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On October 22 2011 15:52 GertHeart wrote:
What I don't get is, this doesn't hurt anyone and it helps to grow esports
jealousy? retarded matcho idiots? put whatever you want in, all with a piece of working brain will know that it is true.
i follow female esport a long time and i worked for a female team too, i have seen Girls that kick ass and i have seen the stereotype of female gamers. That say they can play as good as males but they actually never showed it. I can accept female tournaments and i have no problem cause in reality. Even if a female is as good as a male she has a hard time getting a practise partner. Simple cause men wont get beaten up buy a girl. Was true in Quake, is still true in counterstrike, was true in warcraft 3 and will stay true in starcraft 2.
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Another thing that would affect female gamers is the community as a whole. Imagine a girl gamer having the skill of a Nestea. Wouldn't that be amazing!?! No think about how much shit she would have to deal with if she had a body/looks (by comparison) like Sheth. I wouldn't wanna deal with that bull shit. No one fucks with sheth cause he the nicest guy ever and because he just cool. But if that was a women that would be what 90% (<-- pulled that number out my ass) of what people would talk about.
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On November 04 2011 23:51 leveller wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 23:17 ishyishy wrote:
I will just say that prize pool is not the only important factor when holding a tournament. It should be interesting at the least. I really hope the casters are not female too or else it would seem a little too awkward.
IMO the community needs to get away from this separation. At the moment it seems like its either a "anyone can enter" tournament or a "female only" tournament. Why does it have to be female only? The day when we have a "male only" tournament, everyone will flip tables and make a big deal over it. Girl players will say this is a sexist outrage in an attempt to bring it down. But, when something like this happens, most people show sympathy and be glad for female players.
This just seems wrong to me. This is a video game. It isnt like a contact sport where it has physical limitations on the human body (however there are female contact sports). This isnt the naturally stronger male human body vs the naturally lesser strong female human body (this isnt a flame or a troll, it's science). This is mind vs mind.
Any tournament should allow everyone and anyone, period. This is bad for esports imo.
On top of that, I think that it's stuff like this that generates the disrespect towards females in general. They never want to have anything to do with competing vs males. Having a female only tournament only gives more reason for haters to flame the female gaming community. It should be ONE community, not 2. If female players get discouraged because they have to compete vs male players, then it's their own damn fault. News flash: male players get intimidated too!!!! They get scared too!!!!! You dont get it... Anyone is free to host any tournament with whatever qualifications he wants. If I had 5000 dollars laying around I could have a tournament only for swedish people, or only for toss players, or only for left handed players... This is just like the old Team liquid star leagues, where koreans were banned from competing. That helped the foreign community, because if koreans were allowed noone would even have taken a game off them. Just like this will help women to get into the community more. Eventually sure tournaments should be open to everyone but we are not there yet and this is a step in the right direction.
Surely anyone is free to host any sexist tournament they want, however, you claim this will help women get in to starcraft 2 more. Did you mean attractive women? Because looking at 7/8's of the pictures this tournament is really advertising that if you are a good looking female you can compete for $5k with basic skills way lower than ANY pro male. I can't see how this helps esports at all.
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On November 09 2011 14:34 Shel wrote:
I just looked at the thread announcing the players. They have pictures of all of the girls. All but one of them is really good looking, casters included. Not just moderately attractive, but frickin hot. This is bullshit.
Yeah, they should pick ugly girls instead of those that have won tournaments, are ranked high on ladder or have been gamers for many years. Disqualifying players for being too good looking would have been just fair and I'm sure the girls would understand.
P.S. If you didn't actually mean to criticize the tournament with your "This is bullshit" utterance, then please just disregard this post.
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Maniac, don't be an idiot. The girls were hand selected. The reason Divina gave for not having an online qualifier is that you can't accurately determine the skill of a player online. That true skill can only be determined based on LANs. Only one of these girls has competed in a major LAN, and that's Flo. One of the girls is a diamond player. 4 are masters and one is GM. I'm not suggesting that it's not ok to pick attractive women. I'm saying that these women were picked because they are attractive. The only one that isn't pretty damn good looking is the GM.
Divina is putting on a publicity show. They are using these girls to get viewers and the word of their products out. They are manipulating the men in the SC2 community by using sex as a draw to their event. This tournament doesn't even have the APPEARANCE of being about gaming, based on the facts that they had no online qualifiers, it's female only, the women selected were almost all hot, and the reason they gave for not having a qualifier was not only a stupid one, but they didn't even stick to it. Like I said before, this is bullshit.
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I'm somewhat conflicted by this. I am not usually for the segregation of genders in this type of thing. there really isn't anything keeping girls from doing what the guys do except a drive to succeed. If they don't have that, what's the point.
On the other hand I can see why a platform for girls to experience the culture would be a good thing...
I don't know, its an iffy subject but I am more for it than against it.
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On November 09 2011 16:57 Shel wrote:
Maniac, don't be an idiot. The girls were hand selected. The reason Divina gave for not having an online qualifier is that you can't accurately determine the skill of a player online. That true skill can only be determined based on LANs. Only one of these girls has competed in a major LAN, and that's Flo. One of the girls is a diamond player. 4 are masters and one is GM. I'm not suggesting that it's not ok to pick attractive women. I'm saying that these women were picked because they are attractive. The only one that isn't pretty damn good looking is the GM.
Divina is putting on a publicity show. They are using these girls to get viewers and the word of their products out. They are manipulating the men in the SC2 community by using sex as a draw to their event. This tournament doesn't even have the APPEARANCE of being about gaming, based on the facts that they had no online qualifiers, it's female only, the women selected were almost all hot, and the reason they gave for not having a qualifier was not only a stupid one, but they didn't even stick to it. Like I said before, this is bullshit.
My point was that to me, it seems that (almost) all of the girls are deserving enough to be there (except perhaps the diamond player, which I shall admit seems a little odd. However, I would accept that perhaps they want their European girl to be Swedish, since there are Swedes in GSL). And, given my premise that they're deserving enough to be there, it would be unfair towards the girls to exclude them in order to get some sort of equal ratio between the pretty girls and the ugly girls (a classification, by the way, which I don't care for one bit, but that's a whole other discussion and I'm assuming for the sake of argument that there are "objectively ugly girls").
However, I propose we end this discussion short. Since you think that Flo is the only one deserving to go there, and I think that there are at least four others, we'd be talking at cross-purposes (that is, not really about the same thing, if I managed to use that idiom correctly) if we continue talking about pretty and ugly girls. But I hope I've managed to explain what I meant.
However, I do believe that the invitational should have had more invites (although I do realize that it may not have been financially feasible). If there had been ~16 players, I guess most would have been able to see their favourite go, and we wouldn't be having as many posts about who's deserving or not.
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You misunderstood. I don't think Flo is the only one qualified to go. According to Divina's reason for not having an online qualifier, Flo is the only one qualified to go. I don't know these girls. I know Flo is an MLG badass, and I know another girl is a GM, so certainly they both deserve to be there. But you can't go to SC2Ranks and search for the top 6 girls. How did they even find these women? And there is no way to determine what level any of them are at in terms of who is the best female. I would guess the GM is probably the best in the world, given that she's not only GM but GM on KR. But are there any other female GMs? Female 1800+ masters? There's no way to know for sure.
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On November 10 2011 02:53 iMAniaC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 16:57 Shel wrote:
Maniac, don't be an idiot. The girls were hand selected. The reason Divina gave for not having an online qualifier is that you can't accurately determine the skill of a player online. That true skill can only be determined based on LANs. Only one of these girls has competed in a major LAN, and that's Flo. One of the girls is a diamond player. 4 are masters and one is GM. I'm not suggesting that it's not ok to pick attractive women. I'm saying that these women were picked because they are attractive. The only one that isn't pretty damn good looking is the GM.
Divina is putting on a publicity show. They are using these girls to get viewers and the word of their products out. They are manipulating the men in the SC2 community by using sex as a draw to their event. This tournament doesn't even have the APPEARANCE of being about gaming, based on the facts that they had no online qualifiers, it's female only, the women selected were almost all hot, and the reason they gave for not having a qualifier was not only a stupid one, but they didn't even stick to it. Like I said before, this is bullshit. My point was that to me, it seems that (almost) all of the girls are deserving enough to be there (except perhaps the diamond player, which I shall admit seems a little odd. However, I would accept that perhaps they want their European girl to be Swedish, since there are Swedes in GSL). And, given my premise that they're deserving enough to be there, it would be unfair towards the girls to exclude them in order to get some sort of equal ratio between the pretty girls and the ugly girls (a classification, by the way, which I don't care for one bit, but that's a whole other discussion and I'm assuming for the sake of argument that there are "objectively ugly girls"). However, I propose we end this discussion short. Since you think that Flo is the only one deserving to go there, and I think that there are at least four others, we'd be talking at cross-purposes (that is, not really about the same thing, if I managed to use that idiom correctly) if we continue talking about pretty and ugly girls. But I hope I've managed to explain what I meant. However, I do believe that the invitational should have had more invites (although I do realize that it may not have been financially feasible). If there had been ~16 players, I guess most would have been able to see their favourite go, and we wouldn't be having as many posts about who's deserving or not.
Well is there any ugly girls that popular and good at the game so they could invite? Nope, so they just invite whoever they want. What's your problem? Flo is good, Rainbow's gf is master on Kr server so she's much better than lots of NA GM as well. Just wait and see how it's gonna turn out will you? If you dislike this, just leave.
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On November 10 2011 04:19 Shel wrote:
You misunderstood. I don't think Flo is the only one qualified to go. According to Divina's reason for not having an online qualifier, Flo is the only one qualified to go. I don't know these girls. I know Flo is an MLG badass, and I know another girl is a GM, so certainly they both deserve to be there. But you can't go to SC2Ranks and search for the top 6 girls. How did they even find these women? And there is no way to determine what level any of them are at in terms of who is the best female. I would guess the GM is probably the best in the world, given that she's not only GM but GM on KR. But are there any other female GMs? Female 1800+ masters? There's no way to know for sure.
Oh, okay. You're right, I misunderstood. Still, their basis for choosing those girls aren't as shaky as you think. I, too, hadn't heard about most of them before, but if you take a look at their Liquipedia pages (that's right, most of them actually have LP pages now!), you'll see that ColaGirl has won a WCG (so she has LAN experience, even though it's WC3), and SSQ got sponsored as a progamer in 2005 and has played against Moon in a showmatch (but again, in WC3).
As for the three remaining ones, I can't find any major LAN background, so if we agree that only half of the girls match the criteria that the organizers set up, I guess that's a good compromise, eh? 
And tuho, did you mean to quote me or Shel? I tried to argue, just as you did, that it's okay for them to invite the girls that have been invited. ... I seem to fail at communication in this thread :/
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GL to the girls! always good to know that there are girls playing sc2 as well :D
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They need to invite Aurora from PMS, long time streamer Master Zerg player, 1st place Ironlady Cup, great player hope she gets the invite.
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I'm in H2O, the male side of PMS. Aurora is awesome. But winning an ironlady cup isn't that big of a deal. I mean, it requires some badass skill, no doubt, but I think Flo has 3, another one of the girls in the tourney has a number of other online cups. Now that I think about it, I think we picked up Aurora BECAUSE she beat Flo in an ironlady...I don't remember. I definitely think she would have been a good candidate though. Maybe she was one of the girls they didn't pick?
So there is another thread where the guy talks about the selection process. He said he could only find 12 SC2 female gamers, and of them he picked "the best according to reputation in the community." Whatever. I have no idea how a diamond player gets a rep for being one of the best in any community...still seems like a load of crap to me.
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which one is the diamond player? because SsQRush was Master on AM server and now Master on CN server if its the same person
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It's the Swedish girl. The one with a J in her name.
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EPT
