just won't play it. My main point is that a pro gamer's opinion is a thousand times more valuable than your average TL poster. And I guarantee that the majority of pro gamers feel the same way about the new units. If you don't see the new units as gimmicky and has no place in SC2, then just move right along and disregard my post. You just don't understand. A professional giving his feedback on what he has seen is what exactly Blizzard needs. The SC2 scene isn't based on low level play where the players are shitting themselves over having "cool" spells. So when someone of his stature actually takes their time to write a long post like that, it's invaluable. Also brilliant idea to just stick with WoL for tourney play if HotS does end up in shambles. Instead of giving Blizzard criticism now so they have more time to brainstorm better ideas, we'll just fall back on letting them do whatever and if it fails, at least we'll have WoL to play! Brilliant business model and a great future for HotS. lol. a fringe progamer getting on a high horse about balance is hardly worth anything to be honest. And any current player is going to be hopelessly biased towards their own race anyways. Tonight's State of the Game was a great opportunity to hear educated, high-level starcraft minds discuss the new additions. And it was hardly an OMG END OF THE WORLD consensus that so many people here want to believe it is. Listening to Artosis and Tyler discuss the new units in the context of how they add complexity and reward skill and strategic thinking means a billion times more than listening to TT1 ramble about how muta harass is somehow dead and the world of SC2 will be forever ruined. Ok, just one thing. HOW ON EARTH is TT1 as a "fringe" progamers opinion less worth than Tyler's (dunno why he even is a SC2 progamer, for sure not because of results) and Artosis (isn't progamer but basically makes money from hyping up SC2 and therefore is probably the most biased person to talk about SC2 ever...) say? Because theire positive while earning money on a damn SC2-MLG-Hype podcast? ... ...
because they actually make intelligent comments and don't mindlessly whine about how a new addition is going to change the metagame of a completely different game? Its not like they say there for 3 hours and praised every new fucking thing, but they actually took a second and thought about FUTURE applications and overall design goals. listening to artosis and tyler(and destiny for that matter) rationally discuss the new unit ideas and their potential while Incontrol wildly ranted about how pylon rushes were going to break the whole fucking game greatly highlights the difference between the rambling fucking idiots in this thread and the rational people that consider a 30 second highlight video just might not be quite enough to give a complete and final judgement on one of the new additions.
|
Virtually everyone seems to hate the replicant, and Blizzard themselves weren't sure about it, so chances of cuttage seem very, very good.
|
On October 26 2011 18:31 Carryz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 18:23 Kerm wrote:On October 26 2011 17:47 Carryz wrote:
Before I even get into my post, I'd just like to address how funny forums work. It gives people the chance to sit around and share their opinions. It sounds great until you have your bronze-diamond level player trying to voice their opinions. Of course it's hard for opinions to be wrong but in this case... PLEASE kindly shut the fuck up.
It's mind boggling and REALLY hard to hold back flaming when you see such low level players talking like they know what they're talking about. Not only that, but to call an actual pro-player an idiot? Seriously? ROFL. There's a reason why he's a professional player and you're sitting there trying to figure out how to get out of the platinum league.
News flash: Most of you lower level players think you know more than you actually do. Just because you're able to follow the GSL and listen to what Tastosis says does NOT mean you have even the slightest idea of what's going on in the game if you were just spectating and analyzing it yourself. And it's astounding to me that it's these people that feel the need to chime in with their terribly and simply put, WRONG opinion.
The whole point is that their IDEA of these new units are so flawed and just so horribly designed that it needs to be complained about now before it even has a chance to make it into the beta.
If everyone went along with the dumb fuck idea of, "Oh, it's only in alpha. Just wait until it's finally released before you pass judgment," the game would be in shambles because of the imbalances and general discontent from the pro players. When a professional player gives his opinion, it's worth a lot more than your bronze level knowledge of the game.
With that in mind, I find it very hard to disagree with TT1 unless like I mentioned before, you really have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
A lot of the new units and specifically spell caster units are gimmicky. There's no other way to explain it. It's obvious that Blizzard is finding influence from WoW. Every potential new spell has a huge similarity to its WoW counterpart. The Viper's grip-like pull? Death Grip. Pulling your own friendly units back? Leap of Faith. Replica? The same retarded move that Death Knights have that copy the opponent's spells.
As cringing as it is comparing SC2 to WoW, you cannot deny that some of the new spells are disturbingly close mirrors of the spells in WoW. They're gimmicky spells that will just simply dumb down SC2, and that not even mentioning the new fail-safe abilities on the Nexus. SC2 isn't going to be the micro-intensive fights that you would see in BW. It's better off being called Spellcraft at this rate. It's bad enough that a few EMPs in a battle can potentially end the game. Now they're adding more spells that will outright fuck the game. News flash : game design is a real, hard, qualified job. The fact that random people or pro gamer thinks they can do better that industry veteran like Bowder is as real as saying that Bowder could kick their ass in a Bo3. Give TT1 or any smart ass in that thread saying HoTS unit design are "obviously flawed" a millions buck budget, and a team to design the ideal SC2, and you 100% know what you get : a shitty product and tons of wasted money. So i suggest to take your stupid elitism where it belong : in the end game chat , complaining about balance after having your bottom wiped by some GM that plays better than you. Let pro gamer play the game, and make meaningfull constructive feedbacks if they whish, but don't go ahead and bombard them game designers, they are not. News flash: Your reading skills are lacking, go back to school. If you can't decipher a few simple paragraphs and make some sense of it, don't bother posting. The point obviously flew over your head. No one is bashing Blizzard's ability to technically create a game. They have created some of the best games on PC. The criticism here is that their idea and the design of the new units are cringe worthy, hence "flawed." And lol @ the elitism. I'd rather read an elitist pro player's opinion rather than the opinion of a player that has no idea what they're talking about. I'm not even going to get started on your rant about losing to GM players. It's about 11:30am in France, stay in school man.
The point did not flew over my head, but i probably made the mistake of adressing globally many answer while quoting only yours.
However i'm quite capable of reading things like :
The whole point is that their IDEA of these new units are so flawed and just so horribly designed that it needs to be complained about now before it even has a chance to make it into the beta.
So yeah you are clearly attacking the game design skills of Bowder's team, so i'm totally on point, despite your brash try to make me look like a fool.
The same kind of critiques, coming also from some pro players, have been made back during beta, about "dumbing down the game", "skill ceiling", "removing micro" and stuff, and obviously they have been proven wrong by the success of SC2 in esport.
So i respect you valuating Pro gamer's opinion, and Bowder obviously does too. I agree also that when talking about how the game works, the opinion of a pro player is probably more valuable than that of an amateur one. Although I would not deny casual players to give their opinions.
But my point is that those pro players are not game designers, and that the solution is not to blindly take their criticisms on the new unit design as the way to go toward a successful product. They have been proven wrong in the past, and that's normal because their job is to play the game, not to make it. And Bowder has brought the game where it is now (which is : a fairly balanced game, and the most competitive RTS of the market), so I don't see any ground for anyone to brag they know better about SC2 design than them.
I'll pass on your time zone teasing (congratz on calculating the time difference, huge feat), because after reading you i'm not sure if I should go back to school or stay in it. But i'll tell you a secret : i'm at office atm.
Peace.
|
On October 26 2011 18:43 kuroshiro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 11:45 TT1 wrote:On October 26 2011 11:43 Silidons wrote:
i don't care if the replicant is OP as shit. it's a fuckign stupid ass design and does not belong in the starcraft universe. i will NOT use it under ANY circumstances. just like i am slowly doing this with the colossus. fucking retarded units that i don't enjoy using whatsoever. exactly, im not arguing whether or not its OP or UP.. its function as a unit does not belong in SC Have to agree - a personal opinion of course, but Blizz _have_ been asking for feedback (maybe they read TL!). Replicant just feels like such a bad unit regardless of its utility within the game. A real cop-out fix-me-up for the race. I guess game balance is more important than the way the game `feels', but this is pushing pretty hard on that trade-off for me. Regardless of balance questions, it really feels like protoss got the short end of the stick. Oh well, I'll be interested to see how the oracle pans out (sceptical btw). PS Think the collo sucks as well! :p
What are your assumptions to say that it does not belong to the game ?
Have I miss the note on the SC philosophy ? Should I sign somewhere or make donations to somebody ?
Is it just because it is different than SC1 ? Did anybody say after BW release that is does not belong to SC because it is not like SC....0 ?!? mmm what ??
If starcraft 2 was called skywar 1, would it be okay to have a game like that ?
|
The replicant is still a bad unit I guess. DK said that it will allow Protoss to have the unit they feel is OP. But even if ghost are OP vs Protoss does not mean it is VS Terran. This argument is kinda of bad, and I have the feeling they really have not put much thought on it beside: "I think it is cool, let's see what it will do."
|
On October 26 2011 18:48 Merlimoo wrote:
Is it just because it is different than SC1 ? Did anybody say after BW release that is does not belong to SC because it is not like SC....0 ?!? mmm what ??
If starcraft 2 was called skywar 1, would it be okay to have a game like that ?
The philosophy of Starcraft is to have 3 very different races - as opposed to something like Age of Empires which has numerous races with small differences. The replicant goes against this, melding Terran and Zerg with Protoss. Protoss would no longer be unique - they would just steal the best of all worlds. The balancing would be a nightmare also, for this reason.
|
On October 26 2011 18:47 Yaotzin wrote:
Virtually everyone seems to hate the replicant, and Blizzard themselves weren't sure about it, so chances of cuttage seem very, very good.
thats not even remotely true. rational people who have no fucking clue how any of the new stuff is going to play out generally tend to avoid wildly screaming and whining on the internet about how their precious 1 year old game is getting ruined forever because of what they saw in a 20 second highlight video created solely to generate hype.
|
Russian Federation51 Posts
The world goes on, everything is changing. Remember everybody played Warcraft 3 Reign of Chaos, and when ned add-on appeared everybody were screaming like - ,, Wtf!!! Panda?? Tavern? Shops??? Decreased cost on all units? Speeded gameplay!!". Though, everybody played on and on!!
AND the MOST nice thing is new units, that somehow will destroy terrans tactic mmm. New units, new tactics , e.t.c. Dont worry about that, be happy. Open your mind to new tactics and units! Dont be afraid!!!
|
On October 26 2011 18:51 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 18:48 Merlimoo wrote:
Is it just because it is different than SC1 ? Did anybody say after BW release that is does not belong to SC because it is not like SC....0 ?!? mmm what ??
If starcraft 2 was called skywar 1, would it be okay to have a game like that ? The philosophy of Starcraft is to have 3 very different races - as opposed to something like Age of Empires which has numerous races with small differences. The replicant goes against this, melding Terran and Zerg with Protoss. Protoss would no longer be unique - they would just steal the best of all worlds. The balancing would be a nightmare also, for this reason.
Or protoss would be the race that can adapt at the last seconds, like warpgate allows to do.
I agree it's not sc1 protoss, it is sc2 protoss.
|
Too early to complain about anything. I'm just being worried that the whole game ends up being way too gimmicky with all these shredders, replicators and what not.
|
On October 26 2011 18:51 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 18:48 Merlimoo wrote:
Is it just because it is different than SC1 ? Did anybody say after BW release that is does not belong to SC because it is not like SC....0 ?!? mmm what ??
If starcraft 2 was called skywar 1, would it be okay to have a game like that ? The philosophy of Starcraft is to have 3 very different races - as opposed to something like Age of Empires which has numerous races with small differences. The replicant goes against this, melding Terran and Zerg with Protoss. Protoss would no longer be unique - they would just steal the best of all worlds. The balancing would be a nightmare also, for this reason.
protoss has the most advanced technology of the 3 races and the replicant actually fits in with their lore. having the ability to copy a single unit for 200 gas in no way threatens a melding of the races anymore than neural parasite.
|
Don't worry to much. They don't want a game nobody want. If it sucks, they will change it. They don't need to do polls on forums to see if a game is appreciated or not.
|
On October 26 2011 18:52 j0ker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 18:47 Yaotzin wrote:
Virtually everyone seems to hate the replicant, and Blizzard themselves weren't sure about it, so chances of cuttage seem very, very good. thats not even remotely true. rational people who have no fucking clue how any of the new stuff is going to play out generally tend to avoid wildly screaming and whining on the internet about how their precious 1 year old game is getting ruined forever because of what they saw in a 20 second highlight video created solely to generate hype.
Of course no one can be certain how something will play out - including Blizzard. But you can make decent guesses. How do you think they come up with units? Just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks?
The replicant has balance and design issues. Browder himself mentioned this. Combine these facts with most people disliking the unit in concept, and there's really not a whole lot of reason to try and make it work.
|
TT1's putting to words how exactly the Protoss units feel gimmicky in HoTS. There's so many spells now that it's ending up very little about army and economy management now.
On the specific units, I can't for the life of me figure out how the Oracle can be exciting from the spectator standpoint. Put down entomb/phase shift... cool, you've done something with a unit that flies so fast the opponent can't do much about it. Can't catch up to it, can't sim city it. Nothing to really get excited about, but it's expected to be "the" harrassment unit for Protoss that is specifically designed to not do anything else. This also makes it that by design, if it's slow and counterable, it simply goes to the point of uselessness.
As for the replicant, it would certainly be fine if it's just for a fun unit, but designing it to be massable and integrated to the Protoss army core is just meh. Seriously, time and energy spent into balancing this nightmare of a design can be better spent on coming up with better stuff.
|
On October 26 2011 18:54 j0ker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 18:51 Yaotzin wrote:On October 26 2011 18:48 Merlimoo wrote:
Is it just because it is different than SC1 ? Did anybody say after BW release that is does not belong to SC because it is not like SC....0 ?!? mmm what ??
If starcraft 2 was called skywar 1, would it be okay to have a game like that ? The philosophy of Starcraft is to have 3 very different races - as opposed to something like Age of Empires which has numerous races with small differences. The replicant goes against this, melding Terran and Zerg with Protoss. Protoss would no longer be unique - they would just steal the best of all worlds. The balancing would be a nightmare also, for this reason. protoss has the most advanced technology of the 3 races and the replicant actually fits in with their lore. having the ability to copy a single unit for 200 gas in no way threatens a melding of the races anymore than neural parasite.
Neural and replicant are worlds apart. Neural steals a unit within range 7 for a short period. Replicant copies a unit permanently, and allows infinite more copies of it. So you could make an entire army of infestor/colossus/viper or templar/ghost/tank or such things. None of these armies would be Protoss armies anymore, thus diluting the unique nature of each race.
Or protoss would be the race that can adapt at the last seconds, like warpgate allows to do.
I agree it's not sc1 protoss, it is sc2 protoss.
It is too expensive to ever be used like this - you would be rolled by simple, cheap units like marine/marauder. But it has to be expensive or you'll copy a million ghosts/infestors.
It's a nightmare to balance, and an icky design that dilutes the uniqueness of the race. It should go.
|
On October 26 2011 18:56 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 18:52 j0ker wrote:On October 26 2011 18:47 Yaotzin wrote:
Virtually everyone seems to hate the replicant, and Blizzard themselves weren't sure about it, so chances of cuttage seem very, very good. thats not even remotely true. rational people who have no fucking clue how any of the new stuff is going to play out generally tend to avoid wildly screaming and whining on the internet about how their precious 1 year old game is getting ruined forever because of what they saw in a 20 second highlight video created solely to generate hype. Of course no one can be certain how something will play out - including Blizzard. But you can make decent guesses. How do you think they come up with units? Just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks? The replicant has balance and design issues. Browder himself mentioned this. Combine these facts with most people disliking the unit in concept, and there's really not a whole lot of reason to try and make it work.
Don't take too seriously the opinions of everyone before trying it out. Sometimes, everybody hates something, and when they are shown what they can do with is in a more profound way, they will love it.
|
If you wouldve seen the vid where blilzzard explains about the protoss units, you'll find out that they didnt design the new units to fit within the main deathball, but rather to fulfill niche roles that they felt protoss was lacking. And micro wise: i kinda agree with some of the stuff, but I think adding spellcasters is somewhat inevitable if they want to keep it more interesting. And lets be honest with eachother about micro in BW: 90% of APM was necessary just to not make your units completely screw up the most basic engagements.
|
On October 26 2011 18:39 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 18:31 Carryz wrote:On October 26 2011 18:23 Kerm wrote:On October 26 2011 17:47 Carryz wrote:
Before I even get into my post, I'd just like to address how funny forums work. It gives people the chance to sit around and share their opinions. It sounds great until you have your bronze-diamond level player trying to voice their opinions. Of course it's hard for opinions to be wrong but in this case... PLEASE kindly shut the fuck up.
It's mind boggling and REALLY hard to hold back flaming when you see such low level players talking like they know what they're talking about. Not only that, but to call an actual pro-player an idiot? Seriously? ROFL. There's a reason why he's a professional player and you're sitting there trying to figure out how to get out of the platinum league.
News flash: Most of you lower level players think you know more than you actually do. Just because you're able to follow the GSL and listen to what Tastosis says does NOT mean you have even the slightest idea of what's going on in the game if you were just spectating and analyzing it yourself. And it's astounding to me that it's these people that feel the need to chime in with their terribly and simply put, WRONG opinion.
The whole point is that their IDEA of these new units are so flawed and just so horribly designed that it needs to be complained about now before it even has a chance to make it into the beta.
If everyone went along with the dumb fuck idea of, "Oh, it's only in alpha. Just wait until it's finally released before you pass judgment," the game would be in shambles because of the imbalances and general discontent from the pro players. When a professional player gives his opinion, it's worth a lot more than your bronze level knowledge of the game.
With that in mind, I find it very hard to disagree with TT1 unless like I mentioned before, you really have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
A lot of the new units and specifically spell caster units are gimmicky. There's no other way to explain it. It's obvious that Blizzard is finding influence from WoW. Every potential new spell has a huge similarity to its WoW counterpart. The Viper's grip-like pull? Death Grip. Pulling your own friendly units back? Leap of Faith. Replica? The same retarded move that Death Knights have that copy the opponent's spells.
As cringing as it is comparing SC2 to WoW, you cannot deny that some of the new spells are disturbingly close mirrors of the spells in WoW. They're gimmicky spells that will just simply dumb down SC2, and that not even mentioning the new fail-safe abilities on the Nexus. SC2 isn't going to be the micro-intensive fights that you would see in BW. It's better off being called Spellcraft at this rate. It's bad enough that a few EMPs in a battle can potentially end the game. Now they're adding more spells that will outright fuck the game. News flash : game design is a real, hard, qualified job. The fact that random people or pro gamer thinks they can do better that industry veteran like Bowder is as real as saying that Bowder could kick their ass in a Bo3. Give TT1 or any smart ass in that thread saying HoTS unit design are "obviously flawed" a millions buck budget, and a team to design the ideal SC2, and you 100% know what you get : a shitty product and tons of wasted money. So i suggest to take your stupid elitism where it belong : in the end game chat , complaining about balance after having your bottom wiped by some GM that plays better than you. Let pro gamer play the game, and make meaningfull constructive feedbacks if they whish, but don't go ahead and bombard them game designers, they are not. News flash: Your reading skills are lacking, go back to school. If you can't decipher a few simple paragraphs and make some sense of it, don't bother posting. The point obviously flew over your head. No one is bashing Blizzard's ability to technically create a game. They have created some of the best games on PC. The criticism here is that their idea and the design of the new units are cringe worthy, hence "flawed." And lol @ the elitism. I'd rather read an elitist pro player's opinion rather than the opinion of a player that has no idea what they're talking about. I'm not even going to get started on your rant about losing to GM players. It's about 11:30am in France, stay in school man. So, care to explain the cringe worthiness of the new unit designs? I think a lot of people dont see it. Enlighten us.
I'll be glad to. If you haven't noticed already, games as of late have been produced to cater to casuals. You see it in all games, everything has become a lot easier and more newbie friendly. An example would be any of the CoD series or WoW. Any advancements or expansions of these games comes with much more ease to play. Of course this isn't about FPS or MMOs, but it holds the same concept.
I'm aware that SC2 is a VERY new game. I'm aware that it takes a very long to balance and perfect an RTS game. I am also very aware that SC2 and BW are two seperate games. Let's just get those out of the way.
There's a very simple reason why people are overreacting to something that is in its alpha stages. The idea and plan behind the new units are lacking and simply dull. On the other hand, if it's something that is "interesting," it's on the other extreme of being completely out of place in a SC2 game.
The reason why people keep referring back to BW is because it's a good model to take ideas from. It's essentially the perfect and most well balanced RTS game. It's not unreasonable for people to want the game to be similar. The game differs mechanically, but you can still derive other aspects of BW and implement it into SC2.
In TT1's case, he's complaining about the potential fail-safes. In particular, the abilities that the Nexus is receiving. I'm sure that he's well aware that the game is in alpha stages and anything can happen. But based on Blizzard's current ideas and plans for the new units, it's going the wrong direction. No one is saying HotS is going to be a piece of shit. We're just saying that based on what Blizzard has currently done, the future isn't looking too great.
His other complaint are the new units. Like I said in my previous posts, I see them to be very gimmicky. Micro-intensive battles between non-casting units will not be as important as the spell caster battles. This draws back to the BW model. Yes, spell caster units was big in BW but it doesn't play a big as a role as the units in SC2 do. There are countless games where a battle has been decided just based on a few spell caster units. I'm not complaining about that, I'm complaining that adding MORE game changing spells is going to turn SC2 into SpellCraft.
The grip ability is just too out of this world, that simply doesn't belong in SC2. The idea behind it is alright, but in an RTS game like SC2? That just doesn't make sense. The Replica unit is also out of its element in SC2. Being able to just simply copy another unit? If that stays in the game, you will see games revolving around replicating one of the other two opposing races and one player playing two races. That's just too wild, and in a bad way.
|
I agree with most of what you said, Mr.TT1.
1、Starcraft should be a mele-oriented game rather than a caster based one. Adding in too many casters means a risk of breaking the unique flavor of starcraft.
2、The philosophy of fixing issues by simply making things easier is neither fun nor cool, it will always results in the elimination of interesting gaming mechanics and challenging skill sets.
|
bw would have had 20 or more spells for protoss if they thought it would have been possible to handle. And i think the replicant fits okay in the protoss arsenal, if you realize your high tech isn't worth anything against the enemys brutality why not copy them by using your high tech. Atleast I like this idea (and its better then mind control from the dark archon x3, since zerg has it already ). Besides the new added protoss spells aren't used in battle, so they have nothing to do with in battle micro ... and it only adds a different unit to control, which doesn't really dumb down anything, more like double the stuff.
And about bw now lets see the late game desiders for protoss, mmm psy storm, disruption web, maelstorm against zerg, well and scarabs. Against terran stasis and recall. works for other races too. bw had less spellcasters overall, the reason was the control of them wasn't as easy and thats why the spells were in general stronger so you needed less spellcasters. (still at some point you always did see spellcasters in bw on both sides).
So i don't think its a valid point including bw against spellcasters, its more a pro spell casters argument.
And well if you don't want spells there is still terran ;o. Race difference and all, high tech race maniacs normally want tons of spells that feel like magic, if you don't you are a minority.
And for the anti light canon from the nexus ... use it and it means your eco line will be save for a bit, but you just lost 2x chrono or 2/3 of a recall you could have used to go offensiv, mutas got what they wanted, prevented a moveout. (they are just aiding the basetrade situation unwinnable for the protoss atm)
As for the competitive thing, for the viewers it will be enjoyment pure, as they love everything that involves aoes unimportant what it does as long as its an aoe, and they love if those aoes are beat (mostly involving single target spells), atleast thats what i got out of bw  . For the players well they will need to use more skills especially since the new units aren't working clumped into your main army. (Oh terrible we need more skill to play sc2 now, how can blizzard do this). Other then that only thing to say is if you don't like it don't play it.
It was pretty clear to me atleast that sc2 will have tons of skills with their units, when they announced sc2 buildings could be grouped etc etc, just like that aoes would become weaker once i knew you can select multiple groups of units.
But still i enjoy sc2 more then bw, because my army needs more micro, way more then bw, where i was more busy using my (here it comes) spells and then go reproduce my army, while i let the army fight for themself.
Anyway people complained about deathballs and lack of harassment etc etc no mech ... well they seem to get everything with HotS (they also complained about to less spell casters btw)
and as for the replicant being a conter to all ins, first of all you would need the vision, of the high tech units before its to late and 200 gas is alot early game, basically means your opponent can get 2 new units of the same kind against your replicant. Sounds like a huge risk to me that you don't wanna always risk against an allin. And if afraid of a conter well with 200/200 you can get yourself save pretty easy. And well alpha stage unit ... complaining about something like that really ? xD
Anyway what did upset me is that, it was being said its not protoss like and then talking about bw. Mind control maybe ? which sometimes people loved to do to grab massiv units. So bw wasn't protoss like as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
