EPTWhy 1/1/1 is considered to be imbalanced in Korea - Page 124
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Can we stop talking about nerfing things please? - 9:10 KST | ||
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nodule
Canada931 Posts
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:35 nodule wrote: Hey guys, are there any (blue) posts worth reading in this thread? I sure wish there was a filter (or at least a count of blue posts) afaik blue posts are only for strat forum | ||
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TT1
Canada10105 Posts
On August 25 2011 06:37 beute wrote: and you thought it would be a good idea to use megaupload to upload you sc2 replays? :D is there another way to upload sc2 reps? havnt uploaded any reps before so im clueless : D | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:43 TT1 wrote: is there another way to upload sc2 reps? havnt uploaded any reps before so im clueless : D http://drop.sc/ is an easy to use and functional sc2 replay sharing site. I recommend it for quickness and simplicity. | ||
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On August 25 2011 06:16 TT1 wrote: hey look i just defended [url blocked] [url blocked] edit: two 1/1/1 allins But like all of the other successful defenses against a 1/1/1 allin, you did it with a build that dies to 2 rax on most maps. | ||
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nodule
Canada931 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:39 Chocolate wrote: afaik blue posts are only for strat forum Okay, well, the equivalent, then? | ||
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
On August 25 2011 07:50 iamke55 wrote: But like all of the other successful defenses against a 1/1/1 allin, you did it with a build that dies to 2 rax on most maps. Also, in the second game, he didn't even use PDD and still it was cutting it close. Makes me rather sad. | ||
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Zombie_Velociraptor
274 Posts
Obviously I can't talk from pro-player perspective (although from what I've seen as a spectator, this still holds true), but in my ladder games, scouting an all-in with a little bit of time to prepare for it means you'll be able to crush it decisively. Obviously the closer to all-in timing you scout it and the less time you have to prepare, the tougher it is to hold it - but most of the time, it's a game of information - if you see it coming, you survive; if you don't, you die. Why then should there be a 1-base build which, even when 100% expected, is still tremendously potent? Even a 50% success rate for SCOUTED all-ins is ridiculously high, it should never be an even battle, nevermind an attackers advantage if the defender expects what you will throw at him from the get-go. It really doesn't matter if it is only effective on certain maps / starting positions, a 1-base all-in shouldn't warrant hundreds of pages of discussion and spreadsheets to calculate what optimal unit compositions you might come up with. If I go into the game knowing exactly what my opponent does, I should win, period. With this build, even with a perfect maphack on, a Protoss might still have a challenge. It's just not right, and I really don't see how can people claim otherwise. This isn't a "strategy" that requires "metagame to evolve" and "solutions to be researched", it's a goddamn 1-base all-in with an SCV pull. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On August 25 2011 08:05 Zombie_Velociraptor wrote: I'm curious, is there a single 1-base strat that is actually in any way challenging to hold if scouted or 'foreseen' more than 1-2 minutes in advance? Obviously I can't talk from pro-player perspective (although from what I've seen as a spectator, this still holds true), but in my ladder games, scouting an all-in with a little bit of time to prepare for it means you'll be able to crush it decisively. Obviously the closer to all-in timing you scout it and the less time you have to prepare, the tougher it is to hold it - but most of the time, it's a game of information - if you see it coming, you survive; if you don't, you die. Why then should there be a 1-base build which, even when 100% expected, is still tremendously potent? Even a 50% success rate for SCOUTED all-ins is ridiculously high, it should never be an even battle, nevermind an attackers advantage if the defender expects what you will throw at him from the get-go. It really doesn't matter if it is only effective on certain maps / starting positions, a 1-base all-in shouldn't warrant hundreds of pages of discussion and spreadsheets to calculate what optimal unit compositions you might come up with. If I go into the game knowing exactly what my opponent does, I should win, period. With this build, even with a perfect maphack on, a Protoss might still have a challenge. It's just not right, and I really don't see how can people claim otherwise. This isn't a "strategy" that requires "metagame to evolve" and "solutions to be researched", it's a goddamn 1-base all-in with an SCV pull. That's incorrect, actually; if you knew ahead of time what your opponent was going to do, you'd go for a super super greedy 1 gate FE, chrono your probes hard, and benefit from the expo and have a good army by the time he attacked. If a protoss player is 100% sure of what his opponent is going to do, he can hold this just fine. That's never been the issue. The issue is that the decision to go for a build safe against 1/1/1 or not has to be made very early on limited information; and in most games, you DONT know what your opponent is going to go, and going for a build safe against 1/1/1 means going for a build that is (apparently) unsafe against bio all-in. If you had maphack, you would know whether to make an obs or an immortal, and whether he was getting a raven, and you wouldn't need to make 2 obs. The problem isn't 1/1/1 allin, it's 1/1/1 allin AND the quicker pressure builds terran can do, and the fact that (apparently) there isn't a good way as protoss to open safely against 2 rax pressure expo AND scout and defend a 1/1/1 in time. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On August 25 2011 06:54 tomatriedes wrote: If you can't see you're being hypocritical by demanding buffs/nerfs that benefit the race you play while outright calling other people's buff/nerf ideas that don't benefit the race you play unreasonable and insisting they just need to play better then I'm pretty much done arguing with you. Hope you learn to play better against infestors. ;P You realize you never actually engaged in any argument, right? But you are correct in one sense. Any argument between you and I would almost certainly be a waste of time, ;P | ||
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Dsn4001
Korea (South)106 Posts
On August 25 2011 06:16 TT1 wrote: hey look i just defended [url blocked] [url blocked] edit: two 1/1/1 allins If he 3 rax'd or even just 2 rax'd you, there was no way you'd hold. There was no way for you to even tell early on which path he is going, since he could easily hide units. Your style seems really risky to me. | ||
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EMIYA
United States433 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On August 25 2011 02:06 H0i wrote: This is simply not a solution. Not only is it going to make armor upgrades very strong against stalkers, which will mean if you're 1 attack upgrade behind you have a significant disadvantage, but also the raven variation of the 1-1-1 is just one of many, and there are a lot of variations of the build that don't use a raven. Let's not start this... but if anything, roaches > stalkers for cost. Stalkers are not "borderline OP". Believe me, I've played enough protoss and zerg to talk about this. I recommend you switch to random, and after maybe 300 games you'll understand what I'm talking about. Stalker Blink research time increased from 110 to 140. Looks like Blizzard agrees with me, sorry bro. | ||
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Durantula
United States108 Posts
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juw
76 Posts
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lyrlian
Netherlands257 Posts
On August 25 2011 11:28 juw wrote: I guess the 5second increase in barracks build time will make scouting a fast factory much easier. Hahahahah! Jeah and the reduced damage on Blue Flame Hellions will help a bunch too! Not to mention the increase of the immortal's range! | ||
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LicH.
China235 Posts
On August 25 2011 09:53 Dsn4001 wrote: If he 3 rax'd or even just 2 rax'd you, there was no way you'd hold. There was no way for you to even tell early on which path he is going, since he could easily hide units. Your style seems really risky to me. ITT people who think they know better than TTI | ||
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ForeverSleep
Canada920 Posts
On August 25 2011 11:39 LicH. wrote: ITT people who think they know better than TT1 did you even read the thread (or a part of it, at least?) no one is claiming to be better than tt1, however, as far as i know, people want to find a way to hold the allin WITHOUT going 1 gate expo, and/or 15 nexus and find a safer non greedy way to hold...aka not what tt1 did in his replays... | ||
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TT1
Canada10105 Posts
On August 25 2011 09:53 Dsn4001 wrote: If he 3 rax'd or even just 2 rax'd you, there was no way you'd hold. There was no way for you to even tell early on which path he is going, since he could easily hide units. Your style seems really risky to me. game 1 im pretty sure i scouted his 2gas and even if i didnt fast void +3g holds 2rax/3rax and in game 2 i had gosu game sense ^.^..na but on shakuras u can delay any pushs with ff's at ur exp so 1g exping is pretty safe =] | ||
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LicH.
China235 Posts
On August 25 2011 11:51 ForeverSleep wrote: did you even read the thread (or a part of it, at least?) no one is claiming to be better than tt1, however, as far as i know, people want to find a way to hold the allin WITHOUT going 1 gate expo, and/or 15 nexus and find a safer non greedy way to hold...aka not what tt1 did in his replays... You didn't get what I did with my post | ||
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