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On October 22 2011 12:17 SnowK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:15 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 12:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:compare that to 0 gas for 4 hellions or 200 gas for TWO banshees that cause permanent economic damage. 400 gas for 4 Hellions...which will definitely die if/when used for harass. Oh, and to get them into your opponent's base, they either need to make a mistake, or you need drop tech. And you'll likely want BFH as well. So really, to get Hellion drops really up and running you need an upgrade, two different production buildings,and a 100/100 medivac in addition to the Hellions themselves, after which they may or may not do huge damage, but will almost certainly die. Whereas for an Oracle ready to harass you need one building, and once you have an Oracle you can hit their mineral line again and again, and can much more easily keep your Oracle alive throughout. It also opens up other utility like shutting down defense or screwing with tech or improved scouting. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. But saying "400 minerals to kill a whole mineral line vs. 200 gas to not kill anything, T imba P sucks!!!11!" is really, really reductive and silly. Right now, JYP has had a decent amount of success with sentry drops. Those take multiple tech structures for the prism and the sentries, and cost a ton of gas. The Oracle does the same thing much, much better, for less investment. For twice the gas of a Phoenix it does vastly better harass than two Phoenixes ever will (and, if you want to combine them, they synergize well). 1. hellions dont cost gas. 2. Killing 20 workers>preventing 20 workers from minging for a limited amount of time. even if its last for a crazy duration like 1 minute, its still better to actually KILL workers and, you know, preventing them from doing anything for the rest of the game. its pretty simple maths. there is no advantage to forcefielding a mineral line compared to killing actual workers. I'd also like to mention the fact that workers can just kill the mineral FFs - you should never see full duration unless they have a silly amount of HP.
What? You can't attack FFs.
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Finally, some changes that dont force terran to use bio. Really looking forward to these mech changes.
Also, great to see spider mines make a return... good to see that you wont need 15 tanks and 50 missile turrets in 1 spot to control space.
Finally, hellions have a use outside of 'lol lets see if I can make enough to tank 2 seconds worth of dmg/tanking' in a straight up mid-late game fight.
I am sceptical about the Warhound though. I hope it can do decent damage against armoured air.
Kind of sad they didnt do anything with the viking. Thought there was potential there, but i guess you cant have everything.
I still think they should have nerfed the shit out of the marauder or removed it. Stupid unit.
Im happy for zerg getting more utility. They look even more scary now.
Protoss looks like they get to max a death ball while turtling whilst being able to teleport it back to base and have uber base defence whilst its out doing stuff. Ouch.
Im glad blizzard took a bit of a risk adding 3 units for each race. Really looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
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On October 22 2011 12:17 TheAntZ wrote:
Oh good, terrans got the spider mine. Hopefully with all the new units being mech terran can move away from just spamming marines all game every MU
probably not though
if terrans had high templars or infestors i dont think they wouldnt use them it all depends on what other units they will have
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On October 22 2011 12:22 Lazerlike42 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:17 SnowK wrote:On October 22 2011 12:15 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 12:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:compare that to 0 gas for 4 hellions or 200 gas for TWO banshees that cause permanent economic damage. 400 gas for 4 Hellions...which will definitely die if/when used for harass. Oh, and to get them into your opponent's base, they either need to make a mistake, or you need drop tech. And you'll likely want BFH as well. So really, to get Hellion drops really up and running you need an upgrade, two different production buildings,and a 100/100 medivac in addition to the Hellions themselves, after which they may or may not do huge damage, but will almost certainly die. Whereas for an Oracle ready to harass you need one building, and once you have an Oracle you can hit their mineral line again and again, and can much more easily keep your Oracle alive throughout. It also opens up other utility like shutting down defense or screwing with tech or improved scouting. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. But saying "400 minerals to kill a whole mineral line vs. 200 gas to not kill anything, T imba P sucks!!!11!" is really, really reductive and silly. Right now, JYP has had a decent amount of success with sentry drops. Those take multiple tech structures for the prism and the sentries, and cost a ton of gas. The Oracle does the same thing much, much better, for less investment. For twice the gas of a Phoenix it does vastly better harass than two Phoenixes ever will (and, if you want to combine them, they synergize well). 1. hellions dont cost gas. 2. Killing 20 workers>preventing 20 workers from minging for a limited amount of time. even if its last for a crazy duration like 1 minute, its still better to actually KILL workers and, you know, preventing them from doing anything for the rest of the game. its pretty simple maths. there is no advantage to forcefielding a mineral line compared to killing actual workers. I'd also like to mention the fact that workers can just kill the mineral FFs - you should never see full duration unless they have a silly amount of HP. What? You can't attack FFs.
The Oracle Mineral FF's can be attacked.
the first one is a mineral-block, that puts a shield around enemy mineral-fields, preventing them to be mined until the spell expire, or until the shields are destroyed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lkmi0/full_breakdown_of_the_sc2_multiplayer_panel/
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On October 22 2011 12:22 Lazerlike42 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:17 SnowK wrote:On October 22 2011 12:15 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 12:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:compare that to 0 gas for 4 hellions or 200 gas for TWO banshees that cause permanent economic damage. 400 gas for 4 Hellions...which will definitely die if/when used for harass. Oh, and to get them into your opponent's base, they either need to make a mistake, or you need drop tech. And you'll likely want BFH as well. So really, to get Hellion drops really up and running you need an upgrade, two different production buildings,and a 100/100 medivac in addition to the Hellions themselves, after which they may or may not do huge damage, but will almost certainly die. Whereas for an Oracle ready to harass you need one building, and once you have an Oracle you can hit their mineral line again and again, and can much more easily keep your Oracle alive throughout. It also opens up other utility like shutting down defense or screwing with tech or improved scouting. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. But saying "400 minerals to kill a whole mineral line vs. 200 gas to not kill anything, T imba P sucks!!!11!" is really, really reductive and silly. Right now, JYP has had a decent amount of success with sentry drops. Those take multiple tech structures for the prism and the sentries, and cost a ton of gas. The Oracle does the same thing much, much better, for less investment. For twice the gas of a Phoenix it does vastly better harass than two Phoenixes ever will (and, if you want to combine them, they synergize well). 1. hellions dont cost gas. 2. Killing 20 workers>preventing 20 workers from minging for a limited amount of time. even if its last for a crazy duration like 1 minute, its still better to actually KILL workers and, you know, preventing them from doing anything for the rest of the game. its pretty simple maths. there is no advantage to forcefielding a mineral line compared to killing actual workers. I'd also like to mention the fact that workers can just kill the mineral FFs - you should never see full duration unless they have a silly amount of HP. What? You can't attack FFs.
the thing the oracle uses to stop mining can be attacked afaik
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On October 22 2011 12:22 Lazerlike42 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:17 SnowK wrote:On October 22 2011 12:15 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 12:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:compare that to 0 gas for 4 hellions or 200 gas for TWO banshees that cause permanent economic damage. 400 gas for 4 Hellions...which will definitely die if/when used for harass. Oh, and to get them into your opponent's base, they either need to make a mistake, or you need drop tech. And you'll likely want BFH as well. So really, to get Hellion drops really up and running you need an upgrade, two different production buildings,and a 100/100 medivac in addition to the Hellions themselves, after which they may or may not do huge damage, but will almost certainly die. Whereas for an Oracle ready to harass you need one building, and once you have an Oracle you can hit their mineral line again and again, and can much more easily keep your Oracle alive throughout. It also opens up other utility like shutting down defense or screwing with tech or improved scouting. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. But saying "400 minerals to kill a whole mineral line vs. 200 gas to not kill anything, T imba P sucks!!!11!" is really, really reductive and silly. Right now, JYP has had a decent amount of success with sentry drops. Those take multiple tech structures for the prism and the sentries, and cost a ton of gas. The Oracle does the same thing much, much better, for less investment. For twice the gas of a Phoenix it does vastly better harass than two Phoenixes ever will (and, if you want to combine them, they synergize well). 1. hellions dont cost gas. 2. Killing 20 workers>preventing 20 workers from minging for a limited amount of time. even if its last for a crazy duration like 1 minute, its still better to actually KILL workers and, you know, preventing them from doing anything for the rest of the game. its pretty simple maths. there is no advantage to forcefielding a mineral line compared to killing actual workers. I'd also like to mention the fact that workers can just kill the mineral FFs - you should never see full duration unless they have a silly amount of HP. What? You can't attack FFs.
The new mineral FFs. Artosis said tht they're realllly really fast and he said he loves them
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Are these all the new units for HoTS, or are they revealing more as time goes on?
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On October 22 2011 12:22 Lazerlike42 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:17 SnowK wrote:On October 22 2011 12:15 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 12:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:compare that to 0 gas for 4 hellions or 200 gas for TWO banshees that cause permanent economic damage. 400 gas for 4 Hellions...which will definitely die if/when used for harass. Oh, and to get them into your opponent's base, they either need to make a mistake, or you need drop tech. And you'll likely want BFH as well. So really, to get Hellion drops really up and running you need an upgrade, two different production buildings,and a 100/100 medivac in addition to the Hellions themselves, after which they may or may not do huge damage, but will almost certainly die. Whereas for an Oracle ready to harass you need one building, and once you have an Oracle you can hit their mineral line again and again, and can much more easily keep your Oracle alive throughout. It also opens up other utility like shutting down defense or screwing with tech or improved scouting. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. But saying "400 minerals to kill a whole mineral line vs. 200 gas to not kill anything, T imba P sucks!!!11!" is really, really reductive and silly. Right now, JYP has had a decent amount of success with sentry drops. Those take multiple tech structures for the prism and the sentries, and cost a ton of gas. The Oracle does the same thing much, much better, for less investment. For twice the gas of a Phoenix it does vastly better harass than two Phoenixes ever will (and, if you want to combine them, they synergize well). 1. hellions dont cost gas. 2. Killing 20 workers>preventing 20 workers from minging for a limited amount of time. even if its last for a crazy duration like 1 minute, its still better to actually KILL workers and, you know, preventing them from doing anything for the rest of the game. its pretty simple maths. there is no advantage to forcefielding a mineral line compared to killing actual workers. I'd also like to mention the fact that workers can just kill the mineral FFs - you should never see full duration unless they have a silly amount of HP. What? You can't attack FFs.
You can the mineral stasis.. and yeah 16 scvs should do the job quickly depending on the amount of SCVs
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On October 22 2011 12:25 Monsyphon wrote:
Are these all the new units for HoTS, or are they revealing more as time goes on?
I'd think these are all. There are quite a bit here, I don't see why they'd add more
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On October 22 2011 12:23 SnowK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:22 Lazerlike42 wrote:On October 22 2011 12:17 SnowK wrote:On October 22 2011 12:15 sc2holar wrote:On October 22 2011 12:12 awesomoecalypse wrote:compare that to 0 gas for 4 hellions or 200 gas for TWO banshees that cause permanent economic damage. 400 gas for 4 Hellions...which will definitely die if/when used for harass. Oh, and to get them into your opponent's base, they either need to make a mistake, or you need drop tech. And you'll likely want BFH as well. So really, to get Hellion drops really up and running you need an upgrade, two different production buildings,and a 100/100 medivac in addition to the Hellions themselves, after which they may or may not do huge damage, but will almost certainly die. Whereas for an Oracle ready to harass you need one building, and once you have an Oracle you can hit their mineral line again and again, and can much more easily keep your Oracle alive throughout. It also opens up other utility like shutting down defense or screwing with tech or improved scouting. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. But saying "400 minerals to kill a whole mineral line vs. 200 gas to not kill anything, T imba P sucks!!!11!" is really, really reductive and silly. Right now, JYP has had a decent amount of success with sentry drops. Those take multiple tech structures for the prism and the sentries, and cost a ton of gas. The Oracle does the same thing much, much better, for less investment. For twice the gas of a Phoenix it does vastly better harass than two Phoenixes ever will (and, if you want to combine them, they synergize well). 1. hellions dont cost gas. 2. Killing 20 workers>preventing 20 workers from minging for a limited amount of time. even if its last for a crazy duration like 1 minute, its still better to actually KILL workers and, you know, preventing them from doing anything for the rest of the game. its pretty simple maths. there is no advantage to forcefielding a mineral line compared to killing actual workers. I'd also like to mention the fact that workers can just kill the mineral FFs - you should never see full duration unless they have a silly amount of HP. What? You can't attack FFs. The Oracle Mineral FF's can be attacked. Show nested quote +the first one is a mineral-block, that puts a shield around enemy mineral-fields, preventing them to be mined until the spell expire, or until the shields are destroyed. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/lkmi0/full_breakdown_of_the_sc2_multiplayer_panel/
Oh, right. Sorry, I thought you were talking about sentry FFs.
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On October 22 2011 12:22 OffCuts wrote:
Also, great to see spider mines make a return... good to see that you wont need 15 tanks and 50 missile turrets in 1 spot to control space.
Wait what? Where does it say spider mines are back???
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the general direction this is taking seems good.. i dont agree with the free cannon and recall..
and in the current metagame i think battle hellion would be to powerfull.. imagine, you mass hellions to harras and deny map control or 3rd base to the zerg..just like now..but then,when you move out with your marine tank push,you also have some badass battlehellions that tank a lot of damage and still deal splash... 
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On October 22 2011 12:17 R3demption wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 10:32 Gorg wrote:
so david kim and dustin browder acknowledged a few months ago that early scouting is a big problem in the game at the moment and all they do is remove the only viable scouting option zerg had with the overseer? i hope there will be some kind of substitute specifically for scouting. Overlords
So... right now... in the current game state... the developers state that Zerg lack early scouting. The poster of the original comment here hopes there is a substitute.
You respond by just naming a unit that exists in the game in the current state. The original post clearly states, in no uncertain terms, that "scouting is a big problem in the game at the moment." How is your comment helpful? If you are claiming that that the developers of the game are incorrect in their stance that "Zerg scouting is a big problem in the early game at the moment" could you please explain why?
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On October 22 2011 12:26 StayFrosty wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:22 OffCuts wrote:
Also, great to see spider mines make a return... good to see that you wont need 15 tanks and 50 missile turrets in 1 spot to control space.
Wait what? Where does it say spider mines are back???
He is referring to the area control unit (the shredder i think) and how it has a similar space control ability to spider mines.
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On October 22 2011 12:27 Carras wrote:the general direction this is taking seems good.. i dont agree with the free cannon and recall.. and in the current metagame i think battle hellion would be to powerfull.. imagine, you mass hellions to harras and deny map control or 3rd base to the zerg..just like now..but then,when you move out with your marine tank push,you also have some badass battlehellions that tank a lot of damage and still deal splash...
blizzard thinks hellions have no utility in the late game
what rubbish
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i'm baffled at david kim's comment that p has a "too strong" deathball or a "lot of options." O_O
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On October 22 2011 12:26 StayFrosty wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:22 OffCuts wrote:
Also, great to see spider mines make a return... good to see that you wont need 15 tanks and 50 missile turrets in 1 spot to control space.
Wait what? Where does it say spider mines are back???
Shredder is completly doing same job with spider mine
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On October 22 2011 12:27 Carras wrote:the general direction this is taking seems good.. i dont agree with the free cannon and recall.. and in the current metagame i think battle hellion would be to powerfull.. imagine, you mass hellions to harras and deny map control or 3rd base to the zerg..just like now..but then,when you move out with your marine tank push,you also have some badass battlehellions that tank a lot of damage and still deal splash...
its not like the zerg remains with same units u know that those lurkers who shoot broodlings take like 2-3 tank shots to kill -.-i mean broodlings take 2-3 shots from tanks :D
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Holy shit. David some done it.
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On October 22 2011 12:27 Smurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:17 R3demption wrote:On October 22 2011 10:32 Gorg wrote:
so david kim and dustin browder acknowledged a few months ago that early scouting is a big problem in the game at the moment and all they do is remove the only viable scouting option zerg had with the overseer? i hope there will be some kind of substitute specifically for scouting. Overlords So... right now... in the current game state... the developers state that Zerg lack early scouting. The poster of the original comment here hopes there is a substitute. You respond by just naming a unit that exists in the game in the current state. The original post clearly states, in no uncertain terms, that "scouting is a big problem in the game at the moment." How is your comment helpful? If you are claiming that that the developers of the game are incorrect in their stance that "Zerg scouting is a big problem in the early game at the moment" could you please explain why?
not everyone was blessed with above average intelligence. don't think too much into it
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EPT
