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United States7483 Posts
On October 26 2011 11:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 11:37 The Final Boss wrote:On October 26 2011 11:36 iLike413 wrote:On October 26 2011 11:30 The Final Boss wrote:On October 26 2011 11:25 ImmortalTofu wrote:On October 26 2011 11:22 The Final Boss wrote:
Now, for all the people talking about "Name a good Korean Protoss" or "Name a good Foreign Terran," I want everybody to try and name something for me. A Macro-Oriented Korean Protoss.
As far as Terrans go, you have players like TOP, TheStC, or Jjakji who consistently go for macro games. I can't think of a Korean Protoss player who looks for macro games often times in PvT, as they usually wind up doing some sort of timing attack, whether it is 1, 2, and very rarely 3 bases. The problem isn't lack of skill, but lack of depth in the play. Korean Protoss players are constantly aggressive--or, at the very least they are overly predictable. Puzzle, and he got rolled pretty much every single time in PvT everytime due to EMP lategame. MC as well, after his GSL March win, and had alot of success against against Terran, with Puma and Bomber. MC does Timing attacks in almost every game he plays. He is far from a Macro-Protoss. And Puzzle's PvT has never really impressed me. Maybe it's because he beat MMA with Dark Templar back in Code A and still almost managed to lose those games due to poor control and macro, but I just don't think he really understands the match-ups that well. But regardless, congrats on naming a single Korean Macro Protoss. Anyone who says "show me a macro protoss herp derp" doesn't really understand the game.... In late game situations terran has the ability to have a much more massive army than toss because they are running off of almost purely mules.. thats at least 30+ extra supply in army comp. Toss have always relied on timing pushes because they are the weakest macro race... You know, about a year ago people were saying that Terran couldn't compete in the late game and that's why you had BitByBit-type players going all-in game after game after game. EDIT: Also, really late game can't Protoss just build a strong Gateway army in approimately 5 seconds, and then with Chronoboost you can then supercharge all of your Gateways and create an even bigger army in no time at all? You had BitByBit going all-in and then he got weeded out and we never heard from him again. Yeah Terrans *totally* couldn't keep up with anyone. Or you could look at the Top Four for each GSL 
That's exactly what he was saying, you agreed with him. He was saying that a while ago, every Terran player was complaining that they had to all-in and that big maps would be disaster for them because they can't win in a long game, but then they learned to play better and are still raping everyone.
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On October 26 2011 12:01 cunningstunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 11:54 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 26 2011 11:47 The Final Boss wrote:On October 26 2011 11:43 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 26 2011 11:38 locant wrote:On October 26 2011 11:24 lee365 wrote:
Well, after this patch it seems I'm going to all in every Protoss I play. If I can barely win a normal game now, after this patch I'm doomed. This. I played a tvp yesterday were I was up a base the whole game, up in upgrades, had perfect emp and still got rolled. Im either going to 6 rax, go back to the 1/1/1 or switch to protoss as this is horrible. I feel sorry for zergs now as they were already having a hard time Besides the fact that your post is hilarious bs, you want to switch from the strongest race to the weakest race? Or are you in Bronze-Silver where Protoss is actually the best? I'm a High Diamond Terran and to prove my friend wrong I practiced Protoss for a weekend and was able to play +50% winrate on my ladder account for about 15 games or so. Personally I thought it was pretty easy to switch to Protoss, and I barely lost in the late game (which happens to be what this patch is targeting to make easier). If the guy works on it I'm sure that he can play Protoss too without too much difficulty (now Zerg, I don't even want to try playing that, haha). Yo dawg, we heard you and locant like making up bullshit stories. You probably lost every game and nerdraged like crazy. Even if I switch to the master race Terran today, I highly doubt I'd be winning most of my games in Masters league. Please tell your silly stories to little kids that will fall for it. Sorry, but the stats say that Protoss is by far the weakest race, especially at Masters / GM / pro level, and suffer still in Diamond and Plat. If Protoss was anywhere near as good as you imply, there would be 20 Protoss in Code S, not 20 Terrans. I'll tell you a story that's actually true. Friend of mine was stuck in Gold as Protoss. Played everyday, couldn't get anywhere. He switches to Zerg, and within 1.5 months, he became Diamond. In another month or 2, he's Masters. And Zerg isn't even as powerful as Terran either. That's just the shitty state of Toss. lol Making up hilarious myths isn't going to get you laid bud, so I don't see why you try . People like you make me want to cry... the literary and physical mind of a total dick.
Calling someone out for making up a ridiculously false story is being a dick? I fail to see how that correlates.
Are you the kind of guy who like kolant says absolutely absurd things and claims them to be true, and then when someone doesn't believe you, you start raging and name calling? I'm just trying to get where you're coming from, because going by your logic, saying someone telling a story of how he rode a falcon and backflipped onto the Great Pyramid and jet skiied across the Atlantic ocean is lying, is being a dick. What?
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im happy about these cheaper upgrades, alot of times protoss is very reliant on being ahead of their opponents in upgrades, this will only help the situation. Also emp radius reduced YIPEE! i may actually start playing protoss again lol, been playing zerg for the past few months.
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On October 26 2011 12:01 Aruno wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 12:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 26 2011 11:42 The Final Boss wrote:
Maybe Protoss haven't realized that they, in fact, have the best spellcaster in the game....
::checks OP's patch notes again:: " Balance
PROTOSSGhosts can now be created from the Gateway for 100/150 after making a Cybernetic Core." YESSSS!!!! :D YEAAAHHHH
By HotS, we'll have them for 200/200 out of our robo facilities
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I like the emp change and the forge changes good stuff,
but while Blizz seems to be following up on everything they said at blizzcon.....
Wheres my help with dealing with the late game Zealot?????
Im so sick of ppl calling out GSL GSL GSL GSL GSL
TvP at Masters level is unbeliavably hard for those of us who wish to not 1-1-1 every game.
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On October 26 2011 11:55 Chairman Ray wrote:
I think this makes PvT a lot more balanced now, but I'm really worried about TvZ. Did they intend to make EMP less effective vs infestors as well? Infestors are rather large units compared to sentries and templars. If a problem does arise in TvZ, perhaps make infestors a bit smaller?
Well normally Infestors are sniped rather then EMPed.
Also I personally think Storm radius should be buffed again back to 2.
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On October 26 2011 12:04 dainbramage wrote:If anyone wants a comparison of EMP sizes: http://i.imgur.com/5IxLs.jpgred = 1.4.2 blue = 1.4 green = beta black = BW
Sweet mother of god, was it seriously that big back in beta?
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As terran, the EMP is probably fine. I'm a small bit worried about how they'll interact with infestors, but whatever.
Cheapening the upgrades though, wish i knew the logic behind that. As if it wasn't bad enough trying to keep up with double forge chrono builds
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Protoss forge upgrades are supposed to cost more than evo and ebay upgrades becaues forge upgrades simply apply to more units. Ebay ups apply to 4 units. Evo ups apply to 3 units, and even then 2 lines of upgrades seperate into melee and range. Forge ups apply to every unit except stargate units.
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Also, shield ups just apply to every single protoss unit,obviously.
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Glad to see the EMP radius change. It already devastates everything Protoss has. It is still gonna be a very devastating ability, just 25% less devastating.
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On October 26 2011 11:58 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 11:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 26 2011 11:37 The Final Boss wrote:On October 26 2011 11:36 iLike413 wrote:On October 26 2011 11:30 The Final Boss wrote:On October 26 2011 11:25 ImmortalTofu wrote:On October 26 2011 11:22 The Final Boss wrote:
Now, for all the people talking about "Name a good Korean Protoss" or "Name a good Foreign Terran," I want everybody to try and name something for me. A Macro-Oriented Korean Protoss.
As far as Terrans go, you have players like TOP, TheStC, or Jjakji who consistently go for macro games. I can't think of a Korean Protoss player who looks for macro games often times in PvT, as they usually wind up doing some sort of timing attack, whether it is 1, 2, and very rarely 3 bases. The problem isn't lack of skill, but lack of depth in the play. Korean Protoss players are constantly aggressive--or, at the very least they are overly predictable. Puzzle, and he got rolled pretty much every single time in PvT everytime due to EMP lategame. MC as well, after his GSL March win, and had alot of success against against Terran, with Puma and Bomber. MC does Timing attacks in almost every game he plays. He is far from a Macro-Protoss. And Puzzle's PvT has never really impressed me. Maybe it's because he beat MMA with Dark Templar back in Code A and still almost managed to lose those games due to poor control and macro, but I just don't think he really understands the match-ups that well. But regardless, congrats on naming a single Korean Macro Protoss. Anyone who says "show me a macro protoss herp derp" doesn't really understand the game.... In late game situations terran has the ability to have a much more massive army than toss because they are running off of almost purely mules.. thats at least 30+ extra supply in army comp. Toss have always relied on timing pushes because they are the weakest macro race... You know, about a year ago people were saying that Terran couldn't compete in the late game and that's why you had BitByBit-type players going all-in game after game after game. EDIT: Also, really late game can't Protoss just build a strong Gateway army in approimately 5 seconds, and then with Chronoboost you can then supercharge all of your Gateways and create an even bigger army in no time at all? You had BitByBit going all-in and then he got weeded out and we never heard from him again. Yeah Terrans *totally* couldn't keep up with anyone. Or you could look at the Top Four for each GSL I said a year ago, you clearly didn't read my statement. And as far as last years GSL finals went, it was Fruitdealer, NesTea, and MC. None of them played Terran. The only Terrans to make it to the finals were  RainBOw, who was pretty cheesy, MarineKing who cheesed NesTea seven games in a row, and Rain, who at the time only cheesed. You either don't remember GSL a year ago or you failed to read my post. Good job.
Maybe you don't remember the GSL. Here were the final four in the first four GSLs, buddy:
GSL1- Three Terrans (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2010_TG_Sambo_Intel_Starcraft_II_Open_Season_1)
GSL2- Three Terrans (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2010_GOMTV_Starcraft_II_Open_Season_2#Map_Pool)
GSL3- Two Terrans (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_3)
GSL4- Three Terrans (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GSL_4)
As you can see, Terran was the most common race in the Final Four in the first four GSLs (and you bet it's that way right now too!). And, as I'm sure you can see, plenty of these Terrans weren't just cheesy Terrans (Jinro, MKP, etc.).
So please don't think that I didn't read your post or that I didn't know what I was talking about. "Good job."
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To the people complaining about infestors, if you look at top level play, snipe is the preferred ghost skill against zergs anwyay.
In fact, it's the preferred skill to use against templars that aren't in the middle of the protoss death ball.
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These aren't bad changes... and as a toss I'm not complaining... looking forward to see how this plays out.
But I really think the Terran being OP comes starts at tier 1 with marines roflstomping Z and P tier 1 after a certain number.
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Hooray! I basically go double forge in every matchup, so that's pleasant.
I'm curious as to why they did this, though. I'll be keeping an eye out for Blizzard's explanation. The EMP shrink makes sense though, I think a lot of people wanted that...
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Are people really complaining about the protoss changes?
You save 150/150 total lol
People complain that "OH IT CHANGES TIMINGS"
+1/+1 completely untouched
+2/+2 changed by 50/50. How long does it take to get 50/50 with 2 base? It's like 3 trips to each assimilator... So maybe like 7 seconds?
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On October 26 2011 12:06 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 12:01 cunningstunt wrote:On October 26 2011 11:54 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 26 2011 11:47 The Final Boss wrote:On October 26 2011 11:43 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On October 26 2011 11:38 locant wrote:On October 26 2011 11:24 lee365 wrote:
Well, after this patch it seems I'm going to all in every Protoss I play. If I can barely win a normal game now, after this patch I'm doomed. This. I played a tvp yesterday were I was up a base the whole game, up in upgrades, had perfect emp and still got rolled. Im either going to 6 rax, go back to the 1/1/1 or switch to protoss as this is horrible. I feel sorry for zergs now as they were already having a hard time Besides the fact that your post is hilarious bs, you want to switch from the strongest race to the weakest race? Or are you in Bronze-Silver where Protoss is actually the best? I'm a High Diamond Terran and to prove my friend wrong I practiced Protoss for a weekend and was able to play +50% winrate on my ladder account for about 15 games or so. Personally I thought it was pretty easy to switch to Protoss, and I barely lost in the late game (which happens to be what this patch is targeting to make easier). If the guy works on it I'm sure that he can play Protoss too without too much difficulty (now Zerg, I don't even want to try playing that, haha). Yo dawg, we heard you and locant like making up bullshit stories. You probably lost every game and nerdraged like crazy. Even if I switch to the master race Terran today, I highly doubt I'd be winning most of my games in Masters league. Please tell your silly stories to little kids that will fall for it. Sorry, but the stats say that Protoss is by far the weakest race, especially at Masters / GM / pro level, and suffer still in Diamond and Plat. If Protoss was anywhere near as good as you imply, there would be 20 Protoss in Code S, not 20 Terrans. I'll tell you a story that's actually true. Friend of mine was stuck in Gold as Protoss. Played everyday, couldn't get anywhere. He switches to Zerg, and within 1.5 months, he became Diamond. In another month or 2, he's Masters. And Zerg isn't even as powerful as Terran either. That's just the shitty state of Toss. lol Making up hilarious myths isn't going to get you laid bud, so I don't see why you try . People like you make me want to cry... the literary and physical mind of a total dick. Calling someone out for making up a ridiculously false story is being a dick? I fail to see how that correlates. Are you the kind of guy who like kolant says absolutely absurd things and claims them to be true, and then when someone doesn't believe you, you start raging and name calling? I'm just trying to get where you're coming from, because going by your logic, saying someone telling a story of how he rode a falcon and backflipped onto the Great Pyramid and jet skiied across the Atlantic ocean is lying, is being a dick. What?
I'm not sure how I can "prove" my story to you, but here's my StarCraft 2 accounts achievements:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/417763/1/sAviOrWeRRa/achievements/category/4325378
Please note that I have 12 Protoss wins in 1v1. That was me playing on my Diamond ladder after a weekend of practicing in Custom games with friends and random people. PvP was the match-up I struggled with the most, mainly because I didn't want to 4 Gate.
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On October 26 2011 12:04 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 11:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 26 2011 11:37 The Final Boss wrote:On October 26 2011 11:36 iLike413 wrote:On October 26 2011 11:30 The Final Boss wrote:On October 26 2011 11:25 ImmortalTofu wrote:On October 26 2011 11:22 The Final Boss wrote:
Now, for all the people talking about "Name a good Korean Protoss" or "Name a good Foreign Terran," I want everybody to try and name something for me. A Macro-Oriented Korean Protoss.
As far as Terrans go, you have players like TOP, TheStC, or Jjakji who consistently go for macro games. I can't think of a Korean Protoss player who looks for macro games often times in PvT, as they usually wind up doing some sort of timing attack, whether it is 1, 2, and very rarely 3 bases. The problem isn't lack of skill, but lack of depth in the play. Korean Protoss players are constantly aggressive--or, at the very least they are overly predictable. Puzzle, and he got rolled pretty much every single time in PvT everytime due to EMP lategame. MC as well, after his GSL March win, and had alot of success against against Terran, with Puma and Bomber. MC does Timing attacks in almost every game he plays. He is far from a Macro-Protoss. And Puzzle's PvT has never really impressed me. Maybe it's because he beat MMA with Dark Templar back in Code A and still almost managed to lose those games due to poor control and macro, but I just don't think he really understands the match-ups that well. But regardless, congrats on naming a single Korean Macro Protoss. Anyone who says "show me a macro protoss herp derp" doesn't really understand the game.... In late game situations terran has the ability to have a much more massive army than toss because they are running off of almost purely mules.. thats at least 30+ extra supply in army comp. Toss have always relied on timing pushes because they are the weakest macro race... You know, about a year ago people were saying that Terran couldn't compete in the late game and that's why you had BitByBit-type players going all-in game after game after game. EDIT: Also, really late game can't Protoss just build a strong Gateway army in approimately 5 seconds, and then with Chronoboost you can then supercharge all of your Gateways and create an even bigger army in no time at all? You had BitByBit going all-in and then he got weeded out and we never heard from him again. Yeah Terrans *totally* couldn't keep up with anyone. Or you could look at the Top Four for each GSL That's exactly what he was saying, you agreed with him. He was saying that a while ago, every Terran player was complaining that they had to all-in and that big maps would be disaster for them because they can't win in a long game, but then they learned to play better and are still raping everyone.
I was being sarcastic, hence the asterisks around the word "totally" (although perhaps the tone got lost). Plenty of Terran players who did very well early on in the GSLs (e.g. Jinro) weren't necessarily cheesy or all-innish, although I do recall that they complained about maps getting larger. They then got over it, rather than going all-in every game like BitByBit
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wow, just saw these :o. Guess the sad zealot can smile a little today...heh
oh and those ghosts can drain a little less of my infestors' energy xD
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EPT
