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On October 26 2011 09:38 Nightshake wrote:
I'm done now.
mordk you are completely out of arguments. I'm going to bed now, and I want to see how Terrans will deal with this patch.
poor puppy. Do you need a hug? (especially it's still in ptr, I don't see why you are crying already)
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On October 26 2011 09:38 dgdsg wrote:
Range-Upgrade for EMP pls. If a 2-3 Storm hit a Terran-Ball ...game over -.- qq
I really can't tell if you're trolling or just stupid, but please, think before you post.
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YESSSS!!!
I'm so happy im dancing!!! 
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On October 26 2011 09:40 ForeverSleep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:38 Nightshake wrote:
I'm done now.
mordk you are completely out of arguments. I'm going to bed now, and I want to see how Terrans will deal with this patch. poor puppy. Do you need a hug? (especially it's still in ptr, I don't see why you are crying already)
Crying about things in PTR is how they get changed.
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On October 26 2011 09:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:38 dgdsg wrote:
Range-Upgrade for EMP pls. If a 2-3 Storm hit a Terran-Ball ...game over -.- qq I really can't tell if you're trolling or just stupid, but please, think before you post.
I was just fucking around with the cloak comment. But, I think this guy is serious....
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On October 26 2011 09:40 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:38 Nightshake wrote:
I'm done now.
mordk you are completely out of arguments. I'm going to bed now, and I want to see how Terrans will deal with this patch. God... you really are annoying. Let's not say it does damage then, just to suit your trollish mind. It "brings protoss units closer to death, by a maximum of 100 shield points". Happy?................................................... This is really making me facepalm dude..... Really. I suppose that you also understand that unless your army is composed entirely of blink stalkers, you don't escape as protoss.
Funny, I'm not annoyed at all.
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On October 26 2011 09:33 below66 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:19 NuKedUFirst wrote:On October 26 2011 09:18 rpgalon wrote:
ghosts and templars
1- ghosts have more hp (it is fucking hard to snipe it with blink stalker or colossus before the emp)
2- ghosts have more movement speed (templars speed = battlecruiser speed)
3- ghosts can cloak
4- ghosts have more range with EMP (3 more "efective range" than feedback)
5- ghosts are not light or armored (like templars or infestors) they take extra damage only to archon
6- ghosts can fight back 10/+10 vs light
7- ghosts can be upgraded to start with 75 energy
8- ghosts takes 40s to build ( templar takes 5s + 44.4s to get energy = 49,4s and delay the warpgate by 45s)
9- ghosts don't need to research EMP, (storm cost 200/200 and takes 110s to research)
10-ghosts are unlocked with a tech lab (50/25/25s) + ghost academy (150/50/40s)= 200/75/65s, while templars "with no storm" you need twilight concil (150/100/50s) + templar archives (150/200/60s)= 300/300/110s; with storm is 500/500/220s
11-ghosts have 1 more sight range
EMP and Storm
1- EMP reveals cloack, storm does not
2- EMP can be used to remove energy of yours banshee/BC/thors, Storm can be used to kill the zealots that are trying to reach the kitting marine marauder ball.
3- EMP removes 100 energy
4- EMP minimun damage is 40 (sentry/templar) max is 100 (everything that does not come from gateway takes 100 dmg) it always does the full damage that it is suposed to do.
5- EMP radius is 2, storm is 1.5... 33% bigger radius than storm
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball
we are almost there!! Isn't the whole fucking point of 3 races is that they aren't exactly the same? Why should every race have the same caster. Stupid post. How is this post stupid? you gotta be trolling. He perfectly put into perspective how ridiculously powerful ghost is and how many advantages it has in the heat of the battle. EMP at 1.5 is a step in the right direction, but the ghost still has PLENTY of things that they can tinker with to balance them out. AND he left out how imbalanced snipe is(guessing he was trying to be nice).
I don't why snipe should even be nerfed. I feel like it is needed late game TvZ against broodlords, since vikings are just gonna get eaten alive by corruptors and FG. :o
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On October 26 2011 09:40 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:31 mordk wrote:On October 26 2011 09:28 aksfjh wrote:On October 26 2011 09:24 mordk wrote:On October 26 2011 09:15 Nightshake wrote:On October 26 2011 09:04 Snaphoo wrote:On October 26 2011 09:00 Nightshake wrote:On October 26 2011 08:54 The Final Boss wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This makes no sense whatsoever. Protoss already gets their upgrades faster with Chronoboost, now they cost less, and our spellcaster is weaker. Blizzard makes absolutely no sense. I really hope that they realize that this doesn't balance the game, it just makes Protoss even more ridiculously powerful.
Late game PvT is so strong with upgrades and High Templar already, in no way does it need a buff. Protoss players just need to rely less on Colossi to a-move to free wins and play more like HasuObs and utilize High Templar more. You basically have to go MMMGV against Protoss (at least to have a reliable composition), and High Templar destroy that even if you only land one of two good storms (which can be reliably achieved if you take precautions against Ghosts, something a lot of Protoss players neglect to do...) then you can easily destroy that army. Then, if you have better upgrades you roll through the army easily.
It seems that Blizzard only does their balance changes based on Korea (which would make sense), except that every Protoss player I watch does some sort of one or two base timing attack and they don't even look to play late game. MC and other Korean Protoss players will continue to go 6 Gate or 3 Gate Void Ray and this will not affect them at all. Then outside of Korea Protoss players will continue to dominate every Terran they meet.
If Blizzard is going to nerf EMP then they should also nerf radius of Storm and Fungal Growth.
Terran armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will always lose to Protoss armies. Protoss armies that are significantly behind in upgrades will sometimes lose depending on positioning and control. Now double forge and Colossi are going to destroy everything and High Templar are stronger too. Really there is no point in this whatsoever.
TL;DR: Korean Ts are good, Korean Ps are bad. Outside of Koreans, Ts do badly, outside of Koreans, Ps destroy. P doesn't need buffs, they need to play smarter, stop doing timing attacks, and rely more on well controlled High Templar than a-moving Colossi. These changes make no sense, I'm just going to 1-1-1 every Protoss I meet on ladder. I just...completely agree.... Watch some GSL on GomTvT instead of deciding that your experiences in Platinum should guide Blizz balancing decisions. I'm glad you feel qualified to judge how good Korean Ps are-- could it be, though, that you just need to learn to play better against Protoss and that in fact T has a balance advantage over P? I would trust the experience of GSL Code S results since GAME RELEASE with the exception of MC over that of the ladder experience of a random TL poster. mjwNshake 863 (master Terran) Milkshake 558 (master Protoss) Who said I was Platinum ? I have the right to agree to something. Please stop talking about leagues, it's stupid, especially witht he fact that I'm master with both races, so I think i can be quite objective. In face, PvT is quite balanced, but the metagame is just a huge disorder, where it's batlle between mass Ghosts/Vikings and mass Colossus/HT. Ghosts own HTs hard in almost any possible situation. The only way a HT can be more effective than a Ghost is if Protoss has sight advantage (which allows feedback) which is impossible because of scans killing observers easily. This is best seen in the only TSL3 game between MC and ThorZain on TDA. MC was playing masterfully, actually countering everything TZ did, yet he was starting to fall behind because of ghosts. Then TZ made a mistake with his ghosts, leaving them too close to the ramp at the exit of MC's natural. This allowed HTs to feedback safely, and won MC a crucial encounter. Without sight advantage, you cannot beat Ghosts. It's basically because Ghosts are faster, and considering AoE, EMP has the longer range, so they control the pace of the GvHT balance because of their micro advantage Man, if only Protoss had other units ghosts didn't counter so well, maybe a giant unit that had siege range and did a lot of damage, or another unit that requires a lot of DPS to kill, has much more life than shields, and can be massed easily... Oh well, guess ghosts are just too good without these units... LOL.... You understand the standard composition to counter colossi includes vikings too right? You understand that once ghosts shoot their EMP it doesn't matter if they die right? You realize you're stating ghosts are useless against colo when they actually deal 100 instant damage to them as well, while also hitting all units below them right? God... people can be so shortsighted... Maybe if there were units that could prevent vikings from getting too close to colossi. Some unit that did AoE damage at ~9 range, maybe with other units which are closer that can pick off stray vikings. Of course, it would be unfair if these units just rolled over whatever the Terran put out, but maybe if micro or positioning was required, it would be a useful composition... But I guess Blizz just wants Terran to win all the time! I'm really trying to think what unit Protoss has that can reliably zone out Vikings, has an AoE 9 Range attack? Help me out here.
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On October 26 2011 09:38 dgdsg wrote:
Range-Upgrade for EMP pls. If a 2-3 Storm hit a Terran-Ball ...game over -.- qq
I think ghosts need a range upgrade too.
Start off ghosts with a range that's shorter than high templar.
Then allow the Terran player to research Ocular Implants in the Ghost Academy (or Fusion Core?  ) that would give ghosts their usual "longer than high templar" range back.
May help with balance, both against high templar and against sniping Zerg units.
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On October 26 2011 09:38 Nightshake wrote:
I'm done now.
mordk you are completely out of arguments. I'm going to bed now, and I want to see how Terrans will deal with this patch.
They won't deal with it too well, because late game tvp is already a nightmare.
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I don't know how to put it any less bluntly, but all I see are a bunch of Terrans crying because their race won't be quite as OP anymore.
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On October 26 2011 09:34 jazzman wrote:Lets see what feedback can do: Instant kill: Banshee, medivac, ghost Deal 200 damage to Thor/BC Want to know why Terran only go bio vs P? Because every other unit is useless and a liability.
EMP your Thors/BCs.
Ghosts outrange HTs. Send one in to feedback as many as it can? Have 2 snipes.
Banshees are utterly useless except for harass or 1/1/1. They're rarely even used in large numbers in a macro game.
Medivacs I'll give you.
You overlook the fact that HTs are slow as hell and can be seen coming from a mile away. Send 3 or 4 units in to kill it, gg.
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On October 26 2011 09:37 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:30 nvs. wrote:On October 26 2011 09:27 Mehukannu wrote:On October 26 2011 09:18 nvs. wrote:On October 26 2011 09:17 Mehukannu wrote:On October 26 2011 09:11 nvs. wrote:On October 26 2011 09:10 Mehukannu wrote:On October 26 2011 09:04 nvs. wrote:On October 26 2011 09:03 biaxiong wrote:On October 26 2011 09:02 winthrop wrote:
what about psi storm?
Nerf already beta and amulet. 375 M and 375 Gas total savings, I would consider shield upgrades now. Ya, I forgot amulet too. Psi storm has already been nerfed to 1.5 and lost its energy upgrade. Let's leave it at that. Yeah, it's not like instant storm anywhere where you have pylon was any good at all... I never said it wasn't? Putting words into my mouth? Classic C- argumentation. Just felt that you were implying it. I don't even get why people even bring up the whole khaydarin amulet nerf, that thing was OP as crap. even blizzard wondered why they even let HT have it back when it was removed. Which Dustin answered to kennigit in the interview at blizzcon 2011. The point was that people keep saying Storm was never nerfed and needs to be nerfed if EMP is going to be, but they forget it has actually been nerfed 3 times already. Had nothing to do with how powerful warp-in storm was. Fair enough, but was storm nerfed 3 times? I thought it had been nerfed just 2 times (storm size and amulet) or am I just missing something? O.o Damage as well in early beta. That must be really early beta, because there is nothing about it in liquipedia. =D But now that I think about it, I guess there were that nerf too. Did it do like 100 damage over time? On the emp I always thought storm and emp had same radius glad that that they are both same now as it should, but still not sure about the cheaper ground weapons and armor upgrades. >_>
Storm dealt 80 damage at the start of the beta, there was no damage nerf during beta or release.
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On October 26 2011 09:43 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:38 dgdsg wrote:
Range-Upgrade for EMP pls. If a 2-3 Storm hit a Terran-Ball ...game over -.- qq I think ghosts need a range upgrade too. Start off ghosts with a range that's shorter than high templar. Then allow the Terran player to research Ocular Implants in the Ghost Academy (or Fusion Core? ) that would give ghosts their usual "longer than high templar" range back. May help with balance, both against high templar and against sniping Zerg units.
They should change the models after the upgrade. Like when marines get combat shield. Give ghosts fucking sunglasses or something. YEEEAAAAAAAAH
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Blizzard still isn't going to fix my graphics problem...maybe its just unlisted....or maybe i'll continue playing games were i feel like im playing a game from 1990 thats cool whatever blizzard.
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On October 26 2011 09:40 Nightshake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:38 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 26 2011 09:36 Nightshake wrote:On October 26 2011 09:35 ForeverSleep wrote:On October 26 2011 09:32 Nightshake wrote:On October 26 2011 09:31 mordk wrote:On October 26 2011 09:28 aksfjh wrote:On October 26 2011 09:24 mordk wrote:On October 26 2011 09:15 Nightshake wrote:On October 26 2011 09:04 Snaphoo wrote:
[quote]
Watch some GSL on GomTvT instead of deciding that your experiences in Platinum should guide Blizz balancing decisions.
I'm glad you feel qualified to judge how good Korean Ps are-- could it be, though, that you just need to learn to play better against Protoss and that in fact T has a balance advantage over P? I would trust the experience of GSL Code S results since GAME RELEASE with the exception of MC over that of the ladder experience of a random TL poster.
mjwNshake 863 (master Terran) Milkshake 558 (master Protoss) Who said I was Platinum ? I have the right to agree to something. Please stop talking about leagues, it's stupid, especially witht he fact that I'm master with both races, so I think i can be quite objective. In face, PvT is quite balanced, but the metagame is just a huge disorder, where it's batlle between mass Ghosts/Vikings and mass Colossus/HT. Ghosts own HTs hard in almost any possible situation. The only way a HT can be more effective than a Ghost is if Protoss has sight advantage (which allows feedback) which is impossible because of scans killing observers easily. This is best seen in the only TSL3 game between MC and ThorZain on TDA. MC was playing masterfully, actually countering everything TZ did, yet he was starting to fall behind because of ghosts. Then TZ made a mistake with his ghosts, leaving them too close to the ramp at the exit of MC's natural. This allowed HTs to feedback safely, and won MC a crucial encounter. Without sight advantage, you cannot beat Ghosts. It's basically because Ghosts are faster, and considering AoE, EMP has the longer range, so they control the pace of the GvHT balance because of their micro advantage Man, if only Protoss had other units ghosts didn't counter so well, maybe a giant unit that had siege range and did a lot of damage, or another unit that requires a lot of DPS to kill, has much more life than shields, and can be massed easily... Oh well, guess ghosts are just too good without these units... LOL.... You understand the standard composition to counter colossi includes vikings too right? You understand that once ghosts shoot their EMP it doesn't matter if they die right? You realize you're stating ghosts are useless against colo when they actually deal 100 instant damage to them as well, while also hitting all units below them right? God... people can be so shortsighted... Again, try to kill with Ghosts. so you make only ghosts every games? Something is wrong with your play, I think Ht can kil with Storm, as Ghosts can not. I think this i pretty easy to understand. so I should make only HTs every game? Is that your point? Maybe not. But, you can fucking kill a whole army with storm. I never kill an army with EMP, can you understand it ? Good night.
You can't kill an entire Terran army with Storm unless your opponent allows it to happen. At the moment Storm almost never even completes all 80 Damage to any section of the army, while EMP's 100 Effective damage goes off immediately.
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On October 26 2011 09:42 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 09:33 below66 wrote:On October 26 2011 09:19 NuKedUFirst wrote:On October 26 2011 09:18 rpgalon wrote:
ghosts and templars
1- ghosts have more hp (it is fucking hard to snipe it with blink stalker or colossus before the emp)
2- ghosts have more movement speed (templars speed = battlecruiser speed)
3- ghosts can cloak
4- ghosts have more range with EMP (3 more "efective range" than feedback)
5- ghosts are not light or armored (like templars or infestors) they take extra damage only to archon
6- ghosts can fight back 10/+10 vs light
7- ghosts can be upgraded to start with 75 energy
8- ghosts takes 40s to build ( templar takes 5s + 44.4s to get energy = 49,4s and delay the warpgate by 45s)
9- ghosts don't need to research EMP, (storm cost 200/200 and takes 110s to research)
10-ghosts are unlocked with a tech lab (50/25/25s) + ghost academy (150/50/40s)= 200/75/65s, while templars "with no storm" you need twilight concil (150/100/50s) + templar archives (150/200/60s)= 300/300/110s; with storm is 500/500/220s
11-ghosts have 1 more sight range
EMP and Storm
1- EMP reveals cloack, storm does not
2- EMP can be used to remove energy of yours banshee/BC/thors, Storm can be used to kill the zealots that are trying to reach the kitting marine marauder ball.
3- EMP removes 100 energy
4- EMP minimun damage is 40 (sentry/templar) max is 100 (everything that does not come from gateway takes 100 dmg) it always does the full damage that it is suposed to do.
5- EMP radius is 2, storm is 1.5... 33% bigger radius than storm
6- EMP can't be dodged after launch, when you see the EMP, it already did its job
7- EMP is instant, Storm takes 4 seconds to deal 80 dmg, it almost never do 80 dmg usually the kiting marine marauder ball
we are almost there!! Isn't the whole fucking point of 3 races is that they aren't exactly the same? Why should every race have the same caster. Stupid post. How is this post stupid? you gotta be trolling. He perfectly put into perspective how ridiculously powerful ghost is and how many advantages it has in the heat of the battle. EMP at 1.5 is a step in the right direction, but the ghost still has PLENTY of things that they can tinker with to balance them out. AND he left out how imbalanced snipe is(guessing he was trying to be nice). I don't why snipe should even be nerfed. I feel like it is needed late game TvZ against broodlords, since vikings are just gonna get eaten alive by corruptors and FG. :o
What's funny is that almost everyone thought ghosts / snipe in TvZ was complete garbage until recently... how quickly people's minds change.
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On October 26 2011 09:40 Arkless wrote:
Ughhhh, wrong way nerfing emp. If anything the should have had diminishing effects from the centre of the radius outwards. But instead, they nerf the radius of emp. Now making feedback castable before u can get off an emp...........
Sometimes blizzard......... I wonder.......
You sure about this? I'm pretty sure that ghosts' EMP still have a longer range than high templars' feedback...
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What some people don't get is that terran actually doesn't need the EMP to actually kill stuff, which a lot of them claim. Terran already has insane dps on stimmed marines and marauders. An EMP + stimmed bio is SICK damage, and protoss couldn't do shit about it in a proper way.
Getting rid of energy at an HT is the same as killing it when it comes to battles, not even mentioning the fact it halves the hp of pretty much every unit protoss has. I'd rather have a spell instant half the bio HP, than a feedback or storm.
And then I ain't even including the fact it has cloak, can nuke and does have a standard attack too.
It's a good change imo.
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On October 26 2011 09:44 DreamChaser wrote:
Blizzard still isn't going to fix my graphics problem...maybe its just unlisted....or maybe i'll continue playing games were i feel like im playing a game from 1990 thats cool whatever blizzard.
You're the only person I've ever heard complain. What is the problem?
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EPT
