EPTAnother Neural Parasite Change. - Page 31
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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Demonhunter04
1530 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:23 Steel wrote: I'm Zerg and I understand the NP change to fix infestors in ZvP but I have no idea how I'm going to deal with mech in the late game. I don't think that even if I remax 3 times with whatever units you want I could kill tank thor viking without being able to neural half the thors. It was already pretty hard with range 9 to not instantly die. A mix of Zerglings, Ultralisks, and Brood Lords? That might work. Add some corruptors for the vikings or just skip the brood lords and get moar ultras. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:26 Turbo.Tactics wrote: How many times do you see NP beeing used without the infestors getting sniped. Now imagine the same with less range. Awful change... I rather take the non massive and NP 1 blink out of range than this. If it happens often you won't even notice the range change :D | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:22 Demonhunter04 wrote: -_- so many people on bnet forums are saying that colossus range is 7 by default when it's actually 6. Khaydarin Amulet is pretty unfair though. Being able to warp in and storm immediately means a powerful, immediate response to any kind of harass. Don't start with the KA, I think it's removal was totally unfair. You still have to have the tech, you still have to have the gas (considering every other necessary unit you have requires a shit ton of it), and that templar is probably going to die anyway. | ||
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Turbo.Tactics
Germany675 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:27 branflakes14 wrote: If it happens often you won't even notice the range change :D Well played Sir! I guess the appropriate reaction is to burn your mana on fungals rather than hoping the enemy doesnt move. Or combine fungal and NP which at least takes some skill and keeps them alive for at least 1 blink cooldown. | ||
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R3N
740 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:18 Heavenly wrote: You also used personal attacks the entire time and are just stating completely random things. Arguing with you is pointless because you seem to have no idea what is actually being argued. Here, I'll humor you one more time and try to make this as simple as possible. I have explained why roaches are bad in a 200/200 engagement of pure roaches. It is their supply inefficiency and being outranged so more stalkers engage. I acknowledged this the entire time, but roaches are most cost-effective than stalkers in anything that's not a maxed out scenario where range comes into play. However that scenario never happens because no one goes to 200/200 roaches anymore.The reason I brought infestor/broodlord into it is the same reason you brought up storms/colossi/archons beating roaches---because we are moving into late game past t1 of stalker v roach into t3, and zerg should have t3 to beat protoss' t3. No shit that roaches die to colossi/storm/archons with stalker support in the late game, stalkers also die to broodlords and infestors with roach support very cost-inefficiently. Also roach damage is higher than stalker damage at 3/3, so how can you say they have shit damage when they have more DPS at half the cost? I was discussing with another guy, you came in and started with the insults  Why do you even defend yourselves when I throw 'em back.No one has ever gone 200/200 roaches because it's laughable- not just because of supply inefficient but because they can't fucking accomplish anything. Lol, you never mentioned stalker range, and dps I did, and you don't have arguments against it and trying to save your skin by blatant lying. Also that a 1 3/3 upgrade roach have more dps than a stalker is irrelevant in lategame, because *again* you cannot utilize them unless the terrain favors you and you 'toss opponent is bad; something you never wrote or understand and trying to look as if you do. You didn't acknowledge shit as you never mentioned or even insinuated these things, you were saying roaches are a hard counter to archons lol. Why should zerg have t3 to beat toss t3? Mass roach! It really works lulz... Also never did I say you ain't allowed to build roaches lategame (they are an excellent reinforcement-unit, more firepower than lings often) but you absolutely cannot mass them lategame or you're playing it wrong. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:29 Turbo.Tactics wrote: Well played Sir! I guess the appropriate reaction is to burn your mana on fungals rather than hoping the enemy doesnt move. Or combine fungal and NP which at least takes some skill and keeps them alive for at least 1 blink cooldown. Nope just find their sentries and fungal them, then move in for the gg. It's often times just that easy. | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
Make fungal growth like maelstrom from BW (only immobilizes) but make it longer... make it 6 or 7 seconds. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
It's just disgusting that whining wins once again. | ||
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MacDubhghaill
United States41 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:17 IamPryda wrote: Figures just like fungal not affecting air units got reverted by Zerg qq so does np. I wonder why no other options were looked at for the Templar before they just removed the amulet. It's pretty clear how the races are treated- terran is blizzards pride and joy and Zerg is the fully grown adult that blizzards feels the need to still baby and Protoss is the middle child no one gives a shit about So, you are saying this: Terran - no QQ Zerg - QQ, but tries to get something done about it Protoss - QQ in the corner wondering why they don't get more patches. On to the topic of the change, this is actually really reasonable. Forcing more position play on infestors pushes Zerg play into the intended play style in my opinion. What I mean by this is that Zerg is a race that shouldn't be played by smashing two balls into each other and seeing who wins. Zerg is supposed to be the race that engulfs the ball from all sides. Bruce Lee comes to mind when I think of how Zerg is supposed to be played. + Show Spoiler + Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way round or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend. That being said, I don't play that way because I'm not that good. But, looking back at the NP change I do think that it will force new positioning tactics towards this "water" play style. | ||
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Ceio
Scotland27 Posts
Cost of infestor, 100/200, harder to mass them Fungal damage same as the nerf in the match, 30(40) Infested Terrans do 1 less damage per shot OR cost 30 energy instead of 25 ( 6 terrans per Infestor instead of 8 ) Neural same as it always is at 9 range... Just my thoughts, i think the neural change is uncalled for as i have never won a game because of neural itself. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:31 MacDubhghaill wrote: So, you are saying this: Terran - no QQ Zerg - QQ, but tries to get something done about it Protoss - QQ in the corner wondering why they don't get more patches. On to the topic of the change, this is actually really reasonable. Forcing more position play on infestors pushes Zerg play into the intended play style in my opinion. What I mean by this is that Zerg is a race that shouldn't be played by smashing two balls into each other and seeing who wins. Zerg is supposed to be the race that engulfs the ball from all sides. Bruce Lee comes to mind when I think of how Zerg is supposed to be played. + Show Spoiler + Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way round or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend. That being said, I don't play that way because I'm not that good. But, looking back at the NP change I do think that it will force new positioning tactics towards this "water" play style. All it will likey do is almost require a good fungal to chain into a good NP. Right now you can just flood with lings and get a NP, which also stands for no problem (colossi? No Problem. HT? No Problem. Archon, Mothership, Carrier? No Problem!). | ||
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EdSlyB
Portugal1621 Posts
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aWildRATTATA
Netherlands49 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:31 tehemperorer wrote: Nope just find their sentries and fungal them, then move in for the gg. It's often times just that easy. 3 fungals, 12 seconds. Go try it against someone who keeps them on a seperate hotkey. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
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rdj107
United States336 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:21 iamke55 wrote: Looks like QQ wins again. At this point I really wish Idra and his legion of fanboys played Protoss instead. I have no doubt we would still have KA, NP wouldn't work vs massive, and roaches would have 3 range if that were the case. Sorry but what? This is a stupid comment even when you're not shoehorning it in where it's completely irrelevant. Also in what way is 7 range suddenly not a nerf? It's arguably worse than not effecting massive at all, how did the "QQ" win? | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:34 aWildRATTATA wrote: 3 fungals, 12 seconds. Go try it against someone who keeps them on a seperate hotkey. High masters, zergs do it all the time. engage, sac a portion of lings to fungal the sentries; I have to stay balled up anyways and if my position is too spread I either lose lone sentries or drop too many FF. If it's ling roach infestor, I get baited force fields to deplete the energy too; after that there's not much you can do about anything. With infestors and NP/FG combo like it is, the outcome of the engagements in PvZ are way too pivotal/decisive and balance is way too fragile. | ||
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Percutio
United States1672 Posts
Massive air will probably have enough support for them to not be able to get the NP off. If they wanted to fix it against motherships then just make the mothership "heroic" or something which makes it unable to be hit by NP. Likewise you could do the same thing with biological, mechanical, or robotic modifiers if you wanted to further mix it up. Obviously adding too many things would be messy, but it is just an example of how easy it is to fix NP without making it useless. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On September 16 2011 07:36 rdj107 wrote: Sorry but what? This is a stupid comment even when you're not shoehorning it in where it's completely irrelevant. Also in what way is 7 range suddenly not a nerf? It's arguably worse than not effecting massive at all, how did the "QQ" win? The 9 range NP negates a costly upgrade, that's not something that needs to be addressed? | ||
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Jimbo77
139 Posts
Range change 9->7 is a good step, but this creature needs really more tweaks. IT should be the next step. Then FG. | ||
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