This is going to be a short question so if a mod wants to close it, i understand.
I just recently moved from USA to Taiwan and i just got an account here to play Sc2. I was a mid-high masters terran in NA but after winning all 5 placement matches i got placed into platinum here in the more-or-less Korean server.
I'm not suprised about the placement, but im more surprised about my record in platinum.
As of now, I'm having an extremely hard time winning consistantly in PLATINUM on KR/TW server and I'm pretty much freaking out. I dont know if it's cuz i havent played for a while (2 weeks) or is it just cuz this server is just that much better.
I noticed in NA, i have a lot of build order win but on this Asian server, i'm having ZERO build orders. Games are much more macro orientated and I'm pretty much only having a 60% win percentage here in platinum
Keep in mind, on NA i had a 55% win percentage in Masters. Is it just cuz I got bad now or is it just cuz the server's average skill is just that much higher?
Sorry for asking such a short question, but im pretty much depressed right now about starcraft...
I believe it's a mix of both. Not playing for those 2 weeks lowered your skill level a bit and the KR/TW server is supposed to be the hardest server of them all so I would say you're fine. Just keep at it and I'm sure you'll improve and make your way back up
It's generally accepted that the Korean server's Masters league players are far better than the NA players in Masters.
You're probably just facing far better players in Platinum than you're used to, and keep in mind that your MMR hasn't really been established yet, so just keep at it!
You have gone from one of the weakest servers to the best of the best.
That is to be expected imo.
I have friends who play on NA and they say it is a joke and everyone just cheeses... I have no personal experience of this but that seems to be the general opinion of the people around me who have bought smurf accounts on NA.
the playstyle is just different, you will get accustomed to it in a short while and move higher, but tons of factors make it that its harder to get into master there. (and that players there play better is partly an illusion, though the average play time of the leagues are higher there)
And imo the hardest server is eu if you are in asia :3 anyway (omg the lag). My experience was like that, NA more cheese, EU way more macro games, KR more allins.
So go eu if you love macro :p. (oh and if you love long tvts ! ) and aren't grandmaster somwhere already. (then it might not be challenging enough)
For me, the obvious difference between NA and KR is that KR, everyone has solid micro/macro. I dont see any obvious slip-ups from even the platinum players i'm playing. Build Order wins are almost impossible and their macro is just so much better from what i saw on the NA server.
In NA, i was already struggling with TvZ (I'm just bad at micro vs infestors baneling) so I try to harass my way to victory. In KR, TvZ is basically an Auto-lose for me since no matter how much i harass, they just outmacro me at the end.
People are mentioned all in, i agree, their TvP are much more All-in ish (maybe toss are scared of the 1-1-1 builds)
Oddly enough, my most hated matchup (TvT) turns out to be the most similar to NA and i have a high win rate in that regard..
Regardless, this skill gap is making me quite sad.. it's not like I'm playing diamon people, everyone i play are Plat and they are still pwning me pretty hard..
Mid masters NA and you will be top 65% DIAMOND, assuming your mid-masters account had a large sample size.
Top 25% masters get into high diamond, from those I've seen transfer over. (Top 10% will scrape masters, Top 5% will get into 50th-25th masters, GM will get 20th-1st percentile masters or for rare exceptions GM - assuming they were active in the GM formation period [idra, huk, etc]).
On September 14 2011 23:30 Micket wrote: Artosis said on a sotg episode that mid masters NA players couldn't get out of Plat in KR. So, this situation is probably quite common.
I think NA and Eu are similar (mid masters NA = low masters Eu?) but KR is ridiculous.
I don't know about Artosis, but my 2 sample size disagrees with this claim.
I know two top 25% masters on NA that are sitting nicely in High Diamond.
On September 14 2011 23:30 Micket wrote: Artosis said on a sotg episode that mid masters NA players couldn't get out of Plat in KR. So, this situation is probably quite common.
I think NA and Eu are similar (mid masters NA = low masters Eu?) but KR is ridiculous.
I don't know about Artosis, but my 2 sample size disagrees with this claim.
I know two top 25% masters on NA that are sitting nicely in High Diamond.
Players get better over time. Starting out on the Kr server you get destroyed over and over again.
On September 14 2011 23:40 sVnteen wrote: i think its time to say what everybody from eu has been saying forever
KR>EU>US>SEA
I thought this was common knowledge?
People just need to stop taking it personally. Im on NA and i'm quite conscious that the other servers are better. However, it wouldn't change anything for me, at my level, unless I was GM.
I have only played on KR using a 30 day trial account when the servers merged and was placed in plat and moved up to Diamond quite fast, I then found that I was around the same level that I was at on my mid masters EU account. I do not play NA (low masters) that much, but the ladder is not necessarily easier, but a lot more cheese and all in type play. This is means that you just have to play safe and never really get to a macro game. If you learn to play SC2 on NA and then go to EU or KR, you may have a harder time in the later game than if you came for example from EU.
This is just my opinion from what I have experienced from playing on the 3 ladders but I would say that KR is one league above EU, and then EU is one above NA.
On September 14 2011 23:30 Micket wrote: Artosis said on a sotg episode that mid masters NA players couldn't get out of Plat in KR. So, this situation is probably quite common.
I think NA and Eu are similar (mid masters NA = low masters Eu?) but KR is ridiculous.
I don't know about Artosis, but my 2 sample size disagrees with this claim.
I know two top 25% masters on NA that are sitting nicely in High Diamond.
Players get better over time. Starting out on the Kr server you get destroyed over and over again.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. They got to high diamond on KR after 3 days of playing there, after playing on NA for their whole SC2 life.
It's not that you got worse, it's that you moved to a server that is simply much much better than NA. I placed into gold on KR/TW (diamond on NA) and I can't say I'm surprised that masters players on NA are placing into plat/diamond on KR/TW.
Welcome to the KR/TW server! I've been in Taiwan for my 4th year now. People who play on the KR/TW server are generally really unpredictable but there are some that are actually have really solid play. I can't compare it to the NA server since I grew up playing SC2 from TW. You're welcome to add me: KoN.894
On September 14 2011 23:30 Micket wrote: Artosis said on a sotg episode that mid masters NA players couldn't get out of Plat in KR. So, this situation is probably quite common.
I think NA and Eu are similar (mid masters NA = low masters Eu?) but KR is ridiculous.
Artosis also likes to make bold biased claims. I love the guy, but don't take something he said in passing as the truth.
KR is indeed better in my experience (Plat EU Silver then Gold KR) and I think it's more important to keep up with metagame in KR. First placement TvT (in the week following the MVP MLG) I got Hellions Marine elevatored, SlayerS style.
I've seen quite a few Toss all-ins, and Zergs are either Gosu or Baneling Busts.
On September 14 2011 23:30 Micket wrote: Artosis said on a sotg episode that mid masters NA players couldn't get out of Plat in KR. So, this situation is probably quite common.
I think NA and Eu are similar (mid masters NA = low masters Eu?) but KR is ridiculous.
Artosis also likes to make bold biased claims. I love the guy, but don't take something he said in passing as the truth.
That said, the way he says superlative stuff like that with a serious straight face might indeed confuse the community as to the validity of them. I mean, he .is Artosis so we are going to listen to him.
On September 14 2011 23:30 Micket wrote: Artosis said on a sotg episode that mid masters NA players couldn't get out of Plat in KR. So, this situation is probably quite common.
I think NA and Eu are similar (mid masters NA = low masters Eu?) but KR is ridiculous.
Artosis also likes to make bold biased claims. I love the guy, but don't take something he said in passing as the truth.
This is what I've begun to think.. He claimed in latest MLG that you have to go 1 base collosus against 1-1-1, but doesn't he say he only scrapes in 2 hours a day for gametime or something, and that is just high masters in Korea which isn't even that great to be able to make an assertive claim like that... Demuslim then said "that's really bad" when told about the idea :s
I play on all 3 servers and in my experience, NA = high quantity of cheese, EU = around same caliber as NA but with better zergs, KR=less cheese than the other 2 servers and higher average caliber.
KR is kinda weird as a server, people start having already good build/openers in high platinum but you can clearly see that their late game is lacking. The more you advance, the better their late game becomes.
even the bronze in KR server knows how to do a well timed 4 gate... encountered one on the ladder while i was purposely in bronze.
@OP: kr server is definitely the hardest, because the people have been playing scbw for 10 years already. either that, or they've been watching starcraft those 10 years, so most of them would know how to play the game. you'll be one league down in KR as compared to your US league.
e.g. if you're masters in US, you'll be diamond. everyone is like that, i have experience.
On September 14 2011 23:30 Micket wrote: Artosis said on a sotg episode that mid masters NA players couldn't get out of Plat in KR. So, this situation is probably quite common.
I think NA and Eu are similar (mid masters NA = low masters Eu?) but KR is ridiculous.
Artosis also likes to make bold biased claims. I love the guy, but don't take something he said in passing as the truth.
I think Chill is correct here. Most people who play Sc2 do so casually, and for Plat League to be at a higher level in KR than in NA would mean thatn the 60-79th percentiles of players would have to be better. Also, Artosis may have been joking, or may have misspoken somewhere.
On September 14 2011 22:13 titan55 wrote: I noticed in NA, i have a lot of build order win but on this Asian server, i'm having ZERO build orders. Games are much more macro orientated and I'm pretty much only having a 60% win percentage here in platinum
I've played like two(2) macro games total on KR. I get 6-pooled, roach rushed, baneling busted, 4gated, 3gate VR allined, 2gated, thor rushed, bio rushed, marine scv allined, etc most of my games. In my experience, Koreans are in a big rush to finish the game.
There's a reason the most aggressive, fastest, deadliest and all-innest 4-warpgate rush is called the Korean 4gate.
It could be that the strats you are up against are not the same in KR/TW as they are in NA, and therefore your responses might be off, that or you are just underestimating the skill of platinum players, 2 weeks without gaming isn't going to change shit except for maybe the first 3 games...
If you were mid masters on NA then you should get to diamond on KR. That's where I am anyway. People who claim that NA master is equivalent to KR plat are exaggerating.
i was on NA, mid masters player, switched to Korea made it to plat i'm now a high diamond player looking to get better. when i do play on NA now i am so much better, you have to adjust your style when you switch servers. Every server plays differently, some better or some worse. Just different
On September 14 2011 23:40 sVnteen wrote: i think its time to say what everybody from eu has been saying forever
KR>EU>US>SEA
I believe it's more like this...
KR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EU>US>SEA :p
But to the OP, you joined a much harder server and are rusty, it's gonna be tough for a bit but good luck!
let me correct that
Idra>KR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EU>US>SEA
Does Greg have a smurf TL account? Ohh wait Greg wouldn't make a joke that makes no sense I don't think. Sorry lol that was just bad, especially considering Idra has fallen off a bit as of late.
Im mid/high masters on eu server( hardly play) and high diamond on KR/TW. I think its just the players on KR are just that good!. I found very quickly that after playing on Kr, high masters players on eu are 80% free win. maybe ive had a strange experience but IMO KR is just that good.
On September 14 2011 23:40 sVnteen wrote: i think its time to say what everybody from eu has been saying forever
KR>EU>US>SEA
I believe it's more like this...
KR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EU>US>SEA :p
But to the OP, you joined a much harder server and are rusty, it's gonna be tough for a bit but good luck!
let me correct that
Idra>KR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EU>US>SEA
Does Greg have a smurf TL account? Ohh wait Greg wouldn't make a joke that makes no sense I don't think. Sorry lol that was just bad, especially considering Idra has fallen off a bit as of late.
Opinion: The average EU/KR player is better than NA. [Don't kid yourselves with the mysticism. For every great Korean player, there are thousands of Korean newbs. Starcraft to Korea is not like soccer to Brazil, where any average dude off the street could take on any American collegiate-level soccer player.]
Fact: There are a larger number of good players in EU/KR. This results in a steeper skill curve and a masters-skilled NA player would be repositioned into plat/diamond in KR/EU server.
On September 15 2011 02:29 ImGonnaRideYou wrote: Opinion: The average EU/KR player is better than NA. [Don't kid yourselves with the mysticism. For every great Korean player, there are thousands of Korean newbs. Starcraft to Korea is not like soccer to Brazil, where any average dude off the street could take on any American collegiate-level soccer player.]
Fact: There are a larger number of good players in EU/KR. This results in a steeper skill curve and a masters-skilled NA player would be repositioned into plat/diamond in KR/EU server.
Leagues are not standardized. It's all curves.
From what I've seen from other streamers who have both EU and NA or both KR and NA accounts, if you're Master on one server you're master on the other. And by "other streamers" I mean "the streamer that I watch constantly, Debo"
On September 14 2011 23:30 Micket wrote: Artosis said on a sotg episode that mid masters NA players couldn't get out of Plat in KR. So, this situation is probably quite common.
I think NA and Eu are similar (mid masters NA = low masters Eu?) but KR is ridiculous.
Artosis also likes to make bold biased claims. I love the guy, but don't take something he said in passing as the truth.
I think Chill is correct here. Most people who play Sc2 do so casually, and for Plat League to be at a higher level in KR than in NA would mean thatn the 60-79th percentiles of players would have to be better. Also, Artosis may have been joking, or may have misspoken somewhere.
On September 14 2011 22:13 titan55 wrote: I noticed in NA, i have a lot of build order win but on this Asian server, i'm having ZERO build orders. Games are much more macro orientated and I'm pretty much only having a 60% win percentage here in platinum
I've played like two(2) macro games total on KR. I get 6-pooled, roach rushed, baneling busted, 4gated, 3gate VR allined, 2gated, thor rushed, bio rushed, marine scv allined, etc most of my games. In my experience, Koreans are in a big rush to finish the game.
There's a reason the most aggressive, fastest, deadliest and all-innest 4-warpgate rush is called the Korean 4gate.
Yeah I thought it was strange that he was experiencing more "macro" games in KR server. Normally macro phase begins once a player has given up on an aggression (or a player successfully defended). A lot of builds that are considered "cheese" (such as marine/scv and 1/1/1) come much faster and stronger.
On September 15 2011 03:11 sm0b wrote: The KR server is no joke, my MMR puts me against Top Plat/ Daimond players for the most part and I'm Master in NA.
On September 14 2011 23:30 Micket wrote: Artosis said on a sotg episode that mid masters NA players couldn't get out of Plat in KR. So, this situation is probably quite common.
I think NA and Eu are similar (mid masters NA = low masters Eu?) but KR is ridiculous.
Artosis also likes to make bold biased claims. I love the guy, but don't take something he said in passing as the truth.
I think Chill is correct here. Most people who play Sc2 do so casually, and for Plat League to be at a higher level in KR than in NA would mean thatn the 60-79th percentiles of players would have to be better. Also, Artosis may have been joking, or may have misspoken somewhere.
On September 14 2011 22:13 titan55 wrote: I noticed in NA, i have a lot of build order win but on this Asian server, i'm having ZERO build orders. Games are much more macro orientated and I'm pretty much only having a 60% win percentage here in platinum
I've played like two(2) macro games total on KR. I get 6-pooled, roach rushed, baneling busted, 4gated, 3gate VR allined, 2gated, thor rushed, bio rushed, marine scv allined, etc most of my games. In my experience, Koreans are in a big rush to finish the game.
There's a reason the most aggressive, fastest, deadliest and all-innest 4-warpgate rush is called the Korean 4gate.
Yeah I thought it was strange that he was experiencing more "macro" games in KR server. Normally macro phase begins once a player has given up on an aggression (or a player successfully defended). A lot of builds that are considered "cheese" (such as marine/scv and 1/1/1) come much faster and stronger.
I experience most of the time macro games on korea where as on NA I get cheese for what seems most of my games now of days. (although I kind of stopped playing on NA as I have played like maybe 15 ladder games in the past 2 or so weeks mainly play korea). I am high masters/gm on NA (didn't get gm this season as again mainly play korean) and I'm mid-high masters on korea and I play a lot more macro oriented games.
The skill level between the servers is very large, and the average korean is a lot better then the average EU/NA players its why the korean server is such good practice. Their builds are a lot more refined, better macro, better multi tasking, just better game play.
but to the OP, not playing for 2 weeks does make you rusty and then playing on the hardest server out there doesn't help either. I know a couple mid-low masters player on NA who play on korea but can't get out of diamond so don't feel to bad just have to get used to the playstyle and seeing flaws in your builds. I have found many flaws in my zvt/zvp from playing on korea and its helped me make some huge adjustments and now I just have a more refined build ^_^.
Currently I'm about 820 with 160 pool masters in NA and about 530 +100ish pool diamond in KR. I've only played about 60 games on the KR server so far but but I have about a 65% win rate so far so I should be a little bit higher in diamond. There's definitely a noticeable and significant difference between the skill level of the korean ladder and the NA ladder. Sometimes on NA I play a 900 masters level guy and I shake my head thinking wow, the last platinum korean guy I played was much better than this.
Wow i figured US Masters would be Gold Kr level, I guess I was close enough. They are actually just that much better so dont freak out. You just wont have your shiny feel good masters icon anymore, but the higher competition will make you an actually better player. Its a 100% win for you as long as you arnt one of those superficial people.
On September 15 2011 03:34 R0YAL wrote: Wow i figured US Masters would be Gold Kr level, I guess I was close enough. They are actually just that much better so dont freak out. You just wont have your shiny feel good masters icon anymore, but the higher competition will make you an actually better player. Its a 100% win for you as long as you arnt one of those superficial people.
Technically, unless you're at the very very top of the NA server, it's the same level of competition; you'll win over 50% rate until you're up against opponents of your skill level. If you're playing tougher players on KR, you'll get demoted until you're facing opponents of the same skill, since that's how MMR works.
Yea tw/kr server is definitely harder. I bought a taiwanese account a while back (when I was in high diamond) and i was plat, almost diamond. I havn't playedon it for a while, but the skill gap is quite noticeable. I'd say the distribution is high diamond-low masters (NA) is plat (KR), mid masters (NA) is diamond (KR), and high masters (NA) somewhere between high diamond-high-ish masters (KR). I can't say for gm, but there are many gm in NA who are not gm in KR.
Opinion: The average EU/KR player is better than NA. [Don't kid yourselves with the mysticism. For every great Korean player, there are thousands of Korean newbs. Starcraft to Korea is not like soccer to Brazil, where any average dude off the street could take on any American collegiate-level soccer player.]
Fact: There are a larger number of good players in EU/KR. This results in a steeper skill curve and a masters-skilled NA player would be repositioned into plat/diamond in KR/EU server.
Leagues are not standardized. It's all curves
I think, like most people, you are overrating the EU ladder. A NA master would definitely still stay master on EU (and probably at around the same ratings to be fair). To be honest, I think the only real difference is that EU seems to have better zergs overall.
EPT
