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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
On October 15 2011 10:54 Let it Raine wrote: most players are in agreement that protoss should not be doing as poorly as they have been. less all ins, more macro and then you get more wins. protoss "hopes" like sage all in more than you think. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On October 15 2011 11:03 GreyKnight wrote: protoss "hopes" like sage all in more than you think. Well that doesn't take away what he said about protoss  . | ||
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j0ker
275 Posts
On October 15 2011 10:59 nt-rAven wrote: no offense to jinro's opinion but every single protoss he named would get destroyed for the most part by the top level terran players, and yes you can look at the general but the maximum potential with all races at the highest level is really what tells the fundamental balances of each race, if you play each race perfectly u should have equal or similar results at top level, if not then either the players playing protoss arer horrible or its actually the race, he doesn't show sympathy for protoss, i didn't show sympathy for zerg or terran when protoss was the best, its quite common u will hear this kind of response from any none protoss.... thats the thing though, its hard to say that protoss has been played at the highest level. as jinro alluded to, the toss mainstays in code s were generally very cheesy and timing attack oriented. mc was the undisputed champion of protoss but is now in code b and it would be dishonest to say that he was playing a robust, macro style of toss. its tough to say toss has been playing their game with maximum potential when warp prism tactics are just now seeing the light of day and toss seemingly just remembered how powerful their upgrades can be. the only issue that could possibly remain is ghost range being a bit too strong. | ||
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On October 15 2011 11:01 s3rp wrote: MC may have the multitasking but not the smarts to keep up with Terrans ( and Zergs ) .He alot of times goes from genius to total idiot in a matter of seconds and takes risks way too big. I feel like the risk thing is really overblown. Tyler says it once and now everyone makes it sound like he goes Nexus first every game. I don't see him take many risks actually, he just has too much of an allin mentality. | ||
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nt-rAven
Canada405 Posts
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On October 15 2011 10:54 Let it Raine wrote: most players are in agreement that protoss should not be doing as poorly as they have been. less all ins, more macro and then you get more wins. I dunno about that. Lately I have been seeing a more macro style of play and a lot of the Protoss QQ actually comes from macro games. Ghost's EMP pretty much have been destroying Protoss' late game and that results from macro games. Stargate play vs Zerg have been continuously been destroyed despite how much it seems to do and that is from macro games. Taking a 3rd against Zerg also seemed really hard in pro games. I really hate it when people just spout nonsense ffs. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On October 15 2011 11:17 K3Nyy wrote: I dunno about that. Lately I have been seeing a more macro style of play and a lot of the Protoss QQ actually comes from macro games. Ghost's EMP pretty much have been destroying Protoss' late game and that results from macro games. Stargate play vs Zerg have been continuously been destroyed despite how much it seems to do and that is from macro games. Taking a 3rd against Zerg also seemed really hard in pro games. I really hate it when people just spout nonsense ffs. But your the one spouting non sense. I see tosses take thirds vs zergs just fine a lot of the time when they try for it... There isn't much zvp in GSL so again if your going by that most don't even try taking a third they just do 2 base all ins. He was not spouting non sense at all. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On October 15 2011 11:07 K3Nyy wrote: I feel like the risk thing is really overblown. Tyler says it once and now everyone makes it sound like he goes Nexus first every game. I don't see him take many risks actually, he just has too much of an allin mentality. It's not Nexus first more like stupid risks. Like moving big parts of his army into the opponents base / position blindly to maybe snipe something and then losing it and subsequently losing the game. That happened ALOT recently at least as much as his stupid all-ins. | ||
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koolaid1990
831 Posts
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
On October 15 2011 11:19 blade55555 wrote: But your the one spouting non sense. I see tosses take thirds vs zergs just fine a lot of the time when they try for it... There isn't much zvp in GSL so again if your going by that most don't even try taking a third they just do 2 base all ins. He was not spouting non sense at all. In GSL, from what I remember, a lot of Protoss go Stargate and harass a bit then try to go Colo while taking a 3rd. At this point Zerg maxes out and Protoss is stuck at around 130-140 supply and Zerg just overwhelms. And what about PvT.. do you see a lot of 2 base allins there? I'm not arguing anything about balance or whatever if that's what I'm sounding like. I'm arguing against the fact that everyone seems to think Protoss allins every other game. Plus, it's not like Zergs and Terrans don't do timing attacks right? By the way, I played you before on ladder or a tourney before LOL. ><"!! | ||
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On October 15 2011 11:30 K3Nyy wrote: In GSL, from what I remember, a lot of Protoss go Stargate and harass a bit then try to go Colo while taking a 3rd. At this point Zerg maxes out and Protoss is stuck at around 130-140 supply and Zerg just overwhelms. And what about PvT.. do you see a lot of 2 base allins there? I'm not arguing anything about balance or whatever if that's what I'm sounding like. I'm arguing against the fact that everyone seems to think Protoss allins every other game. Plus, it's not like Zergs and Terrans don't do timing attacks right? By the way, I played you before on ladder or a tourney before LOL. ><"!! lol ^^ whats your username (just curious!) .Well pvt emp does seem really strong I will give you that in pvz though I think a macro style is fine once more and more tosses get used to doing it and its shown in succession a little lately when tosses go into macro games their winning more then when they 2 base all in (huk vs zenio, kiwi vs stephano are 2 quick ones that come to mind). Haven't seen to much zvp lately where the toss goes macro and there are of course games where a zerg beats a toss who went macro but their normally a lot closer then when the toss 2 base all ins then gets rolled xD. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20321 Posts
On October 15 2011 11:03 GreyKnight wrote: protoss "hopes" like sage all in more than you think. Zerg can hit 100 drones before protoss can hit 60 probes if they rush third base, meanwhile terran has the best harassment capability in the game and can ALSO sustain higher minerals/minute than toss using mules. Macro protoss is vunerable to so so many things, and HuK said he gave up on trying to get a really fast third base in any matchup because you simply dont have the units to defend one early (i think before 12-13 minutes or so at the earliest) | ||
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TheBomb
237 Posts
Even ultralisks and/or roaches are no match for marauders so that just goes to show how imba they are. And a lot of times even siege tanks are not enough to deal with marauders. | ||
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NNTP
Canada47 Posts
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BroboCop
United States373 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
People forget that in BW PvZ had the +1 speedlot archon timming as the standard in games. That got figured out, P were suffering for a long time and then Bisu figured out an alternative/ Stuff like that takes a long time to figure out. But yeah this is a wait and see situation IMO. If nothing comes up then sure go ahead and ask Blizzard to patch it, but so far I feels its been too little time. Edit: Thanks for the video, how rude of me | ||
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DeadCell
Canada256 Posts
thanks for the link though, never would have found this myself. | ||
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RezChi
Canada2368 Posts
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Reapher
Peru131 Posts
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