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On September 19 2011 19:45 RenSC2 wrote:
Sadly, the guys at the top of Protoss play don't seem like the best innovators, just great executors. That would include guys like Huk... great micro/macro, but innovator? No way.
It seems like the real innovators aren't necessarily the greatest macro/micro players. To save protoss, I'd look more to guys like White-Ra and Kiwikaki. Of course, it's unlikely that either of them will win a tournament with legit Koreans in it, but the better executors should look to those two to see how they handle PvT. Then they can copy it and execute it better for the wins.
As for Hero, when people say "he held off X with only Y", that's not innovation. That's good control. Top protoss players already have that. However, he does do a few interesting things, which makes me believe that maybe he's an innovator... still a little unsure on him. I'm not familiar enough with Sage, JYP, or Sase to comment on them, but no way is Nani an innovator... just another great executor.
All this talk about protoss players being great executors made me chuckle a bit.
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Hongunprime is the best protoss in the world. He has a very solid style of play, and very consistent results in the GSL, despite his wrists problems.
Genius, puzzle, Huk; they are all three decent but definately not strong enough to get to the finals of a GSL. TSL_JYP showed interesting PvZ, but failed hard in the past at other matchups.
Sase, Naniwa, Hero; you love for TL and the foreign community blinds you. They barely stand their own in code A.
Yet there are quite some code A protoss which could make code S this season hopefully. It is so saddening to see only 5/32 toss in code S  .
I am not so surprised by MC's result: He hasn't performed well in ages.
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I wonder how many protoss there will be in next season GSL code S. The number is definetly not getting higher. All the protoss players got very hard group except Huk.
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Sase, Naniwa, Hero; you love for TL and the foreign community blinds you. They barely stand their own in code A.
haven't even played yet in code a? how can you know how they stand
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On September 19 2011 20:36 eidol wrote:Show nested quote +
Sase, Naniwa, Hero; you love for TL and the foreign community blinds you. They barely stand their own in code A.
haven't even played yet in code a? how can you know how they stand
They have played last season and got knocked out.
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On September 19 2011 20:34 Anomandaris wrote:
Sase, Naniwa, Hero; you love for TL and the foreign community blinds you. They barely stand their own in code A.
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Hero has played well in GSTL so can do very well in Code A, Sase hasnt played in Code A yet, Nani played in last Code A, the DAY AFTER arriving in korea so no time to practice on korean server etc, so yeh judge him on this CODE A not the last one.
EDIT, Could be wrong on Sase but I know if anything he wasnt ih korea for too long eithier. A week mamximun.
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HOW the HELL can mc be in code B. I am so depressed
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On September 19 2011 19:56 bittman wrote:
No HongUn? Everyone always forgets about him, or just dismisses him because when he loses...well he loses. But he constantly beats players in "surprise". I doubt he'll ever revolutionise the race, but he's not going away any time soon haha.
Pretty sure he'll be going away quite soon.
It's not about getting the wins - the only one who benefits from HongUn's results is HongUn, that's not really the subject here at all. He's not displaying any remarkable personal skill or potential, he's not evolving Protoss play, he doesn't really bring much to the table at all, so it's really no surprise why he's overlooked.
He's like a less successful version of Polt.
Then again, MC's play was never really mind blowing either. I had a feeling that something like this would happen to him sooner or later.
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On September 19 2011 20:39 Tommylew wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 20:34 Anomandaris wrote:
Sase, Naniwa, Hero; you love for TL and the foreign community blinds you. They barely stand their own in code A.
. Hero has played well in GSTL so can do very well in Code A, Sase hasnt played in Code A yet, Nani played in last Code A, the DAY AFTER arriving in korea so no time to practice on korean server etc, so yeh judge him on this CODE A not the last one. EDIT, Could be wrong on Sase but I know if anything he wasnt ih korea for too long eithier. A week mamximun.
Sase did played code A last season.
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On September 19 2011 20:41 Anomandaris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 20:39 Tommylew wrote:On September 19 2011 20:34 Anomandaris wrote:
Sase, Naniwa, Hero; you love for TL and the foreign community blinds you. They barely stand their own in code A.
. Hero has played well in GSTL so can do very well in Code A, Sase hasnt played in Code A yet, Nani played in last Code A, the DAY AFTER arriving in korea so no time to practice on korean server etc, so yeh judge him on this CODE A not the last one. EDIT, Could be wrong on Sase but I know if anything he wasnt ih korea for too long eithier. A week mamximun. Sase did played code A last season.
hence why I edited at the bottom of my post and said he was in korea a week maximum before hae played his games.
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oh shit you just lighting up the bulb of protoss!!!!
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While I can respect your optimism, I can't really agree with this post at all. Nothing matters until one of these up and comers actually wins a Korean tournament. Who cares if some build works against lesser opponents when the true test is if it works against somebody like IMMvp or IMNestea.
Too many people also don't realize that the Chargelot/Prism/Phoenix strategy that Sage uses is from oGsMC. Sage himself even admitted in an interview that is where he got the build from. The OP is being WAAAAY too dismissive of MC. He's in a slump. Everybody slumps in a while.
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On September 19 2011 19:35 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 19:27 Dommk wrote:On September 19 2011 19:21 Poopi wrote:On September 19 2011 19:12 Dommk wrote:On September 19 2011 19:07 Poopi wrote:On September 19 2011 19:04 Yaki wrote:
Protoss in general are having a bad time it's not just MC and Alicia. HerO and Naniwa got roflestomped by terran at Dreamhack. Just wait MC will make a come back and win a championship again. Except that Rain & ThorZain were better players than NaNiWa and Hero ^^'. Hero is better than Thorzain and Rain, his first game alone where he managed to last so long after defending a 2rax with 1gate way (late 2nd gateway), 1Stargate, losing 13 Probes and being 2mins behind on his expo should be enough to say that Lol how is he a better player than ThorZain? ThorZain nearly won against DongRaeGu in his worst match-up, it's like HerO losing 2-3 against NesTea for a 15000 dollars match (aka NesTea playing seriously) since DRG is like top 2 ZvT, plus he crushed him head-to-head and has better results in the GSTL, equal results in GSL (1-2 in r32 code A). About Rain I'm not really sure if he is better than NaNiwa because it's close since Rain is not in korea anymore, games could have went either way, but ThorZain is definitively better than HerO. I say Hero is because he is one of the few top Protoss's right now that is having any form of success these days, especially in PvZ where you have Zergs who don't even make a single creep tumor beating players like MC >_> Yeah he is a promising protoss but he didn't lost against ThorZain because of his race or something like that... About MC he lost to HongUn so it's not only his race either, even if that doesn't help. GSL Code A Spoiler : + Show Spoiler +JYP crushing through oGsJookTo  I think that SaSe, Sage and Puzzle will win as well as NaNiwa and Huk, but it will be hard. GSL Code A Spoiler again : + Show Spoiler +I feel that MC will smash MLG so hard now that he is in code B, MKP 1st MC 2nd with MC grabbing the code S spot
He went 1 Gate Stargate on a map that is one of the most 1-1-1 friendly maps in the pool and got countered by a 2rax that took out every sentry and all 13 probes.
Last game was "wtf", but I don't think that was a good series to base anything off...
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Puzzle is pretty good. I wouldn't count him out from that group. How is he an honorable mention? He came out of nowhere, smashed through Code A, went straight up to Code S and smacked around some nerds in there before losing to Ryung strangely enough (who is terrible at TvP). I've seen some really cool play from Puzzle like warp prisms. He's probably the best we have. I expect a Protoss to win Code A though. Hero, Sage, and JYP are so good.
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On September 19 2011 20:34 Anomandaris wrote:Hongunprime is the best protoss in the world. He has a very solid style of play, and very consistent results in the GSL, despite his wrists problems. Genius, puzzle, Huk; they are all three decent but definately not strong enough to get to the finals of a GSL. TSL_JYP showed interesting PvZ, but failed hard in the past at other matchups. Sase, Naniwa, Hero; you love for TL and the foreign community blinds you. They barely stand their own in code A. Yet there are quite some code A protoss which could make code S this season hopefully. It is so saddening to see only 5/32 toss in code S . I am not so surprised by MC's result: He hasn't performed well in ages.
No, Hongun is just bad. His wins have come largely from a combination of luck, easy brackets, and the surprise factor of his cheesy strats.
Puzzle is probably the best protoss in the world right now.
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Code A Spoilers.
+ Show Spoiler +Pretty dissapointing from MC. JYP win against JookTo was expected..
I have my hopes on JYP, Sage, Hero and Sase. Naniwa and Puzzle will probably lose in their matches. =(
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To be honest, I can't really share your optimism. The perfect example why this is the case could be IdrA vs Hero on Metalopolis. IdrA was ridiculously ahead after the DT-opener (problem #1: DTs are reduced to a gimmick/cheese in SC2) and floated up to 5k minerals. Hero climbed back into the game with crazy multipronged aggression. He warped in from two warpprisms and furthermore attacked with blinkstalker/colossu.
Yet if IdrA had dumped half of his excess-minerals in spine-crawlers, the harass would've been 100% nullified. Zealots are terrible vs walls of spines. Same holds true for the playstyle of Sage. Not only is this style hard to pull off, but - from an observer-perspective - it doesn't look like it's that hard to stop if you know it's coming.
To not produce a wall of text: protoss just lacks a good non-cheesy harassment unit that can accompany the deathball-style which is caused by the necessity of sentries. Without that I'm afraid that the "new" styles will get figured out rather quickly. Zergs need a spire anyways, won't take long until they patrol a single mutalisk at the edge of their bases.
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EPT
