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On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation. Do you really think that Stephano leaving M wasnt huge enough to make the whole team speak about it ?
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them a few hours later. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when he woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
If stephano chooses not to tell his team he plans on signing with coL, he's dumb, but he has no obligation to let them know his plans, nor does coL have an obligation to let mill know they want to sign stephano.
coL released a statement giving their side of the story. I've yet to see mill give their account, and they've had plenty of time. Seems more than a little shady to me.
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On September 21 2011 08:25 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation.
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when i woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
Do you really think that Stephano leaving M Or they could have appreciated Stephano for the player he is, and given him a better deal than Col would anytime in the last 18 days that they were negotiating. They could have got him to sign a contract with the team hes been with his whole career before they had to break a contract, and pretend that there was nothing wrong with it. Saying that "oh we woke up in the morning to him being signed, now we have to get him back" isn't a valid thing at all. If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision, not some kind of underhanded tactic by Complexity.
I can't argue when you are saying things like this. When a team make offers to your player, each team don't do ONE offer then wait to see if it's the better. It's an offer, then another, and so on. Llewellys go to bed thinking "It's ok, we still have time". During the night, CoL say to Stephano " Hey, i make you that offer ; what about signing now ?"
you are Llewellys, do you say to your boss Cedrix "We can't do shit right now, it's over. Sorry" ? Or do you fight ?
If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision
And the french law is ok with Stephano signing with Millenium because of, according to french law, loopholes that nullifies the CoL contract. So what ?
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night.
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Too little too late if you ask me.
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On September 21 2011 06:47 Capook wrote:
lol, this is hilarious. On what planet is releasing a totally vague statement with absolutely no content supposed to help your cause? It now looks even worse for Millennium. Right or wrong aside, what a dumb move from a management point of view...
Actually, statements like this seem to happen a lot. The publicity guys just make the statements as vague as they can while making it look like they are working towards a solution in order to mitigate the damage to their reputation. It also buys them more time to get their shit together before publicizing the official happenings.
That being said, they could have released a statement like this much earlier. Waiting until now just reduces its affected attempt.
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what i see from this situation is that stephano fucked up pretty badly.
i feel bad for complexity.
it seems in SC2 contracts mean shit and that's pretty bad for the whole scene.
millenium is not professional enough to accept that their player decided to sign the paper.
i was becoming a supporter of stephano more and more but as far as i am concerned he lost a fan here.
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On September 21 2011 08:39 Supter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 08:25 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation.
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when i woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
Do you really think that Stephano leaving M Or they could have appreciated Stephano for the player he is, and given him a better deal than Col would anytime in the last 18 days that they were negotiating. They could have got him to sign a contract with the team hes been with his whole career before they had to break a contract, and pretend that there was nothing wrong with it. Saying that "oh we woke up in the morning to him being signed, now we have to get him back" isn't a valid thing at all. If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision, not some kind of underhanded tactic by Complexity. I can't argue when you are saying things like this. When a team make offers to your player, each team don't do ONE offer then wait to see if it's the better. It's an offer, then another, and so on. Llewellys go to bed thinking "It's ok, we still have time". During the night, CoL say to Stephano " Hey, i make you that offer ; what about signing now ?" you are Llewellys, do you say to your boss Cedrix "We can't do shit right now, it's over. Sorry" ? Or do you fight ? And the french law is ok with Stephano signing with Millenium because of, according to french law, loopholes that nullifies the CoL contract. So what ? Show nested quote +
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night.
Why would stephano sign with col if he was expecting that mil could make another offer.... he would have just kept the bidding war going. Common sense says that mil probably gave him a one last final offer and complexity beat, then stephano signed.
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i dont understand. there is nothing in this statement. we heard the apology yesterday already, you put something up on your website. what we want now is an explanation. but this is not it.
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On September 21 2011 08:39 Supter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 08:25 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation.
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when i woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
Do you really think that Stephano leaving M Or they could have appreciated Stephano for the player he is, and given him a better deal than Col would anytime in the last 18 days that they were negotiating. They could have got him to sign a contract with the team hes been with his whole career before they had to break a contract, and pretend that there was nothing wrong with it. Saying that "oh we woke up in the morning to him being signed, now we have to get him back" isn't a valid thing at all. If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision, not some kind of underhanded tactic by Complexity. I can't argue when you are saying things like this. When a team make offers to your player, each team don't do ONE offer then wait to see if it's the better. It's an offer, then another, and so on. Llewellys go to bed thinking "It's ok, we still have time". During the night, CoL say to Stephano " Hey, i make you that offer ; what about signing now ?" you are Llewellys, do you say to your boss Cedrix "We can't do shit right now, it's over. Sorry" ? Or do you fight ? And the french law is ok with Stephano signing with Millenium because of, according to french law, loopholes that nullifies the CoL contract. So what ? Show nested quote +
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night.
The only timeline we have is from Col. If you want to disbelieve them that's up to you. But until M or Stephano refute it, then this is the working assumpion:
"For the next 18 days we conducted negotiations. We would make an offer and Millenium would make a counter offer. At no point did we apply pressure other than to make it clear that we were willing to do what it would take to secure his services."
This wasn't a middle of the night swoop and sign. All sides had several chances to make an offer that couldn't be refused. Stephano may have lacked the patience to see the process through (like sleeping on it and deciding it on a clear head), but M didn't just know that Col made an offer, but M countered their offer several times.
For M to lose an 18 day bidding war then claim that they were blindsided isn't reasonable by any means.
Now, if they want to refute this timeline then that's a different story. But there's no reason to believe Col is lying.
As for the 'loophole', I don't think it's that cut and dry, which is why lawyers may get involved here.
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On September 21 2011 08:39 Supter wrote:Show nested quote +
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night.
I'm saying your speculation doesn't make sense. Its in stephano's best interest to make the bidding as transparent as possible. Say complexity says that they'll sign him on the spot for $30k. You'd be a total idiot to say yes. Instead, if you were stephano, you would go back to mill and say that you've gotten a $30k offer from coL. If they can beat that, you've just made money. Bring that deal back to complexity and repeat. So, there's no way in hell stephano went behind mill's back, as its not in his best interest.
Now, if that's exactly what happened, why hasn't mill stated this? Because they know its blatantly false, and everyone will know that their story makes no sense. Give them a little more time and hopefully they can come up with a much better lie. Otherwise their reputation as an esports organization is toast (if it isn't already).
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On September 21 2011 08:39 Supter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 08:25 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation.
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when i woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
Do you really think that Stephano leaving M Or they could have appreciated Stephano for the player he is, and given him a better deal than Col would anytime in the last 18 days that they were negotiating. They could have got him to sign a contract with the team hes been with his whole career before they had to break a contract, and pretend that there was nothing wrong with it. Saying that "oh we woke up in the morning to him being signed, now we have to get him back" isn't a valid thing at all. If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision, not some kind of underhanded tactic by Complexity. I can't argue when you are saying things like this. When a team make offers to your player, each team don't do ONE offer then wait to see if it's the better. It's an offer, then another, and so on. Llewellys go to bed thinking "It's ok, we still have time". During the night, CoL say to Stephano " Hey, i make you that offer ; what about signing now ?" you are Llewellys, do you say to your boss Cedrix "We can't do shit right now, it's over. Sorry" ? Or do you fight ? And the french law is ok with Stephano signing with Millenium because of, according to french law, loopholes that nullifies the CoL contract. So what ? Show nested quote +
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night.
There is no evidence that there was a single offer by coL that Mill just never responded to fast enough. In fact, based on what we know, there were multiple offers on both sides countering each other. Granted, this is primarily based on statements by coL, so there is potentiall bias, but Mill has never said anything to the contrary other than being pissed that Stephano left and blaming him for being confused and mistaken.
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On September 21 2011 08:46 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 08:39 Supter wrote:On September 21 2011 08:25 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation.
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when i woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
Do you really think that Stephano leaving M Or they could have appreciated Stephano for the player he is, and given him a better deal than Col would anytime in the last 18 days that they were negotiating. They could have got him to sign a contract with the team hes been with his whole career before they had to break a contract, and pretend that there was nothing wrong with it. Saying that "oh we woke up in the morning to him being signed, now we have to get him back" isn't a valid thing at all. If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision, not some kind of underhanded tactic by Complexity. I can't argue when you are saying things like this. When a team make offers to your player, each team don't do ONE offer then wait to see if it's the better. It's an offer, then another, and so on. Llewellys go to bed thinking "It's ok, we still have time". During the night, CoL say to Stephano " Hey, i make you that offer ; what about signing now ?" you are Llewellys, do you say to your boss Cedrix "We can't do shit right now, it's over. Sorry" ? Or do you fight ? If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision And the french law is ok with Stephano signing with Millenium because of, according to french law, loopholes that nullifies the CoL contract. So what ?
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night. Why would stephano sign with col if he was expecting that mil could make another offer.... he would have just kept the bidding war going. Common sense says that mil probably gave him a one last final offer and complexity beat, then stephano signed.
If they knew that the bidding war was lost, why did the make another offer later ?
All i said was that a high member of Millenium wasnt aware of the situation, none of their sc2 redactor was, and a LoL redactor had to make the news, learning it from Team Liquid.
Millenium didnt knew that stephano was THAT CLOSE to leave. Of course they knew that he received offers, but they absolutely didnt know that CoL wanted to sign him this early.
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My favorite part is where they call Jason Lakes word "internet gossip".
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On September 21 2011 08:51 Supter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 08:46 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:39 Supter wrote:On September 21 2011 08:25 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation.
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when i woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
Do you really think that Stephano leaving M Or they could have appreciated Stephano for the player he is, and given him a better deal than Col would anytime in the last 18 days that they were negotiating. They could have got him to sign a contract with the team hes been with his whole career before they had to break a contract, and pretend that there was nothing wrong with it. Saying that "oh we woke up in the morning to him being signed, now we have to get him back" isn't a valid thing at all. If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision, not some kind of underhanded tactic by Complexity. I can't argue when you are saying things like this. When a team make offers to your player, each team don't do ONE offer then wait to see if it's the better. It's an offer, then another, and so on. Llewellys go to bed thinking "It's ok, we still have time". During the night, CoL say to Stephano " Hey, i make you that offer ; what about signing now ?" you are Llewellys, do you say to your boss Cedrix "We can't do shit right now, it's over. Sorry" ? Or do you fight ? If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision And the french law is ok with Stephano signing with Millenium because of, according to french law, loopholes that nullifies the CoL contract. So what ?
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night. Why would stephano sign with col if he was expecting that mil could make another offer.... he would have just kept the bidding war going. Common sense says that mil probably gave him a one last final offer and complexity beat, then stephano signed. If they knew that the bidding war was lost, why did the make another offer later ? All i said was that a high member of Millenium wasnt aware of the situation, none of their sc2 redactor was, and a LoL redactor had to make the news, learning it from Team Liquid. Millenium didnt knew that stephano was THAT CLOSE to leave. Of course they knew that he received offers, but they absolutely didnt know that CoL wanted to sign him this early.
So Mill tried to hardball Stephano and lost. That's how these things work.
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All I know is that Millenium's reputation as a team went down the toilet and it will be really hard for them to turn around like if nothing happened.. as for Stephano, he can say goodbye to the lucrative side of his SC2 career although I think he never cared about it in the first place.. the victim in all this is coL.. this failed transaction cost them dearly in terms of image and lost opportunity.. now they have to start from scratch again and build another business plan.
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Yeah, sure. Millenium wanted to loose their best players, or at least didnt try to keep him. Sound logic to me.
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Is anyone else at all interested in seeing the average # of viewers stephano would get on his stream pre-dramaclusterfuck and post-dramaclusterfuck? Cause for all you people saying his career and reputation are being tarnished, I would have a hard time believing that he's actually pulling LESS viewers when he streams now than before this whole situation.
edit: also i realize someones career isn't just about his viewers.
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On September 21 2011 08:51 Supter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 08:46 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:39 Supter wrote:On September 21 2011 08:25 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation.
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when i woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
Do you really think that Stephano leaving M Or they could have appreciated Stephano for the player he is, and given him a better deal than Col would anytime in the last 18 days that they were negotiating. They could have got him to sign a contract with the team hes been with his whole career before they had to break a contract, and pretend that there was nothing wrong with it. Saying that "oh we woke up in the morning to him being signed, now we have to get him back" isn't a valid thing at all. If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision, not some kind of underhanded tactic by Complexity. I can't argue when you are saying things like this. When a team make offers to your player, each team don't do ONE offer then wait to see if it's the better. It's an offer, then another, and so on. Llewellys go to bed thinking "It's ok, we still have time". During the night, CoL say to Stephano " Hey, i make you that offer ; what about signing now ?" you are Llewellys, do you say to your boss Cedrix "We can't do shit right now, it's over. Sorry" ? Or do you fight ? If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision And the french law is ok with Stephano signing with Millenium because of, according to french law, loopholes that nullifies the CoL contract. So what ?
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night. Why would stephano sign with col if he was expecting that mil could make another offer.... he would have just kept the bidding war going. Common sense says that mil probably gave him a one last final offer and complexity beat, then stephano signed. If they knew that the bidding war was lost, why did the make another offer later ? All i said was that a high member of Millenium wasnt aware of the situation, none of their sc2 redactor was, and a LoL redactor had to make the news, learning it from Team Liquid. Millenium didnt knew that stephano was THAT CLOSE to leave. Of course they knew that he received offers, but they absolutely didnt know that CoL wanted to sign him this early.
Do you actually believe the things you're saying? Of course they knew col wanted to sign him this early.... they tried to sign him for almost 3 weeks prior to this. And we don't know that mil offered him a better deal... what we do know is that they convinced stephano that the contract he signed with col was "not a real contract." We don't know any terms of the mil contract, it could be much less than what col was offering.
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On September 21 2011 09:08 PHILtheTANK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 08:51 Supter wrote:On September 21 2011 08:46 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:39 Supter wrote:On September 21 2011 08:25 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation.
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when i woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
Do you really think that Stephano leaving M Or they could have appreciated Stephano for the player he is, and given him a better deal than Col would anytime in the last 18 days that they were negotiating. They could have got him to sign a contract with the team hes been with his whole career before they had to break a contract, and pretend that there was nothing wrong with it. Saying that "oh we woke up in the morning to him being signed, now we have to get him back" isn't a valid thing at all. If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision, not some kind of underhanded tactic by Complexity. I can't argue when you are saying things like this. When a team make offers to your player, each team don't do ONE offer then wait to see if it's the better. It's an offer, then another, and so on. Llewellys go to bed thinking "It's ok, we still have time". During the night, CoL say to Stephano " Hey, i make you that offer ; what about signing now ?" you are Llewellys, do you say to your boss Cedrix "We can't do shit right now, it's over. Sorry" ? Or do you fight ? If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision And the french law is ok with Stephano signing with Millenium because of, according to french law, loopholes that nullifies the CoL contract. So what ?
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night. Why would stephano sign with col if he was expecting that mil could make another offer.... he would have just kept the bidding war going. Common sense says that mil probably gave him a one last final offer and complexity beat, then stephano signed. If they knew that the bidding war was lost, why did the make another offer later ? All i said was that a high member of Millenium wasnt aware of the situation, none of their sc2 redactor was, and a LoL redactor had to make the news, learning it from Team Liquid. Millenium didnt knew that stephano was THAT CLOSE to leave. Of course they knew that he received offers, but they absolutely didnt know that CoL wanted to sign him this early. Do you actually believe the things you're saying? Of course they knew col wanted to sign him this early.... they tried to sign him for almost 3 weeks prior to this. And we don't know that mil offered him a better deal... what we do know is that they convinced stephano that the contract he signed with col was "not a real contract." We don't know any terms of the mil contract, it could be much less than what col was offering.
Based on the online interview the manager did on stream, apparently Stephano's new contract with Mill is exactly the same as his old one, with no salary increase.
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United States4991 Posts
On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
If he signed a contract, then yes you say "damn, looks like we lost out on it". Alternatively, you can talk to CoL / Stephano, and see if both of those parties are interested in having Millenium buy out the contract (note that the reason you need to talk to CoL here is that they have a contract, whereas in the case of the negotiation with Millenium, there was no contract to be bought out).
Regardless of how much of a bummer it is, a contract is a contract - the mere fact that it may be bad for your team to lose the player is not a valid reason for breaking a contract.
Childish is doing what you want without regards for prior signed agreements.
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On September 21 2011 08:51 Supter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 08:46 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:39 Supter wrote:On September 21 2011 08:25 PHILtheTANK wrote:On September 21 2011 08:18 Supter wrote:
My 2 cents ; sorry for my poor english but i think it's important to say that :
I was with Zephimir monday night (well, tuesday at 5 am) on skype. For those who don't know, Zephimir is a LoL redactor from team Millenium, and one of the most important person in this team.
Ofc, he talks a lot with Cedrix and Llewellys, because they are at the head of Millenium.
We learnt that Stephano was leaving Millenium when we browse TL. Nobody talk about it on the Millenium chan, whereas they talk about ToD leaving, Millenium acquiering the aAa.loL team and so on. But he didnt know about Stephano leaving, which was a waaaaay more important news than those two. He had to post about Stephano leaving at 5 am, and no sc2 redactor was aware of the situation.
What i am saying, and i don't want to defend Millenium, Stephano or Complexity, is that Millenium sure was aware about CoL views on Stephano, but didnt know that he was going to sign with them. Llewellys also said that he learnt about it when i woke up.
So, what were they suppose to do ?
Think "well, when i was sleeping, they sign my best player, but i can't try to get him back, it's bad. I'll let him leave. Too bad for me." or try to get him back ?
They chose the second option. You guys are saying "it's bad for esport, and it's bad for esport reputation". But if they had lost their best player, it would have been horrible for them.
You follow a team site for their players. Stephano is really popular in France, and Millenium is like the first esport site in France, french people don't mind as much about Lalush, Tarson, DieStar and even Adel as they do for Stephano. It would have been a HUGE lost for them. Moreover all their project (including the team one) would have been destroy.
I don't say that Millenium did good, but if you think that CoL is the good guy and Millenium is the bad guy, you are mistaken. IMO, Millenium and CoL are just doing what they have to do for their team (ie. signing a contract with a player they want and keep the player they have), and Stephano did a huge mistake.
Seriously, will you HATE Millenium because of this ? It's so childish.
Do you really think that Stephano leaving M Or they could have appreciated Stephano for the player he is, and given him a better deal than Col would anytime in the last 18 days that they were negotiating. They could have got him to sign a contract with the team hes been with his whole career before they had to break a contract, and pretend that there was nothing wrong with it. Saying that "oh we woke up in the morning to him being signed, now we have to get him back" isn't a valid thing at all. If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision, not some kind of underhanded tactic by Complexity. I can't argue when you are saying things like this. When a team make offers to your player, each team don't do ONE offer then wait to see if it's the better. It's an offer, then another, and so on. Llewellys go to bed thinking "It's ok, we still have time". During the night, CoL say to Stephano " Hey, i make you that offer ; what about signing now ?" you are Llewellys, do you say to your boss Cedrix "We can't do shit right now, it's over. Sorry" ? Or do you fight ? If stephano decided to sign at 3 AM thats his decision And the french law is ok with Stephano signing with Millenium because of, according to french law, loopholes that nullifies the CoL contract. So what ?
I find it hard to believe stephano wouldn't tell management. By telling management he can start a bidding war, increasing his salary with the highest bidder. The story coL makes a lot more sense.
They of course knew that Col made an offer, but they didnt knew that he was going to sign monday night. Why would stephano sign with col if he was expecting that mil could make another offer.... he would have just kept the bidding war going. Common sense says that mil probably gave him a one last final offer and complexity beat, then stephano signed. If they knew that the bidding war was lost, why did the make another offer later ? All i said was that a high member of Millenium wasnt aware of the situation, none of their sc2 redactor was, and a LoL redactor had to make the news, learning it from Team Liquid. Millenium didnt knew that stephano was THAT CLOSE to leave. Of course they knew that he received offers, but they absolutely didnt know that CoL wanted to sign him this early.
Then shame on Mill for not putting their best offer forward and signing him like 18 days ago.
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EPT
