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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
When mutas/banshees/medivacs etc are at your mineral line, they will continue to do damage until you do something about it. Energy based harass can't work as well. Also, I can't imagine it working as a mid game harass option the way they're intending. Making a bunch of relatively expensive oracles that don't have a function in battle is just asking to be attacked and smashed. Protoss is fragile as it. I think it wont be used earlier than late game. | ||
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PsyChoRo
Romania85 Posts
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Ironsights
United States196 Posts
On October 29 2011 08:11 AndAgain wrote: The thing I don't like about the oracle is that it misses the point of harass. It's not just about damaging economy, but also forcing your opponent to stay close to his base. This is something that protoss is lacking. When mutas/banshees/medivacs etc are at your mineral line, they will continue to do damage until you do something about it. Energy based harass can't work as well. Also, I can't imagine it working as a mid game harass option the way they're intending. Making a bunch of relatively expensive oracles that don't have a function in battle is just asking to be attacked and smashed. Protoss is fragile as it. I think it wont be used earlier than late game. I have to disagree with you here. Energy based harass is VERY viable in my (albeit low league) opinion. Ravens with auto turrets can cause a lot of grief if left unchecked. (pro refernce-tlo) Infesters dropping infested terrans can wreak some havoc, especialy if rushed agaisnt protoss (pro reference - destiny) I am not sayign that energy based harass is the premier method (tho I surely enjoy it!) nor am I saying the Oracle is going to be a god send for the protoss, but I just felt your point was a touch too extreme. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
Six Tempests do 132 dmg (22 x 6) at range 6. Vikings have 125 HP. Forcing the Vikings to target something other than the Tempests (e.g. Hallucination, Colossi, storm, etc) mean being able vaporize that Viking flower that Protoss seem to have a problem with in WoL. Add in a few oracles to systematically phase shift static defenses and a couple of phoneix to lift up any last minute GtA units (marine/stalker/hydra), I'd say the future of Sky Protoss never looked so good. | ||
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XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
On October 29 2011 21:03 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Fun fact: Six Tempests do 132 dmg (22 x 6) at range 6. Vikings have 125 HP. Forcing the Vikings to target something other than the Tempests (e.g. Hallucination, Colossi, storm, etc) mean being able vaporize that Viking flower that Protoss seem to have a problem with in WoL. Add in a few oracles to systematically phase shift static defenses and a couple of phoneix to lift up any last minute GtA units (marine/stalker/hydra), I'd say the future of Sky Protoss never looked so good. Source for unit stats plx, i want it ALL!!! and what is the ground attack mechanism? my guess 1 attack per second (like sentry) or something... what kind of output can we expect? | ||
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
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wastedeagle
13 Posts
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On October 30 2011 06:46 XerrolAvengerII wrote: Source for unit stats plx, i want it ALL!!! and what is the ground attack mechanism? my guess 1 attack per second (like sentry) or something... what kind of output can we expect? AtA is 22 dmg with an attack speed of 3, splash radius of about a single fungal growth. AtG is 35 dmg with an attack speed of 2.2, no splash. Youtube videos and conversations from friends at blizzcon. Tempest has an AtG range of 6 and an AtA range of 6. It's been erroneously been stated that it's AtA range is 4 multiple times, but you can easily see in promo vids that Tempests fire before Mutalisks do. Mutalisks have a range of 4.5. | ||
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XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
On October 30 2011 06:50 dgwow wrote: From the polls terrans seem to hate the new units, what exactly about them do you hate? I hate blizzards philosophy of, if its broken... throw it away and replace with something stupid. I would like to see blizzard fix carriers, battle cruisers, reapers, and the mothership... in stead of justifying NOT doing so by claiming those units to be lower level tailored. The battlecruiser is supposed to be strong vs mutalisks... so instead we replace thor with a unit that will suxxors vs zerg and we give battlecruiser some silly stimmy blinky ability thing that is completely out of place... All this hots stuff sounds like a big "FUCK IT" from blizzard... Except the zerg stuff, that stuff is scary and awesome... i can't tell more of which  Has anyone else noticed who blizzard seems to invent more and more ways to completely subvert siege tanks? i mean, blinding cloud... how more obvious can you get? | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
On October 26 2011 13:39 bRiz wrote: sorry to bring this up again, but someone mentioned that the developers were still considering more units. I wasn't around for WoL beta, but is it possible some of these units will be removed and replaced with even more different units?? In WoL blizzard did a lot of experimenting with different units in alpha, many units/buildings/abilities came and went during alpha. Once it hit beta, they didn't add or remove any units, they just tweaked stats and changed spells and abilities a bit. So I'm sure there are to be many changes before beta. I keep hearing people say that HOTS beta wont even be out for a year or so, not sure what they got this from but if it's the case then I'm sure there will be many changes. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
On October 30 2011 09:24 ShatterZer0 wrote: AtA is 22 dmg with an attack speed of 3, splash radius of about a single fungal growth. AtG is 35 dmg with an attack speed of 2.2, no splash. Youtube videos and conversations from friends at blizzcon. Tempest has an AtG range of 6 and an AtA range of 6. It's been erroneously been stated that it's AtA range is 4 multiple times, but you can easily see in promo vids that Tempests fire before Mutalisks do. Mutalisks have a range of 4.5. Mutas attack range is actually 3, so it is still possible for Tempest to attack first if AtA range is 4. I have no idea if it is, however. | ||
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XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
On October 30 2011 09:45 Ryder. wrote: Mutas attack range is actually 3, so it is still possible for Tempest to attack first if AtA range is 4. I have no idea if it is, however. Wow, i never realised that blizzard could replace the carrier with something worse... holy shit that unit SUCKS... totally not worth 300/300 for 15 dps... dayum, 2 unstimmed marines put that unit to shame (guess i can't complain about the battlecruiser anymore, holy fucking shit) | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On October 30 2011 09:49 XerrolAvengerII wrote: Wow, i never realised that blizzard could replace the carrier with something worse... holy shit that unit SUCKS... totally not worth 300/300 for 15 dps... dayum, 2 unstimmed marines put that unit to shame (guess i can't complain about the battlecruiser anymore, holy fucking shit) 12 unstimmed marines ( equal dps of six tempests ) can't one shot a cloud of 40 mutas or phoneix or Vikings. Their advantage is the same as a Seige tank, remove unit clusters in a single salvo. For the record the range is 6. Take it from the player who goes BCs on ladder. | ||
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XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
On October 30 2011 13:45 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: 12 unstimmed marines ( equal dps of six tempests ) can't one shot a cloud of 40 mutas or phoneix or Vikings. Their advantage is the same as a Seige tank, remove unit clusters in a single salvo. For the record the range is 6. Take it from the player who goes BCs on ladder. I was mostly talking about air to ground damage.... but the tempest is still pretty lolable... i'm also biased because i want Carriers back D:< (and i want them to be good) | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On October 29 2011 21:03 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Fun fact: Six Tempests do 132 dmg (22 x 6) at range 6. Vikings have 125 HP. Forcing the Vikings to target something other than the Tempests (e.g. Hallucination, Colossi, storm, etc) mean being able vaporize that Viking flower that Protoss seem to have a problem with in WoL. Add in a few oracles to systematically phase shift static defenses and a couple of phoneix to lift up any last minute GtA units (marine/stalker/hydra), I'd say the future of Sky Protoss never looked so good. Making 6 tempests that require Fleet Beacon? Zerg would have the entire map by then. And maybe killed you twice with mass roaches too. Edit: Same deal with terran but with ghosts and stuff  | ||
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Buzzo
58 Posts
On October 29 2011 08:11 AndAgain wrote: The thing I don't like about the oracle is that it misses the point of harass. It's not just about damaging economy, but also forcing your opponent to stay close to his base. This is something that protoss is lacking. When mutas/banshees/medivacs etc are at your mineral line, they will continue to do damage until you do something about it. Energy based harass can't work as well. Also, I can't imagine it working as a mid game harass option the way they're intending. Making a bunch of relatively expensive oracles that don't have a function in battle is just asking to be attacked and smashed. Protoss is fragile as it. I think it wont be used earlier than late game. Imho Oracle is not a real harassing unit (like Hellions, mutalisks, baneling drops, MMM drops, a Banshee, ecc...). I mean, all these units are able to kill a mineral line in a few seconds, and, even if they are so effective, the investment (for harassing purpose only) is usually not justified; so these units have some other functions (Hellions do well in early TvZ, Mutalisks counter MMM drops, banelings drops are devastating in battle too, ecc...). The only harassing unit without a secondary function is the reaper, an underused unit. (see a trend). IMHO the Oracle is something that will be used against static defense in PvZ, in order to boost the effectiveness of units able kill something (phoenix, void ray ). Against T, the oracle have potential if used together with void ray (i'm talking about a proxy SG cheese). | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
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Buzzo
58 Posts
On October 30 2011 21:54 Daralii wrote: Completely disabling a tech building for 45 seconds wouldn't be useful in just about any situation? Nope if you need to build 1-2 stargate (and a couple of very expensive units) only for this purpose. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On October 30 2011 20:23 Salteador Neo wrote: Making 6 tempests that require Fleet Beacon? Zerg would have the entire map by then. And maybe killed you twice with mass roaches too. Edit: Same deal with terran but with ghosts and stuff Fact: Tier 3 units are designed to die to mass Tier 1.5/2 units. Trying sending equaling equal resource count BC against Void Rays and it's not pretty. Same goes for: - corruptors vs. Mutas, - Colossi vs Immortal, - Siege tanks vs. Thors. - Ultras vs roach - BC vs. Vikings, etc etc Tempest solves that problem by being a flying Thor (adjusted for balance). | ||
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covetousrat
2109 Posts
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