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On October 14 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 03:36 Warblade! wrote:On October 14 2011 02:56 conz wrote:
Taking it away from the what's correct and legal, it's a shame because in a sense MLG and these bigger events are growing SC2 through advertising sc2, surely blizzard makes a ton off the people that watch the big crowds and hours of content then decide to buy or play the game. Doesn't seem fair. What exactly would seem fair to you? For those of you having such an issue with a possible revenue stream for Blizzard off of these tournaments, do you also bombard the forums of the NFL, NBA, MLB, FIFA, etc. complaining whenever they take a cut of revenue from broadcasted content of their respective sports? I think the point everyone is missing here is that the major tournaments themselves are doing quite well. We have MLG_Lee here personally defending Blizzard's right to a cut of the revenue and while he legally can't comment on it, I'm sure it's because he and the MLG are doing quite well regardless of that cut. And I'm sure it's the same for the GSL, IPL, Dreamhack, etc. I find it hilarious that people are trying to villify Blizzard so badly that they're missing the big picture that the eSports scene is EXPLODING right now. EVERYONE involved with the major events are making money - from the organizers to the progamers to the sponsors and yes even Blizzard. As a fan, it blows my mind that people will find any reason to complain about the current tournament and eSports scene when we as fans have more content than ever before and the scene is on the verge of blowing up into the mainstream thanks to these amazing games of SC2, BarCrafts forming as a result and the burgeoning possibilities of having eSports on broadcast television (P.S. thanks Sundance/MLG for working on getting this done!). If Blizzard were screwing things up as badly as the trolls are making them out to be, NONE of this would even be an issue. This would be a forum with 10 people discussing the merits of Supreme Commander or some other RTS as an esports game and how they're the only 10 people with the vision to see how it could maybe succeed as one with tournaments paying out hundreds of dollars to the top players! Time to inject a new opinion... I don't give a fuck what MLG Lee says or thinks. I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered for whatever Blizzard wants to spend it on (single-player casual bullshit). Theorycrafting right now, but I don't want MLG to be "fine". Fine is bullshit when it can be Good. Blizzard is choking out their IP, scarcity is real and it's inefficient to use our limited funds for what Blizzard wants (single-player casual bullshit). Blizzard isn't screwing up, but they aren't helping. Their patches and balancing is just fixing their original fuck-ups. They don't (or shouldn't) balance for meta-game. So they just need to balance for the original content, which they could've done before they even shipped it out instead of focusing on other things they did (single-player casual bullshit).
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say more people bought Starcraft 2 for the singleplayer experience rather than the competitive multiplayer. I have a bunch of people on my realID friends list that own the game. Probably close to 10. 3 of them have ever laddered. 1 of them has watched the GSL.
Blizzard probably made more money from people that bought the game for the singleplayer only, than they do on people that only care about multiplayer. I read about people on forums that talk about how they don't even like to play the game on ladder, they prefer to watch it, but I can guarantee that all of them will play the Heart of the Swarm campaign.
I think this based on my experiences.
And for the record, I like both.
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I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered...
Easy solution. Stop watching events with a 5k prize pool and E-mail sponsors telling them that you will not buy their products for sponsoring e-sport events where the game creator takes a portion of the ad revenues.
I'm surprised how many people are out there who want to legitimize one stream of profit (retail sales of a $60 game) but demonize the other (profiting from the game as a spectator sport).
I get the distinct feeling that people want Blizzard to promote and grow e-sports out of altruism and warm-fuzzy feelings and that growing e-sports because it will grow profits is inherently an awful evil thing.
If Blizzard gets too greedy. The market will punish them, there are plenty of other games out there that would love to be THE e-sport game.
One number I would like to see is how many of those dollars made from events will be re-invested into the game.
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On October 14 2011 03:36 Warblade! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 02:56 conz wrote:
Taking it away from the what's correct and legal, it's a shame because in a sense MLG and these bigger events are growing SC2 through advertising sc2, surely blizzard makes a ton off the people that watch the big crowds and hours of content then decide to buy or play the game. Doesn't seem fair. What exactly would seem fair to you? For those of you having such an issue with a possible revenue stream for Blizzard off of these tournaments, do you also bombard the forums of the NFL, NBA, MLB, FIFA, etc. complaining whenever they take a cut of revenue from broadcasted content of their respective sports? I think the point everyone is missing here is that the major tournaments themselves are doing quite well. We have MLG_Lee here personally defending Blizzard's right to a cut of the revenue and while he legally can't comment on it, I'm sure it's because he and the MLG are doing quite well regardless of that cut. And I'm sure it's the same for the GSL, IPL, Dreamhack, etc. I find it hilarious that people are trying to villify Blizzard so badly that they're missing the big picture that the eSports scene is EXPLODING right now. EVERYONE involved with the major events are making money - from the organizers to the progamers to the sponsors and yes even Blizzard. As a fan, it blows my mind that people will find any reason to complain about the current tournament and eSports scene when we as fans have more content than ever before and the scene is on the verge of blowing up into the mainstream thanks to these amazing games of SC2, BarCrafts forming as a result and the burgeoning possibilities of having eSports on broadcast television (P.S. thanks Sundance/MLG for working on getting this done!). If Blizzard were screwing things up as badly as the trolls are making them out to be, NONE of this would even be an issue. This would be a forum with 10 people discussing the merits of Supreme Commander or some other RTS as an esports game and how they're the only 10 people with the vision to see how it could maybe succeed as one with tournaments paying out hundreds of dollars to the top players!
?????
You do realize that the NFL, NBA, FIFA, MLB don't own rights to their respective sports, they are simply LEAGUES. Whoever invented football, basketball, baseball, soccer, etc. isn't getting paid, nor are their families. If Blizzard created their own leagues and tournaments they should have every right to get paid for them. But blizzard should not be able to just demand money from any organization featuring SC2 at an event. The companies and players have already purchased Blizzard's game and that should be the end of where Blizzard can stick their greedy fingers. If Blizzard took an active role in promoting and nurturing the professional scene and actually seemed to give a fuck about consumer feedback then people might have a different view.
As it is, Blizzard has been unforgivably slow/reluctant/unwilling to listen to the community... and you wonder why people feel cheated when Blizzard is getting paid out the ass? Not to mention Blizzard has been the chief reason any of these events have had complications... no LAN really?
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On October 14 2011 05:00 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:
Time to inject a new opinion... I don't give a fuck what MLG Lee says or thinks. I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered for whatever Blizzard wants to spend it on (single-player casual bullshit).
Theorycrafting right now, but I don't want MLG to be "fine". Fine is bullshit when it can be Good. Blizzard is choking out their IP, scarcity is real and it's inefficient to use our limited funds for what Blizzard wants (single-player casual bullshit).
Blizzard isn't screwing up, but they aren't helping. Their patches and balancing is just fixing their original fuck-ups. They don't (or shouldn't) balance for meta-game. So they just need to balance for the original content, which they could've done before they even shipped it out instead of focusing on other things they did (single-player casual bullshit).
Plenty of other non-Blizzard epsorts for you to pay for then. Also, you're idea of consistently more and more tournaments and content being "choking out their IP" seems pretty off to me.
Yeah, because of a fucked-up company I should just abandon a genre within esports.
Blizzard isn't making tournaments, Blizzcon is a joke. They are strangling grass-roots tournaments by forcing a 5k limit, you can't argue that the 5k limit helps anyone but Blizzard.
And Blizzard taking money (i.e. choking) from MLG/ESL/etc. means that money is not given to MLG/ESL/etc. So, we can either give our money for more MLG/ESL/etc. or we can give it to Blizzard for more single-player! Oh wait, they're going to make the next two games no matter how much money we give them, we're giving them money for SC3. Too bad they're going to waste that money again on single-player casual bullshit.
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On October 14 2011 05:03 gatorling wrote:Show nested quote +
I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered...
Easy solution. Stop watching events with a 5k prize pool and E-mail sponsors telling them that you will not buy their products for sponsoring e-sport events where the game creator takes a portion of the ad revenues. I'm surprised how many people are out there who want to legitimize one stream of profit (retail sales of a $60 game) but demonize the other (profiting from the game as a spectator sport). I get the distinct feeling that people want Blizzard to promote and grow e-sports out of altruism and warm-fuzzy feelings and that growing e-sports because it will grow profits is inherently an awful evil thing. If Blizzard gets too greedy. The market will punish them, there are plenty of other games out there that would love to be THE e-sport game. One number I would like to see is how many of those dollars made from events will be re-invested into the game.
There is no THE esport game. Don't even try.
The market is going to do shit within measurable time, oh well.
Blizzard doesn't put in enough effort to earn anything other than the $60.00 I gave them. That's kind of the point. They are on the bottom of the list of people who deserve my money based on how much "work" they have put into esports. They put their work into single-player casual bullshit and sprinkled in their bnet0.2 and "balance" (ask AJ how Blizzard balances their shit), and I paid $60.00 for that.
I'll give them more money when they earn it.
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On October 14 2011 05:03 gatorling wrote:
If Blizzard gets too greedy. The market will punish them, there are plenty of other games out there that would love to be THE e-sport game.
There are plenty of games that WANT to be the e-sport game, but there is only one that I want to watch, Starcraft 2.
And I think Blizzard has every right to get a share of money from tournaments.
Man, the guy above me REALLY hates the single-player campaign. I would still bet that Blizzard made more money from people that only played that or enjoyed both SP and MP over those that only play MP.
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On October 14 2011 05:03 Cataphract wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:On October 14 2011 03:36 Warblade! wrote:On October 14 2011 02:56 conz wrote:
Taking it away from the what's correct and legal, it's a shame because in a sense MLG and these bigger events are growing SC2 through advertising sc2, surely blizzard makes a ton off the people that watch the big crowds and hours of content then decide to buy or play the game. Doesn't seem fair. What exactly would seem fair to you? For those of you having such an issue with a possible revenue stream for Blizzard off of these tournaments, do you also bombard the forums of the NFL, NBA, MLB, FIFA, etc. complaining whenever they take a cut of revenue from broadcasted content of their respective sports? I think the point everyone is missing here is that the major tournaments themselves are doing quite well. We have MLG_Lee here personally defending Blizzard's right to a cut of the revenue and while he legally can't comment on it, I'm sure it's because he and the MLG are doing quite well regardless of that cut. And I'm sure it's the same for the GSL, IPL, Dreamhack, etc. I find it hilarious that people are trying to villify Blizzard so badly that they're missing the big picture that the eSports scene is EXPLODING right now. EVERYONE involved with the major events are making money - from the organizers to the progamers to the sponsors and yes even Blizzard. As a fan, it blows my mind that people will find any reason to complain about the current tournament and eSports scene when we as fans have more content than ever before and the scene is on the verge of blowing up into the mainstream thanks to these amazing games of SC2, BarCrafts forming as a result and the burgeoning possibilities of having eSports on broadcast television (P.S. thanks Sundance/MLG for working on getting this done!). If Blizzard were screwing things up as badly as the trolls are making them out to be, NONE of this would even be an issue. This would be a forum with 10 people discussing the merits of Supreme Commander or some other RTS as an esports game and how they're the only 10 people with the vision to see how it could maybe succeed as one with tournaments paying out hundreds of dollars to the top players! Time to inject a new opinion... I don't give a fuck what MLG Lee says or thinks. I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered for whatever Blizzard wants to spend it on (single-player casual bullshit). Theorycrafting right now, but I don't want MLG to be "fine". Fine is bullshit when it can be Good. Blizzard is choking out their IP, scarcity is real and it's inefficient to use our limited funds for what Blizzard wants (single-player casual bullshit). Blizzard isn't screwing up, but they aren't helping. Their patches and balancing is just fixing their original fuck-ups. They don't (or shouldn't) balance for meta-game. So they just need to balance for the original content, which they could've done before they even shipped it out instead of focusing on other things they did (single-player casual bullshit). I'm gonna go out on a limb and say more people bought Starcraft 2 for the singleplayer experience rather than the competitive multiplayer. I have a bunch of people on my realID friends list that own the game. Probably close to 10. 3 of them have ever laddered. 1 of them has watched the GSL. Blizzard probably made more money from people that bought the game for the singleplayer only, than they do on people that only care about multiplayer. I read about people on forums that talk about how they don't even like to play the game on ladder, they prefer to watch it, but I can guarantee that all of them will play the Heart of the Swarm campaign. I think this based on my experiences. And for the record, I like both.
How did Blizzard make more money from the single-player when everybody bought both the single-player and multiplayer?
Unless you mean if Blizzard only made a multiplayer game? I've heard LoL is just doing horrible with their exclusive multiplayer content.
And if they actually spent their time only with multiplayer, things could be so much better and I'd be happy to give Blizzard money for doing something right.
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On October 14 2011 05:13 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 05:03 Cataphract wrote:On October 14 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:On October 14 2011 03:36 Warblade! wrote:On October 14 2011 02:56 conz wrote:
Taking it away from the what's correct and legal, it's a shame because in a sense MLG and these bigger events are growing SC2 through advertising sc2, surely blizzard makes a ton off the people that watch the big crowds and hours of content then decide to buy or play the game. Doesn't seem fair. What exactly would seem fair to you? For those of you having such an issue with a possible revenue stream for Blizzard off of these tournaments, do you also bombard the forums of the NFL, NBA, MLB, FIFA, etc. complaining whenever they take a cut of revenue from broadcasted content of their respective sports? I think the point everyone is missing here is that the major tournaments themselves are doing quite well. We have MLG_Lee here personally defending Blizzard's right to a cut of the revenue and while he legally can't comment on it, I'm sure it's because he and the MLG are doing quite well regardless of that cut. And I'm sure it's the same for the GSL, IPL, Dreamhack, etc. I find it hilarious that people are trying to villify Blizzard so badly that they're missing the big picture that the eSports scene is EXPLODING right now. EVERYONE involved with the major events are making money - from the organizers to the progamers to the sponsors and yes even Blizzard. As a fan, it blows my mind that people will find any reason to complain about the current tournament and eSports scene when we as fans have more content than ever before and the scene is on the verge of blowing up into the mainstream thanks to these amazing games of SC2, BarCrafts forming as a result and the burgeoning possibilities of having eSports on broadcast television (P.S. thanks Sundance/MLG for working on getting this done!). If Blizzard were screwing things up as badly as the trolls are making them out to be, NONE of this would even be an issue. This would be a forum with 10 people discussing the merits of Supreme Commander or some other RTS as an esports game and how they're the only 10 people with the vision to see how it could maybe succeed as one with tournaments paying out hundreds of dollars to the top players! Time to inject a new opinion... I don't give a fuck what MLG Lee says or thinks. I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered for whatever Blizzard wants to spend it on (single-player casual bullshit). Theorycrafting right now, but I don't want MLG to be "fine". Fine is bullshit when it can be Good. Blizzard is choking out their IP, scarcity is real and it's inefficient to use our limited funds for what Blizzard wants (single-player casual bullshit). Blizzard isn't screwing up, but they aren't helping. Their patches and balancing is just fixing their original fuck-ups. They don't (or shouldn't) balance for meta-game. So they just need to balance for the original content, which they could've done before they even shipped it out instead of focusing on other things they did (single-player casual bullshit). I'm gonna go out on a limb and say more people bought Starcraft 2 for the singleplayer experience rather than the competitive multiplayer. I have a bunch of people on my realID friends list that own the game. Probably close to 10. 3 of them have ever laddered. 1 of them has watched the GSL. Blizzard probably made more money from people that bought the game for the singleplayer only, than they do on people that only care about multiplayer. I read about people on forums that talk about how they don't even like to play the game on ladder, they prefer to watch it, but I can guarantee that all of them will play the Heart of the Swarm campaign. I think this based on my experiences. And for the record, I like both. How did Blizzard make more money from the single-player when everybody bought both the single-player and multiplayer? Unless you mean if Blizzard only made a multiplayer game? I've heard LoL is just doing horrible with their exclusive multiplayer content. And if they actually spent their time only with multiplayer, things could be so much better and I'd be happy to give Blizzard money for doing something right.
No, I am saying that if you polled everyone that bought Stacraft 2, more people would have bought it purely for the singleplayer campaign than to play just multiplayer.
You can't compare a F2P game(LoL) to SC2(Full box $60 game).
LoL is popular because its free.
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On October 14 2011 05:10 Cataphract wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 05:03 gatorling wrote:
If Blizzard gets too greedy. The market will punish them, there are plenty of other games out there that would love to be THE e-sport game.
There are plenty of games that WANT to be the e-sport game, but there is only one that I want to watch, Starcraft 2. And I think Blizzard has every right to get a share of money from tournaments. Man, the guy above me REALLY hates the single-player campaign. I would still bet that Blizzard made more money from people that only played that or enjoyed both SP and MP over those that only play MP.
Being a WoW PvP player, you are always on the backburner to PvE. I see the same thing happening with SC2, except SC2 has already started with so much potential from the laurels of BW whereas WoW had a community to force it to have some semblance of competition.
SC2 multiplayer is being throttled by the single-player, and Blizzard wants money from the tournaments. I'm not talking about balancing, I'm talking about time, energy, and money. The majority of the content of the original SC2 box is single-player. But because of great companies like MLG, we can have content outside of that original box. Blizzard only gave us box content, working years and years on it. But they didn't work for years on multiplayer, or balancing, or anything esports related. I don't understand why people think Blizzard is responsible for anything but single-player when talking about content.
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On October 14 2011 05:05 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 05:00 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 14 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:
Time to inject a new opinion... I don't give a fuck what MLG Lee says or thinks. I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered for whatever Blizzard wants to spend it on (single-player casual bullshit).
Theorycrafting right now, but I don't want MLG to be "fine". Fine is bullshit when it can be Good. Blizzard is choking out their IP, scarcity is real and it's inefficient to use our limited funds for what Blizzard wants (single-player casual bullshit).
Blizzard isn't screwing up, but they aren't helping. Their patches and balancing is just fixing their original fuck-ups. They don't (or shouldn't) balance for meta-game. So they just need to balance for the original content, which they could've done before they even shipped it out instead of focusing on other things they did (single-player casual bullshit).
Plenty of other non-Blizzard epsorts for you to pay for then. Also, you're idea of consistently more and more tournaments and content being "choking out their IP" seems pretty off to me. Yeah, because of a fucked-up company I should just abandon a genre within esports. Blizzard isn't making tournaments, Blizzcon is a joke. They are strangling grass-roots tournaments by forcing a 5k limit, you can't argue that the 5k limit helps anyone but Blizzard. And Blizzard taking money (i.e. choking) from MLG/ESL/etc. means that money is not given to MLG/ESL/etc. So, we can either give our money for more MLG/ESL/etc. or we can give it to Blizzard for more single-player! Oh wait, they're going to make the next two games no matter how much money we give them, we're giving them money for SC3. Too bad they're going to waste that money again on single-player casual bullshit.
I'm not sure what your point is, there other other RTS games besides Blizzard games, they might not be esports because they suck. But you can either not pay tournaments at all or you can pay them and they are going to pay Blizzard. They don't have a problem with it like you do. Starcraft 2 has allowed them to make money, period. The expense of paying Blizzard is irrelevant when Blizzard has provided an entirely new area for profit that works.
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On October 14 2011 05:03 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 03:36 Warblade! wrote:On October 14 2011 02:56 conz wrote:
Taking it away from the what's correct and legal, it's a shame because in a sense MLG and these bigger events are growing SC2 through advertising sc2, surely blizzard makes a ton off the people that watch the big crowds and hours of content then decide to buy or play the game. Doesn't seem fair. What exactly would seem fair to you? For those of you having such an issue with a possible revenue stream for Blizzard off of these tournaments, do you also bombard the forums of the NFL, NBA, MLB, FIFA, etc. complaining whenever they take a cut of revenue from broadcasted content of their respective sports? I think the point everyone is missing here is that the major tournaments themselves are doing quite well. We have MLG_Lee here personally defending Blizzard's right to a cut of the revenue and while he legally can't comment on it, I'm sure it's because he and the MLG are doing quite well regardless of that cut. And I'm sure it's the same for the GSL, IPL, Dreamhack, etc. I find it hilarious that people are trying to villify Blizzard so badly that they're missing the big picture that the eSports scene is EXPLODING right now. EVERYONE involved with the major events are making money - from the organizers to the progamers to the sponsors and yes even Blizzard. As a fan, it blows my mind that people will find any reason to complain about the current tournament and eSports scene when we as fans have more content than ever before and the scene is on the verge of blowing up into the mainstream thanks to these amazing games of SC2, BarCrafts forming as a result and the burgeoning possibilities of having eSports on broadcast television (P.S. thanks Sundance/MLG for working on getting this done!). If Blizzard were screwing things up as badly as the trolls are making them out to be, NONE of this would even be an issue. This would be a forum with 10 people discussing the merits of Supreme Commander or some other RTS as an esports game and how they're the only 10 people with the vision to see how it could maybe succeed as one with tournaments paying out hundreds of dollars to the top players! ????? You do realize that the NFL, NBA, FIFA, MLB don't own rights to their respective sports, they are simply LEAGUES. Whoever invented football, basketball, baseball, soccer, etc. isn't getting paid, nor are their families. If Blizzard created their own leagues and tournaments they should have every right to get paid for them. But blizzard should not be able to just demand money from any organization featuring SC2 at an event. The companies and players have already purchased Blizzard's game and that should be the end of where Blizzard can stick their greedy fingers. If Blizzard took an active role in promoting and nurturing the professional scene and actually seemed to give a fuck about consumer feedback then people might have a different view. As it is, Blizzard has been unforgivably slow/reluctant/unwilling to listen to the community... and you wonder why people feel cheated when Blizzard is getting paid out the ass? Not to mention Blizzard has been the chief reason any of these events have had complications... no LAN really?
This is retarded. As soon as Blizzard isn't allowed to do this, then they lose their incentive to make the game and maintain SC2 infrastructure. Creating a game like sc2, maintaining in and advertising costs a shit ton and is very risky.
As long as they have the legal right to and the moral obligation to support their shareholders, and they are not doing anything socially irresponsble, they ought to be able to charge whatever the economics of their business justify. If MLG was getting robbed, period, then they ought to be able to negotiate with Blizzard. For instance, if Blizzard's alternative was to accept no MLG at the current revenue ad sharing percentage, and it would be unprofitable for them to do so, they would likely sign an agreement granting an exception.
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I wonder how many people in this thread are going to be glued to the MLG streams this weekend.
I stocked up on NOS and I plan to not move unless I catch on fire. I actually bought twice as much NOS as I normally do because they sponsor the MLG. One for me, one for esports, one for me, one for esports.
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On October 14 2011 05:17 Cataphract wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 05:13 Hnnngg wrote:On October 14 2011 05:03 Cataphract wrote:On October 14 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:On October 14 2011 03:36 Warblade! wrote:On October 14 2011 02:56 conz wrote:
Taking it away from the what's correct and legal, it's a shame because in a sense MLG and these bigger events are growing SC2 through advertising sc2, surely blizzard makes a ton off the people that watch the big crowds and hours of content then decide to buy or play the game. Doesn't seem fair. What exactly would seem fair to you? For those of you having such an issue with a possible revenue stream for Blizzard off of these tournaments, do you also bombard the forums of the NFL, NBA, MLB, FIFA, etc. complaining whenever they take a cut of revenue from broadcasted content of their respective sports? I think the point everyone is missing here is that the major tournaments themselves are doing quite well. We have MLG_Lee here personally defending Blizzard's right to a cut of the revenue and while he legally can't comment on it, I'm sure it's because he and the MLG are doing quite well regardless of that cut. And I'm sure it's the same for the GSL, IPL, Dreamhack, etc. I find it hilarious that people are trying to villify Blizzard so badly that they're missing the big picture that the eSports scene is EXPLODING right now. EVERYONE involved with the major events are making money - from the organizers to the progamers to the sponsors and yes even Blizzard. As a fan, it blows my mind that people will find any reason to complain about the current tournament and eSports scene when we as fans have more content than ever before and the scene is on the verge of blowing up into the mainstream thanks to these amazing games of SC2, BarCrafts forming as a result and the burgeoning possibilities of having eSports on broadcast television (P.S. thanks Sundance/MLG for working on getting this done!). If Blizzard were screwing things up as badly as the trolls are making them out to be, NONE of this would even be an issue. This would be a forum with 10 people discussing the merits of Supreme Commander or some other RTS as an esports game and how they're the only 10 people with the vision to see how it could maybe succeed as one with tournaments paying out hundreds of dollars to the top players! Time to inject a new opinion... I don't give a fuck what MLG Lee says or thinks. I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered for whatever Blizzard wants to spend it on (single-player casual bullshit). Theorycrafting right now, but I don't want MLG to be "fine". Fine is bullshit when it can be Good. Blizzard is choking out their IP, scarcity is real and it's inefficient to use our limited funds for what Blizzard wants (single-player casual bullshit). Blizzard isn't screwing up, but they aren't helping. Their patches and balancing is just fixing their original fuck-ups. They don't (or shouldn't) balance for meta-game. So they just need to balance for the original content, which they could've done before they even shipped it out instead of focusing on other things they did (single-player casual bullshit). I'm gonna go out on a limb and say more people bought Starcraft 2 for the singleplayer experience rather than the competitive multiplayer. I have a bunch of people on my realID friends list that own the game. Probably close to 10. 3 of them have ever laddered. 1 of them has watched the GSL. Blizzard probably made more money from people that bought the game for the singleplayer only, than they do on people that only care about multiplayer. I read about people on forums that talk about how they don't even like to play the game on ladder, they prefer to watch it, but I can guarantee that all of them will play the Heart of the Swarm campaign. I think this based on my experiences. And for the record, I like both. How did Blizzard make more money from the single-player when everybody bought both the single-player and multiplayer? Unless you mean if Blizzard only made a multiplayer game? I've heard LoL is just doing horrible with their exclusive multiplayer content. And if they actually spent their time only with multiplayer, things could be so much better and I'd be happy to give Blizzard money for doing something right. No, I am saying that if you polled everyone that bought Stacraft 2, more people would have bought it purely for the singleplayer campaign than to play just multiplayer. You can't compare a F2P game(LoL) to SC2(Full box $60 game). LoL is popular because its free.
So, the singleplayer people spent $60.00 and the multiplayer people spent $60.00 + ad revenue from tournaments.
It sounds like in the long term that the multiplayer people would be more valuable. And we don't know how many people would've bought it anyway without singleplayer content and just quit. Even then, if only multiplayer people bought the game, it would be better for esports. We would've had SC2 in 2009 (those cinematics take months to make, yay single-player) and with the growth of esports within the last year, I'm not convinced Blizzard wouldn't be better of without single-player content.
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Anyone remember when game companies were happy if lots of people bought their game? Apparently that's not good enough anymore.
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Government demands half of all ad revenues above 5,000 dollars for an event: "This will stymie growth!"
Private company demands half of all ad revenues above 5,000 dollars for an event: "They're trying to make money."
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On October 14 2011 05:17 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 05:05 Hnnngg wrote:On October 14 2011 05:00 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 14 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:
Time to inject a new opinion... I don't give a fuck what MLG Lee says or thinks. I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered for whatever Blizzard wants to spend it on (single-player casual bullshit).
Theorycrafting right now, but I don't want MLG to be "fine". Fine is bullshit when it can be Good. Blizzard is choking out their IP, scarcity is real and it's inefficient to use our limited funds for what Blizzard wants (single-player casual bullshit).
Blizzard isn't screwing up, but they aren't helping. Their patches and balancing is just fixing their original fuck-ups. They don't (or shouldn't) balance for meta-game. So they just need to balance for the original content, which they could've done before they even shipped it out instead of focusing on other things they did (single-player casual bullshit).
Plenty of other non-Blizzard epsorts for you to pay for then. Also, you're idea of consistently more and more tournaments and content being "choking out their IP" seems pretty off to me. Yeah, because of a fucked-up company I should just abandon a genre within esports. Blizzard isn't making tournaments, Blizzcon is a joke. They are strangling grass-roots tournaments by forcing a 5k limit, you can't argue that the 5k limit helps anyone but Blizzard. And Blizzard taking money (i.e. choking) from MLG/ESL/etc. means that money is not given to MLG/ESL/etc. So, we can either give our money for more MLG/ESL/etc. or we can give it to Blizzard for more single-player! Oh wait, they're going to make the next two games no matter how much money we give them, we're giving them money for SC3. Too bad they're going to waste that money again on single-player casual bullshit. I'm not sure what your point is, there other other RTS games besides Blizzard games, they might not be esports because they suck. But you can either not pay tournaments at all or you can pay them and they are going to pay Blizzard. They don't have a problem with it like you do. Starcraft 2 has allowed them to make money, period. The expense of paying Blizzard is irrelevant when Blizzard has provided an entirely new area for profit that works.
Basically I'm under the threat of an ultimatum, good esports infrastructure from Blizzard! We don't know who has a problem with what, because there is an NDA. I wonder why... MLG/ESL/etc would also make money without SC2, SC2 isn't keeping esports alive, and esports would be fine without it.
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On October 14 2011 05:24 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 05:17 Cataphract wrote:On October 14 2011 05:13 Hnnngg wrote:On October 14 2011 05:03 Cataphract wrote:On October 14 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:On October 14 2011 03:36 Warblade! wrote:On October 14 2011 02:56 conz wrote:
Taking it away from the what's correct and legal, it's a shame because in a sense MLG and these bigger events are growing SC2 through advertising sc2, surely blizzard makes a ton off the people that watch the big crowds and hours of content then decide to buy or play the game. Doesn't seem fair. What exactly would seem fair to you? For those of you having such an issue with a possible revenue stream for Blizzard off of these tournaments, do you also bombard the forums of the NFL, NBA, MLB, FIFA, etc. complaining whenever they take a cut of revenue from broadcasted content of their respective sports? I think the point everyone is missing here is that the major tournaments themselves are doing quite well. We have MLG_Lee here personally defending Blizzard's right to a cut of the revenue and while he legally can't comment on it, I'm sure it's because he and the MLG are doing quite well regardless of that cut. And I'm sure it's the same for the GSL, IPL, Dreamhack, etc. I find it hilarious that people are trying to villify Blizzard so badly that they're missing the big picture that the eSports scene is EXPLODING right now. EVERYONE involved with the major events are making money - from the organizers to the progamers to the sponsors and yes even Blizzard. As a fan, it blows my mind that people will find any reason to complain about the current tournament and eSports scene when we as fans have more content than ever before and the scene is on the verge of blowing up into the mainstream thanks to these amazing games of SC2, BarCrafts forming as a result and the burgeoning possibilities of having eSports on broadcast television (P.S. thanks Sundance/MLG for working on getting this done!). If Blizzard were screwing things up as badly as the trolls are making them out to be, NONE of this would even be an issue. This would be a forum with 10 people discussing the merits of Supreme Commander or some other RTS as an esports game and how they're the only 10 people with the vision to see how it could maybe succeed as one with tournaments paying out hundreds of dollars to the top players! Time to inject a new opinion... I don't give a fuck what MLG Lee says or thinks. I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered for whatever Blizzard wants to spend it on (single-player casual bullshit). Theorycrafting right now, but I don't want MLG to be "fine". Fine is bullshit when it can be Good. Blizzard is choking out their IP, scarcity is real and it's inefficient to use our limited funds for what Blizzard wants (single-player casual bullshit). Blizzard isn't screwing up, but they aren't helping. Their patches and balancing is just fixing their original fuck-ups. They don't (or shouldn't) balance for meta-game. So they just need to balance for the original content, which they could've done before they even shipped it out instead of focusing on other things they did (single-player casual bullshit). I'm gonna go out on a limb and say more people bought Starcraft 2 for the singleplayer experience rather than the competitive multiplayer. I have a bunch of people on my realID friends list that own the game. Probably close to 10. 3 of them have ever laddered. 1 of them has watched the GSL. Blizzard probably made more money from people that bought the game for the singleplayer only, than they do on people that only care about multiplayer. I read about people on forums that talk about how they don't even like to play the game on ladder, they prefer to watch it, but I can guarantee that all of them will play the Heart of the Swarm campaign. I think this based on my experiences. And for the record, I like both. How did Blizzard make more money from the single-player when everybody bought both the single-player and multiplayer? Unless you mean if Blizzard only made a multiplayer game? I've heard LoL is just doing horrible with their exclusive multiplayer content. And if they actually spent their time only with multiplayer, things could be so much better and I'd be happy to give Blizzard money for doing something right. No, I am saying that if you polled everyone that bought Stacraft 2, more people would have bought it purely for the singleplayer campaign than to play just multiplayer. You can't compare a F2P game(LoL) to SC2(Full box $60 game). LoL is popular because its free. So, the singleplayer people spent $60.00 and the multiplayer people spent $60.00 + ad revenue from tournaments. It sounds like in the long term that the multiplayer people would be more valuable. And we don't know how many people would've bought it anyway without singleplayer content and just quit. Even then, if only multiplayer people bought the game, it would be better for esports. We would've had SC2 in 2009 (those cinematics take months to make, yay single-player) and with the growth of esports within the last year, I'm not convinced Blizzard wouldn't be better of without single-player content.
You don't seem to realize that the community does not get to set the terms on how Blizzard creates a product. Business does not operate out of altruism for esports, not Blizzard, not MLG, not GLS, not even pro players, not anyone.
Blizzard created a product that tournament organizers want, are willing to pay for, and can make money off of. End of story.
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On October 14 2011 05:26 MichaelJLowell wrote:
Government demands half of all ad revenues above 5,000 dollars for an event: "This will stymie growth!"
Private company demands half of all ad revenues above 5,000 dollars for an event: "They're trying to make money."
Wait...wait...are you really mikey lowell? Like, the awesome one?
*sigh* I have read your articles entirely too much.
BTW, private company provides service for said revenue. A voluntary transaction that makes both parties better off otherwise they wouldn't do it.
The government just points a gun at your head and says gimmie.
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On October 14 2011 05:26 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2011 05:17 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 14 2011 05:05 Hnnngg wrote:On October 14 2011 05:00 Treemonkeys wrote:On October 14 2011 03:55 Hnnngg wrote:
Time to inject a new opinion... I don't give a fuck what MLG Lee says or thinks. I don't want to indirectly pay Blizzard so they can make up their single-player casual bullshit. I want to pay for esports, and if any percentage of that goes to Blizzard, then the money is getting squandered for whatever Blizzard wants to spend it on (single-player casual bullshit).
Theorycrafting right now, but I don't want MLG to be "fine". Fine is bullshit when it can be Good. Blizzard is choking out their IP, scarcity is real and it's inefficient to use our limited funds for what Blizzard wants (single-player casual bullshit).
Blizzard isn't screwing up, but they aren't helping. Their patches and balancing is just fixing their original fuck-ups. They don't (or shouldn't) balance for meta-game. So they just need to balance for the original content, which they could've done before they even shipped it out instead of focusing on other things they did (single-player casual bullshit).
Plenty of other non-Blizzard epsorts for you to pay for then. Also, you're idea of consistently more and more tournaments and content being "choking out their IP" seems pretty off to me. Yeah, because of a fucked-up company I should just abandon a genre within esports. Blizzard isn't making tournaments, Blizzcon is a joke. They are strangling grass-roots tournaments by forcing a 5k limit, you can't argue that the 5k limit helps anyone but Blizzard. And Blizzard taking money (i.e. choking) from MLG/ESL/etc. means that money is not given to MLG/ESL/etc. So, we can either give our money for more MLG/ESL/etc. or we can give it to Blizzard for more single-player! Oh wait, they're going to make the next two games no matter how much money we give them, we're giving them money for SC3. Too bad they're going to waste that money again on single-player casual bullshit. I'm not sure what your point is, there other other RTS games besides Blizzard games, they might not be esports because they suck. But you can either not pay tournaments at all or you can pay them and they are going to pay Blizzard. They don't have a problem with it like you do. Starcraft 2 has allowed them to make money, period. The expense of paying Blizzard is irrelevant when Blizzard has provided an entirely new area for profit that works. Basically I'm under the threat of an ultimatum, good esports infrastructure from Blizzard! We don't know who has a problem with what, because there is an NDA. I wonder why... MLG/ESL/etc would also make money without SC2, SC2 isn't keeping esports alive, and esports would be fine without it.
Which is why I cannot fathom why you don't realize that Blizzard deal *works* for MLG and pretty much everyone else who matters. If it wasn't profitable, they wouldn't use it, they aren't forced into paying for SC2, they choose to. That simple.
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On October 14 2011 05:24 Gann1 wrote:
Anyone remember when game companies were happy if lots of people bought their game? Apparently that's not good enough anymore.
You mean back when esports didn't exist?
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EPT
