|
On September 27 2011 08:20 Badboyrune wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 07:57 inamorato wrote:
Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
Let's see how he does when it comes down to Lan Time. I don't want to take anything away from the guy but he got spanked at HSC.
Oh and Mana having best PvT in the world.
Does anyone watch the GSL???? Just out of curiosity who would you say has the best PvT in the world? GSL doesn't really have a strong showing of protoss talent as of late and I can't seem to remember anyone having a particular stellar PvT. I would think that with the amount of terran in code s anyone who is very strong vT would make a name for themself somewhat handily
The point that I am trying to convey is that this in comparison is so volatile in comparison to BW. To suggest that 1 player has the best PvT in the world is nonsensical. I don't recall Mana beating anyone legitimate top tier PvT on Lan. I remember him getting stomped by Bomber at DH, and the thing is, since BW I thought Mana was a good player. Following into Beta he was a a good player, and up until now he is a good player.
If I would have to say who the best PvT in the world, I like Alicia. I know he lost to select, and tod, but I still feel like his PvT is more of a intelligent fines play. I feel like I shouldn't have to have stated this but most people won't comprehend the above paragraph. BTW there are a lot of Korean protoss who just haven't been able to display their skill yet. I mean look at Hero, Sage, Oz. These guys have all beaten, and as of recently top terrans.
|
On September 27 2011 08:11 5ukkub wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 07:57 inamorato wrote:
Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
Let's see how he does when it comes down to Lan Time. I don't want to take anything away from the guy but he got spanked at HSC.
Oh and Mana having best PvT in the world.
Does anyone watch the GSL???? Stephano is for sure one of the greatest up and coming players and capable of being a foreign bonjwa, but as many of us said, it is yet to be proven. The same goes for Nerchio and MaNa, although MaNa showed us in some LANs that he may be one of the best foreigners. Those three players have one thing in common: they are very young (17-18 yo) and alerady showing extremely high level of play. We can only wait and see if one of them really decides to be a proffesional (Stephano seems to be leaning towards it more than others). Time will tell. I would only imagine that if they would train in Korea for 1 year like a true korean practices, they would have a very solid shot at winning GSL for sure. On MaNa having the best PvT in the world: well i can assume people were saying that he's the best PvT'er in foreigner scene, since i don't recall him playing in GSL 
Foreign Bonjwa? What are you talking about? Nerchio? Stephano? Mana? I don't even want you to ever use the word Bonjwa again because you clearly don't understand the meaning. Regardless of you stating future or not.
MaNa showed some tournaments? What offline tournaments? HSC cup 2 where it was like 4 people and he got silver losing to Naniwa.
WHAT HAS STEPHANO done? It seems like so much of this community has this inpenetrable foreign ego complex that they're unable to accept reality. WHO CARES. As of right now, all of the players you mentioned have done absolutely next to nothing in offline tournaments. NOTHING.
You come to this forum and learn words like bonjwa, metagame, etc and you just toss them around like you're familiar, which your clearly not.
edit: there's so many post's that I could focus in on but it would be completely irrelevant, 99% of the forum knows more about this game than the next guy. so there's no room for discussions, just people bashing their face off the keyboard until you accept "their" reality.
|
The guy you quoted exactly stated that Stephano has yet to prove his talent. And "Time will tell" what he and Nerchio and Mana are capable of.
So why are you demanding some results again?
This is just getting into some serious trolling. - from both sides
|
On September 27 2011 09:18 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 08:11 5ukkub wrote:On September 27 2011 07:57 inamorato wrote:
Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
Let's see how he does when it comes down to Lan Time. I don't want to take anything away from the guy but he got spanked at HSC.
Oh and Mana having best PvT in the world.
Does anyone watch the GSL???? Stephano is for sure one of the greatest up and coming players and capable of being a foreign bonjwa, but as many of us said, it is yet to be proven. The same goes for Nerchio and MaNa, although MaNa showed us in some LANs that he may be one of the best foreigners. Those three players have one thing in common: they are very young (17-18 yo) and alerady showing extremely high level of play. We can only wait and see if one of them really decides to be a proffesional (Stephano seems to be leaning towards it more than others). Time will tell. I would only imagine that if they would train in Korea for 1 year like a true korean practices, they would have a very solid shot at winning GSL for sure. On MaNa having the best PvT in the world: well i can assume people were saying that he's the best PvT'er in foreigner scene, since i don't recall him playing in GSL Foreign Bonjwa? What are you talking about? Nerchio? Stephano? Mana? I don't even want you to ever use the word Bonjwa again because you clearly don't understand the meaning. Regardless of you stating future or not. MaNa showed some tournaments? What offline tournaments? HSC cup 2 where it was like 4 people and he got silver losing to Naniwa. WHAT HAS STEPHANO done? It seems like so much of this community has this inpenetrable foreign ego complex that they're unable to accept reality. WHO CARES. As of right now, all of the players you mentioned have done absolutely next to nothing in offline tournaments. NOTHING. You come to this forum and learn words like bonjwa, metagame, etc and you just toss them around like you're familiar, which your clearly not. edit: there's so many post's that I could focus in on but it would be completely irrelevant, 99% of the forum knows more about this game than the next guy. so there's no room for discussions, just people bashing their face off the keyboard until you accept "their" reality.
did you know that there are Lan tournaments in europe?
yes, there is other things then MLG 2010 results you refer to (where idra had his time... 2011 he is top 20 cause of mlg system - thats all)
Dreamhack (where mana got #2), IEM, German, French and Russian National lans, Assembly, Copenhagen games...
and... WATCH THE GAMES.
MaNa rapes PvT everyone, whoever doubts that hes the best foreign PvT player has no idea what hes talking about. Hes 6-4 maps vs PuMa (on and offline), 2-0d nada offline.
Same goes for Nerchio and Stephano vs any race atm, just they hadnt any possibily to proove it on the MAJOR stage for ppl like you who see 10 games / month.
btw: Stephano 2-0d HuK offline, on HuK's prime dreamhack/HSC win time.
The term bonjwa is obviously bullshit, but all you say is bullshit as well.
Why do americans who know absolutly nothing about the european scene even talk? In ALL tournaments where europe and north america faced Europeans did WAY better. HuK overshines things, after that there used to be nothing from NA.
Drewbie for instance is concidered one of the best NA terrans - and he is prolly the best after select and major.
Quick note on his results in his "vs europe" series:
White-ra, dimaga, beastyqt, goody, kas 16-2 drewbie
White-ra, kas, goody 11-3 catz
just 2 expamples... and the funny thing is: there is a shittons of players on that level in europe, prolly about 20-25.
|
On September 27 2011 09:11 inamorato wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 08:20 Badboyrune wrote:On September 27 2011 07:57 inamorato wrote:
Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
Let's see how he does when it comes down to Lan Time. I don't want to take anything away from the guy but he got spanked at HSC.
Oh and Mana having best PvT in the world.
Does anyone watch the GSL???? Just out of curiosity who would you say has the best PvT in the world? GSL doesn't really have a strong showing of protoss talent as of late and I can't seem to remember anyone having a particular stellar PvT. I would think that with the amount of terran in code s anyone who is very strong vT would make a name for themself somewhat handily The point that I am trying to convey is that this in comparison is so volatile in comparison to BW. To suggest that 1 player has the best PvT in the world is nonsensical. I don't recall Mana beating anyone legitimate top tier PvT on Lan. I remember him getting stomped by Bomber at DH, and the thing is, since BW I thought Mana was a good player. Following into Beta he was a a good player, and up until now he is a good player. If I would have to say who the best PvT in the world, I like Alicia. I know he lost to select, and tod, but I still feel like his PvT is more of a intelligent fines play. I feel like I shouldn't have to have stated this but most people won't comprehend the above paragraph. BTW there are a lot of Korean protoss who just haven't been able to display their skill yet. I mean look at Hero, Sage, Oz. These guys have all beaten, and as of recently top terrans.
I fully agree on that most matchups are too volatile to point out who's best in any of them (except zvz, nestea still seems to be leaps and bounds ahead of everyone). I was actually just curious about who actually has good PvT, since I play zerg it's is probably the matchup I know least about.
|
On September 27 2011 08:29 Phobbers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 08:21 Gackt_ wrote:
I honestly cant see how people can rate Thorzain and Huk as better players than Sen. :S
Sure he hasnt been into alot of international tournaments compared to the others but he is probably the one who can beat most of the top koreans out of all those people on the list that you can vote for.
Not to take anything away from Sen, I feel he is an incredible player, but he just hasn't had too many results. There are only two large results that he has put up, and those being, 3rd at NASL which was quite some time ago and then his first place finish at the TW B.net invitational, and the only "true" way to really judge the caliber and skill of a player is through lans.
Sen's stream should be enough tbh. He constantly plays vs koreans on the ladder since he is on the TW/KR server obviously, meeting people like leenock, alica, seed, yoda etc
He was actually in GSL season 2, Sc2 was pretty new but still, he lost to NesTea in 2 very very close games, the season were NesTea won his first GSL.
I would say Sen is the best Zerg out there after NesTea, Losira and DRG. His skills are similar to Leenock's but not the same style. Total baller! 
|
I voted for huk over thorzain. I'd like to see that match tho.
I also voted for white-ra over IdrA ;p
I'd like to see that game too tho.
|
I think that Thorzain is by far the best foreigner. Idra was good when he was in Korea. Now he is totally over rated. I feel WhiteRa missed the boat.
as of now, the top foreigners would be ThorZain, Mana, Huk, Sen and not in any order!
|
On September 27 2011 10:58 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 09:18 inamorato wrote:On September 27 2011 08:11 5ukkub wrote:On September 27 2011 07:57 inamorato wrote:
Enough with this heresy. Stephano, he's beaten people in online qualifiers. Great. He is a good player, but people are acting as if he won a platinum mouse. He's a good player but every page I read there's at least 5 people talking about him being the best player in the world.
Let's see how he does when it comes down to Lan Time. I don't want to take anything away from the guy but he got spanked at HSC.
Oh and Mana having best PvT in the world.
Does anyone watch the GSL???? Stephano is for sure one of the greatest up and coming players and capable of being a foreign bonjwa, but as many of us said, it is yet to be proven. The same goes for Nerchio and MaNa, although MaNa showed us in some LANs that he may be one of the best foreigners. Those three players have one thing in common: they are very young (17-18 yo) and alerady showing extremely high level of play. We can only wait and see if one of them really decides to be a proffesional (Stephano seems to be leaning towards it more than others). Time will tell. I would only imagine that if they would train in Korea for 1 year like a true korean practices, they would have a very solid shot at winning GSL for sure. On MaNa having the best PvT in the world: well i can assume people were saying that he's the best PvT'er in foreigner scene, since i don't recall him playing in GSL Foreign Bonjwa? What are you talking about? Nerchio? Stephano? Mana? I don't even want you to ever use the word Bonjwa again because you clearly don't understand the meaning. Regardless of you stating future or not. MaNa showed some tournaments? What offline tournaments? HSC cup 2 where it was like 4 people and he got silver losing to Naniwa. WHAT HAS STEPHANO done? It seems like so much of this community has this inpenetrable foreign ego complex that they're unable to accept reality. WHO CARES. As of right now, all of the players you mentioned have done absolutely next to nothing in offline tournaments. NOTHING. You come to this forum and learn words like bonjwa, metagame, etc and you just toss them around like you're familiar, which your clearly not. edit: there's so many post's that I could focus in on but it would be completely irrelevant, 99% of the forum knows more about this game than the next guy. so there's no room for discussions, just people bashing their face off the keyboard until you accept "their" reality. did you know that there are Lan tournaments in europe? yes, there is other things then MLG 2010 results you refer to (where idra had his time... 2011 he is top 20 cause of mlg system - thats all) Dreamhack (where mana got #2), IEM, German, French and Russian National lans, Assembly, Copenhagen games... and... WATCH THE GAMES. MaNa rapes PvT everyone, whoever doubts that hes the best foreign PvT player has no idea what hes talking about. Hes 6-4 maps vs PuMa (on and offline), 2-0d nada offline. Same goes for Nerchio and Stephano vs any race atm, just they hadnt any possibily to proove it on the MAJOR stage for ppl like you who see 10 games / month. btw: Stephano 2-0d HuK offline, on HuK's prime dreamhack/HSC win time. The term bonjwa is obviously bullshit, but all you say is bullshit as well. Why do americans who know absolutly nothing about the european scene even talk? In ALL tournaments where europe and north america faced Europeans did WAY better. HuK overshines things, after that there used to be nothing from NA. Drewbie for instance is concidered one of the best NA terrans - and he is prolly the best after select and major. Quick note on his results in his "vs europe" series: White-ra, dimaga, beastyqt, goody, kas 16-2 drewbie White-ra, kas, goody 11-3 catz just 2 expamples... and the funny thing is: there is a shittons of players on that level in europe, prolly about 20-25.
Everyone knows EU has a deeper and better talent pool of players than NA. People who argue otherwise are deluded. But to say that mana has the best PvT in the world? He most likely has the best foreign PvT but in the world? That's debatable only because Korean protoss have to face the gauntlet of Korean terrans.
|
On September 27 2011 08:16 Fanek wrote:
Best Foreigner? where is Nerchio?
it's rly funny, he won in this week like 5 EU online tournaments?
in gosugamers cup he was second
today he won Millenium tournament
he show a lot amazing games
Idra? is he won something in this year?
There's your answer <___< same thing with Stephano methinks. People want to see how they perform at LANs (under more pressure) rather than at home in their most comfortable setting on online tournaments. As mentioned before, Stephano got stomped rather nicely at HSC and Nerchio hasn't done so hot offline either.
|
On September 27 2011 11:17 Gackt_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 08:29 Phobbers wrote:On September 27 2011 08:21 Gackt_ wrote:
I honestly cant see how people can rate Thorzain and Huk as better players than Sen. :S
Sure he hasnt been into alot of international tournaments compared to the others but he is probably the one who can beat most of the top koreans out of all those people on the list that you can vote for.
Not to take anything away from Sen, I feel he is an incredible player, but he just hasn't had too many results. There are only two large results that he has put up, and those being, 3rd at NASL which was quite some time ago and then his first place finish at the TW B.net invitational, and the only "true" way to really judge the caliber and skill of a player is through lans. Sen's stream should be enough tbh. He constantly plays vs koreans on the ladder since he is on the TW/KR server obviously, meeting people like leenock, alica, seed, yoda etc He was actually in GSL season 2, Sc2 was pretty new but still, he lost to NesTea in 2 very very close games, the season were NesTea won his first GSL. I would say Sen is the best Zerg out there after NesTea, Losira and DRG. His skills are similar to Leenock's but not the same style. Total baller!
Ladder means nothing, I mean look at Nestea, his ladder account is still in masters, but does that mean he is a terrible player compared to someone who is in GM? No. Pertaining to your GSL season 2 comment, Idra was the only non-korean to qualify for all three seasons, does that mean he gets uber points for being best player in world !!11!1! No. Once again, I don't wish to take anything away from Sen, I think he is an amazing player, but I view him in the same scenario that people view Stephano, a fair amount of hype coupled with the fact of decent results, but overall he lacks representation at lans, which is the true area to deem if someone is a true "boss" or not.
|
EU and NA tournaments don't matter. If there is a korean invite they win. This has been proven over and over and will only continue to happen. I have respect for the people who go over to Korea and discover just how far behind everyone else is and basically have to relearn how to play.
|
On September 27 2011 12:52 Loki57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 08:16 Fanek wrote:
Best Foreigner? where is Nerchio?
it's rly funny, he won in this week like 5 EU online tournaments?
in gosugamers cup he was second
today he won Millenium tournament
he show a lot amazing games
Idra? is he won something in this year? There's your answer <___< same thing with Stephano methinks. People want to see how they perform at LANs (under more pressure) rather than at home in their most comfortable setting on online tournaments. As mentioned before, Stephano got stomped rather nicely at HSC and Nerchio hasn't done so hot offline either.
Stomped? He placed 5th beatign Huk 2-0 Lost to Thorzain and MC
His group:
1. Stephano 3-0
2. HuK 2-1
3. iNSoLeNCE 1-2
4. NarutO 0-3
Then he lost to Thorzain 2-0 got into losers bracket and did this:
Jinro 0
Stephano 2
Stephano 2
XlorD 0
White-Ra 1
Stephano 2
MC 2
Stephano 0
He placed 5th together with Idra. This was his first Lan ever and he did all this being an amateur player. If this is getting stomped he can get stomped all day in my book
Some of you people just spouting crap did you even watch HSC 3?
|
On September 27 2011 13:07 Lunas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 12:52 Loki57 wrote:On September 27 2011 08:16 Fanek wrote:
Best Foreigner? where is Nerchio?
it's rly funny, he won in this week like 5 EU online tournaments?
in gosugamers cup he was second
today he won Millenium tournament
he show a lot amazing games
Idra? is he won something in this year? There's your answer <___< same thing with Stephano methinks. People want to see how they perform at LANs (under more pressure) rather than at home in their most comfortable setting on online tournaments. As mentioned before, Stephano got stomped rather nicely at HSC and Nerchio hasn't done so hot offline either. Stomped? He placed 5th beatign Huk 2-0 Lost to Thorzain and MC His group: 1. Stephano 3-0 2. HuK 2-1 3. iNSoLeNCE 1-2 4. NarutO 0-3 Then he lost to Thorzain 2-0 got into losers bracket and did this: Jinro 0 Stephano 2 Stephano 2 XlorD 0 White-Ra 1 Stephano 2 MC 2 Stephano 0 He placed 5th together with Idra. This was his first Lan ever and he did all this being an amateur player. If this is getting stomped he can get stomped all day in my book Some of you people just spouting crap did you even watch HSC 3?
He is very good, but he isn't "the best" foreigner yet, he needs more exposure at LANS with a couple more strong performances, online cups count for next to nothing tbh. Players play completely differently when online vs LAN.
|
On September 27 2011 13:11 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 13:07 Lunas wrote:On September 27 2011 12:52 Loki57 wrote:On September 27 2011 08:16 Fanek wrote:
Best Foreigner? where is Nerchio?
it's rly funny, he won in this week like 5 EU online tournaments?
in gosugamers cup he was second
today he won Millenium tournament
he show a lot amazing games
Idra? is he won something in this year? There's your answer <___< same thing with Stephano methinks. People want to see how they perform at LANs (under more pressure) rather than at home in their most comfortable setting on online tournaments. As mentioned before, Stephano got stomped rather nicely at HSC and Nerchio hasn't done so hot offline either. Stomped? He placed 5th beatign Huk 2-0 Lost to Thorzain and MC His group: 1. Stephano 3-0 2. HuK 2-1 3. iNSoLeNCE 1-2 4. NarutO 0-3 Then he lost to Thorzain 2-0 got into losers bracket and did this: Jinro 0 Stephano 2 Stephano 2 XlorD 0 White-Ra 1 Stephano 2 MC 2 Stephano 0 He placed 5th together with Idra. This was his first Lan ever and he did all this being an amateur player. If this is getting stomped he can get stomped all day in my book Some of you people just spouting crap did you even watch HSC 3? He is very good, but he isn't "the best" foreigner yet, he needs more exposure at LANS with a couple more strong performances, online cups count for next to nothing tbh. Players play completely differently when online vs LAN.
Ofc he isn't the best buddy but saying Stephano haven't proved himself at Lan is just silly
|
On September 27 2011 13:13 Lunas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 13:11 Hierarch wrote:On September 27 2011 13:07 Lunas wrote:On September 27 2011 12:52 Loki57 wrote:On September 27 2011 08:16 Fanek wrote:
Best Foreigner? where is Nerchio?
it's rly funny, he won in this week like 5 EU online tournaments?
in gosugamers cup he was second
today he won Millenium tournament
he show a lot amazing games
Idra? is he won something in this year? There's your answer <___< same thing with Stephano methinks. People want to see how they perform at LANs (under more pressure) rather than at home in their most comfortable setting on online tournaments. As mentioned before, Stephano got stomped rather nicely at HSC and Nerchio hasn't done so hot offline either. Stomped? He placed 5th beatign Huk 2-0 Lost to Thorzain and MC His group: 1. Stephano 3-0 2. HuK 2-1 3. iNSoLeNCE 1-2 4. NarutO 0-3 Then he lost to Thorzain 2-0 got into losers bracket and did this: Jinro 0 Stephano 2 Stephano 2 XlorD 0 White-Ra 1 Stephano 2 MC 2 Stephano 0 He placed 5th together with Idra. This was his first Lan ever and he did all this being an amateur player. If this is getting stomped he can get stomped all day in my book Some of you people just spouting crap did you even watch HSC 3? He is very good, but he isn't "the best" foreigner yet, he needs more exposure at LANS with a couple more strong performances, online cups count for next to nothing tbh. Players play completely differently when online vs LAN. Ofc he isn't the best buddy but saying Stephano haven't proved himself at Lan is just silly
I never said that though
I watched HSC 3 and assembly summer where he got 3rd, I know how good he is.
|
Thorzain is the best at the moment but not living in Korea his skill will begin to diminish (see rain), while at the same time HuK has time to refocus and practice and SaSe, Sjow, Nani, Select ect. are all hungry as hell, so I don't see him holding that position for very long.
|
i think thorzain gets my vote as he is very very consistent imo.
with that said i this hate this OP for spreading misinformation (select is korean).
might as well make "what is best cheese?" and put 4 gate in there. (and shit load of people will vote for it genuinely)
|
On September 27 2011 14:17 jinorazi wrote:
i think thorzain gets my vote as he is very very consistent imo.
with that said i this hate this OP for spreading misinformation (select is korean).
might as well make "what is best cheese?" and put 4 gate in there. (and shit load of people will vote for it genuinely)
Pertaining to the Select issue, many tend to view Select as a "foreigner" simply because of his long stay in the states, and how his play style so to speak is more in line with the foreigner scene. I mean, Blizzard even invited him to the NA B.Net invite rather than the Korean B.net invite. But once again, I hope this doesn't spur into a ridiculous argument of who is korean and who is not, along with who is a foreigner and who is not. Just attempting to "quell" your rage towards the OP for his opinion, seeing as he is one who goes along with the opinion of Select being a "foreigner".
|
no doubt in my mind that it's Huk
select and thorzain are close
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
