EPT[Poll] Best Foreigner? - Page 36
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Kuja
United States1759 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 25 2011 13:16 Joey Wheeler wrote: So are we now assuming that Thorzain wins 100% of his games? Because to me, it seems much lower than that, and by being more aggressive he can change that. Yes, of course Terran has strong self defense. But they also have amazing harassing capabilities. Why not use both? Also, who wants to watch a passive player? It's incredibly boring. No, he doesn't win 100%, but he wins A LOT, and he's very very good with that style. Clearly he isn't perfect, and yeah, sometimes he makes mistakes when playing defensively and lets his opponent catch up, but it's pretty rare that it happens after he's got an advantage. There's a reason that The Emperor himself said that ThorZaiN was the one player he loved to watch and learned a lot from, and the player MMA said in an interview at MLG that is probably the best foreigner hands down. Yeah, passive play can sometimes be boring to some people, but then again, so can hyper aggressive pvp's and zvz's. I happen to love watching ThorZaiN play, it's so methodical and thought out. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
On September 25 2011 13:14 FusionMrWet wrote: ^^ wow i fucked that quote up really bad lol, anyway heres wat i meant to say since i couldt seam to fix it idk if i would put the open tournament on the same levels as code s and a, back then players like TLO, incontrol, and other good but not top liners would make the gsl or make it close to qualifying, plus if you think about it fruitdealer won the first gsl but struggles to stay in code a now, and jinro made a great run and also struggles with code a, i think todays gsl's are 10x harder then the open gsl's, talent wise, and format wise just sooo many better players emerged after code a and s started because teams were adding sc2 divisions after seeing how popular it was which brought forth much better talent Perhaps. But qualifying means you have to pass through a pool of 1-2k players, while HuK got a free ride into code A. So he only had to win like 2 Bo3's to get to up and downs. And IdrA was in GSL seasons that weren't open. I agree HuK is playing better atm, but still voted for IdrA because he's still been the best overall in my eyes, and isn't a slouch nowadays either. | ||
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Blasphemi
United Kingdom980 Posts
A lot of you downplay what a huge hole it is in Thorzain's play that he only plays either super passive or 1 or 2 base all in builds. A great player is almost always on the map getting aggressive and dictating the flow of the game, not a guy who sits back and let's his opponents do what they like. MC vs Thorzain at Homestory showed this problem best. | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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Neelia
Germany599 Posts
On September 25 2011 11:27 DiaBoLuS wrote: agree, especially if youre not used to. BUT: MMA said himself how impressed he was with stephano. and its not like its his only achievement^^ Lets just w8 for IPL3 - i expect at elast top 16 from stephano - best foreigner in that tour. It's pretty hard to get not top16 @ipl3. There are just 16 players ._. I'd say Thorzain atm, Huk was not very impressive in the last month. | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
But seriously, ThorZaIN just seems to me as being one of the most talented and dedicated players. Also, why non-Chinese? I mean  Hotmail is super gosu and he would definitely be up there on this list, but China has a different community than Korea. I don't think they're really quite at the level of top level Koreans (maybe I'm wrong since the Chinese community gets little exposure) so I don't really see the point in excluding them. Also as far as political correctness goes, Sen is from Taiwan (also known as The Republic of China) so I really don't quite understand what you're trying to get at by saying "non-Chinese." | ||
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zdfgucker
China594 Posts
Thorzain reminds me a bit of Flash sometimes. Sometimes he's losing in each and every single way, 99.99% of the time he'd lose and then does the one right move to turn around the game completely. Idra, lets face it, is only still that known because of his BM and his bw history plus good play in early gsl seasons. Right now only in his mind is he a top tier pro, his skill level pretty much stayed on the same level while all the Koreans (and quite a few foreigners) improved heavily. Major is what Idra used to be -- an extremely promising foreigner that has shown in bw what he's capable of. | ||
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ForlornHope
Vietnam111 Posts
On September 25 2011 06:19 genius_man16 wrote: HuK is the one who's been in Code S the longest, I don't really care what other results he's had. How MaNa or Kas is on the list is beyond me but whatever. I find it funny how people say IdrA is on the list when he made it to the Ro8 of the GSL, and was in it for 3 straight seasons. The game may have been newer, but that's still WAY more than any other foreigner except HuK. Thorzain is prob #3, SeleCT #4. you idiotic bastard User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On September 25 2011 14:02 synapse wrote: Who would vote thorzain or huk over sen? wtf... Huk is currently Code S and has proven himself to be a very strong player. ThorZaIN has proven time and time again that his TvP is good enough to take out Code S level Ps and his TvZ is capable of defeating some of the best Zs in the world (aka  DongRaeGu--I know he lost, but he lost 3-2 in a TvZ against the player who literally has THE BEST TvZ in the world; the guy just recently beat Mvp 2-0...). I haven't seen much of ThorZaIN's TvT recently, but I'm sure that after his stay in the SlayerS house, he probably knows more about TvT than anyone living outside of Korea. No offense to Sen (he's definitely a great player and there is definitely arguments regarding whether or not he is better or worse than the other two players you mentioned), but it should be completely understandable and clear as to why somebody might pick ThorZaIN or HuK over Sen. | ||
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ypslala
Burma545 Posts
difficult decision between Thorzain and Ret for me. my vote goes for Ret. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
Convincing argument. I think his post is pretty damn stupid too though, I will say that. Ignoring various results for old as shit GSL results is pretty inane, you know that there are former GSL semi-finalists who aren't even Code A anymore. Players we may never even see in the GSL again. Results from 2010 mean very little now, after a year or two of stabilization, older results may hold more weight. | ||
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ForlornHope
Vietnam111 Posts
On September 25 2011 07:21 tuho12345 wrote: Lol, couple games in team league and you put Tzain above HuK already? How about HuK get 2 acekills for oGs then? How many chances have we seen him performed in the GSTL? Not in code S = not competing at the highest level of the game. Anyone that could make it to R8+ is consider really good. //Oh and HongUn is the second best Protoss in the world. Just look at the result and ignore Tasstorsis. Thorzain beat Huk Twice in EG master cup and dreamhack | ||
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Swad1000
United States366 Posts
If Huk beats Thorzain or really anyone for that matter people go apeshit over a protoss beating another race. If Thorzain beats Huk you have well the sad zealot fan club Imo Huk right now is the best because he can beat Koreans offline and is the only one who is in code s. Koreans #1 Huk Everybody Else atm | ||
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ForlornHope
Vietnam111 Posts
On September 25 2011 08:36 FairForever wrote: Agreed. I don't even like Mana but he's just been tearing it up recently. Really Mana and HuK should be 1 and 2 depending on how you see it. Not sure how anyone can justify putting Thorzain at #1, he did decently in the GSTL but other than that hasn't done anything recently. He finished second in the Valencia invitational lost 2-3 to DRG ( got people have know ideal what they saying) | ||
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On September 25 2011 06:19 genius_man16 wrote: HuK is the one who's been in Code S the longest, I don't really care what other results he's had. How MaNa or Kas is on the list is beyond me but whatever. I find it funny how people say IdrA is on the list when he made it to the Ro8 of the GSL, and was in it for 3 straight seasons. The game may have been newer, but that's still WAY more than any other foreigner except HuK. Thorzain is prob #3, SeleCT #4. The game has changed A LOT since IdrA has been in GSL and IdrA has changed a lot too. Jinro made it to Ro4 twice in a row and that was around the same time that IdrA was playing in GSL. I just don't think that arguing IdrA's skill by saying that he was in GSL for those seasons doesn't really mean much. So much has changed since then that it really doesn't make any sense. That being said, I think that there are still plenty of reasons as to why IdrA deserves to be on this list, but it also makes sense that Jinro (who at that time would probably have been voted as #1 on this list back at his prime in the GSL) is not on this list as he has been slumping a lot recently and (even though I love him) he has been playing poorly. And what on earth are you talking about? Have you watched MaNa play? He's easily one of the top 3 or 4 foreign Protoss players and ever since he actually learned how to play PvZ, he has been dominating everything I've seen him in. Kas on the other hand is a great player, but I've never been horribly impressed by him--when I've seen him do well I believe that he is incredible, but I rarely see him do great or even well in LANs or major events and therefore I'm not sure that he deserves to be on this list. White-Ra (especially with his win in IPL3 and recent buff to Warp Prism) definitely has more right to be on the list than Kas. I'm still a little confused how he didn't make it, but I guess if he were fanboys would just vote him even if he isn't the best player (I know because I would have....) On September 25 2011 07:21 tuho12345 wrote: Lol, couple games in team league and you put Tzain above HuK already? How about HuK get 2 acekills for oGs then? How many chances have we seen him performed in the GSTL? Not in code S = not competing at the highest level of the game. Anyone that could make it to R8+ is consider really good. //Oh and HongUn is the second best Protoss in the world. Just look at the result and ignore Tasstorsis. First off ThorZaIN has demonstrated his ridiculous skill at TvP and TvZ. He might not be in Code S, but he's certainly proven that he has what it takes to compete with the best players in the world. Going through a Code S player, a strong Korean, and then a Strong Code S Korean in that Korean's best match-up only to lose in a close series 3-2 is pretty damn amazing. I don't know how many Terrans in the world could go through that route to the finals and then still manage to take two games off of DRG. So sure, ThorZaIN is not playing in Code S, but he's playing at a level that is similar. His routes to his finals might as well be Code S because the players he's playing are all that caliber. And sure, HuK did great in the GSTL, but didn't ThorZaIN score 11 points instead of the 7 that HuK scored? Hmm, that's kinda awkward... | ||
DeaTH.1914
Canada79 Posts
On September 25 2011 14:08 ForlornHope wrote: you idiotic bastard User was temp banned for this post. I don't understand why your judgement is so harsh. What he stated is personally what I believe to be true, although it is debatable as everyone on that list is capable of posting results and taking games off of each other. I don't want to turn this into a balance thread, but I personally couldn't put a Terran at the top of the list as the race is just simply better than the other two. . | ||
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Rorra
Australia1066 Posts
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