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"ZOWIE knows that female gamers are trying very hard to be accepted in the community for their effort and dedication in the games they play, rather than just for “being a girl in a male world”, but as many girls are driven to play with other girls, it is hard for them to be generally accepted for their individual skills."
It's very fucking easy for girls to get accepted in this community, be genuinely good at the game funnily enough that's the same criteria we expect from male gamers too.
Every time a girl streams or posts its started with "I'm a female on the NA server" or "watch this girl own up the ladder". If a female wants to prove her skills at the game(or determination/commitment), perhaps try the approach of letting your skill spread around the internet, rather than shots from a magazine.
Unfortunate that you have now gone down the road of separating girls, and 'admitting' that they can't compete with males.
A pink mouse won't repair a "fractured community", not treating females like retards who need a kiddy pool not to drown, that will fix things.
Unfortunately im afraid this post will be seen as misguided "hate" towards women, by the whiteknights of the community. In fact it's just sheer shame at the way the white knights insist on treating women as children who need special rules in an environment in which we should all be equal.
such a shame
Really lucky break for a couple of females I guess!
Using the 'controversy' to ensure viewers is a nice move by the PR guys behind this too! Push the wedge in deeper to split us all up, whilst pretending to be soothing the problem. Smart!
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I just hope the tournament is really exciting.
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I'm all for supporting women in e-sports, but doing something like this isn't exactly what I imagined. I understand that females aren't doing as well as males, but that's not because they're inferior. It's been proven multiple times that girls can play Starcraft just as well as guys. Forcing segregation in the community by actually separating the tournaments, while being a nice gesture, only strengthens the untrue message that they can't compete.
A better course of action would be, in my opinion, not to host tournaments with larger prize pools only for girls (regardless of who it is, hosting larger tournaments with restrictions such as gender just feel like "because you can't do otherwise" acts), but to form support groups, advertise programs specifically geared towards training interested females, etc.
I'm not saying we shouldn't hold girl-only tournaments, but hosting a tournament like this and saying it's solely for promoting women in e-sports rather than just a fun event bugs me. We need to look for things that will help all demographics without dividing the community.
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Big props to Zowie ^^ bump!
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Why cant people just enjoy this for what it is without having to delve deeper into it. There are tons of bronze/silver/gold/plat tourneys all the time, and no one rages in those threads saying its not fair to the high rank players that bad players can have money tournaments. What makes this any different?
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On October 22 2011 11:14 Zeke50100 wrote:
I'm all for supporting women in e-sports, but doing something like this isn't exactly what I imagined. I understand that females aren't doing as well as males, but that's not because they're inferior. It's been proven multiple times that girls can play Starcraft just as well as guys. Forcing segregation in the community by actually separating the tournaments, while being a nice gesture, only strengthens the untrue message that they can't compete.
A better course of action would be, in my opinion, not to host tournaments with larger prize pools only for girls (regardless of who it is, hosting larger tournaments with restrictions such as gender just feel like "because you can't do otherwise" acts), but to form support groups, advertise programs specifically geared towards training interested females, etc.
I'm not saying we shouldn't hold girl-only tournaments, but hosting a tournament like this and saying it's solely for promoting women in e-sports rather than just a fun event bugs me. We need to look for things that will help all demographics without dividing the community.
Better watch out.... according to some people you're just an internet guy that likes to hate on things......
On October 22 2011 11:25 eXigent. wrote:
Why cant people just enjoy this for what it is without having to delve deeper into it. There are tons of bronze/silver/gold/plat tourneys all the time, and no one rages in those threads saying its not fair to the high rank players that bad players can have money tournaments. What makes this any different?
None of those are pro tourneys with a 5k prize and golden mouse?
I don't care that much about this sort of thing (anymore) just stating why people do.
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On October 22 2011 11:25 eXigent. wrote:
Why cant people just enjoy this for what it is without having to delve deeper into it. There are tons of bronze/silver/gold/plat tourneys all the time, and no one rages in those threads saying its not fair to the high rank players that bad players can have money tournaments. What makes this any different?
There's an actual difference between different leagues of skill rather than the superficial one related to gender.
A better comparison would be tournaments that ban Koreans, which doesn't happen often simply because we know there's no difference. If you ask people, they'll acknowledge that the only difference is the amount of time put in, etc. (although with the way things are going around here, though, I wouldn't be surprised if the stigma about Koreans has evolved into thinking there's an actual genetic difference, which is incredibly saddening).
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Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic.
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I wholeheartedly agree with Shel, especially the last paragraph.. this is just really sad.
It is a publicity parade in the guise of support, whilst there are worse things in the world right now, its that sort of systematic abuse of a situation that I find particularly disgusting and offensive. I'm really glad others are seeing through this.
Some form of web-based show that involved a couple of these female gamers, being given the opportunity to prove that infrastructure > Gender would have been much more appropriate, still completely unnecessary as we all know this already. Korean infrastructure > ours, they know how to play this game and they know how to practice it.
Implying anything else is simply racist.
Teams that work on providing infrastructure (like PMS) are doing a really good thing. PR stunts like this tournament take a shit over all that good work and intention
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On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic.
Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none
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i fully support this and i'm a gay male
edit: implying this concept of a female gaming league interests me and it's not coz of teh boobz
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pretty cool. $10k prize pool is unexpected, however, hopefully that will bring diversity to the gaming community. moreover, i wonder the skill level of the best female gamers, i've heard there was a gm female on either eu, us, or kr forgot which one, i'm interested nonetheless.
now on a side note, as terrible as this sounds, i look forward to seeing people get warned,temp banned, and perma banned because people post the stupidest shit, yet sometimes its a little funny.
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actually, WHY are people hating when the prize pool is so HUGE? this seems positive.
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On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none
Why so mad bro? Girls can be good, and they can beat boys too. I beated TT1 as well, and Desrow. I'll participate at this tournament and I think I can beat many of you, so stop QQing and accept that girls can get some advantage of being a girl.
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please avoid the nonsense of supporting girls in esports blah blah blah.
Why don't you support people based on skill first, and discriminate based on gender later?
I have no problem with pouring money into female esports because people in charge think that's where the advertising opportunities lie - that's only fair. But please don't pretend like it's some kind of a noble cause.
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On October 22 2011 12:59 DaSakura wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none Why so mad bro? Girls can be good, and they can beat boys too. I beated TT1 as well, and Desrow. I'll participate at this tournament and I think I can beat many of you, so stop QQing and accept that girls can get some advantage of being a girl.
why?
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On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none
aurora was a chick? I only saw the game footage. nice play but just a bit lacking before really competing at pro level. SHES the type of player SLayers should have picked up, not eve. (the picking out of eve is always my issue with that, not the idea behind it, well that too).
And @ Shell
Thanks for providing legitimate reason why this tourney is a fail (invite) and being the best person to respond (with two girls in your clan). What i'd really like to hear is THEIR opinions on this matter though if you can get them to post, or even make their own topic.
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This is sexist, plain and simple.
Small community events and things aimed at encouraging female participation are fine, but when you are throwing a tournament with a prize pool that rivals MLGs then it is plain wrong to exclude someone from that based on their gender. It should go to the most skilled player. This tournament being invite only just makes it even worse.
Unlike in sports there is no physical reason why women would be unable to compete with men. A sufficiently motivated woman has just as much chance of being good at this game as a man does.
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On October 22 2011 12:59 DaSakura wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 12:22 Bonkarooni wrote:On October 22 2011 11:39 Shel wrote:
Two of the best female players in NA are in my clan, PMS Flo and PMS Aurora. They both go to every MLG, fight through the open bracket, usually get knocked out by a high level pro in the winners round 2 or 3, then win a few in losers bracket before they meet a high level pro there. Neither of these girls was invited.
You can't have a 6 person tournament that has ANY relevance unless you're pulling from the best of the best, like Code S or MLG. NO woman has gotten a following aside from Eve, Megumi, and Tossgirl. That's 3, and there is ZERO evidence that they are even in the top 10 of female players.
Aside from that, having a female only tournament, while I understand the impulse, is ridiculous. It's kind of ingrained in us that you separate women from men in sports. But, as previous posters have said, that's because of physical differences. There is ZERO reason to do it in a computer game.
Having a female only tourney is ridiculous. Have a 6 person invite only female tournament for ten thousand dollars is offensive and sexist. These women are being used as props for publicity. They're being paraded. The people running this tournament don't care about female gaming or about promoting esports, they care about their company and what gimmicky bullshit they can pull to get attention. If they'd had an online qualifier, if they'd pulled players with top rankings in sc2 ranks, then that would at least RESEMBLE a real tournament. Why the big secret about who has been invited? Probably to stop people from publicly bashing their decisions. This company is pathetic. Im glad you came out and said this. I saw aurora (I think?) at IPL, she played really well, almost won vs TT1. She deserves respect. This tournament deserves none Why so mad bro? Girls can be good, and they can beat boys too. I beated TT1 as well, and Desrow. I'll participate at this tournament and I think I can beat many of you, so stop QQing and accept that girls can get some advantage of being a girl.
The whole point is that we already know girls can compete with boys, so drop the attitude.
Stop mentioning your a girl every time you post, stream or start a game. it de-legitimises your persona of "nothing to prove"
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EPT
