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You people do realize female and males brains operate distinctly different from each other right? For instance, more women use landmarks to navigate where men usually think of maps, directions, and street names. Women socialize differently then men. Sure, its easy to see differences in physicality but everyone is dodging the fact our brains are just different, and its very obvious. Do a little research, they've done plenty of studies on why men are more prone to play and be better at video games. Of course there will be outliers, but time has proven that women simply are not as interested in competitive games as much as men are.
Its nice to see the rare women who do dedicate themselves to starcraft, but it shouldn't be a drama fest when someone decides to hold a female only tournament. Being sexist isn't necessarily wrong or evil here. There are plenty of tourneys for men.
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On October 22 2011 14:06 Scrimpton wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:59 DaSakura wrote:On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none Why so mad bro? Girls can be good, and they can beat boys too. I beated TT1 as well, and Desrow. I'll participate at this tournament and I think I can beat many of you, so stop QQing and accept that girls can get some advantage of being a girl. The whole point is that we already know girls can compete with boys, so drop the attitude. Stop mentioning your a girl every time you post, stream or start a game. it de-legitimises your persona of "nothing to prove"
The attitude, rofl. It's not my problem if you can't accept that there's some people in the world who would like to see more female in E-sports for more than their physic, so they make tournament for them, to encourage them and let them a chance to prove that they're good. Go read some comments above, and after that you'll maybe understand my attitude: ''what a waste of money'', ''I'm all for e-sports, but... $10k for what? Mid-Masters level play?''
By the way, I mentionned that I'm a girl just because I said that I'll participate in that tournament, so stop bming, I'm just trying to explain myself.
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On October 22 2011 14:13 decemberscalm wrote:
You people do realize female and males brains operate distinctly different from each other right? For instance, more women use landmarks to navigate where men usually think of maps, directions, and street names. Women socialize differently then men. Sure, its easy to see differences in physicality but everyone is dodging the fact our brains are just different, and its very obvious. Do a little research, they've done plenty of studies on why men are more prone to play and be better at video games. Of course there will be outliers, but time has proven that women simply are not as interested in competitive games as much as men are.
Its nice to see the rare women who do dedicate themselves to starcraft, but it shouldn't be a drama fest when someone decides to hold a female only tournament. Being sexist isn't necessarily wrong or evil here. There are plenty of tourneys for men.
I thought men use Landmarks more o.O; I know I use landmarks more than streets.
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This is the issue with female gaming community and the accepted in the community for their effort and dedication in the games they play, rather than just for “being a girl in a male world”
If you want to be accepted as equals, get the girls together, let them train and practice, and then have them compete with everyone else. If all players, male and female are put together, then its equality. Otherwise its women wanted the benefits of men, but still wanting to be treated like women.
I'm all for women wanting to be considered equals in games, just prove it by competing with the best of the best.
Ranting aside, will this be streamed?
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On October 22 2011 14:21 DaSakura wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:06 Scrimpton wrote:On October 22 2011 12:59 DaSakura wrote:On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none Why so mad bro? Girls can be good, and they can beat boys too. I beated TT1 as well, and Desrow. I'll participate at this tournament and I think I can beat many of you, so stop QQing and accept that girls can get some advantage of being a girl. The whole point is that we already know girls can compete with boys, so drop the attitude. Stop mentioning your a girl every time you post, stream or start a game. it de-legitimises your persona of "nothing to prove" The attitude, rofl. It's not my problem if you can't accept that there's some people in the world who would like to see more female in E-sports for more than their physic, so they make tournament for them, to encourage them and let them a chance to prove that they're good. Go read some comments above, and after that you'll maybe understand my attitude: ''what a waste of money'', ''I'm all for e-sports, but... $10k for what? Mid-Masters level play?' By the way, I mentionned that I'm a girl just because I said that I'll participate in that tournament, so stop bming, I'm just trying to explain myself.
Just ignore the guys like this :/, Having known a lot of gamer girls, they have a hard time online after guys realize they are actually girls quite often. Most guys treat guys differently, the moment you tell them they are a girl, the attitude changes towards you, they try to hook up with them, if rejected, then you are a shitty player and they call all your mistakes and count none of their own. I see bronze guys make fun of masters females saying they suck, yet they don't realize they are worse than the girls all the time.
Here is some food for thought for you guys.
If nada takes off his shirt and shows his abs, people are like "Cool, good for him that he is getting some modeling." if a Girl does it, it's "She's using her sex to get looks." Many guys fail to see the difference, because they were raised as "My daughter shouldn't have sex." while "Word, my son just got laid." Type of mind set. I was more raised by my sisters and my mother so I don't see this as much.
What other people don't realize is, in business men will team up to destroy women first before they deal with each other, while women often don't team up with other women and try to fight everyone. The world is much more brutal for these female gamers. No matter what they do they are treated very different from guys.
TL:DR
A girl does something, she's bad.
A guy does something, it's cool.
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The attitude, rofl. It's not my problem if you can't accept that there's some people in the world who would like to see more female in E-sports for more than their physic, so they make tournament for them, to encourage them and let them a chance to prove that they're good.
You already have a chance to prove yourself, the same as everyone else. I don't mind that they have female only tournaments but I personally would rather see those who dedicated their time to becoming the best being rewarded with money.
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That's just... not true GertHeart you must know... you must know that just isn't true.
I can throw around random anecdotes that may or may not be fabricated too, but it certainly won't add anything useful to the thread.
A girl does something, she gets praised whether she did a good job or not, cos hey she's hot right?
A guy does something, he's a useless nobody unless he comes first in a very major event.
Must agree with Moskau too, the chance to shine is already there.
Female teams and creating infrastructure is really cool.
"I prefer to learn and train in a predominantly female environment" - Can't complain
"I want to have access to much easier money because i'm not male" - Annoys people
I hope you can see the difference between the two.
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On October 22 2011 14:21 GertHeart wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:13 decemberscalm wrote:
You people do realize female and males brains operate distinctly different from each other right? For instance, more women use landmarks to navigate where men usually think of maps, directions, and street names. Women socialize differently then men. Sure, its easy to see differences in physicality but everyone is dodging the fact our brains are just different, and its very obvious. Do a little research, they've done plenty of studies on why men are more prone to play and be better at video games. Of course there will be outliers, but time has proven that women simply are not as interested in competitive games as much as men are.
Its nice to see the rare women who do dedicate themselves to starcraft, but it shouldn't be a drama fest when someone decides to hold a female only tournament. Being sexist isn't necessarily wrong or evil here. There are plenty of tourneys for men. I thought men use Landmarks more o.O; I know I use landmarks more than streets.
http://searchengineland.com/human-hardware-men-women-and-how-we-find-our-way-14359
Its a pretty known in the field of psychology.
http://searchengineland.com/human-hardware-men-women-and-how-we-find-our-way-14359
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080204140115.htm
There is a good basis that men are innately more competitive and better at virtual navigation. However, remember that despite these differences its only speculative if it makes a huge difference or not.
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1344 Posts
as we believe that in order to measure true skill, the games has to be at LAN
I think we have a problem here.
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On October 22 2011 14:27 GertHeart wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:21 DaSakura wrote:On October 22 2011 14:06 Scrimpton wrote:On October 22 2011 12:59 DaSakura wrote:On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none Why so mad bro? Girls can be good, and they can beat boys too. I beated TT1 as well, and Desrow. I'll participate at this tournament and I think I can beat many of you, so stop QQing and accept that girls can get some advantage of being a girl. The whole point is that we already know girls can compete with boys, so drop the attitude. Stop mentioning your a girl every time you post, stream or start a game. it de-legitimises your persona of "nothing to prove" The attitude, rofl. It's not my problem if you can't accept that there's some people in the world who would like to see more female in E-sports for more than their physic, so they make tournament for them, to encourage them and let them a chance to prove that they're good. Go read some comments above, and after that you'll maybe understand my attitude: ''what a waste of money'', ''I'm all for e-sports, but... $10k for what? Mid-Masters level play?' By the way, I mentionned that I'm a girl just because I said that I'll participate in that tournament, so stop bming, I'm just trying to explain myself. Just ignore the guys like this :/, Having known a lot of gamer girls, they have a hard time online after guys realize they are actually girls quite often. Most guys treat guys differently, the moment you tell them they are a girl, the attitude changes towards you, they try to hook up with them, if rejected, then you are a shitty player and they call all your mistakes and count none of their own. I see bronze guys make fun of masters females saying they suck, yet they don't realize they are worse than the girls all the time. Here is some food for thought for you guys. If nada takes off his shirt and shows his abs, people are like "Cool, good for him that he is getting some modeling." if a Girl does it, it's "She's using her sex to get looks." Many guys fail to see the difference, because they were raised as "My daughter shouldn't have sex." while "Word, my son just got laid." Type of mind set. I was more raised by my sisters and my mother so I don't see this as much. What other people don't realize is, in business men will team up to destroy women first before they deal with each other, while women often don't team up with other women and try to fight everyone. The world is much more brutal for these female gamers. No matter what they do they are treated very different from guys. TL:DR A girl does something, she's bad. A guy does something, it's cool.
Just felt like pointing out some logical inconsistancies here. Firstly, not all guys try to hook up with gamer girls upon realizing they are female.That is a sweeping generalization, and even the ones that do are usually idiots. Second, people make fun of more skilled players all the time, this is a product of general immaturity (EX: "Oh, Goody sucks with his 60apm" has been thrown around often by bronze leaguers.)
Third: If nada takes off his shirt and shows his abs, he is NOT doing it to get fans. Nada has proven that he is a champion, repeatedly, and will have his reasons for taking off his shirt. If a girl does it and posts the pictures online, that is how she is selling herself (not as a gamer, but as a girl gamer). Nada doesn't need to take off his shirt to have fans.
The business part is irrelevant and off-topic. (and are you shitting me? Groups of girls will absolutely wreck other girls psychologically for no good reason) The ONLY thing that could possibly make the world "brutal" for female gamers would be that they don't have any friends playing, but hey, I only have 1 starcraft friend and I don't consider it brutal.
But hey, good for the girls in this tourney. While I wish it were an open tourney, I wish them the best of luck! And I hope they don't victimize themselves as much as you do for them, because with that attitude you can't be a winner.
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If I was a women I would find this kind of degrading. I dont know maybe I cant say because I`m not a woman, but It just feels like its saying that women physically cant compete which they arent but i beleive they can.
Edit* In regular sports it makes sense to me to have separate leagues, because men are biologically more strong. But since starcraft is all in the mind doesn't make men and women on equal footing?
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On October 22 2011 15:04 ampson wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:27 GertHeart wrote:On October 22 2011 14:21 DaSakura wrote:On October 22 2011 14:06 Scrimpton wrote:On October 22 2011 12:59 DaSakura wrote:On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none Why so mad bro? Girls can be good, and they can beat boys too. I beated TT1 as well, and Desrow. I'll participate at this tournament and I think I can beat many of you, so stop QQing and accept that girls can get some advantage of being a girl. The whole point is that we already know girls can compete with boys, so drop the attitude. Stop mentioning your a girl every time you post, stream or start a game. it de-legitimises your persona of "nothing to prove" The attitude, rofl. It's not my problem if you can't accept that there's some people in the world who would like to see more female in E-sports for more than their physic, so they make tournament for them, to encourage them and let them a chance to prove that they're good. Go read some comments above, and after that you'll maybe understand my attitude: ''what a waste of money'', ''I'm all for e-sports, but... $10k for what? Mid-Masters level play?' By the way, I mentionned that I'm a girl just because I said that I'll participate in that tournament, so stop bming, I'm just trying to explain myself. Just ignore the guys like this :/, Having known a lot of gamer girls, they have a hard time online after guys realize they are actually girls quite often. Most guys treat guys differently, the moment you tell them they are a girl, the attitude changes towards you, they try to hook up with them, if rejected, then you are a shitty player and they call all your mistakes and count none of their own. I see bronze guys make fun of masters females saying they suck, yet they don't realize they are worse than the girls all the time. Here is some food for thought for you guys. If nada takes off his shirt and shows his abs, people are like "Cool, good for him that he is getting some modeling." if a Girl does it, it's "She's using her sex to get looks." Many guys fail to see the difference, because they were raised as "My daughter shouldn't have sex." while "Word, my son just got laid." Type of mind set. I was more raised by my sisters and my mother so I don't see this as much. What other people don't realize is, in business men will team up to destroy women first before they deal with each other, while women often don't team up with other women and try to fight everyone. The world is much more brutal for these female gamers. No matter what they do they are treated very different from guys. TL:DR A girl does something, she's bad. A guy does something, it's cool. Just felt like pointing out some logical inconsistancies here. Firstly, not all guys try to hook up with gamer girls upon realizing they are female.That is a sweeping generalization, and even the ones that do are usually idiots. Second, people make fun of more skilled players all the time, this is a product of general immaturity (EX: "Oh, Goody sucks with his 60apm" has been thrown around often by bronze leaguers.) Third: If nada takes off his shirt and shows his abs, he is NOT doing it to get fans. Nada has proven that he is a champion, repeatedly, and will have his reasons for taking off his shirt. If a girl does it and posts the pictures online, that is how she is selling herself (not as a gamer, but as a girl gamer). Nada doesn't need to take off his shirt to have fans. The business part is irrelevant and off-topic. (and are you shitting me? Groups of girls will absolutely wreck other girls psychologically for no good reason) The ONLY thing that could possibly make the world "brutal" for female gamers would be that they don't have any friends playing, but hey, I only have 1 starcraft friend and I don't consider it brutal. But hey, good for the girls in this tourney. While I wish it were an open tourney, I wish them the best of luck! And I hope they don't victimize themselves as much as you do for them, because with that attitude you can't be a winner.
I find it silly that you are saying there are inconsistencies, when you yourself are showing exactly what I am talking about.
It's her personality and she will get judged much more harshly for doing it. You yourself did it in the nada example the exact thing I said "Because he is a proven champion." It doesn't matter if he is or isn't. If you call one a whore for doing it, then call nada a whore too. I prefer to call both just being themselves and doing whatever they want.
Also, girls enter open tournaments, just not many. But more and more will enter them because of events like this.
It's a good start. What I don't get is, this doesn't hurt anyone and it helps to grow esports in another demographic but so many guys complain "It should be an open tournament." There are so many already, stop caring about that, 10k is a drop in the bucket compared to how much open tournaments have given out already.
I wish you the best of luck and I really hope you see that you are possibly one of those guys who is "Tina, you have to be home by 7, son you can be home whenever." Types without possibly realizing it.
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only girl tourny=sexist. just sayin
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On October 22 2011 15:52 GertHeart wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 15:04 ampson wrote:On October 22 2011 14:27 GertHeart wrote:On October 22 2011 14:21 DaSakura wrote:On October 22 2011 14:06 Scrimpton wrote:On October 22 2011 12:59 DaSakura wrote:On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none Why so mad bro? Girls can be good, and they can beat boys too. I beated TT1 as well, and Desrow. I'll participate at this tournament and I think I can beat many of you, so stop QQing and accept that girls can get some advantage of being a girl. The whole point is that we already know girls can compete with boys, so drop the attitude. Stop mentioning your a girl every time you post, stream or start a game. it de-legitimises your persona of "nothing to prove" The attitude, rofl. It's not my problem if you can't accept that there's some people in the world who would like to see more female in E-sports for more than their physic, so they make tournament for them, to encourage them and let them a chance to prove that they're good. Go read some comments above, and after that you'll maybe understand my attitude: ''what a waste of money'', ''I'm all for e-sports, but... $10k for what? Mid-Masters level play?' By the way, I mentionned that I'm a girl just because I said that I'll participate in that tournament, so stop bming, I'm just trying to explain myself. Just ignore the guys like this :/, Having known a lot of gamer girls, they have a hard time online after guys realize they are actually girls quite often. Most guys treat guys differently, the moment you tell them they are a girl, the attitude changes towards you, they try to hook up with them, if rejected, then you are a shitty player and they call all your mistakes and count none of their own. I see bronze guys make fun of masters females saying they suck, yet they don't realize they are worse than the girls all the time. Here is some food for thought for you guys. If nada takes off his shirt and shows his abs, people are like "Cool, good for him that he is getting some modeling." if a Girl does it, it's "She's using her sex to get looks." Many guys fail to see the difference, because they were raised as "My daughter shouldn't have sex." while "Word, my son just got laid." Type of mind set. I was more raised by my sisters and my mother so I don't see this as much. What other people don't realize is, in business men will team up to destroy women first before they deal with each other, while women often don't team up with other women and try to fight everyone. The world is much more brutal for these female gamers. No matter what they do they are treated very different from guys. TL:DR A girl does something, she's bad. A guy does something, it's cool. Just felt like pointing out some logical inconsistancies here. Firstly, not all guys try to hook up with gamer girls upon realizing they are female.That is a sweeping generalization, and even the ones that do are usually idiots. Second, people make fun of more skilled players all the time, this is a product of general immaturity (EX: "Oh, Goody sucks with his 60apm" has been thrown around often by bronze leaguers.) Third: If nada takes off his shirt and shows his abs, he is NOT doing it to get fans. Nada has proven that he is a champion, repeatedly, and will have his reasons for taking off his shirt. If a girl does it and posts the pictures online, that is how she is selling herself (not as a gamer, but as a girl gamer). Nada doesn't need to take off his shirt to have fans. The business part is irrelevant and off-topic. (and are you shitting me? Groups of girls will absolutely wreck other girls psychologically for no good reason) The ONLY thing that could possibly make the world "brutal" for female gamers would be that they don't have any friends playing, but hey, I only have 1 starcraft friend and I don't consider it brutal. But hey, good for the girls in this tourney. While I wish it were an open tourney, I wish them the best of luck! And I hope they don't victimize themselves as much as you do for them, because with that attitude you can't be a winner. I find it silly that you are saying there are inconsistencies, when you yourself are showing exactly what I am talking about. It's her personality and she will get judged much more harshly for doing it. You yourself did it in the nada example the exact thing I said "Because he is a proven champion." It doesn't matter if he is or isn't. If you call one a whore for doing it, then call nada a whore too. I prefer to call both just being themselves and doing whatever they want. Also, girls enter open tournaments, just not many. But more and more will enter them because of events like this. It's a good start. What I don't get is, this doesn't hurt anyone and it helps to grow esports in another demographic but so many guys complain "It should be an open tournament." There are so many already, stop caring about that, 10k is a drop in the bucket compared to how much open tournaments have given out already. I wish you the best of luck and I really hope you see that you are possibly one of those guys who is "Tina, you have to be home by 7, son you can be home whenever." Types without possibly realizing it.
The obvious discrepancy that you are ignoring is that famous girls in this community so far have an unfortunate track record of using their bodies to get fans and get some (usually short lived) e-fame, whereas a proven champion used their dedication and skill to get recognition.
I hope you were ignoring the discrepancy in a vain attempt to make your viewpoint seem stronger, the alternative would be unfortunate!
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On October 21 2011 16:15 Derpmallow wrote:
Not to be shooting this kind of idea down, but I feel like Esports is one of those places where being female should be the least big of a deal - rather than focusing on heavy physical activity, it's based around nimble fingermovements, memorization of patterns and the ability to think logically under stress. So I guess I don't get why we need a specific league for something where there's literally nothing stopping a girl from being damn good at the game, just as good as any guy.
Still, if this is the first step towards working in a new demographic, or simply helping more casual players see that there is an opportunity in the pro scene, more power to you and this idea. Hope it goes well!
Pretty much.
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On October 22 2011 15:16 gogatorsfoster wrote:
If I was a women I would find this kind of degrading. I dont know maybe I cant say because I`m not a woman, but It just feels like its saying that women physically cant compete which they arent but i beleive they can.
Edit* In regular sports it makes sense to me to have separate leagues, because men are biologically more strong. But since starcraft is all in the mind doesn't make men and women on equal footing?
I find it quite amusing since you are posting on a website that has hosted two of the biggest non-Korean SC tournament. I personally believe non-Koreans physically compete with Koreans *rolls eyes*, now you see that's not the issue at all. A certain group has gotten better at a discipline than another, whether it is because the other group had a head start, had a better learning methods or had more interest in that disciple. It is quite alright to have a female only tournament, like there were non-Korean only tournaments and like there are American only Soccer tournaments, or Asian games. It's not about "equal" in terms of race and gender, men are ahead for a reason, most likely interest in the game, this is not degrading in anyway. That's like saying American Soccer tournaments are degrading or TSL1 and TSL2 were degrading.
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On October 22 2011 19:36 ooni wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 15:16 gogatorsfoster wrote:
If I was a women I would find this kind of degrading. I dont know maybe I cant say because I`m not a woman, but It just feels like its saying that women physically cant compete which they arent but i beleive they can.
Edit* In regular sports it makes sense to me to have separate leagues, because men are biologically more strong. But since starcraft is all in the mind doesn't make men and women on equal footing? I find it quite amusing since you are posting on a website that has hosted two of the biggest non-Korean SC tournament. I personally believe non-Koreans physically compete with Koreans *rolls eyes*, now you see that's not the issue at all. A certain group has gotten better at a discipline than another, whether it is because the other group had a head start, had a better learning methods or had more interest in that disciple. It is quite alright to have a female only tournament, like there were non-Korean only tournaments and like there are American only Soccer tournaments, or Asian games. It's not about "equal" in terms of race and gender, men are ahead for a reason, most likely interest in the game, this is not degrading in anyway. That's like saying American Soccer tournaments are degrading or TSL1 and TSL2 were degrading.
Rather than argue in the thread, I'll agree with this guy. He put it into better words than me.
I don't see it hurting ESports, only helping. People should try to force themselves to accept that there can be more than one kind of tournament.
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If dudes keep on claiming BS like it was being equal opportunity for girls to participate in big standard tournaments, which it is not if you take the time to look at the actual circumstances, sc2 will keep on being an everlasting sausage party.
Sexism is not about what is theoretically imaginable but about the actual, practical situation and what steps are taken to influence certain trends. Just having a tournaments ruleset not excluding women for example doesnt mean it is generally as easy for a girl to compete there.
Its great to see that Zowie doesnt mind any sexist haters (including those who come up with some flawed simpleton logic to claim theyre not sexist or even better that the tournament was sexist) and takes an active step for a more diverse competitive scene.
Having female tournaments with high prize pools will give girl gamers a reason to play competitive which they otherwise do not have at the moment. Thumbs up.
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On October 22 2011 14:21 DaSakura wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 14:06 Scrimpton wrote:On October 22 2011 12:59 DaSakura wrote:On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none Why so mad bro? Girls can be good, and they can beat boys too. I beated TT1 as well, and Desrow. I'll participate at this tournament and I think I can beat many of you, so stop QQing and accept that girls can get some advantage of being a girl. The whole point is that we already know girls can compete with boys, so drop the attitude. Stop mentioning your a girl every time you post, stream or start a game. it de-legitimises your persona of "nothing to prove" The attitude, rofl. It's not my problem if you can't accept that there's some people in the world who would like to see more female in E-sports for more than their physic, so they make tournament for them, to encourage them and let them a chance to prove that they're good. Go read some comments above, and after that you'll maybe understand my attitude: ''what a waste of money'', ''I'm all for e-sports, but... $10k for what? Mid-Masters level play?'' By the way, I mentionned that I'm a girl just because I said that I'll participate in that tournament, so stop bming, I'm just trying to explain myself.
Umm it's invite only...
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They shouldn't separate guys and girls, everyone should play together... mabye do a few tournaments to get some girls into sc2, but after that... Don't make gender a requirment of playing in a tournament.
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EPT
