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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
Here are some 'hot-potato' units (because some say 'it's IMBA and others say 'it is balanced') Swarm host (esp PvZ) Hellbat (esp the 'hell drop') Widow Mine (esp TvZ) Mutalisk (esp ZvZ) . . . Wow that's all I could think of!!! (so no IMBA protoss units?) | ||
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willstertben
427 Posts
On May 23 2013 10:01 SsDrKosS wrote: Just for the people who are not sure about this thread, this thread is for people who want to discuss some issues in balance. Here are some 'hot-potato' units (because some say 'it's IMBA and others say 'it is balanced') Swarm host (esp PvZ) Hellbat (esp the 'hell drop') Widow Mine (esp TvZ) Mutalisk (esp ZvZ) . . . Wow that's all I could think of!!! (so no IMBA protoss units?) void rays against zerg | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
yep... but micro on muta can hold off VR reasonably well can't they? And vipers can pull them one by one? And our mighty 'glass cannon' hydra! (which is so weak in hp  ) | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
Problem: Mothership is no better than MSC except more stats and cloaking field (not even photon overcharggg!) Solution: give another ability that makes it unique (bring back vortex?) Side-effect: Mothership can be too imba depending on the skill added | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On May 23 2013 10:01 SsDrKosS wrote: Just for the people who are not sure about this thread, this thread is for people who want to discuss some issues in balance. Here are some 'hot-potato' units (because some say 'it's IMBA and others say 'it is balanced') Swarm host (esp PvZ) Hellbat (esp the 'hell drop') Widow Mine (esp TvZ) Mutalisk (esp ZvZ) . . . Wow that's all I could think of!!! (so no IMBA protoss units?) Void Rays and Tempests. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On May 23 2013 11:50 SsDrKosS wrote: People, are we meant to discuss OP unit only in this thread? how about some UP units like Mamaship? Problem: Mothership is no better than MSC except more stats and cloaking field (not even photon overcharggg!) Solution: give another ability that makes it unique (bring back vortex?) Side-effect: Mothership can be too imba depending on the skill added David Kim said Mothership cloaking field is useful to defense swarm host pressure. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On May 23 2013 13:37 mishimaBeef wrote: I don't think I have seen tempests once in the last 3 weeks of proleague. I don't think I've seen a pro match where people go mass widow mine past the first 2 weeks of HotS. People still complain about their imbalance though. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On May 23 2013 10:01 SsDrKosS wrote: Just for the people who are not sure about this thread, this thread is for people who want to discuss some issues in balance. Here are some 'hot-potato' units (because some say 'it's IMBA and others say 'it is balanced') Swarm host (esp PvZ) Hellbat (esp the 'hell drop') Widow Mine (esp TvZ) Mutalisk (esp ZvZ) . . . Wow that's all I could think of!!! (so no IMBA protoss units?) Maybe you should start thinking of balance outside of singular units? | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
No basis just typical whining zerg | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 23 2013 16:19 iky43210 wrote: what is hot now is zerg constant crying about hellbat, esp some of the lessor zergs call them beyond broken. No basis just typical whining zerg at least they cry about units that are actually useful... Compared to Terrans that tell me how broken swarm hosts are against bio, those zergs look like philosophers to me. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On May 23 2013 16:23 Big J wrote: at least they cry about units that are actually useful... Compared to Terrans that tell me how broken swarm hosts are against bio, those zergs look like philosophers to me. My mother is better than your mother? Isn't that somewhat, well, sandbox? How about we unanimously accept that this is a good state of evolving balance and we shun the crybabies. If there will be a problem, we discuss when there is a problem. As for the mothership, it has returned to competitive play (I remember a daybreak game,anyone want to help me out?) and it was effective for a while. (I think the P lost the game though because he didn't counter air, though.) So, there might be a resurgence as part of a solution to lategame SH play. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On May 23 2013 11:18 SsDrKosS wrote: yep... but micro on muta can hold off VR reasonably well can't they? And vipers can pull them one by one? And our mighty 'glass cannon' hydra! (which is so weak in hp )I am not going to say what is op and what isn't. I am just going to say that counterable =/= not imba. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On May 23 2013 16:38 Ghanburighan wrote: My mother is better than your mother? Isn't that somewhat, well, sandbox? How about we unanimously accept that this is a good state of evolving balance and we shun the crybabies. If there will be a problem, we discuss when there is a problem. As for the mothership, it has returned to competitive play (I remember a daybreak game,anyone want to help me out?) and it was effective for a while. (I think the P lost the game though because he didn't counter air, though.) So, there might be a resurgence as part of a solution to lategame SH play. You just made yourself a serious enemy! My mother is a thousand times better than your mother! I'm not too sure if the mothership really helps. I mean, it helps. But then it gets pulled and that's it with the helping... | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On May 23 2013 17:18 Big J wrote: You just made yourself a serious enemy! My mother is a thousand times better than your mother! I'm not too sure if the mothership really helps. I mean, it helps. But then it gets pulled and that's it with the helping... Heh, as for theorycrafting about the mothership, I think we need to see how it plays out in competitive games. Theoretically you can always have a HT in between your M-ship and any incoming vipers. The HT is relatively safe inside the cloaking field and has a second or two to feedback the viper before it gets close. | ||
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Tritanis
Poland344 Posts
On May 23 2013 11:50 SsDrKosS wrote: People, are we meant to discuss OP unit only in this thread? how about some UP units like Mamaship? Problem: Mothership is no better than MSC except more stats and cloaking field (not even photon overcharggg!) Solution: give another ability that makes it unique (bring back vortex?) Side-effect: Mothership can be too imba depending on the skill added I think it would be cool if the mothership could use photon overcharge on itself. Mobile Nexus Cannon GO! | ||
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willstertben
427 Posts
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Ignorant prodigy
United States385 Posts
Honestly I feel like the advantage of drilling claws is too large.. I say this as a random player.. so keep in mind I get that advantage a 3rd of the time. coupled with the fact (and correct me if I’m wrong) the only unit in the game which can avoid a widow mine once fired is a blink stalker Now.. say for example your little MMM..M… ball is sitting outside of a zerg’s base and you have 3 widow mines un-burrowed. Prior to the upgrade being researched. A large group of lines and banelings comes swooping in.. you franticly try to stim your bio, burrow your mines, focus banelings and split. The mines don’t take aggro because they’re not attacking anything.. even in the burrow action they are not targeted.. the marines and marauders are targeted. As a zerg player.. you have to micro your army to attack the widow mines before they burrow.. ok.. no big deal considering the micro the terran has to accomplish is similar. However here Is my gripe. If a mine manages to get burrowed there’s no way to avoid the shot… and even with the terran’s ability to target fire the widow mine (albeit hard) then the zerg is completely committed to the attack… melee units are generally already committed I understand that.. but now there’s an unreasonable amount of splash coming their way that they cannot avoid. I propose: 1. The widow mine’s standard fire is decreased and would now be avoidable by speedlings on creep if the reaction is fast enough. This rewards good micro on the zergs part. Now you can attest in the current situation the best players in the world can split their lings and have the widow mines detonate on only a few lings.. but conversely you can say the same for the best terrans in the world countering that by targeting the mine on a bigger cluster of lings/blings. So the micro level is equal in the highest level… but IMO the ability to split the lings to avoid massive damage is much much harder than just letting the mine auto-target and kill “all the things” 2. The widow mine’s burrow rate stays the same considering the aggro aspect of things.. as they’re already not auto targeted when grouped with attacking units that advantage becomes too strong when upgraded. 3. The widow mine’s attacking rate is upgradeable instead of the drilling claws. The upgrade speed would match their current speed.. meaning we go back to just the blink stalker being able to avoid. 4. To avoid making this change too zerg sided.. perhaps make the refresh rate of a widow mine who’s missile doesn’t impact anything faster? That means.. if widow mines are paired with a MMM ball the zerg would close the distance.. take damage along the way (melee vs. ranged) and then decide to back out because he sees a few widow mines burrowing or firing.. The lings would still take considerable damage but would allow them to not “fully” commit to a real bad situation. Am I way off base here? | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
Tempests? Seriously? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Yes, they make TvP lategame unplayable. | ||
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