• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:29
CEST 17:29
KST 00:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup9StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)69Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2316
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups? October World Ranking: herO stays #1, ByuN returns
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released Fantasy returning? Bot on ladder [ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror mca64Launcher 2.0
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7985 users

Statement of Millenium on the Stephano situation - Page 29

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 27 28 29 30 31 33 Next All
Brotocol
Profile Joined September 2011
243 Posts
September 21 2011 05:35 GMT
#561
On September 21 2011 13:52 Xouh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 13:47 Brotocol wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:40 Xouh wrote:
Complexity wrote : "For the next 18 days we conducted negotiations. We would make an offer and Millenium would make a counter offer. At no point did we apply pressure other than to make it clear that we were willing to do what it would take to secure his services.'

Contradiction in bold.

Maybe Stephano finally don't want to become a Stream-singer ?



France, 14 posts.

Ulterior motive in bold.


PS: What you bolded is not the slightest bit contradictory.


(Don't care about my posts number ?)

Yes this is contradiction 'cause, if you are harass with "travel around the world, and best payed player " for 18 days, you ARE under pressure.



How is that harassment. Please explain to me how offering him a high salary and the option to participate in foreign tournaments constitutes harassment.

I'm not even being snarky, I literally do not understand your logic.
"The Protoss ball of death is already too strong, so Protoss doesn't really need new units in HotS." - David Kim, Blizzcon 2011
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
September 21 2011 05:37 GMT
#562
On September 21 2011 10:07 Supter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 09:37 Insane wrote:
On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?

They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.

I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.


Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.

If he signed a contract, then yes you say "damn, looks like we lost out on it". Alternatively, you can talk to CoL / Stephano, and see if both of those parties are interested in having Millenium buy out the contract (note that the reason you need to talk to CoL here is that they have a contract, whereas in the case of the negotiation with Millenium, there was no contract to be bought out).
Regardless of how much of a bummer it is, a contract is a contract - the mere fact that it may be bad for your team to lose the player is not a valid reason for breaking a contract.

Childish is doing what you want without regards for prior signed agreements.


According to french law, it's not a valid contract, so, it's like there is no binding contract.

I'm not saying that Millenium did well and that they are right, i'm just saying :

1. Maybe CoL is not as white as they seem to be
2. Millenium head wasnt aware of the CoL/Stephano situation, or at least, they didnt expected CoL to make them sign THAT early.
3. According to french law, there is no binding contract between CoL and Stephano : if the contract is not valid, then it's like it doesnt exist.

I don't say that Millenium are good guys, but i don't think there is good guys and bad guys in this story. There is a stupid guy (Stephano) and two teams which fight for their interests and use what they can use.





So you are not saying millenium did the right thing, just implying coL may have done something wrong, and the reason for that is..??? no reason.. just a hunch uh?
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
September 21 2011 05:40 GMT
#563
On September 21 2011 14:35 Brotocol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 13:52 Xouh wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:47 Brotocol wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:40 Xouh wrote:
Complexity wrote : "For the next 18 days we conducted negotiations. We would make an offer and Millenium would make a counter offer. At no point did we apply pressure other than to make it clear that we were willing to do what it would take to secure his services.'

Contradiction in bold.

Maybe Stephano finally don't want to become a Stream-singer ?



France, 14 posts.

Ulterior motive in bold.


PS: What you bolded is not the slightest bit contradictory.


(Don't care about my posts number ?)

Yes this is contradiction 'cause, if you are harass with "travel around the world, and best payed player " for 18 days, you ARE under pressure.



How is that harassment. Please explain to me how offering him a high salary and the option to participate in foreign tournaments constitutes harassment.

I'm not even being snarky, I literally do not understand your logic.


Must be a french thing to feel harassed when your boss is "threatening" you with doubling your salary for the next year if you sign a new contract... yeah pretty stressing really.
theBizness
Profile Joined July 2011
United States696 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 05:45:23
September 21 2011 05:41 GMT
#564
Oh my, if my boss wanted to wine and dine me for 18 days pressuring me to take a raise... the horror!

I would be sure to say yes and sign the dotted line after enduring 18 days of this cruel and unusual punishment, only to not show up to work on the 19th day and never be heard from again.

ETA: actually it would be more like skipping the interview process when looking for a new job and being given multiple offers over the course of 18 days
Less money for casters, more money for players.
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
September 21 2011 05:43 GMT
#565
On September 21 2011 14:40 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 14:35 Brotocol wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:52 Xouh wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:47 Brotocol wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:40 Xouh wrote:
Complexity wrote : "For the next 18 days we conducted negotiations. We would make an offer and Millenium would make a counter offer. At no point did we apply pressure other than to make it clear that we were willing to do what it would take to secure his services.'

Contradiction in bold.

Maybe Stephano finally don't want to become a Stream-singer ?



France, 14 posts.

Ulterior motive in bold.


PS: What you bolded is not the slightest bit contradictory.


(Don't care about my posts number ?)

Yes this is contradiction 'cause, if you are harass with "travel around the world, and best payed player " for 18 days, you ARE under pressure.



How is that harassment. Please explain to me how offering him a high salary and the option to participate in foreign tournaments constitutes harassment.

I'm not even being snarky, I literally do not understand your logic.


Must be a french thing to feel harassed when your boss is "threatening" you with doubling your salary for the next year if you sign a new contract... yeah pretty stressing really.

Obvious troll is obvious...

He clearly says in his first post that there is a contradiction, "we were throwing offers constantly, but there was no pressure!" Well if there was no pressure why were they throwing offers?

Theres his logic brotocol, pretty simple to comprehend, no? , and your racist comment is quite unneeded.s4life...
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
Gwal
Profile Joined September 2011
Spain20 Posts
September 21 2011 05:46 GMT
#566
On September 21 2011 12:45 docvoc wrote:
Millenium is in a lose lose situation, if they say we were wrong they give up stephano after possibly coercing (i say this as a jab to what they have accused CoL of doing) him to stay and then accusing CoL of coercing stephano. Stephano is really good but he won't last, his play is incredible to watch but its foreign good, not korea good, he is not even close to sen or nestea right now. He could become this good if he joins a bigger team but right now his entire livelihood hangs in the balance, if this doesn't get settled soon he won't be big on the sponsorship list since this will follow him for a while. I hope CoL either sues the living shit out of Millenium, or Millenium somehow releases a statement showing that they aren't violating a presigned contract. If none of the above happen, i hope stephano somehow makes it out with his career intact, ToD did it, now its his turn. Millenium is pretty much dead and this would be the nail in the coffin it seems.

- Mill didn't violate anything.
- CoL can't sue Mill, if anyone can get sued, it's Stephano for breaking his contract with CoL

everyone is guilty here.., that's what it makes so much drama:
CoL acted unprofessionally making Stephano sign without letting him the time ton consult M or contacting M directly.
Mill acted unprofessionally by convincing Stephano to change his mind after he signed a contract with another team.
Stephano acted unprofessionally by taking the decision to sign, and then changing his mind

and regarding the suing... you have no idea at what point the idea of suing seems ridiculous to most of the french here. good luck with getting an US contract getting applied to a french citizen in France.

But appart from that, most reactions here are due to not understanding the cultural difference between US and France :

Judicial system in US is accusatory : the defendant must prove is innocent.
Well in France it's an Inquisitorial system, the defendent is assumed innocent, and the goal is to find the truth, based on the facts.
THAT explain a lots of reactions here, from US and french ppl

"If in doubt, flat out" - Colin McRae
ZestyPickle
Profile Joined July 2011
United States104 Posts
September 21 2011 05:46 GMT
#567
On September 21 2011 14:35 Brotocol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 13:52 Xouh wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:47 Brotocol wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:40 Xouh wrote:
Complexity wrote : "For the next 18 days we conducted negotiations. We would make an offer and Millenium would make a counter offer. At no point did we apply pressure other than to make it clear that we were willing to do what it would take to secure his services.'

Contradiction in bold.

Maybe Stephano finally don't want to become a Stream-singer ?



France, 14 posts.

Ulterior motive in bold.


PS: What you bolded is not the slightest bit contradictory.


(Don't care about my posts number ?)

Yes this is contradiction 'cause, if you are harass with "travel around the world, and best payed player " for 18 days, you ARE under pressure.



How is that harassment. Please explain to me how offering him a high salary and the option to participate in foreign tournaments constitutes harassment.

I'm not even being snarky, I literally do not understand your logic.


The key word is logic here. People are obviously gonna be biased based on where they are from, the biggest issue in my mind is the fact that contracts in SC2 mean shit right now and this could be a huge factor in deciding the future of progamer contracts
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
September 21 2011 05:48 GMT
#568
Why can't things be simple in this world anymore.... i hate all of these complex contracts and obligations and crap like that, just go with the team you want, no questions!

Seriously, even if stephano signed with another team, would he want to join them after this fiasco? i think not
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
ZestyPickle
Profile Joined July 2011
United States104 Posts
September 21 2011 05:49 GMT
#569
On September 21 2011 14:46 Gwal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 12:45 docvoc wrote:
Millenium is in a lose lose situation, if they say we were wrong they give up stephano after possibly coercing (i say this as a jab to what they have accused CoL of doing) him to stay and then accusing CoL of coercing stephano. Stephano is really good but he won't last, his play is incredible to watch but its foreign good, not korea good, he is not even close to sen or nestea right now. He could become this good if he joins a bigger team but right now his entire livelihood hangs in the balance, if this doesn't get settled soon he won't be big on the sponsorship list since this will follow him for a while. I hope CoL either sues the living shit out of Millenium, or Millenium somehow releases a statement showing that they aren't violating a presigned contract. If none of the above happen, i hope stephano somehow makes it out with his career intact, ToD did it, now its his turn. Millenium is pretty much dead and this would be the nail in the coffin it seems.

- Mill didn't violate anything.
- CoL can't sue Mill, if anyone can get sued, it's Stephano for breaking his contract with CoL

everyone is guilty here.., that's what it makes so much drama:
CoL acted unprofessionally making Stephano sign without letting him the time ton consult M or contacting M directly.
Mill acted unprofessionally by convincing Stephano to change his mind after he signed a contract with another team.
Stephano acted unprofessionally by taking the decision to sign, and then changing his mind

and regarding the suing... you have no idea at what point the idea of suing seems ridiculous to most of the french here. good luck with getting an US contract getting applied to a french citizen in France.

But appart from that, most reactions here are due to not understanding the cultural difference between US and France :

Judicial system in US is accusatory : the defendant must prove is innocent.
Well in France it's an Inquisitorial system, the defendent is assumed innocent, and the goal is to find the truth, based on the facts.
THAT explain a lots of reactions here, from US and french ppl



No you are wrong. In the US the burden is on the prosecution to show guilt. The term we like to use "is innocent until proven guilty." Nice try.
Brotocol
Profile Joined September 2011
243 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 05:51:59
September 21 2011 05:51 GMT
#570
On September 21 2011 14:43 Holcan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 14:40 s4life wrote:
On September 21 2011 14:35 Brotocol wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:52 Xouh wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:47 Brotocol wrote:
On September 21 2011 13:40 Xouh wrote:
Complexity wrote : "For the next 18 days we conducted negotiations. We would make an offer and Millenium would make a counter offer. At no point did we apply pressure other than to make it clear that we were willing to do what it would take to secure his services.'

Contradiction in bold.

Maybe Stephano finally don't want to become a Stream-singer ?



France, 14 posts.

Ulterior motive in bold.


PS: What you bolded is not the slightest bit contradictory.


(Don't care about my posts number ?)

Yes this is contradiction 'cause, if you are harass with "travel around the world, and best payed player " for 18 days, you ARE under pressure.



How is that harassment. Please explain to me how offering him a high salary and the option to participate in foreign tournaments constitutes harassment.

I'm not even being snarky, I literally do not understand your logic.


Must be a french thing to feel harassed when your boss is "threatening" you with doubling your salary for the next year if you sign a new contract... yeah pretty stressing really.

Obvious troll is obvious...

He clearly says in his first post that there is a contradiction, "we were throwing offers constantly, but there was no pressure!" Well if there was no pressure why were they throwing offers?

Theres his logic brotocol, pretty simple to comprehend, no? , and your racist comment is quite unneeded.s4life...



* I didn't make a racist comment. But it is quite suspicious that so many new French posters are defending Millenium.

* Offers are 100% voluntary. So no, that is not pressure. Nobody coerced him to sign anything.


PS: I grew up in a French community. But unlike some people, I don't let that compromise my reasoning.
"The Protoss ball of death is already too strong, so Protoss doesn't really need new units in HotS." - David Kim, Blizzcon 2011
Bandino
Profile Joined August 2010
United States342 Posts
September 21 2011 05:52 GMT
#571
On September 21 2011 14:46 Gwal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 12:45 docvoc wrote:
Millenium is in a lose lose situation, if they say we were wrong they give up stephano after possibly coercing (i say this as a jab to what they have accused CoL of doing) him to stay and then accusing CoL of coercing stephano. Stephano is really good but he won't last, his play is incredible to watch but its foreign good, not korea good, he is not even close to sen or nestea right now. He could become this good if he joins a bigger team but right now his entire livelihood hangs in the balance, if this doesn't get settled soon he won't be big on the sponsorship list since this will follow him for a while. I hope CoL either sues the living shit out of Millenium, or Millenium somehow releases a statement showing that they aren't violating a presigned contract. If none of the above happen, i hope stephano somehow makes it out with his career intact, ToD did it, now its his turn. Millenium is pretty much dead and this would be the nail in the coffin it seems.

- Mill didn't violate anything.
- CoL can't sue Mill, if anyone can get sued, it's Stephano for breaking his contract with CoL

everyone is guilty here.., that's what it makes so much drama:
CoL acted unprofessionally making Stephano sign without letting him the time ton consult M or contacting M directly.
Mill acted unprofessionally by convincing Stephano to change his mind after he signed a contract with another team.
Stephano acted unprofessionally by taking the decision to sign, and then changing his mind

and regarding the suing... you have no idea at what point the idea of suing seems ridiculous to most of the french here. good luck with getting an US contract getting applied to a french citizen in France.

But appart from that, most reactions here are due to not understanding the cultural difference between US and France :

Judicial system in US is accusatory : the defendant must prove is innocent.
Well in France it's an Inquisitorial system, the defendent is assumed innocent, and the goal is to find the truth, based on the facts.
THAT explain a lots of reactions here, from US and french ppl




Uh sorry but i believe in the US it is innocent until proven guilty. Nice try tho.
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
September 21 2011 05:59 GMT
#572
--- Nuked ---
Gwal
Profile Joined September 2011
Spain20 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 06:03:50
September 21 2011 06:02 GMT
#573
On September 21 2011 14:52 Bandino wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 14:46 Gwal wrote:
On September 21 2011 12:45 docvoc wrote:
Millenium is in a lose lose situation, if they say we were wrong they give up stephano after possibly coercing (i say this as a jab to what they have accused CoL of doing) him to stay and then accusing CoL of coercing stephano. Stephano is really good but he won't last, his play is incredible to watch but its foreign good, not korea good, he is not even close to sen or nestea right now. He could become this good if he joins a bigger team but right now his entire livelihood hangs in the balance, if this doesn't get settled soon he won't be big on the sponsorship list since this will follow him for a while. I hope CoL either sues the living shit out of Millenium, or Millenium somehow releases a statement showing that they aren't violating a presigned contract. If none of the above happen, i hope stephano somehow makes it out with his career intact, ToD did it, now its his turn. Millenium is pretty much dead and this would be the nail in the coffin it seems.

- Mill didn't violate anything.
- CoL can't sue Mill, if anyone can get sued, it's Stephano for breaking his contract with CoL

everyone is guilty here.., that's what it makes so much drama:
CoL acted unprofessionally making Stephano sign without letting him the time ton consult M or contacting M directly.
Mill acted unprofessionally by convincing Stephano to change his mind after he signed a contract with another team.
Stephano acted unprofessionally by taking the decision to sign, and then changing his mind

and regarding the suing... you have no idea at what point the idea of suing seems ridiculous to most of the french here. good luck with getting an US contract getting applied to a french citizen in France.

But appart from that, most reactions here are due to not understanding the cultural difference between US and France :

Judicial system in US is accusatory : the defendant must prove is innocent.
Well in France it's an Inquisitorial system, the defendent is assumed innocent, and the goal is to find the truth, based on the facts.
THAT explain a lots of reactions here, from US and french ppl




Uh sorry but i believe in the US it is innocent until proven guilty. Nice try tho.


sorry I wasn't very clear.
in US, I believe The prosecution gather evidences to make a case, the defense make a statement, and they battle over facts to finding who wins no ?

I was just trying to explain that it isn't at all like that in France, the only goal is the truth.
"If in doubt, flat out" - Colin McRae
Deathmanbob
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2356 Posts
September 21 2011 06:06 GMT
#574
On September 21 2011 14:46 Gwal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 12:45 docvoc wrote:
Millenium is in a lose lose situation, if they say we were wrong they give up stephano after possibly coercing (i say this as a jab to what they have accused CoL of doing) him to stay and then accusing CoL of coercing stephano. Stephano is really good but he won't last, his play is incredible to watch but its foreign good, not korea good, he is not even close to sen or nestea right now. He could become this good if he joins a bigger team but right now his entire livelihood hangs in the balance, if this doesn't get settled soon he won't be big on the sponsorship list since this will follow him for a while. I hope CoL either sues the living shit out of Millenium, or Millenium somehow releases a statement showing that they aren't violating a presigned contract. If none of the above happen, i hope stephano somehow makes it out with his career intact, ToD did it, now its his turn. Millenium is pretty much dead and this would be the nail in the coffin it seems.

- Mill didn't violate anything.
- CoL can't sue Mill, if anyone can get sued, it's Stephano for breaking his contract with CoL

everyone is guilty here.., that's what it makes so much drama:
CoL acted unprofessionally making Stephano sign without letting him the time ton consult M or contacting M directly.
Mill acted unprofessionally by convincing Stephano to change his mind after he signed a contract with another team.
Stephano acted unprofessionally by taking the decision to sign, and then changing his mind

and regarding the suing... you have no idea at what point the idea of suing seems ridiculous to most of the french here. good luck with getting an US contract getting applied to a french citizen in France.

But appart from that, most reactions here are due to not understanding the cultural difference between US and France :

Judicial system in US is accusatory : the defendant must prove is innocent.
Well in France it's an Inquisitorial system, the defendent is assumed innocent, and the goal is to find the truth, based on the facts.
THAT explain a lots of reactions here, from US and french ppl





UHHHHH im not going to get into a lot of things here but the US system the defendant does NOT need to prove he/she is innocent

Innocent until proven guilty is a big line for the US

Probably just a misunderstanding but you got our system backward
No Artosis, you are robin
ZestyPickle
Profile Joined July 2011
United States104 Posts
September 21 2011 06:08 GMT
#575
On September 21 2011 15:02 Gwal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 14:52 Bandino wrote:
On September 21 2011 14:46 Gwal wrote:
On September 21 2011 12:45 docvoc wrote:
Millenium is in a lose lose situation, if they say we were wrong they give up stephano after possibly coercing (i say this as a jab to what they have accused CoL of doing) him to stay and then accusing CoL of coercing stephano. Stephano is really good but he won't last, his play is incredible to watch but its foreign good, not korea good, he is not even close to sen or nestea right now. He could become this good if he joins a bigger team but right now his entire livelihood hangs in the balance, if this doesn't get settled soon he won't be big on the sponsorship list since this will follow him for a while. I hope CoL either sues the living shit out of Millenium, or Millenium somehow releases a statement showing that they aren't violating a presigned contract. If none of the above happen, i hope stephano somehow makes it out with his career intact, ToD did it, now its his turn. Millenium is pretty much dead and this would be the nail in the coffin it seems.

- Mill didn't violate anything.
- CoL can't sue Mill, if anyone can get sued, it's Stephano for breaking his contract with CoL

everyone is guilty here.., that's what it makes so much drama:
CoL acted unprofessionally making Stephano sign without letting him the time ton consult M or contacting M directly.
Mill acted unprofessionally by convincing Stephano to change his mind after he signed a contract with another team.
Stephano acted unprofessionally by taking the decision to sign, and then changing his mind

and regarding the suing... you have no idea at what point the idea of suing seems ridiculous to most of the french here. good luck with getting an US contract getting applied to a french citizen in France.

But appart from that, most reactions here are due to not understanding the cultural difference between US and France :

Judicial system in US is accusatory : the defendant must prove is innocent.
Well in France it's an Inquisitorial system, the defendent is assumed innocent, and the goal is to find the truth, based on the facts.
THAT explain a lots of reactions here, from US and french ppl




Uh sorry but i believe in the US it is innocent until proven guilty. Nice try tho.


sorry I wasn't very clear.
in US, I believe The prosecution gather evidences to make a case, the defense make a statement, and they battle over facts to finding who wins no ?

I was just trying to explain that it isn't at all like that in France, the only goal is the truth.


I have no clue what you're trying to say, that US court's goal is not to find the truth? Fact finding is done regardless, we just do it differently, but with the same end result. So no, don't point to our legal system as our cultural difference, our cultural difference would be us taking our contracts much more seriously than France.
Deathmanbob
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2356 Posts
September 21 2011 06:09 GMT
#576
On September 21 2011 15:02 Gwal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 14:52 Bandino wrote:
On September 21 2011 14:46 Gwal wrote:
On September 21 2011 12:45 docvoc wrote:
Millenium is in a lose lose situation, if they say we were wrong they give up stephano after possibly coercing (i say this as a jab to what they have accused CoL of doing) him to stay and then accusing CoL of coercing stephano. Stephano is really good but he won't last, his play is incredible to watch but its foreign good, not korea good, he is not even close to sen or nestea right now. He could become this good if he joins a bigger team but right now his entire livelihood hangs in the balance, if this doesn't get settled soon he won't be big on the sponsorship list since this will follow him for a while. I hope CoL either sues the living shit out of Millenium, or Millenium somehow releases a statement showing that they aren't violating a presigned contract. If none of the above happen, i hope stephano somehow makes it out with his career intact, ToD did it, now its his turn. Millenium is pretty much dead and this would be the nail in the coffin it seems.

- Mill didn't violate anything.
- CoL can't sue Mill, if anyone can get sued, it's Stephano for breaking his contract with CoL

everyone is guilty here.., that's what it makes so much drama:
CoL acted unprofessionally making Stephano sign without letting him the time ton consult M or contacting M directly.
Mill acted unprofessionally by convincing Stephano to change his mind after he signed a contract with another team.
Stephano acted unprofessionally by taking the decision to sign, and then changing his mind

and regarding the suing... you have no idea at what point the idea of suing seems ridiculous to most of the french here. good luck with getting an US contract getting applied to a french citizen in France.

But appart from that, most reactions here are due to not understanding the cultural difference between US and France :

Judicial system in US is accusatory : the defendant must prove is innocent.
Well in France it's an Inquisitorial system, the defendent is assumed innocent, and the goal is to find the truth, based on the facts.
THAT explain a lots of reactions here, from US and french ppl




Uh sorry but i believe in the US it is innocent until proven guilty. Nice try tho.


sorry I wasn't very clear.
in US, I believe The prosecution gather evidences to make a case, the defense make a statement, and they battle over facts to finding who wins no ?

I was just trying to explain that it isn't at all like that in France, the only goal is the truth.



Almost right, they both gather evidence to find the truth of the matter. The US system looks to find the truth of the situation, not who ever gathers more facts wins its what the truth is is supposed to win

No Artosis, you are robin
Gwal
Profile Joined September 2011
Spain20 Posts
September 21 2011 06:21 GMT
#577
I think you don't understand what I am clumsily trying to say

in US, (again, correct me If I'm wrong!) I believe the defense can force prosecution to drop a case, by blaming the victim. It happens recently in the Trial of DSK.
that's what I mean by "not finding the truth".
"If in doubt, flat out" - Colin McRae
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
September 21 2011 06:31 GMT
#578
On September 21 2011 15:08 ZestyPickle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2011 15:02 Gwal wrote:
On September 21 2011 14:52 Bandino wrote:
On September 21 2011 14:46 Gwal wrote:
On September 21 2011 12:45 docvoc wrote:
Millenium is in a lose lose situation, if they say we were wrong they give up stephano after possibly coercing (i say this as a jab to what they have accused CoL of doing) him to stay and then accusing CoL of coercing stephano. Stephano is really good but he won't last, his play is incredible to watch but its foreign good, not korea good, he is not even close to sen or nestea right now. He could become this good if he joins a bigger team but right now his entire livelihood hangs in the balance, if this doesn't get settled soon he won't be big on the sponsorship list since this will follow him for a while. I hope CoL either sues the living shit out of Millenium, or Millenium somehow releases a statement showing that they aren't violating a presigned contract. If none of the above happen, i hope stephano somehow makes it out with his career intact, ToD did it, now its his turn. Millenium is pretty much dead and this would be the nail in the coffin it seems.

- Mill didn't violate anything.
- CoL can't sue Mill, if anyone can get sued, it's Stephano for breaking his contract with CoL

everyone is guilty here.., that's what it makes so much drama:
CoL acted unprofessionally making Stephano sign without letting him the time ton consult M or contacting M directly.
Mill acted unprofessionally by convincing Stephano to change his mind after he signed a contract with another team.
Stephano acted unprofessionally by taking the decision to sign, and then changing his mind

and regarding the suing... you have no idea at what point the idea of suing seems ridiculous to most of the french here. good luck with getting an US contract getting applied to a french citizen in France.

But appart from that, most reactions here are due to not understanding the cultural difference between US and France :

Judicial system in US is accusatory : the defendant must prove is innocent.
Well in France it's an Inquisitorial system, the defendent is assumed innocent, and the goal is to find the truth, based on the facts.
THAT explain a lots of reactions here, from US and french ppl




Uh sorry but i believe in the US it is innocent until proven guilty. Nice try tho.


sorry I wasn't very clear.
in US, I believe The prosecution gather evidences to make a case, the defense make a statement, and they battle over facts to finding who wins no ?

I was just trying to explain that it isn't at all like that in France, the only goal is the truth.


I have no clue what you're trying to say, that US court's goal is not to find the truth? Fact finding is done regardless, we just do it differently, but with the same end result. So no, don't point to our legal system as our cultural difference, our cultural difference would be us taking our contracts much more seriously than France.

Do you actually have any reason to state that contracts are taken more seriously in US than in France ? If you base it on this mess, then that is hardly any argument since people in this thread know basically nothing about the situation in question and never saw the contract.
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
September 21 2011 06:32 GMT
#579
--- Nuked ---
Deathmanbob
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2356 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-21 06:37:25
September 21 2011 06:34 GMT
#580
On September 21 2011 15:21 Gwal wrote:
I think you don't understand what I am clumsily trying to say

in US, (again, correct me If I'm wrong!) I believe the defense can force prosecution to drop a case, by blaming the victim. It happens recently in the Trial of DSK.
that's what I mean by "not finding the truth".




OHHHH you just dont have all the facts then, little misunderstanding.

The defense can blame the victim, its true, its a tactic to discredit their story but it really only works when the victim is lying.

In the case of DSK that women was lying and was never even touched by him, the defense found HUGE holes in her story and then attacked those holes (i guess you would call this blaming the victim? ) all the defense did was point out that she lied and if she lied once she can lie again.

Back on point sure the defense might "blame the victim" but most of the time the defense is just pointing out holes in the persons story

Edit: were kind of getting off point i think, to comment on the OP it seems MIL just added nothing to the conversation besides saying, dont worry we are okay we didnt do anything wrong but dont ask for details
No Artosis, you are robin
Prev 1 27 28 29 30 31 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Weekly
20:00
WardiTV Mondays #107
IntoTheiNu 1361
WardiTV1026
OGKoka 269
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 269
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5107
Bisu 1984
Shuttle 956
Larva 756
Stork 500
EffOrt 499
BeSt 484
Horang2 357
actioN 299
Mini 264
[ Show more ]
Rush 241
Light 146
Mind 122
hero 103
910 89
Zeus 88
Yoon 86
Mong 66
Snow 66
Shinee 55
Barracks 49
sorry 48
Sea.KH 48
JYJ 38
Bale 29
Killer 28
ToSsGirL 28
Sexy 25
Aegong 22
HiyA 19
yabsab 17
Terrorterran 16
zelot 16
soO 13
scan(afreeca) 12
Free 10
Sacsri 8
Dota 2
Gorgc5619
qojqva2670
Dendi1119
febbydoto37
Counter-Strike
fl0m3509
Fnx 675
Heroes of the Storm
Lowko476
Other Games
singsing2523
hiko937
B2W.Neo750
TKL 696
Livibee344
XBOCT265
ceh9260
Hui .225
Liquid`VortiX216
XaKoH 147
Chillindude1
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream21
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 25
• mYiSmile117
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 28
• iopq 13
• FirePhoenix2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3248
• Jankos2088
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
31m
Replay Cast
7h 31m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 31m
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
19h 31m
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
1d 8h
The PondCast
2 days
INu's Battles
2 days
Percival vs TBD
TBD vs herO
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Patches Events
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.