EPTNew HotS Units/Abilities in Blizzcon - Page 372
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
viii
United States266 Posts
| ||
|
Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On October 30 2011 22:21 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Fact: Tier 3 units are designed to die to mass Tier 1.5/2 units. Trying sending equaling equal resource count BC against Void Rays and it's not pretty. Same goes for: - corruptors vs. Mutas, - Colossi vs Immortal, - Siege tanks vs. Thors. - Ultras vs roach - BC vs. Vikings, etc etc Tempest solves that problem by being a flying Thor (adjusted for balance). That's cool to know but has nothing to do with what I said  You can make tempests way too late to make 6 of them and not be way behind or dead already.Btw corruptors and mutas are the same tier 2 if my memory doesn't fail me. | ||
|
Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
Arc Shield cheese (Arced assimilator/pylon in opponent's base) -decrease the dps of Arc Shield and make it an AoE -decrease the dps and decrease the cost [both of those mean it is primarily useful in places you have a lot of buildings..ie your own base] -range from Nexus limit (~20 or so) -not on assimilators or pylons -later in game (ie cyber core) [the last two would weaken it as a defense] Tempest weak -AtA dps buff or Range buff -Speed buff* (give them a speed slightly slower than Mutas) so they can respond to harrass (and a Fast capital ship would be cool) -Shield boost against GtA attacks (shield takes 1/2 damage or has +5 armor against ground attacks) Oracle weak (entomb not doing enough damage) -make the hp for each mineral and increase the hp (so 75-200 hp for each mineral cluster) Replicant (stopping other races from making units) -make Replicant T3 (Support Bay needed) -have it only give 50 energy for casters (it might already) -increase cost Blinding Cloud (OP v. Terrans particularly with fungal (can't move back) and/or banelings(weak unit must kill first) -more energy cost -lower range -redesign. (give some benefits to units in the cloud.. making it Slightly more like Vortex)... or have it just Blind all of the units for X seconds. (they can still fire if another unit can see) Ocular Parasite (underpowered..if only once/Viper, overpowered.. if multiple for just 50 energy) -just 50 energy.. but make unit clearly visible to enemy Abduct (what if Viper is over space? kill unit?) -viper will drag unit to nearest available space Swarm Host (seems underpowered, unswarmy) -rapid stream of units that are med hp, but low dps -give spawned units cliff climbing [long effective range may help] Corrupter Siphon (still pretty meh, possible to abuse with building regen or allied terran repair) -change to 5 damage+3 minerals+1 gas per second. (regardless of building type+cost) -can't cast on Friendly buildings -multiple corrupters can target same building Shredder (drops) -increase Shredder deploy time -make Shredder weaker when not deployed | ||
|
Antares777
United States1971 Posts
Is anyone else surprised that the Queen wasn't modified at all? I was expecting it to be able to transform into a more powerful type of Queen, or maybe get a new ability. | ||
|
Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
| ||
|
XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
Also, y does blizzard beat tanks like a dead horse? They nerfed them nearly into the ground, and at this point they are built in low numbers (cept TvT) simply because of range or for micro (target banelings etc)... the Viper alone adds 2 abilities that are both retardedly strong vs tanks: A) pull the tanks away from the terran defenses... as if that was necessary with the utlralisk charge... B) blind cloud vs tanks, then their range is reduced BELOW the minimum, therefor completely nullifying their weapon. I guess the game will evolve to the point where the only thing terran CAN do is make marines and ghosts vs zerg... | ||
|
rustypipe
Canada206 Posts
On November 01 2011 06:22 XerrolAvengerII wrote: I just wanna remind you alls that Blind Cloud silences the units under it so not only can ghosts not use cloak benieth a blinding cloud (or any other ability, i.e. snipe, nuke, emp...) but also, that Terran bio will be unable to use STIM beneath a blinding cloud as a way to escape. Also, y does blizzard beat tanks like a dead horse? They nerfed them nearly into the ground, and at this point they are built in low numbers (cept TvT) simply because of range or for micro (target banelings etc)... the Viper alone adds 2 abilities that are both retardedly strong vs tanks: A) pull the tanks away from the terran defenses... as if that was necessary with the utlralisk charge... B) blind cloud vs tanks, then their range is reduced BELOW the minimum, therefor completely nullifying their weapon. I guess the game will evolve to the point where the only thing terran CAN do is make marines and ghosts vs zerg... Ohhh wAAAaaaaaaaaa, get over it. Terrans are the most versitile race in the game and there will be ways around it, not to mention i'm sure Blizzard will "balance" it eventually.... well to what they consider balanced. The biggest problem with ZvT in WoL is the fact that Zerg CANNOT break a T that just turtles and slow pushes / no stop drop horrases (AKA MVP style) Go play as Zerg and try to break this. Zergs only option at the moment is to continue to expand and pray you hold on to your 1-2 base advantage so you can continue to macro up and hopefully crush a push / mistake the T makes. There is a VERY good reason why the GSL is 80% terran at the moment. | ||
|
XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
On November 01 2011 06:38 rustypipe wrote: Ohhh wAAAaaaaaaaaa, get over it. Terrans are the most versitile race in the game and there will be ways around it, not to mention i'm sure Blizzard will "balance" it eventually.... well to what they consider balanced. The biggest problem with ZvT in WoL is the fact that Zerg CANNOT break a T that just turtles and slow pushes / no stop drop horrases (AKA MVP style) Go play as Zerg and try to break this. Zergs only option at the moment is to continue to expand and pray you hold on to your 1-2 base advantage so you can continue to macro up and hopefully crush a push / mistake the T makes. There is a VERY good reason why the GSL is 80% terran at the moment. I play zerg... and my Terran friend is starting is larva inject practice for the expansion, bet you can guess what he's gonna do next... | ||
|
rustypipe
Canada206 Posts
| ||
|
rustypipe
Canada206 Posts
On November 01 2011 06:42 XerrolAvengerII wrote: I play zerg... and my Terran friend is starting is larva inject practice for the expansion, bet you can guess what he's gonna do next... No surprise there. Give you friend a punch in the teeth for being a tool bag and just constantly jumping ship to the race that has the advantage atm. I bet you will see a lot of that till it levels out. That doesn't help the problem either it just skews blizzards server stats which only makes the process longer. | ||
|
Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On November 01 2011 06:22 XerrolAvengerII wrote: I just wanna remind you alls that Blind Cloud silences the units under it so not only can ghosts not use cloak benieth a blinding cloud (or any other ability, i.e. snipe, nuke, emp...) but also, that Terran bio will be unable to use STIM beneath a blinding cloud as a way to escape. Also, y does blizzard beat tanks like a dead horse? They nerfed them nearly into the ground, and at this point they are built in low numbers (cept TvT) simply because of range or for micro (target banelings etc)... the Viper alone adds 2 abilities that are both retardedly strong vs tanks: A) pull the tanks away from the terran defenses... as if that was necessary with the utlralisk charge... B) blind cloud vs tanks, then their range is reduced BELOW the minimum, therefor completely nullifying their weapon. I guess the game will evolve to the point where the only thing terran CAN do is make marines and ghosts vs zerg... Incorrect on your first point, it prevents "energy units" from using abilities, so if an ability costs energy it can't be used. This allows the use of stim and tank/helion/viking transforms, but prevents raven, ghost, and medivac usage. hopefully it also prevents orbital command usage, so there can be interesting usage combined with burrowed banelings to prevent scans. The reason they have been nerfing tanks is because they are an extremely powerful unit. In BW there was a very common saying: "You don't fight tanks on the ground" where PvT centered around arbiters to bypass and disable tank lines (or carrier switches to ignore them). In SC2 they don't want tanks to be the end-all counter to everything ground, especially with the no-overkill buff they got with the engine change. Tanks have needed a counter in ZvT, and in a vacuum as the only thing added to the game, I agree it would be a bit daunting for terrans to start to face vipers, but the fact of the matter is that HotS will be an entirely new balance set. We might even see terrans need to make more then 3-4 types of units this expansion! If you're looking for a counter to vipers, look no further then HSM, unless I'm mistaken in my math, it's a 100% kill chance when targeting a viper, it will be Irradiate vs defiler wars all over again. Or you could even get some vikings, the zerg army is notoriously bad anti-air with the hydra being the only thing that can shoot up, gainnig air control may be the focal point of ZvT, there's really no way to tell how the meta-game will pan out. | ||
|
XerrolAvengerII
United States510 Posts
On November 01 2011 07:17 Shiladie wrote: Incorrect on your first point, it prevents "energy units" from using abilities, so if an ability costs energy it can't be used. This allows the use of stim and tank/helion/viking transforms, but prevents raven, ghost, and medivac usage. hopefully it also prevents orbital command usage, so there can be interesting usage combined with burrowed banelings to prevent scans. The reason they have been nerfing tanks is because they are an extremely powerful unit. In BW there was a very common saying: "You don't fight tanks on the ground" where PvT centered around arbiters to bypass and disable tank lines (or carrier switches to ignore them). In SC2 they don't want tanks to be the end-all counter to everything ground, especially with the no-overkill buff they got with the engine change. Tanks have needed a counter in ZvT, and in a vacuum as the only thing added to the game, I agree it would be a bit daunting for terrans to start to face vipers, but the fact of the matter is that HotS will be an entirely new balance set. We might even see terrans need to make more then 3-4 types of units this expansion! If you're looking for a counter to vipers, look no further then HSM, unless I'm mistaken in my math, it's a 100% kill chance when targeting a viper, it will be Irradiate vs defiler wars all over again. Or you could even get some vikings, the zerg army is notoriously bad anti-air with the hydra being the only thing that can shoot up, gainnig air control may be the focal point of ZvT, there's really no way to tell how the meta-game will pan out. They would give the viper <100 hp and <2.8 movespeed? hmm... shit might actually work!!! (i've kinda felt that Seekermissile needed a nerf anyway, but i suppose if they actually give it a purpose...) In season 1, I rarly made siege tanks in any match up... in TvT, i played Eichoic zerg/terran style... against protoss was bio+air... against zerg was also bio+thors... Siege tanks always slowed me down, battles were nearly always over before i could get tanks into possition, and even then they restricted my mobility and drained my gold-level apm... They were never worth anything to me because they seemed way to easy to subvert with good muta-ling-banling play. At this point, i would say siege tanks are fine-ish, possibly a little overpriced (like maybe 25 minerals)... but regardless, i don't use them because they hurt your own army comp worse than the opponent... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I seem to recall a comment a while back about Terran turtling on 2 bases and zerg being up 2 bases (lol that sounds like protoss going void rays lolololol)... and thats pretty silly because even on 2 bases a Terran can't afford to move out without losing his economy... and thereby forcing an allin. And with a 2 base advantage zerg should be able to hold off allins at that point. Tanks are bad, because their strength and weakness goes together... while a sieged terran force is difficult to attack (was the same way in BW)... its immobile. If terran unsieges tanks, then they become basically free to kill and thats the opportunity to move in... if they sit there... move around them... or just abuse the "passiveness" of a unit that can't move. I'm speaking from my level which is gold (terran and zerg)... and i can say that as a zerg player i don't take Allin's seriously because i hate defending alllins so i don't bother to prepare for them. However, at gold (and silver) level, most players have a tendancy to either perform A) a scripted allin push like thing or B) turtly / passive build up to something (tier 3 maybe? no clue) Zerg is the best at abusing passive players, and while having difficulty in holding off certain specific allins or pushes, zerglings banelings and mutalisks give incredible map control and can hold off most more advanced pushes (especially with infestor support!) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ That's my insite, i know that i will never ever ever come across a player that effectivly uses snipe to kill my ultras and broodlords... because gold level players just can't do that... They will try, but let them because if the game goes that long, I'm sure i've won anyway. You feel however you want to, but there is A REASON that everyone likes the new zerg units, and that more people DISLIKE the changes for the other races. That speaks volumes for itself. | ||
|
iky43210
United States2099 Posts
| ||
|
Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On November 01 2011 07:37 iky43210 wrote: ravens are slower than defilers are they not? science vessels was fast as hell in bw last I remember There was scourge in that game too | ||
|
Velr
Switzerland10700 Posts
| ||
|
firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
I think a science vessel would be a great addition to terran right now | ||
|
ThirdDegree
United States329 Posts
| ||
|
SanDokaN_X
Bulgaria69 Posts
For example, in BW the macro system was so much less developed (selecting only one building, having to individually send mining workers, etc.). WoL changed these things quite a bit and it just feels HotS should implement too some new features to the gameplay mechanics, making it require much less APM "wasted" on repetitive actions. | ||
|
Whole
United States6046 Posts
On November 06 2011 04:35 SanDokaN_X wrote: I really think they should add Autocast to the Inject larva ability, just to make SC2 even more polished and micro focused. Because.. micro is what we all find more interesting, right? For example, in BW the macro system was so much less developed (selecting only one building, having to individually send mining workers, etc.) and it just feels HotS should implement new features to the game, making it require much less APM wasted on repetitive actions. Most people will disagree. Most people find the immense amount of multitasking required for SC2 interesting. Macro, although repetitive in its purest form, makes the game really interesting because it forces you to keep tabs on everything while moving around your army around and microing a battle. If there were to take out these staple macro mechanics, drops, harass, and other multitasking tactics will lose efficiency. There would be no point to try to strain your opponent to multitask because they would only be watching their deathball and their base, not their economy. | ||
|
Sugarfree
Croatia11 Posts
| ||
| ||
