|
On October 23 2011 10:33 UmiNotsuki wrote:
I'm actually very very disappointed in the swarm host, as a Zerg player. In my opinion, it needs one of these things to actually merit use:
1. Much faster rate of fire.
2. Much scarier units spawned
3. Units don't time out for a long enough time to allow a few rounds of them to exist concurrently if the swarm host sits around making them long enough.
4. Units spawned move much faster (broodling speed, maybe.)
It seems the use against Terran is extremely heavily dependent on causing friendly fire splash from siege tanks, forcing them to unsiege and thus allowing Zerg to break the position. That's all fine and dandy, but what about against Protoss? Since all mid-late game Protoss armies waltz around with an observer and lack any autocast friendly fire abilities, I very much expect swarm hosts to be as uncommon in ZvP as hydras currently are in ZvT.
I was talking about this with my friend. Swarm Host really needs to spawn more units at a faster rate. The way it is now it simply suicidal buff Zerg Lings. May be it should spawn suicide units without splash.
|
So... Sorry for being P-biased but I have to ask - since David Kim himself pointed out P is having some issues lately...
T are getting an alternative use for hellions + new useful units on the cost of the thor - being a rarer (yet stronger) superunit
Z are getting more very versatile units
P are getting 2 gimmicky units and the tempest - while losing carrier and mothership.
Anything released about T and Z losing units? 'Cuz honestly this is David Kim (again) saying one thing - but doing the opposite
|
On October 23 2011 10:08 DARKHYDRA wrote:
Battle helion: essentially a firebat, why not just bring back the firebat then?
Shredder: some form of static defense that doesn't require units. +1 for me.
Warhound: cosmetically scv + roids lol. Closer to what the goliath was so I like it and I like the bonus to mech but I think air splash is over kill.
Viper: I like the spell that reduces range... that's about it.
Swarm host: worst of the new units IMO, the spawns themselves are not an attack like the broodlords so there's a chance that they will just get melted by an army before they do anything, zerg still lacks ranged splash(non-spell) and still not a true cloacked attacker, this is essentially infested terrans on auto cast.
Tempest: I think they should've worked on carriers, this unit seems ok but the carrier was a classic.
Replicant: not sure about this unit.
Oracle: the mineral forcefield looks annoying but the stasis for static defense could be a headache
The reason that the Warhound is replacing the Thor as the primary mech ground to air unit is because that role for the Thor never really fit the unit.
The Thor right now is really only useful as an AA unit, and in that role it sort of sucks because it's really slow and really clunky. Magic Boxing is only possible because of the ridiculous unit model it has.
With the Warhound, Mech will be a little more mobile, and AA will be a little better. Also the Warhound has the added benefit of helping to break siege tank lines in TvT which will open up that match up in the late game a bit.
The new Thor is just going to be what Blizz wanted it to be from the beginning. A super late tech, beefy mech unit with lots of damage and tanking potential. It doesn't have AA capability anymore.
They're making mech much more dynamic and fun to play with these changes. I love them.
|
heres a suggestion. Maybe the replicant... morphs into a more advanced and cooler version of whatever its changing into... like a super ghost or super tank with 15 range.
Just kidding get rid of it please blizzard give us a protoss unit.
|
The warhound is just silly looking.. why not just put the Goliath back in.. give it air splash.
|
On October 23 2011 10:36 Mentalizor wrote:
So... Sorry for being P-biased but I have to ask - since David Kim himself pointed out P is having some issues lately...
T are getting an alternative use for hellions + new useful units on the cost of the thor - being a rarer (yet stronger) superunit
Z are getting more very versatile units
P are getting 2 gimmicky units and the tempest - while losing carrier and mothership.
Anything released about T and Z losing units? 'Cuz honestly this is David Kim (again) saying one thing - but doing the opposite
The overseer is leaving because it was a lame unit idea from the beginning. You can't make a caster that has both 0 population requirement and has good spells.
The Corruptor is getting a new ability that will hopefully make it more multi-dimensional. They're doing this rather than outright removing it like they were talking about before.
The Carrier and Mothership are leaving because no one uses them and they can't really find a use for them. The Mothership's Mass recall is being moved to the nexus (an AWESOME change just btw.) And the tempest is an overall better unit than the carrier.
The only thing really being removed here is the mass cloaking field the mothership provided, and to be honest that was never really a big deal to begin with in the super late game, as well as the vortex ability which was never really much good to begin with either.
I'd love for them to edit the Mothership, give it some new abilities and keep it in because I think Protoss having a super unit is a good idea, but as it is right now it's neither extremely helpful nor a particularly fun unit to use.
|
On October 23 2011 10:41 winsause wrote:
The warhound is just silly looking.. why not just put the Goliath back in.. give it air splash.
i personally like the way the Warhound looks. Art is subjective.
|
Is it me or the swarm thing looks horridly underpowered? what the hell, in the video they burrow like 10 of them, and every 5 minutes, it spews some tiny hydralisks. Is it me or does it seem like it would be freakingly useless against stimmed marines? the locusts are soooo slow, for sure if the swarm lord is to do its true purpose locusts should have some sort of explosive damage when it dies a la baneling. That would for sure break siege lines, and for sure freak out a protoss deathball. Right now its just a gimmicky unit..
|
On October 23 2011 10:43 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Is it me or the swarm thing looks horridly underpowered? what the hell, in the video they burrow like 10 of them, and every 5 minutes, it spews some tiny hydralisks. Is it me or does it seem like it would be freakingly useless against stimmed marines? the locusts are soooo slow, for sure if the swarm lord is to do its true purpose it should have some sort of explosive damage when it dies a la baneling. That would for sure break siege lines, and for sure freak out a protoss deathball. Right now its just a gimmicky unit..
It isn't meant for killing stimmed marines, it's meant to break a turtling Terran or Turtling Protoss.
You're trying to use it the way Siege Tanks are used and it's not really for that. Zerg already has plenty of splash damage and is gaining a new ability on the viper specifically designed for helping to kill marines.
It'll be a good defensive unit, and a good unit for sieging up bases.
|
Interesting, seems like people have the opposite reaction to mine regarding the units. At least we can agree that they do nothing to fix Protoss' core problem.
Incidentally, if the Replicant can unmorph from whatever unit they turned into after use, then that would actually be quite versatile, you can turn them into whatever unit you need at that moment, then turn it back into a Replicant in case you need to turn it into something else later.
|
On October 23 2011 10:45 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:43 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Is it me or the swarm thing looks horridly underpowered? what the hell, in the video they burrow like 10 of them, and every 5 minutes, it spews some tiny hydralisks. Is it me or does it seem like it would be freakingly useless against stimmed marines? the locusts are soooo slow, for sure if the swarm lord is to do its true purpose it should have some sort of explosive damage when it dies a la baneling. That would for sure break siege lines, and for sure freak out a protoss deathball. Right now its just a gimmicky unit.. It isn't meant for killing stimmed marines, it's meant to break a turtling Terran or Turtling Protoss. You're trying to use it the way Siege Tanks are used and it's not really for that. Zerg already has plenty of splash damage and is gaining a new ability on the viper specifically designed for helping to kill marines. It'll be a good defensive unit, and a good unit for sieging up bases.
It still seems like the only use it would have is against tanks because THEY deal the splash damage. How about protoss deathballs? you just forcefield the little buggers and lol over the swarm lords.
It needs something to deter people from moving into an area. Little hydralisks every 5 minutes just isnt enough. In the demostration video the little hydras kill 1 bunker in the duration of the whole video. Have you seen the other demostration videos? the terran units pretty much f0ck up masses of units they engage...
|
so the proud warriors, unable to battle their enemies no more, decide it's time to copy their enemies' warriors because they can't find another way to fight them? really? that doesn't sound very protoss minded, if you ask me...
|
On October 23 2011 10:48 TheBlueMeaner wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:45 Vindicare605 wrote:On October 23 2011 10:43 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
Is it me or the swarm thing looks horridly underpowered? what the hell, in the video they burrow like 10 of them, and every 5 minutes, it spews some tiny hydralisks. Is it me or does it seem like it would be freakingly useless against stimmed marines? the locusts are soooo slow, for sure if the swarm lord is to do its true purpose it should have some sort of explosive damage when it dies a la baneling. That would for sure break siege lines, and for sure freak out a protoss deathball. Right now its just a gimmicky unit.. It isn't meant for killing stimmed marines, it's meant to break a turtling Terran or Turtling Protoss. You're trying to use it the way Siege Tanks are used and it's not really for that. Zerg already has plenty of splash damage and is gaining a new ability on the viper specifically designed for helping to kill marines. It'll be a good defensive unit, and a good unit for sieging up bases. It still seems like the only use it would have is against tanks because THEY deal the splash damage. How about protoss deathballs? you just forcefield the little buggers and lol over the swarm lords. It needs something to deter people from moving into an area. Little hydralisks every 5 minutes just isnt enough. In the demostration video the little hydras kill 1 bunker in the duration of the whole video. Have you seen the other demostration videos? the terran units pretty much f0ck up masses of units they engage...
First of all. Demonstration videos are specifically designed to make the unit look good. We don't know exactly how well each of these units are going to perform yet, the game isn't even in beta yet. Basing ANYTHING off the demonstration videos is akin to pure theorycrafting.
That said.
The Swarm Host to me seems like a ground version of a Brood Lord. It's useful for all the same reasons the Broodlord is useful for but doesn't have the disadvantage of being able to be picked off by Vikings or Void Rays.
Its a very nice counter for Siege Tanks whos targetting AI gets bugged out by the damn things and also provides probably a midgame alternative to broodlords for a turtling player that a Zerg can't break.
It's a Siege Unit that doesn't require Spire Tech to use, and isn't countered by Anti Air units, since one of the most difficult things to do as a Zerg player is to actually breach fortified positions I can't see why this unit combined with possibly the Viper doesn't excite you.
|
On October 23 2011 10:36 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:33 UmiNotsuki wrote:
I'm actually very very disappointed in the swarm host, as a Zerg player. In my opinion, it needs one of these things to actually merit use:
1. Much faster rate of fire.
2. Much scarier units spawned
3. Units don't time out for a long enough time to allow a few rounds of them to exist concurrently if the swarm host sits around making them long enough.
4. Units spawned move much faster (broodling speed, maybe.)
It seems the use against Terran is extremely heavily dependent on causing friendly fire splash from siege tanks, forcing them to unsiege and thus allowing Zerg to break the position. That's all fine and dandy, but what about against Protoss? Since all mid-late game Protoss armies waltz around with an observer and lack any autocast friendly fire abilities, I very much expect swarm hosts to be as uncommon in ZvP as hydras currently are in ZvT. I was talking about this with my friend. Swarm Host really needs to spawn more units at a faster rate. The way it is now it simply suicidal buff Zerg Lings. May be it should spawn suicide units without splash.
How about, instead of the locust spawning at the location of the Swarm Host, they spawn about 6 range away from the Swarm Host, and they move a bit faster than they do now. That way a lower spawn rate, like 5 seconds instead of 15 seconds, would feel more natural - and the unit would be far more useful.
either way, seems like a pretty neat unit
|
plz don't make me copy other races' units 
|
I like the tempest the least of the protoss units, it is more like a unit that would be in warcraft 3, big area of effect attack, no skill needed to use (then again the colossus is like that too).
The replicator seems like a really cool unit because of the variability it offers but it seems weird to copy another race's unit.
I don't play protoss but I'm curious as to why the protosses don't think these units will help their race, protoss gains air superiority, and they have more options for special tactics. And I've seen reports from progamers who like the new units for toss.
|
not sure really idea seem kwl, some seem abit op. will be good to see them in action w/e beta comes. Love the mineral force field idea tho
|
I do agree with a lot of the sentiment in this thread.
A unit that copies other units just seems like a cop out. Even if it is incredibly powerful it's still nowhere near as exciting as a unique Protoss unit that might only fill a niche role.
If i wanted to use Siege Tanks or Infestors I'd play Terran or Zerg. I play Protoss because I like Protoss units.
|
My quick thoughts
Battle Hellion - Seriously... They want to make a anti-light raider more robust..? Was Zealot/Archon really that bad the EMP didn't do enough burst damage...? Why not just add the Firebat (which is what this unit transforms into)?
Warhound - Ugly. Some of the fun about Muta micro was skirting the range of Thors. Catch a Thor out of position and magic box was great.
Shredder - Interesting idea, gave it to the wrong race. Terran already dominates in static control. If this ever gets implemented with maps like Typhon Peaks, I will officially stop playing Zerg and just switch to Terran.
Viper - Interesting, seems fun. Not sure about the "pull", doesn't seem very Zerg to me but will definitely add micro to battles.
Swarm Host - Do they really not want to give Zerg the Lurker that bad..? I get the idea, they want it to be "fresh and exciting" to have something new but the design just seems horrible to me... Even the video didn't impress.
Tempest - I actually like the idea. We might actually Protoss building capital ships now.
Oracle - I'm meh about the unit. The idea of harassing via denying mining is at least a new idea.
Replicant - I don't really like it. I can see it now, copy Infester -> Fungal+Storm. This unit will be so hard to balance I don't see it even remotely in it's current form making it into the game.
Feel free to rip me a new one if you disagree via PM or in the thread if it doesn't derail it...
|
can a Replicant copy a scv or drone that build structures?
That could be could we toss can have a 400 deathball :p
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
