EPTAPM measurements changes in 1.4.0 - Page 35
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ThirdDegree
United States329 Posts
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MindRush
Romania916 Posts
You can key-tap all day and have excellent APM and run all your marines into banelings, or just forget to build units and pile up resources -> c'mon, don't tell me it didn't happen to you ! At the end all that matters is who won and who lost | ||
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synkronized
United States125 Posts
On September 23 2011 04:38 Micket wrote: I am going to laugh when people say stuff like 'lol Vibe only has 150 apm he just spammmmms he actually sucks i have same apm lol.' Then I'm going to ask, 'why is his macro soooo much better then. You must suckkkkkk even harder if have useless apm in the useless apm meter.' Vibe doesn't suck. But I could tell from the get go that his APM was grossly inflated and he wasn't really that fast. Vibe's not bad, but he definitely spams enough to make his APM appear high even amongst pros when he's not really playing that much faster than others. | ||
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bakon23
United States4 Posts
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teide
Spain178 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:26 MindRush wrote: APM is not a game-deciding factor - I mean the number it shows. You can key-tap all day and have excellent APM and run all your marines into banelings, or just forget to build units and pile up resources -> c'mon, don't tell me it didn't happen to you ! At the end all that matters is who won and who lost that don't make sense, if you have excellent apm, you can split your marines, build all units and have excellent macro. If you have low apm you can't. | ||
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Ghostface_Killa
United States168 Posts
On August 26 2011 22:36 arbitrageur wrote: zergs apm to drop significantly. 44v 55v 66v T.T sigh EDIT: nevermind that would be 6 actions. More like: 4 (select all queens), delete/tab (cycle to 1st hatch), v + shift-click, tab + shift-click, tab + shift-click People should be less worried about APM counters and more about making their actions more efficient. | ||
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NoMoS
Canada20 Posts
On September 23 2011 09:38 Ghostface_Killa wrote: More like: 4 (select all queens), delete/tab (cycle to 1st hatch), v + shift-click, tab + shift-click, tab + shift-click People should be less worried about APM counters and more about making their actions more efficient. No way that's faster | ||
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:26 MindRush wrote: APM is not a game-deciding factor - I mean the number it shows. You can key-tap all day and have excellent APM and run all your marines into banelings, or just forget to build units and pile up resources -> c'mon, don't tell me it didn't happen to you ! At the end all that matters is who won and who lost People need to stop lying to themselves. It obviously is. Look at grubby's new vlog. oGs coach said that his problem was that he played too slow. You can only be at the highest level of play with great APM. SjoW is great but he is not Code S material because he is slow. You can only play a perfect macro game with sick apm. You can only harass and multitask with sick apm. You can see that when multitasking is taking place people's apm will spike. It is simple, as you play faster and faster you'll get the most from your BOs, your decisions and the engagements. Have you never knew something you had to do in a game to win or be in a better position, but you just KNEW you couldn't pull the play atm? It happens to me all the time, if I were faster I would let less minerals float while I harass with my hellions. | ||
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Ghostface_Killa
United States168 Posts
On September 23 2011 06:06 ThirdDegree wrote: I agree that the change is dumb, but only because it was something that didn't need to be changed and they spent some resources on it. But that being said, as long as everyone is compared with the same APM counter, doesn't it not really matter? You can still directly compare yourself to another player, as well as compare your APM from match to match. I thought so too, then I remembered Day9's emphasis on "tapping" one's hot-keys in order to monitor unit production, cooldowns and upgrades while performing other actions, such as scouting. Now those players won't have their "tapping" actions counted when being compared to players who don't tap at all. Not that I really give a crap. I think high and efficient APM is important for high-level play but I only ever bring up the APM tab for shits and giggles anyway. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On September 23 2011 09:47 Ghostface_Killa wrote: I thought so too, then I remembered Day9's emphasis on "tapping" one's hot-keys in order to monitor unit production, cooldowns and upgrades while performing other actions, such as scouting. Now those players won't have their "tapping" actions counted when being compared to players who don't tap at all. Not that I really give a crap. I think high and efficient APM is important for high-level play but I only ever bring up the APM tab for shits and giggles anyway. And so what if they're compared? The only thing that'll happen, is maybe someone who's watching the replay (you, or the other guy who played, because let's be honest, most of the time no one wants to watch YOUR replays) and they'll glance at the APM tab a time or two, and go, "interesting, blizzard said we both played with 80apm" And then the only thing you'll care about is who won. You're not going to go to bed that night thinking, "damn! If only i'd had more of my APM recorded, i'd've been able to beat him!" Because you're going to be doing the exact same amount of actions. Whether or not blizzard writes it down is completely irrelevant. Edit: On September 23 2011 09:47 Alpino wrote: People need to stop lying to themselves. It obviously is. Look at grubby's new vlog. oGs coach said that his problem was that he played too slow. You can only be at the highest level of play with great APM. SjoW is great but he is not Code S material because he is slow. You can only play a perfect macro game with sick apm. You can only harass and multitask with sick apm. You can see that when multitasking is taking place people's apm will spike. It is simple, as you play faster and faster you'll get the most from your BOs, your decisions and the engagements. Have you never knew something you had to do in a game to win or be in a better position, but you just KNEW you couldn't pull the play atm? It happens to me all the time, if I were faster I would let less minerals float while I harass with my hellions. That's exactly what he's saying. Who cares if tapping or not is counted. If you have the APM to split your marines, and macro and micro at the same time, then you'll still have a really high apm listed, and you'll be able to crush pepole in games. If literally all you did is sit there and tap between buildings, and you're bad at macro, and micro. you'll lose. End of story, because you'll have super high gosu apm according to sc2gears, but you'll suck ass when you actually play someone. No ones saying that fast players should slow down. This patch isn't going to slow fast players down. It's just not going to count some of the cycling that they do. Not a huge deal imo | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Why even change this? don't get it at all. Have APM/eAPM instead of obscuring data people might want to know. It's not a huge deal of course but is pointless to change. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25071 Posts
Agree with the people who think it was just to appease the lower-level players who perhaps find those high APMs disconcerting and whatnot. Still not a massive deal, but bizarre. | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
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Omega1Kill
4 Posts
average apm current apm average eapm current eapm just maybe... idk i feel like that'd be better | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
At least tapping 12345 on your production facilities actually serves a valuable purpose such as checking on your macro at all times while as only one click is really necessary for an army to move somewhere. Seriously, APM makes NO sense after this patch because spam clicking your army overrides so many other actions. The previous way of measuring APM wasn't always indicative of how fast someone plays, but it made a hell of a lot more sense. | ||
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repsac
91 Posts
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
My apm was around 180 pre-patch, now it's around 130-150 | ||
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owenowens33
United States94 Posts
APM doesn't matter. It doesn't affect the outcome of the game and it does not directly translate into skill, so why do you care? - Are any of the opponents of the new eAPM change really claiming that the APM changes the outcome of the game? Are people taking up this argument so confused that they think that this is what their opponents are claiming? No one believes that the number displayed as your APM is a factor in you winning the game. - If APM is so inconsequential to you, then why do YOU care how people wish to see their APM displayed? If you play Protoss and don't care about the TvZ matchup at all, even in a spectator sense, then why would you be opposed to anyone taking a stance on a balance issue in the TvZ matchup, if it is obviously does not matter? The new APM will reduce inflated spam, and now spammers will finally not be able to claim that their high APM translates to skill. - You can still spam. In fact, the new system actually encourages movement spam, as mindless unit move commands, reminiscent of how people play diablo, still register as valid actions. In fact, there will be an even larger gap between mindless spammers and skill, since movement spamming is usually more useless than tap-checking. The new APM is a better measurement of how quickly you are playing, since it only tracks useful actions. - Read above, spam actions are still possible. - On September 23 2011 18:06 CatNzHat wrote: . It actually boggles my mind how many people in this thread do not understand this very simple concept. Tap checking is something all high level players do, and is not useless spam. Watch any pro stream, and look at the bottom center at the current unit / building selections. It will occasionally show various control groups and production facilities being rapidly selected, with no action in between.The reason for tapping is not to keep you in the mindset or keep your fingers warm or anything like that, you cycle through your production facilities to see the progress of the units and maintain solid macro. My apm was around 180 pre-patch, now it's around 130-150 The argument being made here against the system is not that lower APM numbers for players will result in a difference in gameplay, rather, it is that the new way of calculating APM actually renders the statistic useless, as it displays neither effective APM nor real APM. This would be analogous to a scenario in which blizzard changed the workers produced tab to only show workers that mined minerals. The statistic is misleading and does not yield useful information. Why is having the correct APM displayed useful at all? Well, to many, it can help them improve their hand speed, or increase the pace they play the game at. Trying to improve at something, like getting faster (not spamming faster), it is always helpful to have a reliable measurement to mark progress. When runners prepare for a race, they do not want their measurement be flawed in some way, i.e. only showing paces taken rather than overall time. The new system of calculating APM hinders the ability to see progress, since some actions that would legitimately help a player be a faster player are ignored and not displayed. | ||
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Athrun
Philippines16 Posts
For those who have a daily goal of increasing his APM (Diamonds and a majority of Masters perhaps?), it is quite annoying. BW-style APM, whether most of us will admit it or not, is usually indicative of a player's multitasking capacity. If we consider the widely accepted opinion that people below high masters have inefficient macro, the new change to APM represents a tool for improvement that has been lost. Now, Blizz has 2 more expansions lined up. If blizz retains players who would have otherwise been discouraged by losses being shown, apm, etc., then it justifies those actions from an ROI point of view. I just hope they use the revenue well to improve this game to compensate the players who keep grinding away - players who never cared about losses in the first place so long as they perceive improvement in their game, players who actually care about their classic APM because they have been put in situations where their multitasking just couldn't hold. Very shrewd of Blizzard, knowing that semi-serious players won't put this game down just because losses are hidden, and definitely not because APM measurement has turned into an utter sham. Those who constantly whine about losses and APM however, represent copies of HotS that might not get picked up. | ||
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