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Ha, changes catered for Protoss.
I don´t think 3 base turtle toss will be a huge issue now because the game has changed, and even then its good that P have at least 1 heavily favoured map which I think is what GSL wanted. The rocsk I think are there to prevet silly stuff like -> wall off->Expo-> Expo off a Forge FE so I think taking a quick 3rd will be good as a Zerg.
Ehhh, I don't really like the changes to Belshir, I don't remember any GSL game where I though that the high ground was a problem. And I liked the 2nd entrance to the natural, maybe should just have been sealed off with Destructible Rocks, meh. The larger main is nice.
Choke pint changes are obviously meant to help with FFE(IIRC MC said that FFE was the better opening for PvZ, too bad I suck with it...)
Fair changes, not like GSL or anyone cares about what I think.
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Wow this actually help Protoss a lot. Especially PvZ on Terminus and PvT on belshir.
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On September 17 2011 11:18 Torte de Lini wrote:
NOOOOOOOOO DESTRUCTIBLE ROCKS
UGH! Hit by the Blizzard virus
On the plus side, I guess we'll be getting Terminus LE as a season 4 map, which is still an improvement. I can't see any other reason for this. Terminus has been around forever without complaint. Now it'll be even easier to turtle on. I suppose the good news is that now Zerg might have an incentive to take the fourth as their third in certain situations, which could get interesting. That might actually be the point, and it's easier to take the fourth as a third on Terminus then on, say, Tal'Darim.
The high ground area of Bel'Shir added to defender's advantage. I'll miss it. Getting rid of the second entrance into the natural is probably good, though.
I'd love to understand GOM's reasoning for these changes, though.
On September 17 2011 13:29 snafoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 11:33 Sandro wrote:
Here I was thinking GOM was going to add a whole new slew of maps that are unfavorable to Terran or something. Explain what a bad map for terran is.
Two rich gases at the natural/third to allow more gas, thus buffing most things that aren't gas-light bio while not increasing one-base tech power?
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On September 17 2011 14:42 wolfe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2011 14:32 snafoo wrote:On September 17 2011 13:52 Q8_Devil wrote:Explain what a bad map for terran is. you would be surprised how bad some maps are for terran but it is the superior race in korea so it doesn't matter. Such as? I mean, specifically in TvP, I don't think their can be a bad map for terran. Crossfire I feel isn't a good TvP map.
More like TvZ. Protoss could take the expo on that map easily but Zerg can't take the third that easy. And tanks on that map is just ridiculous.
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Sooooooo:
Terminus
1) Narrowed pathway - easier to wall-in, useful in defence from ground harassment as response to a FE (e.g. hellions, zerg/roach rush, etc).
2) Rocked Ramp removed - makes 3rd much safer and only gives 1 "proper route" to natural, most likely best for Protoss, but also good for all specifically in the early game.
3) Destructible rock 3rd - Weeeeeeelllll as much as the rocks are sort of a bane to players, with the ramp removed it's now faaaar easier to take a 3rd. By at least delaying it, it will stop any race from no-army double expanding and reaping rewards. I'm so-so on this though, just because rocks =/
Belshir Beach
1) I actually liked the high ground. This wasn't the reason Zerg were favoured, but perhaps it made scouting harder than usual.
2) Hmm, I actually liked the double ramps, it made defence much tighter whereas now any race just needs to focus on the one ramp. I feel like the main issue with Belshir's ramps was that the second could be easily snuck into without specific building or unit placement, with easy mineral line access and then easily retreated from with little damage. I feel like the change also makes movement between the second and third a little longer, so not sure if I'm happy about that in particular.
3) Main a little bigger - Yeaaaah I'm ok with that, since the natural was small in area, leaving Terran building placements often to become a game of chess. Makes drops more feasible, and there's also a lot of room now behind the minerals, for better or worse.
Overall - Terminus changes I like, even though rocks are a bit "=/". Belshir changes are only so-so. In my opinion they haven't changed what made it such a heavily zerg favoured map which is the central area imo, though the double ramp removal might be all that was required? We'll see I suppose.
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Thanks for the info. I actually think that I like all of these changes for the most part, but I actually really like the high ground on Bel'Shir beach.
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just make map like Daybreak then i'll die happy XD
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Good changes for the most part, particularly to bel shir, can't say I like change 3 for terminus though, seriously why destructible rocks D:
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The changes sound fine, except for the high ground removal on Bel'Shir. Like others have said, that was one of my favorite parts of the map and never seemed to cause an imbalance.
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Meh i dislike most of these a lot...removing atack paths (from Z pov) sucks. Not just as a nerf, but because it removes so much of interesting gameplay, run by's etc.
Ah well, at least i don't have to play these maps 
Games might end up more boring, when turtling is so much easier.
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terminus is going to make toss a little too powerful imo
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Not sure if Bel'shire change will really balance it. Also I don't like the removal of the high ground. This will make PvP so much worse to watch...
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The rocks in the 2nd expansion of Terminus is a big deal o_o, no more fast double FE for Zergs now
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Interesting changes. The Bel'Shir ones were to be expected to be honest, but the Terminus ones are a little bit of a surprise. The only logical reason behind them is to address ZvP on that map.
Eager to see how they affect the gameplay going into GSL October.
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They should just remove Terminus, the layout with 3 "free" bases per side is stupid and leads to ninja bases because you simply can't hold half of the map, not to mention that drops are the king because they have so much space where they can be parked.
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I expected more complaints about adding destructible rocks to an expansion.
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Terminus changes are great. It had a stupid 70ish win rate in ZvP (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/maps/443_Terminus%20SE). And protoss getting a third was a big hassle on that map. Belshir changes make it a 4 gate map in PvP though, which is annoying but it's less of a Zerg Beach now. I really liked the high ground in PvP, it actually gave a defenders advantage for once.
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Can you still put two bunkers in that area between main and natural and block it completely?
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Aahahhaha yess! Those destructible rocks were sooo retarded sometimes -_-;;
I'm kind of sad that they just kind of placed them somewhere else though. I'm not sure why, were zergs able to take their third too quickly according to gom? :S It makes the map more blizzard-ized, by removing some of the uniqueness (specifically having a smaller, less profitable but more defendable expo) and making it more standard and sterile. Anyways.
*i'm typing this as i'm checking the new changes*
Bel'shir change is pretty big... Meh, I dunno how I feel about that, it kind of made Bel'shir unique in that you couldn't 4gate very easily, and thus PvP's were generally more interesting. Oh wait! There ARE no more PvP's in code S! Hurrah!
The others make Bel'shir less zerg favored I guess, and while I certainly won't pretend to be an expert on map balance, a lot of people were complaining it was too good for Zergs. So yeah, there it is.
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On September 17 2011 13:00 Complete wrote:
soooo bel'shir is just a 4gate map like tal'darim now?
I really don't like these maps (tal'darim, belshir) that just completely ignore balancing an entire matchup...
It already was...
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EPT
