EPTIs the « spoiler fear » hurting E-sports ? - Page 54
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We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled. | ||
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David451
United States491 Posts
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David451
United States491 Posts
The policy towards spoilers here is what separates the gentlemen from the troglodytes. If little boys can't handle keeping spoilers in their pants for at least 24 hours after a major tournament, they can go to /r/starcraft to let off some spoiler cum. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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sopas
509 Posts
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David451
United States491 Posts
Sorry if you think I'm killing eSports. | ||
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David451
United States491 Posts
On December 18 2011 18:24 sopas wrote: You can click the arrows next to sc2 sections the previous day if you think u could be spoiled the next day but still "have to!!11!" come to tl before watching it. And you could go to your tournament thread and click the relevant "SPOILERS" link if you need to. TL is a community site, not just an SC2 results site. | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
The crux of the problem is that people want to catch the vods of the match. Maybe if we can just separate these 2 things, we can have a lot more hype in TL? | ||
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sopas
509 Posts
On December 18 2011 18:30 David451 wrote: And you could go to your tournament thread and click the relevant "SPOILERS" link if you need to. TL is a community site, not just an SC2 results site. well u're just asking to be spoiled no matter how harsh the spoiler rules were if u do it like u wrote above, rules seem silly anyway since even based on this poll only a massive minority care about it. but i guess its nice to have rules. | ||
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ghosthunter
United States414 Posts
Being unable to discuss relevant matches due to spoiler delay can lead to an issue of involvement. Live-report threads are not an effective means of actually discussing anything post-match. With the increasing amount of content available, we need to be able to talk about events in a timely manner. For those who have not had a chance to watch the match yet, we need a better means of preventing issues. I remember back in Brood Wars, there was a 48-hour delay on Spoilers. I feel that fit the scene better back then because technology was less streamlined back then, even two years ago. As well, there wasn't as much content back then, which meant a two day delay would not be the end of the world. The increasing amount of foreigner tournaments and others that fill incredibly large amounts of times should justify decreasing the gag-time. A 2-day delay on talking about events kills the hype and engagement. Two days ago was the round of 6. If we waited, there's nothing to be said, the hype dies down. Tbh, in a strange similar vein, there was a lack of a gag order on the Naniwa-Nestea incident. If there was a two day delay on that, a lot of the angst might have been avoided. Team Liquid is a discussion forum devoted to Starcraft 2. Being gagged eliminates much of that functionality. While yes, there is plenty of other parts to this site, I'm sure even people who are decrying spoilers want to see the game so they can form an opinion before engaging in the topics with others. If they are not aspiring to that engagement, there isn't much that couldn't be accomplished by just bookmarking the Starcraft 2 section or liquidpedia. For those who want to be engaged with the forums prior to watching, there lies the greatest problem. [Spoiler] in thread names solves some of the problems, but this also interferes with the discussion. I personally do not know of a solution, but I feel having extended delays on discussion is a hinderance to the community in the long run. I respect both sides of the argument as they both have very valid points. | ||
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SoniStreet
Macedonia98 Posts
It's funny how people expect the whole world to go silent just because they didn't watch a game. It's so selfish to have this personality. There are some rare cases where I didn't want to know score of something before I watch it - but I don't visit websites dedicated to the same sport... it's so silly. The Esport community needs to grow up and accept spoilers, and avoid them the way they should be avoided, not TeamLiquid trying to work harder just so you don't get spoiled. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On December 18 2011 18:35 poorcloud wrote: I guess there are those who want to catch the vods without being spoiled. But its just sad that there is no hype at all about big tourney wins and all that. Only liquid players seem to be able to hyped like Hero getting into the finals of dreamhack being spoiled by Liquid Team News section immediately after he won his semi finals. The crux of the problem is that people want to catch the vods of the match. Maybe if we can just separate these 2 things, we can have a lot more hype in TL? That got nothing to do with spoilers but lack of news writers. TL has never been about breaking news but in-depth write-ups. Having staff and writers available and ready 24/7 requires a whole different administration than having some voluntary writers working on pieces whenever they can fit it in in their spare time. If you want news, convince the administration to invest in a news team. Don't blame it on a fear of spoilers, those things are unrelated. On a side note, the poll in the OP got nothing to do with the use of spoiler tags in the forums. Live results would of course be terrific, removal of the spoiler policy would be terrible. | ||
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Malkavian183
Turkey227 Posts
On December 18 2011 18:55 SoniStreet wrote: I always thought hiding results was so stupid. If you don't watch something live it's not the same. So it won't matter if you got spoiled... so so so stupid. The feeling when watching something live is so different, you know it is happening RIGHT NOW and you are very excited. But I love being spoiled if the match passed. And like many have said, If you want to be kept under a rock... then keep your self under rock and don't visit TeamLiquid before watching your matches. . this. and i really don't want to search for results if i don't have enough time to catch up with ALL of the tournament (working and studing for master's degree you don't have much time any time) it is good to read results of tournaments. i do believe that this should be done! go TL! | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On December 18 2011 19:09 Apophenic wrote: this. and i really don't want to search for results if i don't have enough time to catch up with ALL of the tournament (working and studing for master's degree you don't have much time any time) it is good to read results of tournaments. i do believe that this should be done! go TL! Again, what does having a centralized result database (essentially http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Recent_Tournament_Results ) got to do with spoiler tags in the forums? | ||
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Lorch
Germany3703 Posts
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On December 18 2011 18:56 Longshank wrote: That got nothing to do with spoilers but lack of news writers. TL has never been about breaking news but in-depth write-ups. Having staff and writers available and ready 24/7 requires a whole different administration than having some voluntary writers working on pieces whenever they can fit it in in their spare time. If you want news, convince the administration to invest in a news team. Don't blame it on a fear of spoilers, those things are unrelated. On a side note, the poll in the OP got nothing to do with the use of spoiler tags in the forums. Live results would of course be terrific, removal of the spoiler policy would be terrible. This is pretty much it. TL front page articles have never been delayed because of any spoiler policy, they just have high standards for front page write-ups so it takes a bit. Live results are merely 1 click away from any page on TL in Recent Tournament Results. If you're really that lazy and can't bother to click the spoiler tags for results there, Premier Tournaments offers the latest big tournament results plain as day. It's kind of frustrating that people are demanding these things to be on the front page because spoilers don't bother them personally rather than 1 click away out of consideration for fellow members it might actually bother, especially considering this is 100% community driven. As for discussions about the latest games, no one's shutting down discussions at all. LR threads really are the place for discussing what just happened, but if you feel you have sufficient content to warrant a new thread by all means make one. You don't need 4 threads titled "OMGZ STEPHANO WON IPL3!!!!!11o!" to grab attention, and including a spoiler warning is enough to be free of any warning/ban. It's all about being considerate to other members of our community, and if you're not willing to put in the effort of clicking once for immediate results or typing "[Spoiler]" in a title for discussion, what right do you have to demand changes at the cost of others? | ||
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Malkavian183
Turkey227 Posts
On December 18 2011 19:27 Longshank wrote: Again, what does having a centralized result database (essentially http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Recent_Tournament_Results ) got to do with spoiler tags in the forums? i didn't know about that actually. i withdraw everything i said. thank you :D | ||
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poorcloud
Singapore2748 Posts
On December 18 2011 19:50 xBillehx wrote: This is pretty much it. TL front page articles have never been delayed because of any spoiler policy, they just have high standards for front page write-ups so it takes a bit. Live results are merely 1 click away from any page on TL in Recent Tournament Results. If you're really that lazy and can't bother to click the spoiler tags for results there, Premier Tournaments offers the latest big tournament results plain as day. It's kind of frustrating that people are demanding these things to be on the front page because spoilers don't bother them personally rather than 1 click away out of consideration for fellow members it might actually bother, especially considering this is 100% community driven. As for discussions about the latest games, no one's shutting down discussions at all. LR threads really are the place for discussing what just happened, but if you feel you have sufficient content to warrant a new thread by all means make one. You don't need 4 threads titled "OMGZ STEPHANO WON IPL3!!!!!11o!" to grab attention, and including a spoiler warning is enough to be free of any warning/ban. It's all about being considerate to other members of our community, and if you're not willing to put in the effort of clicking once for immediate results or typing "[Spoiler]" in a title for discussion, what right do you have to demand changes at the cost of others? I understand all your points then. Its certainly understandable to make TL more of a community page which is considerate of both viewers. After all, its only a small hassle for people who already watched the games to click the link. However courtesy certainly goes both ways. Inevitably, there will always be people who forget or miss on indicating spoilers. Could he have been give an warning to help remember? Yes probably. Do i need 10 pages worth of "You spoiled this fucker", which completely ruins the whole experience of viewing the TL forum, is OOT and marks this community as an immature one. A nice PM to the poster reminding him to put spoilers will do the trick. Perhaps there should be moderation of spoiler whiners, maybe warning/bans of these people. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On December 18 2011 20:02 poorcloud wrote: I understand all your points then. Its certainly understandable to make TL more of a community page which is considerate of both viewers. After all, its only a small hassle for people who already watched the games to click the link. However courtesy certainly goes both ways. Inevitably, there will always be people who forget or miss on indicating spoilers. Could he have been give an warning to help remember? Yes probably. Do i need 10 pages worth of "You spoiled this fucker", which completely ruins the whole experience of viewing the TL forum, is OOT and marks this community as an immature one. A nice PM to the poster reminding him to put spoilers will do the trick. Perhaps there should be moderation of spoiler whiners, maybe warning/bans of these people. On the point of spoiler whiners I completely agree. One messup can cause 10 pages of whining and it's not productive at all, so I totally understand how people can get frustrated at that. I'm all for more strict moderation of those that go overboard from a reminder to just being a dick about it. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On December 18 2011 20:02 poorcloud wrote: I understand all your points then. Its certainly understandable to make TL more of a community page which is considerate of both viewers. After all, its only a small hassle for people who already watched the games to click the link. However courtesy certainly goes both ways. Inevitably, there will always be people who forget or miss on indicating spoilers. Could he have been give an warning to help remember? Yes probably. Do i need 10 pages worth of "You spoiled this fucker", which completely ruins the whole experience of viewing the TL forum, is OOT and marks this community as an immature one. A nice PM to the poster reminding him to put spoilers will do the trick. Perhaps there should be moderation of spoiler whiners, maybe warning/bans of these people. I agree with Poorcloud, but the OP is wrong to disregard the interests of those people that can only watch vods. I've only watched vods without results once in my life, but I can still understand why people want to do it. If this were to kill discussion on recent results, I'd see a problem, but all it means is adding a [ SPOILER ] tag to the title, or, instead of "Player X wins tourney Y" you write "Winner of tourney Y". Not that big a difference for the thread to function, huge difference to those unfortunate that cannot watch the match due to obligations, time zones, etc. In fact, not doing it hurts the more vulnerable responsible demographic of TL, and we surely do not want to drive them away. Edit: more specific examples. | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
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