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I feel that SjoW should really be on that list instead of for example Kas. I think SjoW is probably top7 foreigners or something like that.. It's hard to not say HuK though, his results speak for themselves..
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Question was about current skill. You don't put HuK to #1 because GSL aug ro8. You don't become the best foreign by winning nada and killer. It's fanboyism to claim he's DEFINATELY the best right now. There's just no proof to support that. Be openminded and at least wait next big LAN to see if the mentioned "underdogs" mana and stephano might do it. But I suppose stephano isn't attending much LANs outside Europe (?) so we may not know very soon if he can accomplish his online status in LANs also. Same goes for Sen - we don't really know if he should be ranked #1 or #10 or #25 seeing he's stuck in Taiwan.
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4713 Posts
I have to agree with Blasphemi's post regarding Stephano, yes he may be tearing up ladder and smaller tournaments, but its the big LAN events that matter, and some players have buckled under the pressure, lost their nerves and then just straight up lost.
I don't want to bash Stephano, he is a great player, but it feels like players are over hyping him. I eagerly await IPL 3 to see just how good Stephano really is. If he wins IPL 3, or gets 2nd place in a very close final then I'll be very impressed and I'll count him as a top foreigner, though in my opinion he also needs to win MLG Orlando or get in the top 6 to be the best foreigner.
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On September 26 2011 19:17 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 19:12 ineq wrote:On September 26 2011 18:01 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I feel that nowadays stephano deserves this spot, this guy is on fire
this week end :
Saturday : destroys FXO KOTH tournament beating : Beastyqt, Socke, kas, Gibs
Wins SCAN dignitas tournament beating : Kas ( 2 - 0 ), Socke ( 2-0 ) and Tod ( 3-1 )
i can t wait to see how he performs at IPL and MLG. Also : lol idra on the list.
i believe that it's pretty close between thorzain, mana and stephano Stephano doesn't even belong in the top 10. Perhaps if the only Sc2 you ever watched was in the last week I could understand but a guy with no major LAN wins ever does not belong in any top player list. The following players have achieved more in the last four months the Stephano. I use four months as I feel it's not too long to be considered dated but is long enough to make a proper judgement. Thorzain: Dreamhack Valencia (2nd) TSL3 Huk: Dreamhack Summer, Homestory, Code S Idra: IPL 1, MLG Columbus (4th, top non Korean) White Ra: IPL 2 Ret: Blizzcon EU Select: Blizzcon NA Naniwa: Blizzcon EU (2nd), Homestory (2nd), TSL3 (2nd) Dimaga: Assembly Summer Sen: NASL (3rd, top non Korean) Mana: IEM Cologne (3rd, top non Korean), Assembly Summer (2nd) In tournaments that matter (and not small online cups or ladder), those ten players have all outperformed Stephano and that is a fact. Going on former achievements would mean that MC is still the best player in the world, do you actually believe that? No it wouldn't. Nestea has the best achievements of any player in the last four months with MVP in second. And it's funny you bash MC cause he got second in NASL, second in IEM, third in MLG. In foreign events MC is still destroying everyone except tip top Koreans.
It's funny how you mention his good placements, but not the fact that he's in Code B.
I just think some of those achievements listed are pretty irrelevant. Starcraft 2 is not even close to the same game it was in april-june.
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On September 26 2011 19:38 ineq wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 19:17 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 19:12 ineq wrote:On September 26 2011 18:01 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I feel that nowadays stephano deserves this spot, this guy is on fire
this week end :
Saturday : destroys FXO KOTH tournament beating : Beastyqt, Socke, kas, Gibs
Wins SCAN dignitas tournament beating : Kas ( 2 - 0 ), Socke ( 2-0 ) and Tod ( 3-1 )
i can t wait to see how he performs at IPL and MLG. Also : lol idra on the list.
i believe that it's pretty close between thorzain, mana and stephano Stephano doesn't even belong in the top 10. Perhaps if the only Sc2 you ever watched was in the last week I could understand but a guy with no major LAN wins ever does not belong in any top player list. The following players have achieved more in the last four months the Stephano. I use four months as I feel it's not too long to be considered dated but is long enough to make a proper judgement. Thorzain: Dreamhack Valencia (2nd) TSL3 Huk: Dreamhack Summer, Homestory, Code S Idra: IPL 1, MLG Columbus (4th, top non Korean) White Ra: IPL 2 Ret: Blizzcon EU Select: Blizzcon NA Naniwa: Blizzcon EU (2nd), Homestory (2nd), TSL3 (2nd) Dimaga: Assembly Summer Sen: NASL (3rd, top non Korean) Mana: IEM Cologne (3rd, top non Korean), Assembly Summer (2nd) In tournaments that matter (and not small online cups or ladder), those ten players have all outperformed Stephano and that is a fact. Going on former achievements would mean that MC is still the best player in the world, do you actually believe that? No it wouldn't. Nestea has the best achievements of any player in the last four months with MVP in second. And it's funny you bash MC cause he got second in NASL, second in IEM, third in MLG. In foreign events MC is still destroying everyone except tip top Koreans. It's funny how you mention his good placements, but not the fact that he's in Code B. I just think some of those achievements listed are pretty irrelevant. Starcraft 2 is not even close to the same game it was in april-june.
MC has better finishes in recent tournaments than Mana, Thorzain and Stephano easilly. He's actually beaten all three without dropping a set in those tournaments, in fact none of those players have finished above MC in any tournament except Thorzain in TSL. He might be Code B but his results in tournaments are still much better than those three guys, so I don't know why you're shitting on MC.
So the best player in the world is whoever won the last big tournament? That's a far more ridiculous way of measuring it.
Again, do you consider Jangbi to be better than Flash?
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so much hate in this thread...even to our beloved mc and idra
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I dunno how I feel about the title of this poll. Maybe "The best Foreigner right now" or something.
Edit: Hmm... My bias says IdrA, so I'll go with that.
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On September 26 2011 19:18 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 19:06 JayJay_90 wrote:On September 26 2011 18:01 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I feel that nowadays stephano deserves this spot, this guy is on fire
this week end :
Saturday : destroys FXO KOTH tournament beating : Beastyqt, Socke, kas, Gibs
Wins SCAN dignitas tournament beating : Kas ( 2 - 0 ), Socke ( 2-0 ) and Tod ( 3-1 )
i can t wait to see how he performs at IPL and MLG. Also : lol idra on the list.
i believe that it's pretty close between thorzain, mana and stephano Stephano doesn't even belong in the top 10. Perhaps if the only Sc2 you ever watched was in the last week I could understand but a guy with no major LAN wins ever does not belong in any top player list. The following players have achieved more in the last four months the Stephano. I use four months as I feel it's not too long to be considered dated but is long enough to make a proper judgement. Thorzain: Dreamhack Valencia (2nd) TSL3 Huk: Dreamhack Summer, Homestory, Code S Idra: IPL 1, MLG Columbus (4th, top non Korean) White Ra: IPL 2 Ret: Blizzcon EU Select: Blizzcon NA Naniwa: Blizzcon EU (2nd), Homestory (2nd), TSL3 (2nd) Dimaga: Assembly Summer Sen: NASL (3rd, top non Korean) Mana: IEM Cologne (3rd, top non Korean), Assembly Summer (2nd) In tournaments that matter (and not small online cups or ladder), those ten players have all outperformed Stephano and that is a fact. Your post doesn't make any sense. This thread is about the best foreigner (=the one with the highest level of skill right now), not the most achieved. Sure you need something to judge skill and that's results. But you can only look at very recent results, otherwise they're meaningless in this context. If you're talking about achiements, then ladder and "small" online tournaments are not important, but to judge someone's skill, they're perfectly fine, if the competition is tough. I gotta agree with Dawg_Snow, I've seen you post so much nonsense over the last few days that i can only hope you're in hardcore trolling mode. So is Jangbi a better player than Flash?
I don't know who Jangbi is and i'm not interested in broodwar, sorry.
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Its like football(not hand-egg), one good game and you get hyped up like never before.
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On September 26 2011 19:55 VashTS wrote:
I dunno how I feel about the title of this poll. Maybe "The best Foreigner right now" or something.
Edit: Hmm... My bias says IdrA, so I'll go with that.
Don't get me wrong, i like Idra a lot, but how would you justify saying that Idra is the best player?
Assuming this thread isn't asking "Best foreginer during the beta?" i honestly don't see how you can place him above players like Naniwa, Thorzain, Huk.
He hasn't accomplished much lately, he got #2nd in TL open NA where the only other known player was Desrow and heart.
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On September 26 2011 19:40 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 19:38 ineq wrote:On September 26 2011 19:17 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 19:12 ineq wrote:On September 26 2011 18:01 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I feel that nowadays stephano deserves this spot, this guy is on fire
this week end :
Saturday : destroys FXO KOTH tournament beating : Beastyqt, Socke, kas, Gibs
Wins SCAN dignitas tournament beating : Kas ( 2 - 0 ), Socke ( 2-0 ) and Tod ( 3-1 )
i can t wait to see how he performs at IPL and MLG. Also : lol idra on the list.
i believe that it's pretty close between thorzain, mana and stephano Stephano doesn't even belong in the top 10. Perhaps if the only Sc2 you ever watched was in the last week I could understand but a guy with no major LAN wins ever does not belong in any top player list. The following players have achieved more in the last four months the Stephano. I use four months as I feel it's not too long to be considered dated but is long enough to make a proper judgement. Thorzain: Dreamhack Valencia (2nd) TSL3 Huk: Dreamhack Summer, Homestory, Code S Idra: IPL 1, MLG Columbus (4th, top non Korean) White Ra: IPL 2 Ret: Blizzcon EU Select: Blizzcon NA Naniwa: Blizzcon EU (2nd), Homestory (2nd), TSL3 (2nd) Dimaga: Assembly Summer Sen: NASL (3rd, top non Korean) Mana: IEM Cologne (3rd, top non Korean), Assembly Summer (2nd) In tournaments that matter (and not small online cups or ladder), those ten players have all outperformed Stephano and that is a fact. Going on former achievements would mean that MC is still the best player in the world, do you actually believe that? No it wouldn't. Nestea has the best achievements of any player in the last four months with MVP in second. And it's funny you bash MC cause he got second in NASL, second in IEM, third in MLG. In foreign events MC is still destroying everyone except tip top Koreans. It's funny how you mention his good placements, but not the fact that he's in Code B. I just think some of those achievements listed are pretty irrelevant. Starcraft 2 is not even close to the same game it was in april-june. MC has better finishes in recent tournaments than Mana, Thorzain and Stephano easilly. He's actually beaten all three without dropping a set in those tournaments, in fact none of those players have finished above MC in any tournament except Thorzain in TSL. He might be Code B but his results in tournaments are still much better than those three guys, so I don't know why you're shitting on MC. So the best player in the world is whoever won the last big tournament? That's a far more ridiculous way of measuring it. Again, do you consider Jangbi to be better than Flash?
I'm not bashing on MC, i'm just using him as an example because i feel that your argument is pretty out there.
Take IdrA for example; he won IPL1 and had good showings at MLG a while back, and now he's not even close to the foreign top. Would you not agree that Stephano is better than IdrA even though results are suggesting differently?
Would you not say that ThorZaIN is better than most foreigners (if not all), even though he's only won ONE tournament? It's not all results.
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On September 26 2011 20:19 JayJay_90 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 19:18 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 19:06 JayJay_90 wrote:On September 26 2011 18:01 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I feel that nowadays stephano deserves this spot, this guy is on fire
this week end :
Saturday : destroys FXO KOTH tournament beating : Beastyqt, Socke, kas, Gibs
Wins SCAN dignitas tournament beating : Kas ( 2 - 0 ), Socke ( 2-0 ) and Tod ( 3-1 )
i can t wait to see how he performs at IPL and MLG. Also : lol idra on the list.
i believe that it's pretty close between thorzain, mana and stephano Stephano doesn't even belong in the top 10. Perhaps if the only Sc2 you ever watched was in the last week I could understand but a guy with no major LAN wins ever does not belong in any top player list. The following players have achieved more in the last four months the Stephano. I use four months as I feel it's not too long to be considered dated but is long enough to make a proper judgement. Thorzain: Dreamhack Valencia (2nd) TSL3 Huk: Dreamhack Summer, Homestory, Code S Idra: IPL 1, MLG Columbus (4th, top non Korean) White Ra: IPL 2 Ret: Blizzcon EU Select: Blizzcon NA Naniwa: Blizzcon EU (2nd), Homestory (2nd), TSL3 (2nd) Dimaga: Assembly Summer Sen: NASL (3rd, top non Korean) Mana: IEM Cologne (3rd, top non Korean), Assembly Summer (2nd) In tournaments that matter (and not small online cups or ladder), those ten players have all outperformed Stephano and that is a fact. Your post doesn't make any sense. This thread is about the best foreigner (=the one with the highest level of skill right now), not the most achieved. Sure you need something to judge skill and that's results. But you can only look at very recent results, otherwise they're meaningless in this context. If you're talking about achiements, then ladder and "small" online tournaments are not important, but to judge someone's skill, they're perfectly fine, if the competition is tough. I gotta agree with Dawg_Snow, I've seen you post so much nonsense over the last few days that i can only hope you're in hardcore trolling mode. So is Jangbi a better player than Flash? I don't know who Jangbi is and i'm not interested in broodwar, sorry.
Well, since you're too lazy to research...
Inca came 2nd in a GSL where MVP placed low. Is Inca a better player than MVP? How about when July bane-busted MVP out of GSL after MVP won, is July a better player overall?
A single series (or set of tourney results) isn't an automatic tell of who the better player is.
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On September 26 2011 21:09 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 20:19 JayJay_90 wrote:On September 26 2011 19:18 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 19:06 JayJay_90 wrote:On September 26 2011 18:01 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I feel that nowadays stephano deserves this spot, this guy is on fire
this week end :
Saturday : destroys FXO KOTH tournament beating : Beastyqt, Socke, kas, Gibs
Wins SCAN dignitas tournament beating : Kas ( 2 - 0 ), Socke ( 2-0 ) and Tod ( 3-1 )
i can t wait to see how he performs at IPL and MLG. Also : lol idra on the list.
i believe that it's pretty close between thorzain, mana and stephano Stephano doesn't even belong in the top 10. Perhaps if the only Sc2 you ever watched was in the last week I could understand but a guy with no major LAN wins ever does not belong in any top player list. The following players have achieved more in the last four months the Stephano. I use four months as I feel it's not too long to be considered dated but is long enough to make a proper judgement. Thorzain: Dreamhack Valencia (2nd) TSL3 Huk: Dreamhack Summer, Homestory, Code S Idra: IPL 1, MLG Columbus (4th, top non Korean) White Ra: IPL 2 Ret: Blizzcon EU Select: Blizzcon NA Naniwa: Blizzcon EU (2nd), Homestory (2nd), TSL3 (2nd) Dimaga: Assembly Summer Sen: NASL (3rd, top non Korean) Mana: IEM Cologne (3rd, top non Korean), Assembly Summer (2nd) In tournaments that matter (and not small online cups or ladder), those ten players have all outperformed Stephano and that is a fact. Your post doesn't make any sense. This thread is about the best foreigner (=the one with the highest level of skill right now), not the most achieved. Sure you need something to judge skill and that's results. But you can only look at very recent results, otherwise they're meaningless in this context. If you're talking about achiements, then ladder and "small" online tournaments are not important, but to judge someone's skill, they're perfectly fine, if the competition is tough. I gotta agree with Dawg_Snow, I've seen you post so much nonsense over the last few days that i can only hope you're in hardcore trolling mode. So is Jangbi a better player than Flash? I don't know who Jangbi is and i'm not interested in broodwar, sorry. Well, since you're too lazy to research... Inca came 2nd in a GSL where MVP placed low. Is Inca a better player than MVP? How about when July bane-busted MVP out of GSL after MVP won, is July a better player overall? A single series (or set of tourney results) isn't an automatic tell of who the better player is.
You're twisting my words. Also by your logic, that one series doesn't mean that much (which is true), you're just supporting my argument, because then ladder would be the ultimate way to determine skill, since that's where so many more games are played than in tournaments. I wouldn't go that far though. I think tournament results do matter aswell. 
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On September 26 2011 21:20 JayJay_90 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 21:09 Dfgj wrote:On September 26 2011 20:19 JayJay_90 wrote:On September 26 2011 19:18 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 19:06 JayJay_90 wrote:On September 26 2011 18:01 Blasphemi wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 Dawg_Snow wrote:
I feel that nowadays stephano deserves this spot, this guy is on fire
this week end :
Saturday : destroys FXO KOTH tournament beating : Beastyqt, Socke, kas, Gibs
Wins SCAN dignitas tournament beating : Kas ( 2 - 0 ), Socke ( 2-0 ) and Tod ( 3-1 )
i can t wait to see how he performs at IPL and MLG. Also : lol idra on the list.
i believe that it's pretty close between thorzain, mana and stephano Stephano doesn't even belong in the top 10. Perhaps if the only Sc2 you ever watched was in the last week I could understand but a guy with no major LAN wins ever does not belong in any top player list. The following players have achieved more in the last four months the Stephano. I use four months as I feel it's not too long to be considered dated but is long enough to make a proper judgement. Thorzain: Dreamhack Valencia (2nd) TSL3 Huk: Dreamhack Summer, Homestory, Code S Idra: IPL 1, MLG Columbus (4th, top non Korean) White Ra: IPL 2 Ret: Blizzcon EU Select: Blizzcon NA Naniwa: Blizzcon EU (2nd), Homestory (2nd), TSL3 (2nd) Dimaga: Assembly Summer Sen: NASL (3rd, top non Korean) Mana: IEM Cologne (3rd, top non Korean), Assembly Summer (2nd) In tournaments that matter (and not small online cups or ladder), those ten players have all outperformed Stephano and that is a fact. Your post doesn't make any sense. This thread is about the best foreigner (=the one with the highest level of skill right now), not the most achieved. Sure you need something to judge skill and that's results. But you can only look at very recent results, otherwise they're meaningless in this context. If you're talking about achiements, then ladder and "small" online tournaments are not important, but to judge someone's skill, they're perfectly fine, if the competition is tough. I gotta agree with Dawg_Snow, I've seen you post so much nonsense over the last few days that i can only hope you're in hardcore trolling mode. So is Jangbi a better player than Flash? I don't know who Jangbi is and i'm not interested in broodwar, sorry. Well, since you're too lazy to research... Inca came 2nd in a GSL where MVP placed low. Is Inca a better player than MVP? How about when July bane-busted MVP out of GSL after MVP won, is July a better player overall? A single series (or set of tourney results) isn't an automatic tell of who the better player is. You're twisting my words. Also by your logic, that one series doesn't mean that much (which is true), you're just supporting my argument, because then ladder would be the ultimate way to determine skill, since that's where so many more games are played than in tournaments. I wouldn't go that far though. I think tournament results do matter aswell.
No, I'm translating a post that you put down, and adding context to the example.
Obviously results matter, because the objective is to win. But we recognize the game is volatile, so it's important to actually look at the games as well, and one set typically isn't enough to give a conclusion.
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Can someone tell me what is the relation between Sen and olympic flag?
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So much talk about Stephano. Please stop it. At the moment he is a nobody with a good ladder run.
It was so funny to see Spanish people hype Lucifron and than he choked in front of DRG and he looked like a diamond player.
So shhhhhhh!
On topic, Thorzain all the way. Huk second.
Idra is not what he can be.
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I'd have to agree with Dawg_snow about Blasphemi trolling on every thread where stephano's name comes up. That having been said, I voted Thorzain, but I was torn between him, Huk, Mana, and Stephano. I'm a huge Idra fan, but he doesn't deserve to be on this list.
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EPT
