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Hi everyone. This is an introduction to a new web-based build order planner I've been working on. I'm new to this forum and while this could be considered shameless self-promotion I hope the utility and relevance of this tool to this community will merit an exception.
The purpose of this tool is to examine, optimize and share builds and to fiddle around with ideas before trying them out in game. The simulation can handle most things like energy, larva count, mineral/gas patch saturation, expansions, chronoboosting, mules, upgrades, larvaspawning from queens, scouting, extractor trick etc. It does not take travel distances into account however, so it usually represents the best case scenario.
How it works in a nutshell
- Actions such as building a probe, start mining gas or sending out a scout are added to a list. This is your build order.
- Simulator traverse the list in order, always executing next item in list as soon as possible.
- Build timings are visualized in a timeline categorized by type (workers, buildings, units etc).
- Set time to any point and you can see current resources and available actions.
- Drag and drop orders in list to find out optimal timings. (Drag and drop may not yet work in all browsers.)
- Click items to remove them. Hover over them to see more information.
- Save and share builds by copying the URL.
Some actions may need a bit more explanation
- To chronoboost, place one or several chronoboost BEFORE the unit/upgrade you want chronoboosted.
- Use the pause action to delay the next action from the point it otherwise would have started.
- Use Go out with workers to simulate scouting or worker transfer
- Use Hatchery in Base if you want another Hatchery without making another set of mineral and gas patches available.
- Extractor trick will build an extractor and then cancel it three seconds later. Use pause to time it correctly.
- Addon switching is handled automatically. For example if you build a banshee and you have a tech lab it assumes you have switched them even if you built the techlab on your barracks. If you want to simulate hovering around with buildings, use pause.
Thankful for any feedback, bug reports or ideas how to improve this tool. One idea is to make it export to Yabot, but I'm not familiar with its format or if people still use it. If there are interest I will definitely try implement such requests.
You can find the build planner here
www.sc2planner.com
Some example builds (originally grabbed from liquipedia)
1 Rax Fast expand
4 Warpgate Push
14 Pool, 15 Hatchery
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Can I just say, this is AWESOME.
Just having a play aorund with it now.
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I don't always comment on Teamliquid.
But when I do it's to say how amazing a tool is.
<3
Edit: I found a small bug that won't let me make a siege tank and research siege tech at the same time because they both use the tech lab.
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This is pretty cool man, well done!
EDIT: Maybe I'm just a tool but there's nothing limiting Adrenal Glands to only Hive tech. I just researched it at 3:39.
Of course experienced players know this isn't possible, but a newbie messing around with it might get confused.
Just an FYI if you're looking for tweaks.
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MIND = BLOWN
this is so much fun to use, seriously, thank you
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Yes, yes, a thousand times YES! I've been dreaming of something like this for months, and I'm so glad someone found the time to actually develop it!
I can't seem to find it at the moment, but I recall that there was a pretty good guide to the format used by YABOT at http://www.sc2builds.com
Feedback: It would be nice if the number of pauses were shown on the pause icon. Also, after a bit of experimentation, I still can't figure out how to get it to delay my first chrono boost until my pylon has completed.
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Oh my god, I feel like you hacked my brain.
I was working on a planner EXACTLY like this one. Up to the smallest details as far as I can see. The only difference is that mine wasn't gonna be web-based.
Well, gg, I guess I don't need to complete mine anymore :D
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anyway to enlarge the main window? I have to scroll down for zerg buildings.
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This is really well done. Good job!
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This tool is absolutely amazing as far as I can tell!!! Thank you very much!
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HOLY SHIT this is stupidly easy to use, very awesome visually, and omg epic! :D THANK YOU!
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On September 01 2011 00:04 Garnet wrote:
anyway to enlarge the main window? I have to scroll down for zerg buildings.
Are you talking about having more than like 20 tracks? I didn't think this would be very common. Can you give an example?
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Wow man... I can see this becoming very, very powerful in the future. This is quite amazing. I haven't played with it too much (because I'm not that hardcore about my build orders) but this tool you've created seems absolutely incredible! GREAT work!
I'll post here if I do happen to find any bugs!
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Wow this is amazing!...It really helps to visualize why you want to build things in what order. I mean with a 15 Hatch 15 Gas 15 Pool, if done perfect shows that hatch and pool finish at the exact same time. It also lets me look to make sure that overlords finish with larva injects.
An idea for a future feature: Allow to compare builds, maybe allow for a zoom in/out function so you can see more of the build at once. This could let you put in an FFE build for Protoss and see where the weak points are and then create a snipe build with Zerg, or something like that anyways.
Its awesome though, so awesome.
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I think I found a bug, since I can't morph HTs into Archons: only the DT+DT combination works.
It also would be nice to have a feature to "kill" units: when I thinking about my planner I had the idea that it would be useful to simulate events like "what if I try to push and everything gets killed, can I safely transition into something else", or "what if I get harassed and lose a lot of workers".
Regardless, it's really a brilliant tool.
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Thanks for the bug report and feedback. I also noticed some zerg upgrades lack the hive and lair requirements. It will be fixed shortly. Killing of units and workers is something under consideration.
Comparing builds, nice graphs and various output formats is definitely something I will be working on in the future.
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Wow, just wow. Keep it up pretty darn helpful.
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Very amazing and nifty tool. Just tinkered around with it a bit and if it gets polished a bit more (if we find all the bugs and report back to you), I can see myself and other players having some great use out of it. Makes figuring out builds a lot easier via an oversight.
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So, wait... how exactly do you get the extractor trick to work correctly?
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If extractor trick doesn't work it means you don't have larva/minerals to build another drone during the three seconds. You then need to delay the extractor trick (by inserting pause before) until it does work.
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This tool just made my entire brain smile.
Three cheers!
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I haven't had the time to test it properly, but from the few seconds I have played with it it look awesome. Great work, I hope you are open to suggestions and willing to maintain your project. Big props. Do you wish the feedback to be written in this thread or do you plan to use some other medium?
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This looks very promising, thank you for this awesome program. I can see how this will become a staple tool for any serious competitor.
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Another Thing I just noticed is that there is no option to take drones off gas. For a speedling expand build you often want to remove drones after 100gas, but I can't seem to figure out if that option is built in or not.
Thanks again.
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On September 01 2011 00:30 DeltaOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 00:04 Garnet wrote:
anyway to enlarge the main window? I have to scroll down for zerg buildings. Are you talking about having more than like 20 tracks? I didn't think this would be very common. Can you give an example?
When I have more than 15 rows for example.
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On September 01 2011 01:27 Fydor wrote:
Another Thing I just noticed is that there is no option to take drones off gas. For a speedling expand build you often want to remove drones after 100gas, but I can't seem to figure out if that option is built in or not.
Thanks again.
Just click on "Mineral Drone" to put gas workers over to minerals again.
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On September 01 2011 00:00 Bromazepam wrote:
Oh my god, I feel like you hacked my brain.
I was working on a planner EXACTLY like this one. Up to the smallest details as far as I can see. The only difference is that mine wasn't gonna be web-based.
Well, gg, I guess I don't need to complete mine anymore :D
What the hell? GG???
You should join forces and do a GREATER planner. I'm certain that both have diferent ideas that could help each other.
DO IT! ^^
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On September 01 2011 01:29 Garnet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 00:30 DeltaOne wrote:On September 01 2011 00:04 Garnet wrote:
anyway to enlarge the main window? I have to scroll down for zerg buildings. Are you talking about having more than like 20 tracks? I didn't think this would be very common. Can you give an example? When I have more than 15 rows for example.
For big builds, this could be a potential problem. I think the best way to fix this problem is to bundle together actions that happens simultaneously, like "8 x Roach". I've already done this with gas workers to reduce vertical space. Thanks for the feedback.
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Great Job! Now integrate it with a build order finder and make it possible to compare builds =D jk Star of contribution for this one incoming i hope
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Very well made tool. Definitely going to be a theorycrafting distraction while at work.
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Another idea I had was to give the planner the ability to mark the amount of mineral/gas points a particular expansion has, and if they're gold.
I don't know how you deal with the workers sharing the patches, but I noticed that with one base and 24 probes the mineral income was 815/minute, which is close to Liquipedia's reported average (816) for a saturated base, and adding one more increased it only by 15. So I suppose you're already considering all bases as 8 mineral/2 gas.
Edit: oh, also, you supported the macro hatchery but not the macro OC/defensive PF. While unusual in a planned build, I think it might be worth adding.
On September 01 2011 01:35 EdSlyB wrote:
What the hell? GG???
You should join forces and do a GREATER planner. I'm certain that both have diferent ideas that could help each other.
DO IT! ^^
Heh, I honestly have very little to add to it. I wasn't joking when I said this was exactly as I had enivisoned it. Besides the two things I already posted, I've got nothing else.
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Beautiful. I was actually working on my own build order simulator, but yours is much, much better, and I will certainly use it.
A suggestion is to make the simulator map dependent - use base distances from main to main, main to natural, main to door. Sometimes using the distance for scouting and walling in is essential in some mus, like tvz and pvz for walling in and scouting for 6 pool, tvt walling in (in the current "metagame"), so you would need to know when to send the scv / probe to the door to build pylons, supply depots, etc.
But as previously stated it has some bugs, which are easily fixed, and it is actually very easy to use.
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"Send out a scv" mean you scout an this scv's income is not taken in consideration anymore, right ?
Anyway, this is AWESOME. Try to output the format so it's YABOT compatible and you'll be a hero <3
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It's cool, but I'd like to see it spit out the build order in a nice supply-based list.
And also see the supply number on the main bottom pane. Very nice so far though.
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@Bromazepam: Gold expansions and non-patch CCs are definitely something I will implement.
@MrCon: Yes that is right. If you want you can return with the SCV making it mine (minerals) again after some time. You can also use this to simulate worker transfers to expansions or building things far away.
@Ownos: Some export features are under way including a supply-based list and YABOT. I will think about supply numbers in the main pane.
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This seems to be a good plan...
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Edit:
God, I'm an idiot. It's because I forgot to build supply depots...haha, you're tool should just KNOW when I want to build supply depots 
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Very nice, I've wanted something like this for a long time. It does feel a bit clumsy at times with moving the time around and deleting things (in firefox) but otherwise very good and useful. I'm not really sure how it works with transferring workers. How do you handle mineral mining rates with different saturations, are you assuming optimal? etc...?
Also, I would prefer something other then click to delete. Click should take me to the time right after that thing is built, imho. It can get confusing where/what time i want to be at based on the list.
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On September 01 2011 04:52 Ownos wrote:
Doesn't seem to be a way to put multiple chrono boosts on my carrier though.
For multiple chronos, put multiple chronoboosts before the carrier. It will show negative energy but don't mind that. (It's reserving the energy for the carrier making sure you don't spend it elsewhere.) However you should be able to put at least 3 chronobooosts on it, but it only allows 2. Will need to check that.
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People like you make the world awesome!!!! I was so bored at work but now I can basically play starcraft 2 while Im here!!
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I think I found a glitch. It seems to think that a tech lab researching an upgrade cannot also support a tech lab dependent unit at the same time.
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Sickest thing ever. Holy shit. And beautiful interface.
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@ indigoawareness: The simulation will always spread your workers for optimal mining depending on how many bases you have. For one base that means a soft cap at 16 workers and a hard cap at 24 workers. As soon as your expansion is finished it will transfer workers but it does not currently take into account the distance between your bases as it is impossible for it to know how many you want to transfer. If you want to simulate a probe transfer you will need to do this manually by the sending out worker action and returning with them at a later point.
@ Sunrunner: Thanks for the report. That is indeed a bug. I will fix it shortly.
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Found a small problem, the planner doesn't register that you can build a Marauder while researching conc shells, and instead queues them.
Other than that, great tool 
Edit: nevermind, looks like someone spotted it a little before me .
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On September 01 2011 05:10 Sunrunner wrote:
I think I found a glitch. It seems to think that a tech lab researching an upgrade cannot also support a tech lab dependent unit at the same time.
Ahhhhhh, so that's why my Marauder kept getting delayed until Combat Shield was done. Good find.
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One little thing I can think of personally is being able to swap tech labs/reactors, i dont know how hard that is to implement but just something ive noticed. Having a blast so far though
*also im not sure if the reactor works properly? I have a reactor on factory but can only make 1 hellion at a time *
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You cannot explicitly swap addons at this time. The simulation does that for you. For now if you want to simulate hovering around with buildings you can do this by adding some pause.
Building in reactories have special actions so that the simulation knows you want to utilize the reactory and not two single baracks for example.
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On September 01 2011 03:38 Bromazepam wrote:Another idea I had was to give the planner the ability to mark the amount of mineral/gas points a particular expansion has, and if they're gold. I don't know how you deal with the workers sharing the patches, but I noticed that with one base and 24 probes the mineral income was 815/minute, which is close to Liquipedia's reported average (816) for a saturated base, and adding one more increased it only by 15. So I suppose you're already considering all bases as 8 mineral/2 gas. Edit: oh, also, you supported the macro hatchery but not the macro OC/defensive PF. While unusual in a planned build, I think it might be worth adding. Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 01:35 EdSlyB wrote:
What the hell? GG???
You should join forces and do a GREATER planner. I'm certain that both have diferent ideas that could help each other.
DO IT! ^^ Heh, I honestly have very little to add to it. I wasn't joking when I said this was exactly as I had enivisoned it. Besides the two things I already posted, I've got nothing else.
Still, you should do a brainstorm session. Two minds think better than one. 
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Hm, I usually have one SCV constantly building depots. How do I simulate that?
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This is great, been messing with it all afternoon. how do you do add-on switches?
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Awesome tool!
Although it seems that Firefox 3.6.21 has some small issues with. For example as I delete certain elements they stay in the tracker to the right of the clock-symbol, not longer showing smart-info but still their symbol.
In addition is there a way to chronoboost certain Tech at specific time? (for example boost my Warpgate-Tech right before the end and use all CB before on probes)
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This is truly awesome.
On September 01 2011 05:10 Sunrunner wrote:
I think I found a glitch. It seems to think that a tech lab researching an upgrade cannot also support a tech lab dependent unit at the same time.
Not sure if the bug I found is the same as yours, but it won't let me build a reaper and research concussion shells at the same time.
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On September 01 2011 06:09 enigmaticcam wrote:This is truly awesome. Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 05:10 Sunrunner wrote:
I think I found a glitch. It seems to think that a tech lab researching an upgrade cannot also support a tech lab dependent unit at the same time. Not sure if the bug I found is the same as yours, but it won't let me build a reaper and research concussion shells at the same time.
Yup, same.
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@Sunrunner: When you are building anything as terran the simulator will temporarily remove one mineral worker. So what you want is already simulated.
@HenryGale: You do not need to do addon switches at this time. You can build a tech lab on a barracks and then use it on a starport for example. It does not take the switching time into account. However if you really want to simulate this you can add pauses.
@Xanatoss: I will look into the Firefox issues. Thanks for the report. (In general I find that Chrome handles the site fastest.) Also you cannot at this time do chronoboosting other than at the start of actions. I've simplified some things like this so that you do not need to explicit target actions on a specific building or item.
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Great work, with the help of the TL community the bugs should be removed soon enough and everyone will have a great timesink at their workplace
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On September 01 2011 06:14 DeltaOne wrote:
@Sunrunner: When you are building anything as terran the simulator will temporarily remove one mineral worker. So what you want is already simulated.
What I mean is that I always build another depot when a depot finishes. Right now, if I set the cursor to the end of one depot and click on depot it puts the new depot in whenever I have 100 minerals, even if it is before the other depot finishes.
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I see. In that case you need to adjust it by adding pause.
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This should be the default build order presentation method on TLPD!
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Good job DeltaOne! The interface is just amazing and a thumbs up for simplicity.
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@Xanatoss: I will look into the Firefox issues. Thanks for the report. (In general I find that Chrome handles the site fastest.) Also you cannot at this time do chronoboosting other than at the start of actions. I've simplified some things like this so that you do not need to explicit target actions on a specific building or item.
Thx man!
Btw my intuitive approach to this problem was to stack pause before CB; if you ever consider a solution to this.
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When you research siege you can't build tanks, it says the techlab is being used.
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On September 01 2011 06:41 Xanatoss wrote:
Btw my intuitive approach to this problem was to stack pause before CB; if you ever consider a solution to this.
Yea that should be the intuitive solution. Thanks for the tip.
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Poking in to say this looks great and I'm looking forward to playing around with it in moments of downtime during my schedule. Great work!
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I love you, I was able to optimise my build a bit.
TvP
5 marines 2 maruders and conc shells rdy at a bit before 5:00
stim started at around 4:45
command center placed at around 5:20
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On September 01 2011 06:49 MrCon wrote:
When you research siege you can't build tanks, it says the techlab is being used.
I'm aware of the issue. I will fix it as soon as possible.
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Really neat tool, very intuitive use!
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On September 01 2011 06:53 HoMM wrote:I love you, I was able to optimise my build a bit. TvP 5 marines 2 maruders and conc shells rdy at a bit before 5:00 stim started at around 4:45 command center placed at around 5:20
I am probably using the tool wrong, but I can't even begin to figure out how you did that I think the tech lab bug is throwing me off.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
You are a genius. Thanks so much for this program, I will use it furiously
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This is way better than any other build order tool I've seen. Once you squash that tech lab bug, I foresee spending a lot of time with this.
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The tech lab issue should now be fixed as well as the lair/hive requirement issue. Let me know if there are any further problem regarding this. Thank you all for your help.
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HOLY SHIT. The ONLY thing that needs to (ideally) be implemented is an easier way to shift timings on buildings manually. Zerg gas timings usually aren't at the first 25 minerals, it's based on when we want Lingspeed to finish.
So fucking incredible for the most part. Waaaayyy easier to work with than haploid's and more accurate timings for the first few minutes, as great as Haploid's is.
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On September 01 2011 07:33 DeltaOne wrote:
The tech lab issue should now be fixed as well as the lair/hive requirement issue. Let me know if there are any further problem regarding this. Thank you all for your help.
Works perfectly now, great job.
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Awesome. Quick fix Delta.
As a side note, do you mind if I grab your sc2.js file and poke around? No plans to use it for anything, but as a software developer, I have this terrible itch to look at the internals of things.
I see you compressed it for line bandwidth purposes, but Visual Studio will uncompress it for me.
Just want to ask before I go poking around your code.
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Is there an option to salvage bunkers anywhere? I can't seem to find one.
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you just blew my mind
wicked job, keep up the good work!!
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Sadly this isn't useful at all to zerg players at its current state because it cannot handle asynchronous larva inject timings. In other words, If I insert a larva inject command after a drone morph command, it will wait to execute the inject after the drone finishes even though it could have done the inject before or during the drone morph.
Same thing goes for injects, if I queue a million spawn larvas one after the other, any drone morph commands I place will be executed after the spawn larva is completed i.e. synchronously
Anyway, nice job so far. I hope you fix these issues and keep up the good work!
Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZaaajaaaaaaaaoAoFddaaaoDjacahhuDeeffaajaaaffffffaajaaaaaaaaaaajaaaa
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@Sleight: For now the only way to shift timings is to insert pauses. In future I might implement drag and drop for actions as well.
@Brainling: Poke around if you must, but please leave it at that.
@ShadowDrgn: Salvage Bunkers, not yet implemented. Will add to todo list.
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On September 01 2011 08:02 RodYan wrote:
Sadly this isn't useful at all to zerg players at its current state because it cannot handle asynchronous larva inject timings. In other words, If I insert a larva inject command after a drone morph command, it will wait to execute the inject after the drone finishes even though it could have done the inject before or during the drone morph.
Same thing goes for injects, if I queue a million spawn larvas one after the other, any drone morph commands I place will be executed after the spawn larva is completed i.e. synchronously
Anyway, nice job so far. I hope you fix these issues and keep up the good work!
I'm not seing this behavior. I can do larva injects, morphing queens and drones simultaneously. Can you give me an example build?
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On September 01 2011 08:09 DeltaOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 08:02 RodYan wrote:
Sadly this isn't useful at all to zerg players at its current state because it cannot handle asynchronous larva inject timings. In other words, If I insert a larva inject command after a drone morph command, it will wait to execute the inject after the drone finishes even though it could have done the inject before or during the drone morph.
Same thing goes for injects, if I queue a million spawn larvas one after the other, any drone morph commands I place will be executed after the spawn larva is completed i.e. synchronously
Anyway, nice job so far. I hope you fix these issues and keep up the good work! I'm not seing this behavior. I can do larva injects, morphing queens and drones simultaneously. Can you give me an example build?
http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZaaajaaaaaaaaoAoFddaaaoDjacahhuDeeffaajaaaffffffaajaaaaaaaaaaajaaaa
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This is the correct behavior.
Note if you tell the simulator to make multiple larva injects in a row, it won't continue executing your build until those has been started. So you need to put things in the correct order, like:
larva inject - drone - other stuff - larva inject - more stuff - more stuff - larva inject - etc
Just like you would play it out in a game. Hope it helps.
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This is a really great tool. With some more advanced features, it could become a must-have for every sc2 player. Keep it up!
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Im having a hard time chronoboosting warpgate research 5 times beginning from 3:29 (2 chronos used on probes earlier). it only uses 3 chronoboosts on the cyber, and will only accept 5 chronoboosts if the cyber is built after 3:29.
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Pretty cool. The UI could use a little work, and some things are weird/hard to follow (like switching add-ons), but otherwise, it's really cool.
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On September 01 2011 08:22 Not_That wrote:
Im having a hard time chronoboosting warpgate research 5 times beginning from 3:29 (2 chronos used on probes earlier). it only uses 3 chronoboosts on the cyber, and will only accept 5 chronoboosts if the cyber is built after 3:29.
I'm aware of some problems regarding multiple chronoboosts. Working on a fix. Thanks.
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On September 01 2011 08:15 DeltaOne wrote:
This is the correct behavior.
Note if you tell the simulator to make multiple larva injects in a row, it won't continue executing your build until those has been started. So you need to put things in the correct order, like:
larva inject - drone - other stuff - larva inject - more stuff - more stuff - larva inject - etc
Just like you would play it out in a game. Hope it helps.
Customers say bug. Developers say feature
I probably won't be using your tool for my Z timings because the interface is a bit too clunky w/r to lining up injects and moving things around for comparison. For what I want to do, atm I think it may be faster to just run an in-game test.
Don't take this the wrong way though, it's still a great tool. You did a really great job with it, it's just not what I need.
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whoah, using your program i realized that you get your cyber core built 12 seconds later if you pylon scout and 8 seconds later if you gateway scout/ nice job with the program
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One more thing I noticed.
IE doesn't save the URL for build orders properly like it does in chrome. Not sure if you can actually do anything to fix this (I'm not a web dev) but I thought i'd bring it up.
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Ok this is AWESOME! Awesome tool!
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On September 01 2011 08:36 RodYan wrote:
One more thing I noticed.
IE doesn't save the URL for build orders properly like it does in chrome. Not sure if you can actually do anything to fix this (I'm not a web dev) but I thought i'd bring it up.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll fix it as soon as possible.
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looks awesome, although i don't use builds but just what i like at the time. this might chance my mind and get me in top 50 masters:D
thx for the work you put/are putting in this
maybe some kind of working together with sc2gears to see how much your replays go close and how close to the planned build
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On September 01 2011 08:44 ShadowDrgn wrote:
In fact, the 2x marines always seem to disappear from builds, but 2x hellions work fine. Just a small bug?
Yes, thank you. A small bug. 2 x Marines and Phoenix does not save properly. Will be fixed next upload.
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Is there a way to remove drones from the extractor like in the speedling expand build where all drones are removed from gas after researching metabolic boost?
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Extractor trick doesn't appear to give my drone back.. it appears to take a drone away..
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On September 01 2011 09:01 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
Is there a way to remove drones from the extractor like in the speedling expand build where all drones are removed from gas after researching metabolic boost?
Just click 3 times on "Mineral Drone" (top left) right after you started researching metabolic boost and that should do it.
It also seems like the extractor trick does not work atm, or I am doing something wrong.
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this is sick, just played a virtual game on it, worked as intended. Thank's for this!
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One good thing to implement would be to have a "always produce workers" for terran or protoss (not chronoboosted in that case or too complex to implement), with the supply depot auto inserted in the build so they are never any supplyblocks.
In fact, you shouldn't have to ever input manually a supply/pylon/overlord, the planner should calculate those itself (and have options for "building x : non stop production of unit y")
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This tool is excellent; the layout is much better than others I have used. I hope the numbers are right.
I especially like how I can drop a drone scout in different places in a build and instantly see how it affects everything else, and moving over the timeline lets me check idle larvae numbers.
Nice work.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Extractor trick works perfectly, it builds the Extractor for 3 seconds and then cancels it, you have to "pause" until you have 75 resources, then you extractor trick and build a drone at the same time.
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There seems to be a bug where the first gas increment after a change to the number of gas workers is 8 instead of 4?
For example:
Build extractor, put 3 workers on gas. The first timer increments gas by 8, when the return from the first worker should be 4. The second increment is 12 (??), then 8 and then 4 (??). Why is this?
http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZoDc
See the gas resource level increments from 0:40 to 0:55.
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On September 01 2011 09:47 kawaiiryuko wrote:There seems to be a bug where the first gas increment after a change to the number of gas workers is 8 instead of 4? For example: Build extractor, put 3 workers on gas. The first timer increments gas by 8, when the return from the first worker should be 4. The second increment is 12 (??), then 8 and then 4 (??). Why is this? http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZoDcSee the gas resource level increments from 0:40 to 0:55.
I think some small fluctuations in the amount of resources mined over small timespans are normal, since I doubt the program simulates workers queuing up.
However, I am noticing an inconsistency in the gas/minute results: Liquipedia reports 101-114 gas/min on a 3-worker geyser. In the example you posted in the first minute 104 gas is collected, in the subsequent ones it's 116, which is above the possible maximum, even for a 4-worker geyser.
I believe that from time to time the algorithm makes workers overlap slightly inside the geyser.
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One request..
Any chance you can make it scale with the resolution of the browser? Would be really great to be able to take advantage of my wide screen. Otherwise, this is Amazing!
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Awesome tool !
#edit, nvm found the awnser
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Beautiful, man! I love this thing! And I love you, too! Amazing job!
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Pure Awesomeness! Amazing job TS!
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First post on Team Liquid. Loved this build order planner and just thought I should pop up with a double extractor trick in the 7 Roach Rush.
http://sc2planner.com/#Zaaaap19oEoEaajoFaaaaaoDachjfaaoHjlllllll
And to reiterate:
On September 01 2011 01:15. DeltaOne wrote:
If extractor trick doesn't work it means you don't have larva/minerals to build another drone during the three seconds. You then need to delay the extractor trick (by inserting pause before) until it does work.
Just select an extractor trick (or two) after you get 10/10 drones and then make 1 drone (or two)-- ignore that it's gray because of insufficient food-- then move the green line marker backwards until it is placed before the extractors. Add wait/time until the drones become colored and that's how it works. Correct me if I'm wrong and yes, it has been stated before, just stating again to make it clearer.
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Great resource! Now lets collect some nice builds here!
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pretty complex stuff you got here. Got lost trying to figure out how to use it, but it looks really neat and innovative! I like it!
Furthermore, the visualization of builds this way helps add to the appreciation for the strategic depth involved with SC2.
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Very impressive! Good job! : )
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very nice, works almost perfectly for the zerg and protoss (yesterday you could research adrenal glands on hatchery tech , but that might been fixed and in that case, completely perfect), but have anyone mentioned the fact that there is no option for terrans to switch addons between buildings?
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Wow! Great Tool !!
Gonna play around with it and see what i can do
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omfg. you are awesome, my friend.
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the tool is top notch. just haven't found out yet how to share or save the build orders. If i understand it correctly, the information is stored in the URL, so it should change with every change in the build order which is not happening. So if there are any issues with firefox or if i just don't get it right, then please let me know.
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There seems to be some problem for some browsers to update the URL correctly. I'm looking into this.
Regarding addons, quoting myself:
Addon switching is handled automatically. For example if you build a banshee and you have a tech lab it assumes you have switched them even if you built the techlab on your barracks. If you want to simulate hovering around with buildings, use pause.
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This is really great, thanks for doing this. Hope it turns out to be even better with updates!
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Found another Problem with CB. Boosting Warpgates at the beginning of transformation does not carry over to immediate warpins.
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Thank you. That should be easy to fix.
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any Terran players put detailed builds in here yet? please post!
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Some more fixes now live:
• 2x marines / Phoenix are now saved properly.
• Hovering over Chronoboost no longer shows undefined as error.
• You can no longer research nitro packs without a factory.
• Chronoboost now carry over from morphing gateway to warping units.
• Implemented gold expansions. Miners will always prioritize gold expansion.
• You can now morph high templars as well as dark templars into Archons.
• You can now build commandcenter and nexus in base without expanding.
• You can now salvage Bunkers.
• Made center window a bit larger.
Please let me know if there are any issues regarding these fixes. (If errors are still present, please try first empty browser cache.)
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I'm still having trouble with tech labs. For instance, if I have three barracks and a factory on the field, and I want to put a tech lab on the factory, it won't let me produce three marines at the same time as the tech lab, and I think it's because it thinks the tech lab is on the barracks.
Example link here: http://www.sc2planner.com/#TaaaaoEaaoFaoFaajoCoEjjafjjaoEajjaoAjjaoDoDajfjoEaccjjoFaoIajjoCajfjoPaoEjfaaoPjiKaauZ
Just past the 6:40 mark, I have three barracks and one factory. Of those, I'm building two tech labs at the same time, one for a barracks and one for the factory. But as you can see, it won't let me produce more than one marine until one of the tech labs finishes, as it thinks both tech labs are on a barracks. Am I doing something wrong?
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You need to use the "Tech Lab on Factory" action if you want to build the tech lab on the factory instead of the barracks.
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On September 02 2011 01:47 DeltaOne wrote:
You need to use the "Tech Lab on Factory" action if you want to build the tech lab on the factory instead of the barracks.
Oh my bad, I didn't even see that. Thanks!
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such a fantastic (and fun) tool!
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Wow, that's mad!
I'm amazed things like this and that evolution chamber program don't impact the pro scene more.
(Or maybe they do and we don't hear about it?)
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There are still some bugs with tech labs, but I hope to fix them soon.
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Hey, this is really cool!
I think a feature I would like to see is a search function for different BO's. That way if someone saved a BO as something like "15 hatch 15 pool" then I would just search for it and it would come up, and then I could make my own edits and save it myself. That way you wouldn't have to deal with creating the easy openers and you could focus on midgame BOs.
Or as another example I could search "1:1:1 all-in" (assuming someone saved it like that) and learn how to beat up toss players. ^_^
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This
is
so
AMAZING!
You sir, have literally saved me hours and DAYS of 7-Minute-Yabot-Runs aswell as tons of calculations!
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MIND BLOWN
Jesus, this is so cool, awesome work bro
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is there a way to see other people's build?
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CB transformation into warpin does work, but production into transformation not yet ^^
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Wow, so sleek so cool! Just gotta get the hang of chronoboost ... and estimating when probes return from scouting? I don't know ... maybe the excess of minerals it says I have before I have it is just my probe going out to warp it in and returning.
Awesome job! Maintain this sucker / consider adding PTR (ex. Rax time / blink time) since I know we're all testing out new builds / timings for new patch the old fashioned way.
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@theang123: By sharing builds on forums such as this. Just copy/paste the url.
@Xanatoss Oh I see I introduced a new bug by fixing that. Will fix new bug shortly.
@Danglars Patch changes already live in sc2planner.
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I love how organized it looks. Very nice job and already very helpful.... Hopefully the translation to in game is as flawless as this thing makes it seem
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Wow this looks pretty slick.
you should add a add to your site so you can get some income <3
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Really awesome layout, I need to share some build orders with some friends and this might be the best way.
Thanks,
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Another Issue with CB (seems like they chase me ^^)
Double CB Immortal + Double CB Immortal immediatly after ignores the 3rd and 4th CB. Guess it has something to do with overlapping timings (2nd CB still running at the beginning of new Immo, while 3rd should start).
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I have now fixed some issues regarding chronoboost and warpgate morphing. Please empty cache and see if it not works correctly now.
If not, could you post a link to a situation where the chronoboost fails Xanatoss?
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If you macro up three pairs of lings and attack by the 3 minute mark you might have a chance of breaking the record without drone rushing. Might.
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Great tool. I have trouble thinking past 34 supply mark as zerg and I think this could definitely help. Also love that I can play with it on my iPhone when I'm on the go. Props.
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On September 02 2011 03:48 DeltaOne wrote:
I have now fixed some issues regarding chronoboost and warpgate morphing. Please empty cache and see if it not works correctly now.
If not, could you post a link to a situation where the chronoboost fails Xanatoss?
CB Production into Transformation seems to work aswell now.
The overlap issue is still there. Cache cleared. Here is an example:
http://www.sc2planner.com/#PaaaoCaffaaaoDaoBaoCacaoFaaoBajuAcaoCahoJffwffw
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Yes this is another bug I'm aware of. I will fix these errors as soon as I get some time over.
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Oops. Try refresh now. Should work I hope.
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Terrific tool! Thank you very much! You should at least add a paypal donate button.
I've found a small bug. The Armory is not a prerequisite for the Thor (just the Factory with the tech lab).
Thanks again!
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On September 03 2011 02:22 Tonyx wrote:
I've found a small bug. The Armory is not a prerequisite for the Thor (just the Factory with the tech lab).
Thank you. Will be fixed next upload.
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Cant belive this thread droped so fast.
Fortunately found a minor bug to bump it :>
Sentries do not require a CyCore yet.
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Maybe I'm just stupid but while just doing a simple 4-Gate I can't figure out how to just non-stop Chrono the WG research, Why am I not allowed to pick what I want to chrono? It's like it thinks I'm chrono'ing the stalker.
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You have to stack all chronoboosts determined for the same unit/upgrade before that unit/upgrade. Currently there is a small issue with CB that you can only stack as much CB as there are available if you boost nonstop from the beginning of that unit/upgrade. The Planner is smart enough to take additional generated energy during boosting into calculation but it is currently not possible to boost an unit/upgrade at certain times, like at the the end of warpgate-tech to synchronize it with your gateways.
Here is a template for 1 Gas 4 Gate with 20 Probes:
http://www.sc2planner.com/#PaaaoCaffaaaoDdaoBaoCacaoFagaaffffuAjjoDoDoDoCoOoOoOoOqqqqoCmmmm
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Holy fuck, this is insanely awesome.
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On September 05 2011 08:26 Xanatoss wrote:You have to stack all chronoboosts determined for the same unit/upgrade before that unit/upgrade. Currently there is a small issue with CB that you can only stack as much CB as there are available if you boost nonstop from the beginning of that unit/upgrade. The Planner is smart enough to take additional generated energy during boosting into calculation but it is currently not possible to boost an unit/upgrade at certain times, like at the the end of warpgate-tech to synchronize it with your gateways. Here is a template for 1 Gas 4 Gate with 20 Probes: http://www.sc2planner.com/#PaaaoCaffaaaoDdaoBaoCacaoFagaaffffuAjjoDoDoDoCoOoOoOoOqqqqoCmmmm
Supposed to be gate on 12 cyber on 16 fwiw.
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hey DeltaOne, i was wondering if you have a "key table" for all the characters used in the URL generation, if its ok with you i would like to give this info to CarbonTwelve (creater of SCBuildOrder).
related thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168348¤tpage=54
and hopefully he will add support for an sc2planner url compatible output. also could you have the queens special abilities not interfere with the timings of anything else. hard to explain, for example if i have a bunch of injects already lined up, and i'm just adding drones, i have to be careful where i place my drones checking they dont push the injects further forward, when i see this happen i then have to place that next drone after the injection to stop this from occurring. if its possible could you have the injection timings work independently from drone production.
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Would it be possible to unlock additional gases as soon as an additional CC/Hatch/Nexus is building, opposed to as soon as it finishes? (in order to synchronize their completion to get additional gas asap)
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@ Stone: I'll add a key table to the website for import/export reasons when I get the time. I'm also in progress of writing a faq and news, as well as fix some bugs and implement some export functions. For your other question: I'll think about it, just like implementing constant scv and marine production etc, but I will add it only when I have a neat solution to it, and if people really wants it.
@ Xanatoss: I'll add gas before nexus next upload. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Awesome work! A few bugs here and there that other users have mentioned, but wow, a lot of effort went into this and it even has the recent 1.4 patch timing for barracks, etc.
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Dominican Republic39 Posts
MIND Blowed!! Weel done man!
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God I love it so much 8]
2 Questions:
Do workers use a fixed average coefficient for Minerals/Minute - Calculation or is the diminishing efficency dependend on how much workers I have? In addition, does the planner allocate workers automatically for optimal mineral-saturation (like 2x10 workers on 2 bases instead of 20 workers on one and 0 on other, for greater income), because it seems like this for gas (3 workers on 1 Gas net less income than 3 on 2 Gas).
2nd one is, do you think it is possible and useful to implement a "accumulated ressources gathered" Display? I need that for several considerations but have to calculate it on my own atm, which is a bit cumbersome (?).
Keep up the great work! :D
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Yes it automatically allocate workers optimally with reduced efficiency after 2 workers per mineral/gas patch like you would expect. So in your example if you have two assimilators and three gas workers it will put 2 workers in one and the third worker in the other automatically, thus getting maximum income.
I'll add minerals per second, total minerals and similar stats in a future version for sure.
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This is a very good tool.
I found some bug.
Reator barack don't give additionnal production. 
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Ooops, i didnt saw the 2 Marines button.
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cant figure out how to add multiple chrono onto a forge upgrade (adding the chrono as the energy becomes available), tried stacking the chrono before starting the upgrade but it pushes the upgrade further down the timeline. will post pics if required.
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Wow, awesome. Thanks for putting the effort into making this. I've been looking for something like this since beta, and all prior attempts have fallen short.
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I really love your tool. If you solve the problem of chronoboosting at a specific time i will probably stop playing starcraft outside my browser at all.
Keep up the great work!
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This is a great tool! Thanks for making it.
A couple of ideas for improvements: I would be nice if things could be planned in parallel. For instance larva injects should generally be made as soon as possible, but when you are changing around in the build order, you have to rearrange larva injects afterwards. The same goes for buildings/upgrades where the timing is based on gas. You could add a symbol in the url to mean as soon as possible, this symbol could be added as standard to larva injects.
Another nice feature: It would be great to be able to plan two builds in parallel, where one build is shifted with a variable amount of time, corresponding to the time it takes to get to the enemy base. Then you could compare your build to a counter-build or the build you are trying to counter.
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This has probably been brought up before, but would it be possible to stretch out the main window a little bit (or well, more than a little xD)? As it is you can only see like 2 minutes of a build without scrolling - if the window was a bit wider it would give users a much more convenient overview of things.
Anyways, awesome tool, I wanted something like this for a long long time as I'm often on a PC that can't even run SC2.
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Love the tool. Great work.
One question: Has it been updated yet with 1.4 changes? Most notably the rax build time?
Edit: nm, checked liquipedia. Planner seems to be up to date.
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I fucking love it. I only made an account at team liquid to tell you this. Then i thought "this thing is awesome" post are very unnecessary. So I have got a question: Is there any way to print it, or put a short form on my second screen, so I can use it ingame?
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This had me addicted so fast, damn you!
Is this some kinda university work or just for funsies?
Great job anyways!
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What do you think about modifying this to do a side-by-side build comparison as well? For a simple example, you could compare a 9OL opening to the extractor trick, and measure the total resources mined, to determine exactly how much more efficient a build is...
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This is an awesome tool.. Thanks for taking the time to make it. You should def add a donate via paypal button..Great work..
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Is there any way to remove drones from gas? Also chronoboosts are difficult to use on a precise timing.
Other than that I really like it so far
edit: Ooohhh.. now i noticed it... mineral drone is the right thing to click to remove a gas drone -.- well
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How can you take workers out of gas? I couldn't find a possibility to do this
Edit: Sorry never mind, just found it out.
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how save the url? when I do a build the url always is www.sc2planner.com/ # T and nothing else, then when I copy and pasted the address in explorer not recorded any step of my build. How can I do?.
thanks and sorry for my poor english
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Holy Shit...This is awesome and love this to play around with some zerg timings I am working on. Thanks for sharing sir!!!!
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This to is really nice!I was wondering: is there a way to run it offline? I guess visiting the site at work too offen is not very much appreciated^^
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your Country52797 Posts
Bookmarking, ty sir.
edit: wrong code rofl
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your Country52797 Posts
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On November 12 2011 21:52 rodriwinner wrote:how save the url? when I do a build the url always is www.sc2planner.com/ # T and nothing else, then when I copy and pasted the address in explorer not recorded any step of my build. How can I do?. thanks and sorry for my poor english
try a different browser?
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your Country52797 Posts
Will there be an update for HotS?
And how do I take guys OUT of gas?
nvm, figured it out
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I don't know how to swap buildings on to add ons. I.e. Make tech lab on factory and swap with starport.
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mmm... centrifugal hooks upgrade not required lair.
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This is awesome and just dropped buy to tell you how cool you are.
Thanks for this!
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this deserves far more acclaim than it has received. great job!
I was just curious if there was a compilation of builds?
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On September 03 2011 17:57 DeltaOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 02:22 Tonyx wrote:
I've found a small bug. The Armory is not a prerequisite for the Thor (just the Factory with the tech lab).
Thank you. Will be fixed next upload.
Actually, he's completely wrong. I'm surprised no one in this thread picked it up and let you 'fix' something that was already correct. Seems like a pretty obvious thing to me.
Proof
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Thor
http://sc2armory.com/game/terran/units/thor
Or just playing the game as Terran (lol)
Edit: oh yeah, obligatory you are cool, great job :-p
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I think this is a great tool.
Feature request: a text box to permit you to label a build and any variations you might be comparing.
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you should turn this into an online game for people who need even more ways to waste time at work, lol
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On November 28 2011 11:33 FirstGear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 17:57 DeltaOne wrote:On September 03 2011 02:22 Tonyx wrote:
I've found a small bug. The Armory is not a prerequisite for the Thor (just the Factory with the tech lab).
Thank you. Will be fixed next upload. Actually, he's completely wrong. I'm surprised no one in this thread picked it up and let you 'fix' something that was already correct. Seems like a pretty obvious thing to me. Proof http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Thorhttp://sc2armory.com/game/terran/units/thorOr just playing the game as Terran (lol) Edit: oh yeah, obligatory you are cool, great job :-p
He was saying that on the website it doesn't have it as a pre-req, but in-game it is. Not the other way around. Before you reply and be an ass about it, read his post thoroughly.
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Please Pretty Please, show the larvaes/larvae-block, it's the most important thing to consider for optimised Zerg BO.
Right now, you have to check the timeline second by second to see when/if a larvae block occur.
You could put rectangles under or over the timeline to see the number of larvaes (if 3, then a red background rectangle)
If multiple hatcheries, one line per hatchery.
For instance, a 9over 11 pool http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZaaajaaoFa has larvae block from 1:32 to 1:40
For instance, a 8pool http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZaaoFaaj has larvae block from 0:32 to 1:06
Other than that, pretty nice tool thank you very much sir
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On November 29 2011 21:16 RobiTL wrote:Please Pretty Please, show the larvaes/larvae-block, it's the most important thing to consider for optimised Zerg BO. Right now, you have to check the timeline second by second to see when/if a larvae block occur. You could put rectangles under or over the timeline to see the number of larvaes (if 3, then a red background rectangle) If multiple hatcheries, one line per hatchery. For instance, a 9over 11 pool http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZaaajaaoFa has larvae block from 1:32 to 1:40 For instance, a 8pool http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZaaoFaaj has larvae block from 0:32 to 1:06 Other than that, pretty nice tool thank you very much sir
Not sure if I misunderstand, but the ammount or larvae is there at the top of the right column together with your minerals, gas, <larvae>, queen energy, supply.
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oh my god this is awesome. I can even see the effect of an early scout worker.
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how is this viable ? at 9 minutes he has medievak and stim , he has 2-3 bunkers aswel if he goes gasless 1 rax expand .. you autolose with this build i think your build is only viable vs 1/1/1
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On April 15 2012 06:43 xsnac wrote:how is this viable ? at 9 minutes he has medievak and stim , he has 2-3 bunkers aswel if he goes gasless 1 rax expand .. you autolose with this build i think your build is only viable vs 1/1/1
its only NOT viable vs 1-1-1 (unless you get lucky). it is vs any other build... you hit with 7 blinkstalkers at 7:30 and blink/obs the crap out of it. you should never lose any stalker.
dont argue with me if you dont know what ur talking about, its a nice little allin that can work but fail as well, i beat ppl with it that u will never play against.
€: the build is 9 minutes long because i randomly told the planner to build 12 more blinkstalkers to show that u commit to it oO
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This is an awesome tool, but one thing it really needs is an export feature that would turn it into something like
9 Drone (0:54)
10 Drone (1:xx)
11 Pool (1:xx)
Along with this is would be nice to be able to filter the output, like, group consecutive builds and don't show injects.
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Is there a way to remove workers from gas, after they have been mining already?
eg somethingn like....
12 assimilator
put probes on gas
18 pull 2 probes from gas, put back on minerals
[edit]: nvm . The answer is click on Mineral SCV/Drone/Probe.
I only just discovered you could de-paginate a thread (and use the find function on the browser)
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On April 17 2012 00:10 SirPsychoMantis wrote:
This is an awesome tool, but one thing it really needs is an export feature that would turn it into something like
9 Drone (0:54)
10 Drone (1:xx)
11 Pool (1:xx)
I wished for the same thing, so here it is. I couldn't get the code to format rightly in this post, so here's a link to instructions for using it. In short, you create a bookmarklet in your browser then click it when you're on the SC2Planner page for the build order you want to print.
It works in Chrome/Firefox. Doesn't seem to work in IE (but I couldn't immediately figure out how to easily add a bookmarklet), but I didn't spend time figuring out why.
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On December 24 2011 19:56 grs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 21:16 RobiTL wrote:Please Pretty Please, show the larvaes/larvae-block, it's the most important thing to consider for optimised Zerg BO. Right now, you have to check the timeline second by second to see when/if a larvae block occur. You could put rectangles under or over the timeline to see the number of larvaes (if 3, then a red background rectangle) If multiple hatcheries, one line per hatchery. For instance, a 9over 11 pool http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZaaajaaoFa has larvae block from 1:32 to 1:40 For instance, a 8pool http://www.sc2planner.com/#ZaaoFaaj has larvae block from 0:32 to 1:06 Other than that, pretty nice tool thank you very much sir Not sure if I misunderstand, but the ammount or larvae is there at the top of the right column together with your minerals, gas, <larvae>, queen energy, supply.
Yeah but it only shows for the currently select time, i'd like something to show graphicly over time the larvae number without having to select every second of the gamespan to check if i'm larvablock or not.
![[image loading]](http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8186/larvablock.png)
Being able to quickly see any larva block is absolutely useful to make an optimised zerg build order.
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Very well done, One thing I noticed though, whenever I tried to cue up more than 4 chrono boosts for warpgate research
(3 for 12 gate), It delays starting the research significantly (about 27 seconds for 13 gate, 33 for 12 gate).
It may be because it's trying to make the chrono boosts line up consecutively. Not quite sure what fix would be.
Perhaps instead of having whatever's next on the list be chrono boosted, being able to select what you want to chrono boost at what time, don't know what that would involve though, or if it's within the capabilities of the program. Regardless, great job.
edit: Whoops, I think this may have been brought up already....derp.
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Nice work. One thing that I think would be nice is if you could allow it to expand wider on the monitor if I maximize my window.
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Hello! Thank you for this amazing website!
This is a very powerful tool. However, is there anyway that we can save the builds other than copying the URL? Is there a way to, say, "name the page"?
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wonderful tool, i've used this every day since release
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Possible bug:
The tool allows Sentries to be built before the Cybernetics Core is finished, which is wrong.
Example of Bug
P.S. This is an amazing site. Thanks, DeltaOne. ♥
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i can't see how to save it. I made a build order and the only thing the url says is /#Z, (after the regular part of the URL) and if i copy this and try to go to it there's nothing except the original page. so.... don't see how that works. help???
ALSO I noticed that it doesn't let you build gas until you have the expansion up. you should be allowed to start the extractors before the expansion is finished.
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whoever made this is a total genius.I gave credit also to team liquid for a great post!
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Hope this isn't too much of a necro, think I found a small bug here. I tried making a simple 4gate build to familiarize myself with how this works. Note there are only 3 Chrono Boosts on the WG reserach, will discuss below:
http://www.sc2planner.com/#PaaaoCafaaoDdfaaoBaoCacoFagafffuAajap26oDoDoDjp41oCoOoOoOoOqqqqoCqmmmoC
If you try to add a 4th CB immediately before WG, it delays the start of WG by 5 seconds, and I think this is an error. Currently WG starts at 3:29, which would allow it to end at 5:29 with 4 CBs. If my math is right, the 6th CB of the game is available at 267 seconds, so it ends at 297 seconds, well before WG would finish researching (at 329 seconds). So there's no need to delay the start of WG research to leave time for 4 CBs to take place.
I can't deduce so far how it determines when it's allowed to start a Chrono Boosted action, but at any rate, I this this is evidence of a small error in that logic.
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Im surprised this topic is as dead as it is.. its a genius tool. I've tried to contact the author but no response.
I´ve searched everywhere but I can't find a similar tool anywhere. And with HOTS around the corner, an updated version would be awesome!
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On February 04 2013 03:31 django_sc2 wrote:
Im surprised this topic is as dead as it is.. its a genius tool. I've tried to contact the author but no response.
I´ve searched everywhere but I can't find a similar tool anywhere. And with HOTS around the corner, an updated version would be awesome!
I was trying as well... What a great site it was...
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Please continue building sc2planner for HOTS. This is the best build order organizer out in StarCraft 2.
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This is a really great tool.
I still use it but a lot of things need a update. Hots stuff, observer build time etc.
Would be really cool if we could get an update.
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Anyone heard if this will ever be updated for HOTS?
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It is updated for HOTS now:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=413564
(just in case someone ended up in this old thread but did not see the new one)
And why isn't this tool more popular yet?
I just heard of it for the first time and it seems incredible.
If there was an archive of current builds it could cut down the time needed to understand and be able to "read" builds (for one's own and especially for the other races) sooo much - probably for just about any skill level.
I can imagine using it on a regular basis becoming second nature like reading music sheets.
Sure there are people who play a lot and can't even read music sheets and are incredible musicians - but being able to read a piece of music and understand how it is constructed (without necessarily having to play it oneself) shortens the time needed to learn, makes it easier not to feel overwhelmed and can give you a different level of understanding.
I understand that high level players probably need way less information to fill in the blanks and totally "get" a build. Because they have far better developed schemas. But other people can waste a lot of time and not learn anything because they do not have the schemas that help them understand what just happened - it's just too much to integrate.
(Some people learn something new about music with any piece of music they listen to - because they know enough about structure and harmonies that they really understand what is going on - while most of us just passively listen and don't really learn anything)
I'll make a donation right now - and cross my fingers that sc2planner becomes the new style of mapping out builds...
and that people start coaching with those kinds of sheets...
(goes hand in a hand with a proper macro training of course.
you could learn a lot of music theory and really "understand" and appreciate a d-minor concert without having the ability to play any instrument yourself... you could learn how to play an instrument without understanding any theory about harmonies. but only learning theory will not make you a good player and not spending enough time on theory will limit your flexibility)
Btw, this is not and ad or anything. I am not in any way connected to the people who created this tool.
I am just REALLY excited.
God, you can even do homework assignments with this :D
On a map like X where it takes lings approx. 30s to run across the map, when will the first lings of a 6/10-pooling player (A) arrive at his opponents (B) base and when will B's lings spawn if he did a hatch first build without gas?
How many drones will both players have at this point?
What are the numbers if B pools before placing the hatch?
When would B have to place his pool to have 2/4/6 lings at the time that A's lings arriveand what would his drone count be then?
What are the numbers on a smaller/larger map with y s to run across...)
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I recommend for everyone to use and make some good build orders.Enjoy!
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EPT
