Sadly, the guys at the top of Protoss play don't seem like the best innovators, just great executors. That would include guys like Huk... great micro/macro, but innovator? No way.

It seems like the real innovators aren't necessarily the greatest macro/micro players. To save protoss, I'd look more to guys like White-Ra and Kiwikaki. Of course, it's unlikely that either of them will win a tournament with legit Koreans in it, but the better executors should look to those two to see how they handle PvT. Then they can copy it and execute it better for the wins.

As for Hero, when people say "he held off X with only Y", that's not innovation. That's good control. Top protoss players already have that. However, he does do a few interesting things, which makes me believe that maybe he's an innovator... still a little unsure on him. I'm not familiar enough with Sage, JYP, or Sase to comment on them, but no way is Nani an innovator... just another great executor.

ReaperX

Hong Kong1758 Posts

September 19 2011 10:46 GMT

#45

On September 19 2011 19:42 Q8_Devil wrote:
lol at choosing nani and sase as protoss hope.

I'd lol harder than you if they qualify. (Which I want them to, obviously)

Gladiator6

Sweden7024 Posts

September 19 2011 10:47 GMT

#46

You should add the protoss counter in the thread, current list of which protoss are in and out of GSL Code A and B!

Frozenzen

Sweden97 Posts

September 19 2011 10:48 GMT

#47

There is a reason all these innovators get hyped until they fail to reach code S and fall into obscurity. There really isn't much to innovate when your win or loss just depends on your opponent not messing up several times in a row. All the protoss at valencia got destroyed completely, hero only took out idra, which isn't really hard.
+ Show Spoiler +

And Jookto falling to jyp is hardlt surprising, jookto has barely done anything in gsl at all.

emc

United States3088 Posts

September 19 2011 10:49 GMT

#48

please use spoilers, the MC game basically just happened you are ruining esports

Itsmedudeman

United States19229 Posts

September 19 2011 10:52 GMT

#49

On September 19 2011 19:49 emc wrote:
please use spoilers, the MC game basically just happened you are ruining esports

(GSL Spoiler alert)

bittman

Australia8759 Posts

September 19 2011 10:56 GMT

#50

No HongUn? Everyone always forgets about him, or just dismisses him because when he loses...well he loses. But he constantly beats players in "surprise". I doubt he'll ever revolutionise the race, but he's not going away any time soon haha.

Ammanas

Slovakia2166 Posts

September 19 2011 10:58 GMT

#51

On September 19 2011 19:45 RenSC2 wrote:
Sadly, the guys at the top of Protoss play don't seem like the best innovators, just great executors. That would include guys like Huk... great micro/macro, but innovator? No way.

It seems like the real innovators aren't necessarily the greatest macro/micro players. To save protoss, I'd look more to guys like White-Ra and Kiwikaki. Of course, it's unlikely that either of them will win a tournament with legit Koreans in it, but the better executors should look to those two to see how they handle PvT. Then they can copy it and execute it better for the wins.

As for Hero, when people say "he held off X with only Y", that's not innovation. That's good control. Top protoss players already have that. However, he does do a few interesting things, which makes me believe that maybe he's an innovator... still a little unsure on him. I'm not familiar enough with Sage, JYP, or Sase to comment on them, but no way is Nani an innovator... just another great executor.

^ this so much. Probably best innovators right now (just assuming from what I saw) are HerO, Sage and SaSe. So these are the guys I would look forward the most.

ch33psh33p

7650 Posts

September 19 2011 10:58 GMT

#52

On September 19 2011 19:49 emc wrote:
please use spoilers, the MC game basically just happened you are ruining esports

And you can't read a thread title.

Tommylew

Wales2717 Posts

September 19 2011 11:07 GMT

#53

On September 19 2011 19:49 emc wrote:
please use spoilers, the MC game basically just happened you are ruining esports

yes because the is no (GSL Spoiler) in the thread name.....

ondik

Czech Republic2908 Posts

September 19 2011 11:07 GMT

#54

On September 19 2011 19:56 bittman wrote:
No HongUn? Everyone always forgets about him, or just dismisses him because when he loses...well he loses. But he constantly beats players in "surprise". I doubt he'll ever revolutionise the race, but he's not going away any time soon haha.

HongUn is terrible gimmicky player and I'm willing to bet he will be in code B in 4 seasons.. If he has to be our protoss hero, then I'll rather be heroless.

GreyKnight

United States4720 Posts

September 19 2011 11:08 GMT

#55

Hero is probably the best out of that bunch. His PvT is actually great but he ends up getting the short end of the build order stick and never gets the macro game.

bittman

Australia8759 Posts

September 19 2011 11:19 GMT

#56

On September 19 2011 20:07 ondik wrote:

Show nested quote +

HongUn is terrible gimmicky player and I'm willing to bet he will be in code B in 4 seasons.. If he has to be our protoss hero, then I'll rather be heroless.

Lovely attitude. Bet you think TheBest and Rain are terrible players too, since your adjective of "terrible" is based on what has been, not what could be. There are a lot of players who were gimmicky as hell, and have really looked strong since copping a slap to the face.

Protoss heroes obviously aren't going to be coming from "what has been", but rather "what could be". If you personally are looking for a hero, don't be picky if one appears and you don't like him because he looked bad in the past.

MC used to be the toss hero, and people thought he was laughable in Brood War. Take what you get, don't act entitled =P

Ryps

Romania2740 Posts

September 19 2011 11:23 GMT

#57

Funny how Huk has been in code S for some time and doing decently and people still underestimates him.

Poopi

France12791 Posts

September 19 2011 11:26 GMT

#58

On September 19 2011 20:07 ondik wrote:

Show nested quote +

HongUn is terrible gimmicky player and I'm willing to bet he will be in code B in 4 seasons.. If he has to be our protoss hero, then I'll rather be heroless.

If HongUn is a terrible gimmicky player, I don't know what MC is...
MC basically "invented" about every timing push protoss has, and HongUn uses them well because he can't really play macro games because of RSI issues, so he is as gimmicky as MC... and he crushes terrans a lot.

althaz

Australia1001 Posts

September 19 2011 11:28 GMT

#59

On September 19 2011 20:23 Drey wrote:
Funny how Huk has been in code S for some time and doing decently and people still underestimates him.

^THIS^ Huk is the best performing Protoss in the world right now. It took frickin' MVP to knock him out of the GSL and the absolutely BRUTAL Thorzain (with Huk one of the two best foreign players out there) to knock him out of Dreamhack.