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Is the « spoiler fear » hurting E-sports ? - Page 52
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We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
Picture for anyone who can't find it: | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
a) I watch the game live, am on IRC and/or chatting with TL people all over the place. That's a satisfying live experience. b) I couldn't watch the game live. Even if I'm not spoilered the pure fact that there is nothing going on while I watch it makes it incomparable to any live event. Please tell me which games of the series are cool to watch and which aren't. To me watching a VOD after something happened would be equivalent to going to a major league football final in in empty stadium all by myself. If plain and simple results ruin your day because your favorite progamer won/lost and not for the games themself I think you're doing it wrong. I think the main problem is that the "I want spoilers"-crew, while being a pretty small minority, is also pretty damn zealous about it. If the vote in the OP would allow multiple votes, I'm sure the results would be turned upside down. =P | ||
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arsenic
United States163 Posts
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GhostLink
United States450 Posts
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Moa
United States790 Posts
Think about the recent thread about + Show Spoiler + MMA winning the blizzard cup some would argue that you shouldn't go to sites about starcraft if you don't want something spoiled but there is much to discuss in the starcraft world other than the results of recent series and pragmatically there is a lot to be lost and nothing to be gained over spoilers. Also very importantly TL is not a site that has a known official policy on spoilers so you do not know whether or not you will be spoiled going to this site. As for /r/starcraft you know that the top post will almost always be recent results so you can avoid it but TL is unknown territory. Ideally TL should either embrace spoilers and make it known that they will be on the site or ban people who do spoil and make it known that there will be no spoilers within a reasonable amount of time. | ||
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ambrosiaa
Singapore333 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:22 Moa wrote: The spoiler fear absolutely is necessary. Think about it this way, what does one have to gain from having spoilers, ABSOLUTELY nothing. There is no advantage to having spoilers relative to the disadvantage of ruining series for people who didn't watch them the moment they happened. Think about the recent thread about + Show Spoiler + MMA winning the blizzard cup some would argue that you shouldn't go to sites about starcraft if you don't want something spoiled but there is much to discuss in the starcraft world other than the results of recent series and pragmatically there is a lot to be lost and nothing to be gained over spoilers. Also very importantly TL is not a site that has a known official policy on spoilers so you do not know whether or not you will be spoiled going to this site. As for /r/starcraft you know that the top post will almost always be recent results so you can avoid it but TL is unknown territory. Ideally TL should either embrace spoilers and make it known that they will be on the site or ban people who do spoil and make it known that there will be no spoilers within a reasonable amount of time. Why isn't there much to be discussed? So topics relating to the game are useless / irrelevant? | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
Shouldn't be a hard question. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:22 Moa wrote: The spoiler fear absolutely is necessary. Think about it this way, what does one have to gain from having spoilers, ABSOLUTELY nothing. There is no advantage to having spoilers relative to the disadvantage of ruining series for people who didn't watch them the moment they happened. Think about the recent thread about + Show Spoiler + MMA winning the blizzard cup some would argue that you shouldn't go to sites about starcraft if you don't want something spoiled but there is much to discuss in the starcraft world other than the results of recent series and pragmatically there is a lot to be lost and nothing to be gained over spoilers. Sharing excitement about an event is something that's pretty normal in any community, whether on- or offline. I just don't understand how knowing the results of a series makes the games worse / unenjoyable / unbearable to watch for anyone. Just because I know the RESULT does not mean I know what exactly happened. If I'm a fan, I'll care about that. If I'm not into the game itself, I don't care. While I do understand that the policy over here is ages old and "traditional" I must admit that I can't think of any single sport in the world that is this afraid of spoilers. Can someone explain to me where this comes from? (Tradition doesn't count. >_>) (And yes, this question comes from someone who can't understand threads with 10 pages full of people complaining about spoilers since like 8 years or something. It always seems as if people are just bitchy because their fav lost and need to take it out somewhere.) | ||
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Ashenshugar
Sweden13 Posts
I don't go to bloody elbow & that's it.. Same thing with Teamliquid.. I wouldn't be suprised if I got spoilered coming here because guess what, this site is about sc2.. If I care about not being spoiled enough I don't go to this website.. I don't check my twitter & so forth.. Maybe TL doesn't have the aspiration to be the bloody elbow of sc2 but if they're delaying uploading articles for the sake of "spoiler" then that is their choice as a website.. One I'd disagree with though.. TLDR - You get spoiled it's your own fault - don't go anywhere you can get the results before you've watched the games you want to watch. Edit: Another reason I think people are so worried about spoilers.. People like the mystique & not knowing what is going to happen.. They don't really give a shit about seeing good starcraft being played so if the result is spoiled the games are "ruined" despite knowing the result doesn't change the level of starcraft 2 being played.. For me it's mixed.. sometimes knowing the result can make me feel "meh" about the games being played.. much of the sc2 being played right now isn't making me go "omfg how is he doing that".. Sometimes I'll watch the games despite knowing results because the players have potential to make awesome games.. Remember seeing some Vods & not knowing who was going to win & it was a real nailbiter got me on the edge of my seat & I got so invested in it & it was awesome.. I know that wouldn't have happened if I would've known the results.. still my tldr stands.. People just don't take responsibility... | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:27 r.Evo wrote: While I do understand that the policy over here is ages old and "traditional" I must admit that I can't think of any single sport in the world that is this afraid of spoilers. Can someone explain to me where this comes from? >_> All the important BW events were in Korean time so a majority of people could not watch it live. Obviously something that's not a big problem for SC2, only the GSL circuit is played in Korea, all the other important tournaments are played on EU or NA time meaning plenty of people can watch them live no problem. That said, the spoiler fear has grown to a pretty ridiculous point now. People rushing into a thread, screaming and bitching at the OP even though they weren't that interested in the results in the first place (or they would've 1) watched the games live or 2) exhibited some common sense and not visited the biggest SC2 news site in the world). | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7232 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:22 Moa wrote: The spoiler fear absolutely is necessary. Think about it this way, what does one have to gain from having spoilers, ABSOLUTELY nothing. There is no advantage to having spoilers relative to the disadvantage of ruining series for people who didn't watch them the moment they happened. Think about the recent thread about + Show Spoiler + MMA winning the blizzard cup some would argue that you shouldn't go to sites about starcraft if you don't want something spoiled but there is much to discuss in the starcraft world other than the results of recent series and pragmatically there is a lot to be lost and nothing to be gained over spoilers. Also very importantly TL is not a site that has a known official policy on spoilers so you do not know whether or not you will be spoiled going to this site. As for /r/starcraft you know that the top post will almost always be recent results so you can avoid it but TL is unknown territory. Ideally TL should either embrace spoilers and make it known that they will be on the site or ban people who do spoil and make it known that there will be no spoilers within a reasonable amount of time. You've got it completely backwards. The main topic of discussion in an e-sports forum are the games played. The spoilers stifle discussion on the main thing we come to the site for: tournament results discussion. It's difficult to count the amount of threads mods have to edit or change because people naturally go with the news angle of dicussing results. And all this to appease a tiny 7% of the user base. Especially now that VODs containing the games are contained, spoiler-free, on the tournament websites it makes sense for those very few, but extremely vocal, concerned about spoilers to watch the games there and THEN come to TL to join our discussions. | ||
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Moa
United States790 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:27 r.Evo wrote: Sharing excitement about an event is something that's pretty normal in any community, whether on- or offline. I just don't understand how knowing the results of a series makes the games worse / unenjoyable / unbearable to watch for anyone. Just because I know the RESULT does not mean I know what exactly happened. If I'm a fan, I'll care about that. If I'm not into the game itself, I don't care. While I do understand that the policy over here is ages old and "traditional" I must admit that I can't think of any single sport in the world that is this afraid of spoilers. Can someone explain to me where this comes from? (Tradition doesn't count. >_>) (And yes, this question comes from someone who can't understand threads with 10 pages full of people complaining about spoilers since like 8 years or something. It always seems as if people are just bitchy because their fav lost and need to take it out somewhere.) Other sports aren't built on people watching VoDs like SCII is. That is the reason the spoiler fear exists. Personally I think that worst case scenario this should all be kept to the SCII tourneys section. There is no issue with threads discussing important matches just with titles stating the results in them. Also I would LOVE to see something to establish what the majority of the community thinks about spoilers. Both sides have claimed to have the majority on their side but I would actually like to see proof from either. If I am the only person who cares about spoilers obviously it would be selfish for me to expect everyone else to conform to my view but I would wager that most people would rather not have spoilers in titles than have them. | ||
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Warlock40
601 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:27 r.Evo wrote: Sharing excitement about an event is something that's pretty normal in any community, whether on- or offline. I just don't understand how knowing the results of a series makes the games worse / unenjoyable / unbearable to watch for anyone. Just because I know the RESULT does not mean I know what exactly happened. If I'm a fan, I'll care about that. If I'm not into the game itself, I don't care. While I do understand that the policy over here is ages old and "traditional" I must admit that I can't think of any single sport in the world that is this afraid of spoilers. Can someone explain to me where this comes from? (Tradition doesn't count. >_>) (And yes, this question comes from someone who can't understand threads with 10 pages full of people complaining about spoilers since like 8 years or something. It always seems as if people are just bitchy because their fav lost and need to take it out somewhere.) It comes from the fact that people seem to treat GSL not as a sport, something that is happening live and is an ongoing event, but as a TV show, something they can watch an episode at a time at their leisure. | ||
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:30 Bobster wrote: All the important BW events were in Korean time so a majority of people could not watch it live. Obviously something that's not a big problem for SC2. It's still a problem considering it's global though. While some of us are awake the rest are asleep. Consideration for fellow members is always a good thing, wouldn't you agree?  The inconvenience of clicking 1 page away or visiting a different starcraft site designed for what you want vs the possibility of ruining someone's day. One option gives people a choice, the other takes it away. (It's fine if spoilers don't affect you personally but realize that other people do have different opinions) | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:32 Moa wrote: Other sports aren't built on people watching VoDs like SCII is. That is the reason the spoiler fear exists. Personally I think that worst case scenario this should all be kept to the SCII tourneys section. There is no issue with threads discussing important matches just with titles stating the results in them. Once again: Knowledge of the results does not compromise the quality of the series in any kind of way. If the games were bad I'm actually happy about being spoilered about it since I don't have to waste time watching crappy/onesided games. If I'm being told the games were good/close I'm more excited about checking the VOD. Actually, now that I think of, the older I get (this sounds so terrible >_<) the less I'm watching stuff live and the more I'm checking VODs AFTER I see a full report and someone saying "Game 3 of series X is a 5/5, watch that!!" Edit: On December 18 2011 14:35 Warlock40 wrote: It comes from the fact that people seem to treat GSL not as a sport, something that is happening live and is an ongoing event, but as a TV show, something they can watch an episode at a time at their leisure. This. Times and times again. Thanks for that post. Hopefully it gives someone people something to think about. <3 | ||
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Moa
United States790 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:36 r.Evo wrote: Once again: Knowledge of the results does not compromise the quality of the series in any kind of way. If the games were bad I'm actually happy about being spoilered about it since I don't have to waste time watching crappy/onesided games. If I'm being told the games were good/close I'm more excited about checking the VOD. Actually, now that I think of, the older I get (this sounds so terrible >_<) the less I'm watching stuff live and the more I'm checking VODs AFTER I see a full report and someone saying "Game 3 of series X is a 5/5, watch that!!" That is your personal opinion that spoilers don't compromise someone's enjoyment of the series. For many people including me they do. This isn't about any individuals opinions but the opinion of the general community. I have, and I would hope most of the community, have no issue with the discussion of series immediately after they happen but I think ambiguous titles should be required. I would even go so far as to have spoilers in titles be a banable or at least warnable offense because absolutely nobody benefits from spoiler titles and a good number of people would rather not have them. Also there is ALWAYS a way to create a thread with an ambiguous title and there is no excuse for a spoiler in the title. | ||
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Desirous
Canada95 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:38 Moa wrote: That is your personal opinion that spoilers don't compromise someone's enjoyment of the series. For many people including me they do. This isn't about any individuals opinions but the opinion of the general community. The general community, 93% of the people who voted in this very thread you're replying to in fact, seem to think results should be front page news. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On December 18 2011 14:38 Moa wrote: That is your personal opinion that spoilers don't compromise someone's enjoyment of the series. For many people including me they do. This isn't about any individuals opinions but the opinion of the general community. Agreed. Time to act based on the general community consensus! *looks at poll in the OP* | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
Keep the threads clean and improve discussion again (as was done in the strategy forum). | ||
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