EPTOh, and does anyone know if Shredders only damage bio units? I saw a video that says it does radiation damage. So will it work against other types of units? I would assume it does since Probes are non-bio.
[P]New Units, Abilities, Evolutions, & Removals - Page 8
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Oh, and does anyone know if Shredders only damage bio units? I saw a video that says it does radiation damage. So will it work against other types of units? I would assume it does since Probes are non-bio. | ||
|
nShade
Bulgaria296 Posts
Imagine lategame medivac harass by terran. Imagine all the probes from 1 base being recalled to a different nexus. Instead of warping in units, recall a group to deffend from harrass. Take a hidden base-----> Recall workers to it, instead of risking a long travel b/n the entire map, with transfering probes. Sniping 3rd bases as protoss then recalling. Blink harrass---->recall back to town, when it gets too hot and can't escape. Proxy Nexus at the middle of the map, to serve as a recall beacon. So many options will be open! | ||
|
Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
Fact is that calling the Replicant lame and gimmicky might be fun to do now, but how can you be sure that players won't come up with a million and one clever uses of it? To me this unit has a lot of potential for outthinking your opponent and in any case, until you see it in use you won't be able to get a good feel for it. Why outright say you dislike it then? Similarly for the shredder. I keep being surprised this concept is universally disliked. It's quite similar to spidermines and gives you board control that is always thought to be such a beloved concept. Was that just a vocal minority and do we really just want more attack-move units? There's positive reception of battle-hellion, goliath, tempest, swarm host -- it's notable that except for the viper basically all the units that can be used in a straight-up fight are rated highly, while the more tricky units (that require you to see them in action first) are rated badly. What I think is that Blizzard does 'get it', but they might have a shallow understanding of what 'it' means. Take micro, if they come up with cool micro mechanics they're certainly not going to go out of their way to remove it and of course they'll be happy with it. However, if they don't have a really strong understanding of micro then if there's ever a trade-off between micro-ability and something else, it can become harder to argue for. Now Starcraft II has two design constraints that influence this a lot: 1) they want the game to be playable by casuals, therefore maps must be small and filled with rocks, races must have armies that you can attack-move across the map. 2) they want it to be playable on higher latency and for people that have worse computers. Both of those ensure that you can't have the super-responsive and intricate mutalisk micro that you saw in Brood War. Instead there will be units like the shredder: you can set them up beforehand if you're not a fast player, but they have also uses for faster players. I think if you err too much on always having multiple, 'casual' uses for every unit you have the chance to miss out on some potential though. That said, it's still very much possible to create cool and responsive micro. (marine vs baneling) If Starcraft Ii as a spectator activity becomes profitable and widespread enough then Blizzard also might think there is more of a market in just making the game fun to watch instead of fun to play. (and the former translates to fun to play for more competitively minded players -- even if Blizzard really just has to create better game modes for casuals if they want to keep their interest) Another issue with Blizzard developing this expansion is someone like David Kim: he approaches new unit design from the perspective of 'holes in WoL that need filling up'. It's a complete insider's perspective where you can only try to augment the existing structure, not replace it. I hope they mostly keep him far away from the design process and just let him work on balancing the units the actual designers come up with. | ||
|
4of8
Germany256 Posts
I would like the Tempest if there wasn't the removal of the carrier. Basicly the only thing I really like about the Protoss changes are the Nexus Upgrades. I don't like the way they are going with Protoss, so I don't think I will play them in the future, at least not with these new concepts. In general I think they are making to much changes and I think this will result in a lot balance problems so either we will have to wait longer on HOTS or in the first couple of months after the release there will be lots of whine. | ||
|
TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
* Viper's grab? Sure the animation looks like shit right now, but it's such an awesome skill! * Replicant? Yeah it might be tough to balance, but at worst it will end up being a situational unit. I think it looks really bleeding cool. So why the hate? Biggest personal gripe... The new thor - I don't want a fantasy super unit! The races are founded on the ideals of quantity (zerg), quality (protoss), and versatility (terran). If anybody has a fantasy super unit that you can only build one of, it's PROTOSS. If you're going to remove the mothership, I say you should replace it with a fantasy super version of the Carrier! That would probably please the people who wanted the Carrier to be reworked instead of removed. And then the thor can be removed if the warhound is that much better. But seriously, a super Thor doesn't feel like Terran Most excited about... The new Zerg units! I'm a Terran player in case you didn't notice, but the Viper just looks soooo sweet, kinda like a flying defiler, and the spells will be so good it'll change a lot of the gameplay. Also, the ability to siege with Swarm Host (you know, assuming it's balanced right) will be a ton of fun. Also, I can't wait to replicate a cloaked banshee while playing as Toss. Overall... super psyched | ||
|
Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On October 24 2011 07:55 TheRealPaciFist wrote: Why so much hate for... * Viper's grab? Sure the animation looks like shit right now, but it's such an awesome skill! * Replicant? Yeah it might be tough to balance, but at worst it will end up being a situational unit. I think it looks really bleeding cool. So why the hate? Biggest personal gripe... The new thor - I don't want a fantasy super unit! The races are founded on the ideals of quantity (zerg), quality (protoss), and versatility (terran). If anybody has a fantasy super unit that you can only build one of, it's PROTOSS. If you're going to remove the mothership, I say you should replace it with a fantasy super version of the Carrier! That would probably please the people who wanted the Carrier to be reworked instead of removed. And then the thor can be removed if the warhound is that much better. But seriously, a super Thor doesn't feel like Terran Most excited about... The new Zerg units! I'm a Terran player in case you didn't notice, but the Viper just looks soooo sweet, kinda like a flying defiler, and the spells will be so good it'll change a lot of the gameplay. Also, the ability to siege with Swarm Host (you know, assuming it's balanced right) will be a ton of fun. Also, I can't wait to replicate a cloaked banshee while playing as Toss. I think they saud that they want the Thor to be a unit that low league players can have fun with in team games, but will balance it in a way that pros will hardly ever use it. About the banshee, even if the copied banshee didn't have cloak, the replicate will have (as the replicator currently works). | ||
|
Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On October 24 2011 07:58 Sandermatt wrote: I think they saud that they want the Thor to be a unit that low league players can have fun with in team games, but will balance it in a way that pros will hardly ever use it. About the banshee, even if the copied banshee didn't have cloak, the replicate will have (as the replicator currently works). I'm really hoping it works on friendly units, too. Researching storm is too mainstream. >_> | ||
|
Techno
1900 Posts
| ||
|
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
| ||
|
Utinni
Canada1196 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:09 Sufficiency wrote: The Hydra Speed thing seem like a slap on the face. Basically Blizzard intentionally removed it in vanilla so it could be readded in the expansion for $$$ No, it would be OP to have a hydra the same way it was in BW... It was for balance. | ||
|
Jacobs Ladder
United States1705 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:04 Techno wrote: I would really love to have a 1 on 1, real life argument with someone saying the new Protoss units are weak or they dont like them. I love the Tempest, I think the Oracle will be used more for breaking front lines then harassing, and I think the Replecant is a silly gimmick which will be useful in very special situations but generally useless. | ||
|
blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
On October 24 2011 07:51 nShade wrote: The best and biggest change for protoss in HotS, imo, is the Nexus Recall ability. Imagine lategame medivac harass by terran. Imagine all the probes from 1 base being recalled to a different nexus. Instead of warping in units, recall a group to deffend from harrass. Take a hidden base-----> Recall workers to it, instead of risking a long travel b/n the entire map, with transfering probes. Sniping 3rd bases as protoss then recalling. Blink harrass---->recall back to town, when it gets too hot and can't escape. Proxy Nexus at the middle of the map, to serve as a recall beacon. So many options will be open! Yeah, a lot of options. Taking sneaky expansions and recalling your probes there and back again when it's noticed would be awesome. Same with the replicant. About to get a 1-1-1 push in your face? Replicate a siege tank and get a defenders advantage. I do believe these two mechanics are so swingy it's going to get nerfed to hell and back again or plainly removed. If they manage to balance the game with them in I am going to get impressed. | ||
|
TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
Don't worry, I did too at first. I think that copying infestors in PvZ is gonna be HUGE. Seriously, infestors are good in ZvP, but they're even BETTER in PvZ. Beyond that, the first siege tank you copy actually is cost efficient due to getting the siege tank research along with the unit, so that first tank with siege mode of yours (the protoss) cost 200/200 while thiers (the terran's) cost 150/125 + 100/100. So that's something to consider. I do think that the cost of replicants for infestors in PvZ is worth it. The change that I'm most displeased about is Arc Shield. I heard the name and thought aha! THIS must be how they're finally fixing early game PvP... but no, only matters with light units... so I really don't see why it was necessary. | ||
|
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
making the game more like BW. But i dont know if zerg would be still able to deal with Ghost/Mech, cause the new zerg units don seem to be too helpful. And the Protoss units are just stupid. | ||
|
Qikz
United Kingdom12024 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:17 Paljas wrote: I really like the terran units, which are making mech viable in TvP and making the game more like BW. But i dont know if zerg would be still able to deal with Ghost/Mech, cause the new zerg units don seem to be too helpful. And the Protoss units are just stupid. Viper pull away siege tanks 1 by 1 or use that cloud thing to rush the siege tanks. Infact, the viper is going to be amazing! :o | ||
|
haitike
Spain2723 Posts
More micro is always better. | ||
|
Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
On October 24 2011 07:51 nShade wrote: The best and biggest change for protoss in HotS, imo, is the Nexus Recall ability. Imagine lategame medivac harass by terran. Imagine all the probes from 1 base being recalled to a different nexus. Instead of warping in units, recall a group to deffend from harrass. Take a hidden base-----> Recall workers to it, instead of risking a long travel b/n the entire map, with transfering probes. Sniping 3rd bases as protoss then recalling. Blink harrass---->recall back to town, when it gets too hot and can't escape. Proxy Nexus at the middle of the map, to serve as a recall beacon. So many options will be open! Recall is by far the biggest protoss change, especially considering how terrible the new units are. But I just don't see it happening, I don't think Blizzard will just give us mass recall at 75 energy cost, unlimited usage. It sounds OP as hell | ||
|
docvoc
United States5491 Posts
| ||
|
Qikz
United Kingdom12024 Posts
| ||
|
Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:34 Jakkerr wrote: Recall is by far the biggest protoss change, especially considering how terrible the new units are. But I just don't see it happening, I don't think Blizzard will just give us mass recall at 75 energy cost, unlimited usage. It sounds OP as hell Radius seems really small, though. It was about a hex wider than a colossus in the video shown. | ||
| ||
