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On September 27 2011 00:46 Elean wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 00:20 Vul wrote:On September 26 2011 23:26 icarly wrote:On September 26 2011 23:06 Athrun wrote:
I'd have to agree with Dawg_snow about Blasphemi trolling on every thread where stephano's name comes up. That having been said, I voted Thorzain, but I was torn between him, Huk, Mana, and Stephano. I'm a huge Idra fan, but he doesn't deserve to be on this list. Stephano qualified for IPL-- beating several good players including MMA Just dominated the FXO invitational and won the Scan invitational, beating Socke Kas and Tod a combined 7-1. Good perfomances in cups every week, and you're labeling him as nothing but a good ladder run-- which not to mention 62-1 is pretty freakin good on the 2nd hardest server in the world. Online qualifiers are still online qualifiers and we've learned that you can't take them that seriously. How so ? Just look at the results of the other online qualifiers for major tournaments: TSL3: all players in the Ro4 have won a TLopen NASL season1: Puma won the online qualifier, ... just before winning whole tourney.
Yes, a good player can win an online tournament, but even in the TSL3 you had GSL champions losing to foreigners who would end up not even being top foreigners in the months to come. But this is an old argument. I'm not gonna rehash it here, most people know what they tend to believe about this and why.
It's nothing against Stephano, but I would be a hell of a lot more impressed to see him beat MMA in a bo3 at the IPL lan event. He'll have his chance and he can show us then how competitive he'll be against Koreans.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IGN_ProLeague_Season_3/Main_Tournament
That's the bracket, he gets to play aLive, BoxeR and HuK, so we'll see.
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On September 27 2011 04:08 Blasphemi wrote:
Idra really suffers from the fact he mostly plays good players. I don't think any foreigner except Huk has to play as many Koreans as Idra does. Idra also doesn't play many if any small tournaments and thus isn't able to boost his reputation by crushing much lesser players.
lol, Blesphemi yea if he only lost to the Koreans that would be very good but losing to Namchir, Trimaster, Merz and getting slaughtered 2 times by Nerchio really doesnt make you argument very valid.
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Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
Let's see how he does when it comes down to Lan Time. I don't want to take anything away from the guy but he got spanked at HSC.
Oh and Mana having best PvT in the world.
Does anyone watch the GSL????
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^^ Mana beat Puma and Nada quite convincingly. He has godly PvT. But best in the world is always debatable.. sooo many good players. As a community we are spoilt!! So many good events and players to support. Many of which are on a really high level and give awesome entertainment to watch. =]
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On September 27 2011 05:24 Lunas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 04:08 Blasphemi wrote:
Idra really suffers from the fact he mostly plays good players. I don't think any foreigner except Huk has to play as many Koreans as Idra does. Idra also doesn't play many if any small tournaments and thus isn't able to boost his reputation by crushing much lesser players. lol, Blesphemi yea if he only lost to the Koreans that would be very good but losing to Namchir, Trimaster, Merz and getting slaughtered 2 times by Nerchio really doesnt make you argument very valid.
You're right Idra has a some point in the year Sc2 has been out lost to players he shouldn't have. What a valid point you make...
Anyway, on to serious posts.
If Idra played in Craft Cup's and Go4Sc2 all the time instead of predominantly just big LAN's he'd win a lot more games. If guys like Stephano, Kas and Happy had only played in LAN's and big online tournaments most people on here would think they were terrible.
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On September 27 2011 08:04 BjC wrote:
^^ Mana beat Puma and Nada quite convincingly. He has godly PvT. But best in the world is always debatable.. sooo many good players. As a community we are spoilt!! So many good events and players to support. Many of which are on a really high level and give awesome entertainment to watch. =]
But Mana also lost to MC 3-0. He also lost to Bomber at Dreamhack and various other non Koreans. What people don't understand is that beating a Korean once doesn't make you Code S level if you also lost to them three times.
For example Thorzain beat Hero sure but he also lost to MC twice, lost to July, lost to DRG, lost to Yugioh and lost various GSTL games.
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On September 27 2011 07:57 inamorato wrote:
Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
I don't see people exagerrating in that way.
And we only have so much discussion about him because people like you come and bash him when the last pages have been more about Thorzain (and other people bashing Stephano).
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On September 27 2011 07:57 inamorato wrote:
Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
Let's see how he does when it comes down to Lan Time. I don't want to take anything away from the guy but he got spanked at HSC.
Oh and Mana having best PvT in the world.
Does anyone watch the GSL????
Stephano is for sure one of the greatest up and coming players and capable of being a foreign bonjwa, but as many of us said, it is yet to be proven. The same goes for Nerchio and MaNa, although MaNa showed us in some LANs that he may be one of the best foreigners.
Those three players have one thing in common: they are very young (17-18 yo) and alerady showing extremely high level of play. We can only wait and see if one of them really decides to be a proffesional (Stephano seems to be leaning towards it more than others). Time will tell.
I would only imagine that if they would train in Korea for 1 year like a true korean practices, they would have a very solid shot at winning GSL for sure.
On MaNa having the best PvT in the world: well i can assume people were saying that he's the best PvT'er in foreigner scene, since i don't recall him playing in GSL 
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Best Foreigner? where is Nerchio?
it's rly funny, he won in this week like 5 EU online tournaments?
in gosugamers cup he was second
today he won Millenium tournament
he show a lot amazing games
Idra? is he won something in this year?
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On September 27 2011 08:10 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 08:04 BjC wrote:
^^ Mana beat Puma and Nada quite convincingly. He has godly PvT. But best in the world is always debatable.. sooo many good players. As a community we are spoilt!! So many good events and players to support. Many of which are on a really high level and give awesome entertainment to watch. =] But Mana also lost to MC 3-0. He also lost to Bomber at Dreamhack and various other non Koreans. What people don't understand is that beating a Korean once doesn't make you Code S level if you also lost to them three times. For example Thorzain beat Hero sure but he also lost to MC twice, lost to July, lost to DRG, lost to Yugioh and lost various GSTL games.
So what makes you a code S caliber? DRG not being able to get through the Code A qualifiers, then he finally does and loses ro16, goes to MLG and gets a Code S seed? So that makes him Code S caliber? Alicia and MC were both knocked into Code B.
I don't even understand your argument.
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On September 27 2011 07:57 inamorato wrote:
Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
Let's see how he does when it comes down to Lan Time. I don't want to take anything away from the guy but he got spanked at HSC.
Oh and Mana having best PvT in the world.
Does anyone watch the GSL????
Just out of curiosity who would you say has the best PvT in the world? GSL doesn't really have a strong showing of protoss talent as of late and I can't seem to remember anyone having a particular stellar PvT. I would think that with the amount of terran in code s anyone who is very strong vT would make a name for themself somewhat handily
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I honestly cant see how people can rate Thorzain and Huk as better players than Sen. :S
Sure he hasnt been into alot of international tournaments compared to the others but he is probably the one who can beat most of the top koreans out of all those people on the list that you can vote for.
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On September 27 2011 08:16 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 08:10 Blasphemi wrote:On September 27 2011 08:04 BjC wrote:
^^ Mana beat Puma and Nada quite convincingly. He has godly PvT. But best in the world is always debatable.. sooo many good players. As a community we are spoilt!! So many good events and players to support. Many of which are on a really high level and give awesome entertainment to watch. =] But Mana also lost to MC 3-0. He also lost to Bomber at Dreamhack and various other non Koreans. What people don't understand is that beating a Korean once doesn't make you Code S level if you also lost to them three times. For example Thorzain beat Hero sure but he also lost to MC twice, lost to July, lost to DRG, lost to Yugioh and lost various GSTL games. So what makes you a code S caliber? DRG not being able to get through the Code A qualifiers, then he finally does and loses ro16, goes to MLG and gets a Code S seed? So that makes him Code S caliber? Alicia and MC were both knocked into Code B. I don't even understand your argument.
A Code S level player is a guy who has a 90%+ win ratio versus non Koreans and who consistantly achieves a 50%+ win ratio versus good Koreans on LAN.
Obviously Code S has a few people in like Ensnare who shouldn't be there but to be solid mid Code S level like TOP, Ryung, Ganzi, July that's what you need to do.
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On September 27 2011 08:20 Badboyrune wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 07:57 inamorato wrote:
Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
Let's see how he does when it comes down to Lan Time. I don't want to take anything away from the guy but he got spanked at HSC.
Oh and Mana having best PvT in the world.
Does anyone watch the GSL???? Just out of curiosity who would you say has the best PvT in the world? GSL doesn't really have a strong showing of protoss talent as of late and I can't seem to remember anyone having a particular stellar PvT. I would think that with the amount of terran in code s anyone who is very strong vT would make a name for themself somewhat handily
Sage, Puzzle and Hongun all have better than 50% win ratios versus the best Terran's in the world. Obviously there's no stand out PvT player because Protoss are getting destroyed right now but they're probably the better ones.
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On September 27 2011 08:21 Gackt_ wrote:
I honestly cant see how people can rate Thorzain and Huk as better players than Sen. :S
Sure he hasnt been into alot of international tournaments compared to the others but he is probably the one who can beat most of the top koreans out of all those people on the list that you can vote for.
Not to take anything away from Sen, I feel he is an incredible player, but he just hasn't had too many results. There are only two large results that he has put up, and those being, 3rd at NASL which was quite some time ago and then his first place finish at the TW B.net invitational, and the only "true" way to really judge the caliber and skill of a player is through lans.
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MaNa/SaSe should be so, so much higher.
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On September 27 2011 08:10 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 08:04 BjC wrote:
^^ Mana beat Puma and Nada quite convincingly. He has godly PvT. But best in the world is always debatable.. sooo many good players. As a community we are spoilt!! So many good events and players to support. Many of which are on a really high level and give awesome entertainment to watch. =] But Mana also lost to MC 3-0. He also lost to Bomber at Dreamhack and various other non Koreans. What people don't understand is that beating a Korean once doesn't make you Code S level if you also lost to them three times. For example Thorzain beat Hero sure but he also lost to MC twice, lost to July, lost to DRG, lost to Yugioh and lost various GSTL games.
lol for a guy whose argument for idra a post above was desperate at best, you sure are in a hurry to shit on Mana and Thorzain. The guy was referring only to Mana's PvT which actually is impressive for a foreigner and protoss these days. He played a very good series against bomber; he's dealt him one of his 5 losses to Protoss in a televised match.
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On September 27 2011 08:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 08:10 Blasphemi wrote:On September 27 2011 08:04 BjC wrote:
^^ Mana beat Puma and Nada quite convincingly. He has godly PvT. But best in the world is always debatable.. sooo many good players. As a community we are spoilt!! So many good events and players to support. Many of which are on a really high level and give awesome entertainment to watch. =] But Mana also lost to MC 3-0. He also lost to Bomber at Dreamhack and various other non Koreans. What people don't understand is that beating a Korean once doesn't make you Code S level if you also lost to them three times. For example Thorzain beat Hero sure but he also lost to MC twice, lost to July, lost to DRG, lost to Yugioh and lost various GSTL games. lol for a guy whose argument for idra a post above was desperate at best, you sure are in a hurry to shit on Mana and Thorzain. The guy was referring only to Mana's PvT which actually is impressive for a foreigner and protoss these days. He played a very good series against bomber; he's dealt him one of his 5 losses to Protoss in a televised match.
Mana has really good PvT for a foreigner. You won't find me arguing with that.
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On September 27 2011 04:08 Blasphemi wrote:
Idra really suffers from the fact he mostly plays good players. I don't think any foreigner except Huk has to play as many Koreans as Idra does. Idra also doesn't play many if any small tournaments and thus isn't able to boost his reputation by crushing much lesser players.
No, he suffers from the fact that he has not beaten a good player (korean or top foreigner) for a long time.
He did play small tournaments, like the last TL opens.
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Idra is just the guy that people love to hate, saying he is the least deserving of being on that list is plain ridiculous...
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EPT
