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Why not just do something with the stalker? Give it some kind of extra attack for air only.
As a Terran, there is nothing more annoying then well controlled mutas, they just circle your base all day whilst the zerg expos and drones up like a mad man!
Everyone complains about hellions before the patch, mutas are no freaking different IMO... It's practically a flying fkn Hellion! Not only can it shoot ground, but air also!
If Blizzard thinks Mutas are OP, I 100% agree!
Playing as Terran, I am continously trying to defend my base and get my 3rd up. Whenever I try to leave my base... I can't because I either end up as me losing or it's a base trade at best. Then, once you do actually get to leave your base, your next worry is banelings! So you spend all this work to actually get the point where you can somewhat safely leave your base and then you need to worry about freaking banes!
Either nerf the muta, or give us other race a better unit to counter it. I think Blizzard giving us Terrans the battlehellion and Warhound is awesome and I cannot wait to start making butter out of the zerg race!
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Overpowered? ZvT no. ZvP. Maybe. Lets let the metagame develop more. Terran can deal with mutas far easier than toss. Mutas accidentally go over a bunch of stalkers, lose a few. Over stimmed marines? GG.
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On November 10 2011 14:13 ZorBa.G wrote:
Why not just do something with the stalker? Give it some kind of extra attack for air only.
As a Terran, there is nothing more annoying then well controlled mutas, they just circle your base all day whilst the zerg expos and drones up like a mad man!
Everyone complains about hellions before the patch, mutas are no freaking different IMO... It's practically a flying fkn Hellion! Not only can it shoot ground, but air also!
If Blizzard thinks Mutas are OP, I 100% agree!
Playing as Terran, I am continously trying to defend my base and get my 3rd up. Whenever I try to leave my base... I can't because I either end up as me losing or it's a base trade at best. Then, once you do actually get to leave your base, your next worry is banelings! So you spend all this work to actually get the point where you can somewhat safely leave your base and then you need to worry about freaking banes!
Either nerf the muta, or give us other race a better unit to counter it. I think Blizzard giving us Terrans the battlehellion and Warhound is awesome and I cannot wait to start making butter out of the zerg race!
Terran has the easiest time dealing with mutas.
Marines destroy them. Turrets are decent early, especially for taking your third before mutas are in large numbers. Adding a Thor in your main or expo is an incredible deterrent. Marines, however, are your bread and butter, and 6 marines hanging out in a base with a few turrets will shut down muta harass pretty well.
Mutas are not OP. There's too much knee-jerking going on with Blizzard and it has led to a number of nerfs that in retrospect were probably unwarranted.
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On November 10 2011 13:47 SWPIGWANG wrote:Show nested quote +Similarly, I think designing units SOLELY for the purpose of countering mutas is batshit retarded horrible design. Valkeries and Corsairs..... lol.....and how mutas made SC1 ZvZ what it is.... Its kinda funny the old problem is the new problem....
I was going to say this, but... this sums it up.
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On November 10 2011 14:31 Mjolnir wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 14:13 ZorBa.G wrote:
Why not just do something with the stalker? Give it some kind of extra attack for air only.
As a Terran, there is nothing more annoying then well controlled mutas, they just circle your base all day whilst the zerg expos and drones up like a mad man!
Everyone complains about hellions before the patch, mutas are no freaking different IMO... It's practically a flying fkn Hellion! Not only can it shoot ground, but air also!
If Blizzard thinks Mutas are OP, I 100% agree!
Playing as Terran, I am continously trying to defend my base and get my 3rd up. Whenever I try to leave my base... I can't because I either end up as me losing or it's a base trade at best. Then, once you do actually get to leave your base, your next worry is banelings! So you spend all this work to actually get the point where you can somewhat safely leave your base and then you need to worry about freaking banes!
Either nerf the muta, or give us other race a better unit to counter it. I think Blizzard giving us Terrans the battlehellion and Warhound is awesome and I cannot wait to start making butter out of the zerg race! Terran has the easiest time dealing with mutas. Marines destroy them. Turrets are decent early, especially for taking your third before mutas are in large numbers. Adding a Thor in your main or expo is an incredible deterrent. Marines, however, are your bread and butter, and 6 marines hanging out in a base with a few turrets will shut down muta harass pretty well. Mutas are not OP. There's too much knee-jerking going on with Blizzard and it has led to a number of nerfs that in retrospect were probably unwarranted.
6 marines aren't going to kill 30 mutas flying from base to base
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On November 10 2011 22:03 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 14:31 Mjolnir wrote:On November 10 2011 14:13 ZorBa.G wrote:
Why not just do something with the stalker? Give it some kind of extra attack for air only.
As a Terran, there is nothing more annoying then well controlled mutas, they just circle your base all day whilst the zerg expos and drones up like a mad man!
Everyone complains about hellions before the patch, mutas are no freaking different IMO... It's practically a flying fkn Hellion! Not only can it shoot ground, but air also!
If Blizzard thinks Mutas are OP, I 100% agree!
Playing as Terran, I am continously trying to defend my base and get my 3rd up. Whenever I try to leave my base... I can't because I either end up as me losing or it's a base trade at best. Then, once you do actually get to leave your base, your next worry is banelings! So you spend all this work to actually get the point where you can somewhat safely leave your base and then you need to worry about freaking banes!
Either nerf the muta, or give us other race a better unit to counter it. I think Blizzard giving us Terrans the battlehellion and Warhound is awesome and I cannot wait to start making butter out of the zerg race! Terran has the easiest time dealing with mutas. Marines destroy them. Turrets are decent early, especially for taking your third before mutas are in large numbers. Adding a Thor in your main or expo is an incredible deterrent. Marines, however, are your bread and butter, and 6 marines hanging out in a base with a few turrets will shut down muta harass pretty well. Mutas are not OP. There's too much knee-jerking going on with Blizzard and it has led to a number of nerfs that in retrospect were probably unwarranted. 6 marines aren't going to kill 30 mutas flying from base to base
you wan't marines (something extremely less expensive) to counter mutas at a 5 to 1 basis despite the mineral cost? Mutas cost what 100 minerals, and 100 gas, essentially 4 times the amount that marines do. Do people like you think before these comments are made? with combat shield and stim marines destroy mutas period. Adding in a medivac or two completely changes the dynamic. So lesson of the day? make 60 marines - you're supply equivalent. Not only can they defend a 3base very easily with turret help if two groups meet they'll destroy the mutas. God forbid you take into account turrets and thors.
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On November 10 2011 22:11 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 22:03 Blasterion wrote:On November 10 2011 14:31 Mjolnir wrote:On November 10 2011 14:13 ZorBa.G wrote:
Why not just do something with the stalker? Give it some kind of extra attack for air only.
As a Terran, there is nothing more annoying then well controlled mutas, they just circle your base all day whilst the zerg expos and drones up like a mad man!
Everyone complains about hellions before the patch, mutas are no freaking different IMO... It's practically a flying fkn Hellion! Not only can it shoot ground, but air also!
If Blizzard thinks Mutas are OP, I 100% agree!
Playing as Terran, I am continously trying to defend my base and get my 3rd up. Whenever I try to leave my base... I can't because I either end up as me losing or it's a base trade at best. Then, once you do actually get to leave your base, your next worry is banelings! So you spend all this work to actually get the point where you can somewhat safely leave your base and then you need to worry about freaking banes!
Either nerf the muta, or give us other race a better unit to counter it. I think Blizzard giving us Terrans the battlehellion and Warhound is awesome and I cannot wait to start making butter out of the zerg race! Terran has the easiest time dealing with mutas. Marines destroy them. Turrets are decent early, especially for taking your third before mutas are in large numbers. Adding a Thor in your main or expo is an incredible deterrent. Marines, however, are your bread and butter, and 6 marines hanging out in a base with a few turrets will shut down muta harass pretty well. Mutas are not OP. There's too much knee-jerking going on with Blizzard and it has led to a number of nerfs that in retrospect were probably unwarranted. 6 marines aren't going to kill 30 mutas flying from base to base you wan't marines (something extremely less expensive) to counter mutas at a 5 to 1 basis despite the mineral cost? Mutas cost what 100 minerals, and 100 gas, essentially 4 times the amount that marines do. Do people like you think before these comments are made? with combat shield and stim marines destroy mutas period. Adding in a medivac or two completely changes the dynamic. So lesson of the day? make 60 marines - you're supply equivalent. Not only can they defend a 3base very easily with turret help if two groups meet they'll destroy the mutas. God forbid you take into account turrets and thors.
Turrets and Thors are great deterents but they suck fighting muta death clouds, 60 marines aren't going to be at every base ready to defend mutas deathclouds that 1 shot turrets. The problem with mutas is that they scale exponentially with number and can be easily controlled in a large croup
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I won't say mass muta is OP but it kinda forces the game into a boring state. Espeically in ZvP, protoss can't really move out, cuz base race with muta = gg. Is ok in ZvT, since terran units are more effective against muta. Mass muta in ZvP in most cases will force protoss to stay their base for 90% of the time in the game. This is what blizzard don't really want to see in the esport scene, and commetator can't really talk much about it IMO. "Oh good muta micro".
Not sure what I say make sense but this is how I think about mass muta.
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Raven needs Irradiate back instead of HSM
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last time i checked fungal growth, thor/marine/raven, phoenix/archon/blink stalker do pretty well against muta.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On November 10 2011 22:25 Blasterion wrote:
Raven needs Irradiate back instead of HSM
Yeah, but then Viking clouds become an issue in TvT
On November 10 2011 22:29 canSore wrote:
last time i checked fungal growth, thor/marine/raven, phoenix/archon/blink stalker do pretty well against muta.
Sure fungals are great, as are Thors and Ravens, when the player isn't controlling their clouds right
Phoenixes require the opponent to not pay attention to be totally effective, and archons/blink are pretty much useless in the larger clouds, which is what people are talking about
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On November 10 2011 22:30 Hassybaby wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 22:25 Blasterion wrote:
Raven needs Irradiate back instead of HSM Yeah, but then Viking clouds become an issue in TvT Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 22:29 canSore wrote:
last time i checked fungal growth, thor/marine/raven, phoenix/archon/blink stalker do pretty well against muta. Sure fungals are great, as are Thors and Ravens, when the player isn't controlling their clouds right Phoenixes require the opponent to not pay attention to be totally effective, and archons/blink are pretty much useless in the larger clouds, which is what people are talking about
well I guess they can just make the HSM even faster, so it can catch up to mutas. So far it's the only spell that can be actually dodged, and compared to the energy cost it's not even that great
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On November 10 2011 22:17 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 22:11 Ace.Xile wrote:On November 10 2011 22:03 Blasterion wrote:On November 10 2011 14:31 Mjolnir wrote:On November 10 2011 14:13 ZorBa.G wrote:
Why not just do something with the stalker? Give it some kind of extra attack for air only.
As a Terran, there is nothing more annoying then well controlled mutas, they just circle your base all day whilst the zerg expos and drones up like a mad man!
Everyone complains about hellions before the patch, mutas are no freaking different IMO... It's practically a flying fkn Hellion! Not only can it shoot ground, but air also!
If Blizzard thinks Mutas are OP, I 100% agree!
Playing as Terran, I am continously trying to defend my base and get my 3rd up. Whenever I try to leave my base... I can't because I either end up as me losing or it's a base trade at best. Then, once you do actually get to leave your base, your next worry is banelings! So you spend all this work to actually get the point where you can somewhat safely leave your base and then you need to worry about freaking banes!
Either nerf the muta, or give us other race a better unit to counter it. I think Blizzard giving us Terrans the battlehellion and Warhound is awesome and I cannot wait to start making butter out of the zerg race! Terran has the easiest time dealing with mutas. Marines destroy them. Turrets are decent early, especially for taking your third before mutas are in large numbers. Adding a Thor in your main or expo is an incredible deterrent. Marines, however, are your bread and butter, and 6 marines hanging out in a base with a few turrets will shut down muta harass pretty well. Mutas are not OP. There's too much knee-jerking going on with Blizzard and it has led to a number of nerfs that in retrospect were probably unwarranted. 6 marines aren't going to kill 30 mutas flying from base to base you wan't marines (something extremely less expensive) to counter mutas at a 5 to 1 basis despite the mineral cost? Mutas cost what 100 minerals, and 100 gas, essentially 4 times the amount that marines do. Do people like you think before these comments are made? with combat shield and stim marines destroy mutas period. Adding in a medivac or two completely changes the dynamic. So lesson of the day? make 60 marines - you're supply equivalent. Not only can they defend a 3base very easily with turret help if two groups meet they'll destroy the mutas. God forbid you take into account turrets and thors. Turrets and Thors are great deterents but they suck fighting muta death clouds, 60 marines aren't going to be at every base ready to defend mutas deathclouds that 1 shot turrets. The problem with mutas is that they scale exponentially with number and can be easily controlled in a large croup
So mutas are to a degree... a lesser marine. Sounds fair imo. Zerg gets a unit that is really ONLY good at killing things that can't shoot up and harassing, which dies rather ridiculously in head on battles, short of good control in tank picking off with the muta/ling/bane style. Like the issues you claim that are the strengths of mutas are the strengths of marines. The only differences is that marines are significantly less costly, and can't fly. And in turn can actually fight in a straight up battle.
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On November 10 2011 22:29 canSore wrote:
last time i checked fungal growth, thor/marine/raven, phoenix/archon/blink stalker do pretty well against muta.
last time I checked raven and thor didn't flew at speed of light defending every single base you have and be able to helkp your army in case you are being attacked by the zerg main army.
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I'm a Protoss player and feel completely overwhelmed by the currently prevalent style of massing Mutas to hold Toss on 2 (or 3 if you're lucky) bases and instantly punish you if you ever leave your base. At the same time, I'd much rather Blizzard just left it alone for a few months. This wasn't the way ZvP was played half a year ago, and I doubt it's where the game will be in another half year. Some Toss will probably figure out the trick to make them just a bit less effective, and that will tip the balance back. It's not like Mutas are ravaging us, it's just that it's hard to force them into bad trades. A bit of a shift in the other direction and everything is good again. Just give us some time to figure it out instead of changing the rules of the game too rapidly.
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On November 10 2011 14:44 mlspmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 13:47 SWPIGWANG wrote:Similarly, I think designing units SOLELY for the purpose of countering mutas is batshit retarded horrible design. Valkeries and Corsairs..... lol.....and how mutas made SC1 ZvZ what it is.... Its kinda funny the old problem is the new problem.... I was going to say this, but... this sums it up.
yea valks arn't even really used because what T needed was a medic type unit since stim was good, but having no way to heal marines was terrible. Also science vessel makes the zerg switch out of mutas so no idea why the post even mention valks.Didn't marines also get a range upgrade in BW along with medics or was that always in SC/SC:BW?
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On November 10 2011 22:42 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 22:17 Blasterion wrote:On November 10 2011 22:11 Ace.Xile wrote:On November 10 2011 22:03 Blasterion wrote:On November 10 2011 14:31 Mjolnir wrote:On November 10 2011 14:13 ZorBa.G wrote:
Why not just do something with the stalker? Give it some kind of extra attack for air only.
As a Terran, there is nothing more annoying then well controlled mutas, they just circle your base all day whilst the zerg expos and drones up like a mad man!
Everyone complains about hellions before the patch, mutas are no freaking different IMO... It's practically a flying fkn Hellion! Not only can it shoot ground, but air also!
If Blizzard thinks Mutas are OP, I 100% agree!
Playing as Terran, I am continously trying to defend my base and get my 3rd up. Whenever I try to leave my base... I can't because I either end up as me losing or it's a base trade at best. Then, once you do actually get to leave your base, your next worry is banelings! So you spend all this work to actually get the point where you can somewhat safely leave your base and then you need to worry about freaking banes!
Either nerf the muta, or give us other race a better unit to counter it. I think Blizzard giving us Terrans the battlehellion and Warhound is awesome and I cannot wait to start making butter out of the zerg race! Terran has the easiest time dealing with mutas. Marines destroy them. Turrets are decent early, especially for taking your third before mutas are in large numbers. Adding a Thor in your main or expo is an incredible deterrent. Marines, however, are your bread and butter, and 6 marines hanging out in a base with a few turrets will shut down muta harass pretty well. Mutas are not OP. There's too much knee-jerking going on with Blizzard and it has led to a number of nerfs that in retrospect were probably unwarranted. 6 marines aren't going to kill 30 mutas flying from base to base you wan't marines (something extremely less expensive) to counter mutas at a 5 to 1 basis despite the mineral cost? Mutas cost what 100 minerals, and 100 gas, essentially 4 times the amount that marines do. Do people like you think before these comments are made? with combat shield and stim marines destroy mutas period. Adding in a medivac or two completely changes the dynamic. So lesson of the day? make 60 marines - you're supply equivalent. Not only can they defend a 3base very easily with turret help if two groups meet they'll destroy the mutas. God forbid you take into account turrets and thors. Turrets and Thors are great deterents but they suck fighting muta death clouds, 60 marines aren't going to be at every base ready to defend mutas deathclouds that 1 shot turrets. The problem with mutas is that they scale exponentially with number and can be easily controlled in a large croup So mutas are to a degree... a lesser marine. Sounds fair imo. Zerg gets a unit that is really ONLY good at killing things that can't shoot up and harassing, which dies rather ridiculously in head on battles, short of good control in tank picking off with the muta/ling/bane style. Like the issues you claim that are the strengths of mutas are the strengths of marines. The only differences is that marines are significantly less costly, and can't fly. And in turn can actually fight in a straight up battle.
The Flying part is pretty important, and also movement speed. and Chain attack. Mostly because they can attack X and Y are fast/flying and can be massed
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On November 10 2011 22:17 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 22:11 Ace.Xile wrote:On November 10 2011 22:03 Blasterion wrote:On November 10 2011 14:31 Mjolnir wrote:On November 10 2011 14:13 ZorBa.G wrote:
Why not just do something with the stalker? Give it some kind of extra attack for air only.
As a Terran, there is nothing more annoying then well controlled mutas, they just circle your base all day whilst the zerg expos and drones up like a mad man!
Everyone complains about hellions before the patch, mutas are no freaking different IMO... It's practically a flying fkn Hellion! Not only can it shoot ground, but air also!
If Blizzard thinks Mutas are OP, I 100% agree!
Playing as Terran, I am continously trying to defend my base and get my 3rd up. Whenever I try to leave my base... I can't because I either end up as me losing or it's a base trade at best. Then, once you do actually get to leave your base, your next worry is banelings! So you spend all this work to actually get the point where you can somewhat safely leave your base and then you need to worry about freaking banes!
Either nerf the muta, or give us other race a better unit to counter it. I think Blizzard giving us Terrans the battlehellion and Warhound is awesome and I cannot wait to start making butter out of the zerg race! Terran has the easiest time dealing with mutas. Marines destroy them. Turrets are decent early, especially for taking your third before mutas are in large numbers. Adding a Thor in your main or expo is an incredible deterrent. Marines, however, are your bread and butter, and 6 marines hanging out in a base with a few turrets will shut down muta harass pretty well. Mutas are not OP. There's too much knee-jerking going on with Blizzard and it has led to a number of nerfs that in retrospect were probably unwarranted. 6 marines aren't going to kill 30 mutas flying from base to base you wan't marines (something extremely less expensive) to counter mutas at a 5 to 1 basis despite the mineral cost? Mutas cost what 100 minerals, and 100 gas, essentially 4 times the amount that marines do. Do people like you think before these comments are made? with combat shield and stim marines destroy mutas period. Adding in a medivac or two completely changes the dynamic. So lesson of the day? make 60 marines - you're supply equivalent. Not only can they defend a 3base very easily with turret help if two groups meet they'll destroy the mutas. God forbid you take into account turrets and thors. Turrets and Thors are great deterents but they suck fighting muta death clouds, 60 marines aren't going to be at every base ready to defend mutas deathclouds that 1 shot turrets. The problem with mutas is that they scale exponentially with number and can be easily controlled in a large croup
no way do you need 60 marines per base..hell a thor + some marines or like 10 marines + medivac w/good upgrades will easily scare a cloud of mutas at least long enough for your army to get there. I mean if they get a huge number like 40 then that could be a problem, but T should be able to deal with mutas really easily.
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On November 10 2011 22:58 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 22:17 Blasterion wrote:On November 10 2011 22:11 Ace.Xile wrote:On November 10 2011 22:03 Blasterion wrote:On November 10 2011 14:31 Mjolnir wrote:On November 10 2011 14:13 ZorBa.G wrote:
Why not just do something with the stalker? Give it some kind of extra attack for air only.
As a Terran, there is nothing more annoying then well controlled mutas, they just circle your base all day whilst the zerg expos and drones up like a mad man!
Everyone complains about hellions before the patch, mutas are no freaking different IMO... It's practically a flying fkn Hellion! Not only can it shoot ground, but air also!
If Blizzard thinks Mutas are OP, I 100% agree!
Playing as Terran, I am continously trying to defend my base and get my 3rd up. Whenever I try to leave my base... I can't because I either end up as me losing or it's a base trade at best. Then, once you do actually get to leave your base, your next worry is banelings! So you spend all this work to actually get the point where you can somewhat safely leave your base and then you need to worry about freaking banes!
Either nerf the muta, or give us other race a better unit to counter it. I think Blizzard giving us Terrans the battlehellion and Warhound is awesome and I cannot wait to start making butter out of the zerg race! Terran has the easiest time dealing with mutas. Marines destroy them. Turrets are decent early, especially for taking your third before mutas are in large numbers. Adding a Thor in your main or expo is an incredible deterrent. Marines, however, are your bread and butter, and 6 marines hanging out in a base with a few turrets will shut down muta harass pretty well. Mutas are not OP. There's too much knee-jerking going on with Blizzard and it has led to a number of nerfs that in retrospect were probably unwarranted. 6 marines aren't going to kill 30 mutas flying from base to base you wan't marines (something extremely less expensive) to counter mutas at a 5 to 1 basis despite the mineral cost? Mutas cost what 100 minerals, and 100 gas, essentially 4 times the amount that marines do. Do people like you think before these comments are made? with combat shield and stim marines destroy mutas period. Adding in a medivac or two completely changes the dynamic. So lesson of the day? make 60 marines - you're supply equivalent. Not only can they defend a 3base very easily with turret help if two groups meet they'll destroy the mutas. God forbid you take into account turrets and thors. Turrets and Thors are great deterents but they suck fighting muta death clouds, 60 marines aren't going to be at every base ready to defend mutas deathclouds that 1 shot turrets. The problem with mutas is that they scale exponentially with number and can be easily controlled in a large croup no way do you need 60 marines per base..hell a thor + some marines or like 10 marines + medivac w/good upgrades will easily scare a cloud of mutas at least long enough for your army to get there. I mean if they get a huge number like 40 then that could be a problem, but T should be able to deal with mutas really easily.
a thor and 10 marines is 16x2 Assuming you are on 3 bases since your main army can defend 1 expo, 32 supply of units. that's not apart of your main army, now if that army gets attacked by the zerg with everything, muta included. you just lost the game the thing is you don't know when or where the mutas will fly in.
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The simple problem with protoss and mutalisks as opposed to terran is that, turrets plus one thor can defend a base.
The protoss army moves in a ball. If toss army is out of position you have no efficient way of defending mutalisks harass. You may very well loses your nexus...this usually forces a lot of base trades. And really even in BW protoss had a similar problem with mutalisks. The biggest difference was dragoons and storm and archons did a lot more damage than in SC2. So mass muta is a huge balance problem for SC2 protoss.
Turrets/thors are better than cannons in that they can also be repaired by SCVs.
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EPT
