EPTor make tanks sc1 stronk again thats cool too,
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 399
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JuiceBoxHero
117 Posts
or make tanks sc1 stronk again thats cool too, | ||
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Rampoon
United Kingdom166 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:30 Sokrates wrote: The fact that the game is NOT balanced is that life basically would have won playing WOL against HOTS flash. Zerg gained nearly nothing in HOTS whereas terra gained a shitload of new powerful toys. Life was just by far the better player, nothing to do with the game being balanced or terra not op. I have read a lot of rubbish from the typical zerg-are-too-weak / zerg-aren't-winning everthing better nerf Terran some more people on this site over the course of this evening but this is just far and away the dumbest thing i have seen. Gratz | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:33 Rampoon wrote: I have read a lot of rubbish from the typical zerg-are-too-weak / zerg-aren't-winning everthing better nerf Terran some more people on this site over the course of this evening but this is just far and away the dumbest thing i have seen. Gratz Did you watch these games? Life basically played ling, muta bane. | ||
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FreshVegetables
Finland513 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:30 Sokrates wrote: The fact that the game is NOT balanced is that life basically would have won playing WOL against HOTS flash. Zerg gained nearly nothing in HOTS whereas terra gained a shitload of new powerful toys. Life was just by far the better player, nothing to do with the game being balanced or terra not op. Stupid comment. He had what 40 supply worth of mutalisk? Mutalisks also sure as hell are way better in HOTS than WoL. Also, - Viper (super strong) - New ultra (SUPER STRONG) -Spores without evochamber (minor thing) - Swarm Host (still a bit unexplored, but has lots of potential) - new muta how can you say you got nothing new in hots? Hell Terran got one unit removed in beta and got nothing in return. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8252 Posts
Medivac boost should have a slightly longer cooldown. Maybe 25s? Also make Caduceus Reactor a cheaper upgrade, maybe 50/50 so that there's actually an incentive to attempt to get research the upgrade. | ||
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Rampoon
United Kingdom166 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:36 FreshVegetables wrote: Stupid comment. He had what 40 supply worth of mutalisk? Mutalisks also sure as hell are way better in HOTS than WoL. Also, - Viper (super strong) - New ultra (SUPER STRONG) -Spores without evochamber (minor thing) - Swarm Host (still a bit unexplored, but has lots of potential) - new muta how can you say you got nothing new in hots? Hell Terran got one unit removed in beta and got nothing in return. Don't bother trying to reason with that poster. I regretted responding almost immediately, i have resisted speaking out against pro-zerg idiocy all evening. Need to remember to not read any chat or thread sadly. Good thing is, as long as blizzard can resist bringing out the nerf bat for terran (or anything) for a few months, HOTS looks a hell of a lot more interesting than the last 8 months snorefest of zvzvzvzvzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | ||
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FreshVegetables
Finland513 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:40 Rampoon wrote: Don't bother trying to reason with that poster. I regretted responding almost immediately, i have resisted speaking out against pro-zerg idiocy all evening. Need to remember to not read any chat or thread sadly. Good thing is, as long as blizzard can resist bringing out the nerf bat for terran (or anything) for a few months, HOTS looks a hell of a lot more interesting than the last 8 months snorefest of zvzvzvzvzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz They can't resist the swarm. I can already see the next patch - Medivac speed removed from the game. - Fungal Growth is instant cast again - Reaper build time +10 seconds. - Widow mine only able to hit ground units. You heard it here first... | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:40 Rampoon wrote: Don't bother trying to reason with that poster. I regretted responding almost immediately, i have resisted speaking out against pro-zerg idiocy all evening. Need to remember to not read any chat or thread sadly. Good thing is, as long as blizzard can resist bringing out the nerf bat for terran (or anything) for a few months, HOTS looks a hell of a lot more interesting than the last 8 months snorefest of zvzvzvzvzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Hell yes, it looks for more interesting. But you cannot expect the game to be balanced when it is released. I m pretty sure we will see some nerfs for terran and maybe some buffs for zerg. But it is a lot harder to balance the game by buffing some units because it can change the game dramatically, so i think they ll stick with the nerf bat for terran  .On March 18 2013 10:45 FreshVegetables wrote: They can't resist the swarm. I can already see the next patch - Medivac speed removed from the game. - Fungal Growth is instant cast again - Reaper build time +10 seconds. - Widow mine only able to hit ground units. You heard it here first... Make it an cheap upgrade to have medivac speed boost. Let infesters do bonus dmg against armored again, or give back the upgrades for infested terrans. Dunno about the repear, seems like you can defend against it, but mb it will get a nerf. Mines should be changed, but i dont know how they should rework them. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
He didn't play predictable build orders. He identified when he had opportunities to do dmg. He had great creep spread, overlord postioning, 1 spine at almost every base the whole series, and kept some spare untis on defense. He used vipers, banelings, and mutas to great effect. He prioritized killing medivacs. He sent units ahead of his army to avoid mine splash dmg. It doesn't take the best player in the world to do these things. Drops and mines punish careless play. Don't be careless. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:37 geokilla wrote: I was thinking of making Ignite Afterburners to a tech lab research without fusion core. Of course, many more games need to be played before conclusion, but I feel that the ability itself is fine, but comes too early to prepare for. Just 50/50 80sec research or something would be fine so that first medivac from normal starport or first 2 medivacs from a reactor starport don't have the ability. After mid to late game, it is opponent's fault for not having proper defense anyways. We'll see in the next few months. Widow mines need to be tweaked so that it doesn't do splash damage to friendly units automatically, and actually autocast properly so that it'll autocast when there's an enemy unit within its attack range. A lot of times, it seems the attack doesn't auto cast until it's too late. Medivac boost should have a slightly longer cooldown. Maybe 25s? Also make Caduceus Reactor a cheaper upgrade, maybe 50/50 so that there's actually an incentive to attempt to get research the upgrade. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:46 Reborn8u wrote: Why did life win? He didn't play predictable build orders. He identified when he had opportunities to do dmg. He had great creep spread, overlord postioning, 1 spine at almost every base the whole series, and kept some spare untis on defense. He used vipers, banelings, and mutas to great effect. He prioritized killing medivacs. He sent units ahead of his army to avoid mine splash dmg. It doesn't take the best player in the world to do these things. Drops and mines punish careless play. Don't be careless. Best summary of what happened that I've yet to see. Basically all tournament long Life played to the player, not the race, he brought up different styles to suit his needs, he mixed it up even within a single series, and he adapted like a true zerg, getting static defenses to buy him time to clean up drops or save his stuff. He cleverly used vipers to neagete medivac speed, focused them when he could with Mutas and also used clever ling micro to negate a lot of widow mine damage. Overall Life just played brilliantly, and everything that I'm seeing is just crying from zergs now that they need to work harder to stop things that are quite stoppable. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:46 Reborn8u wrote: Why did life win? He didn't play predictable build orders. He identified when he had opportunities to do dmg. He had great creep spread, overlord postioning, 1 spine at almost every base the whole series, and kept some spare untis on defense. He used vipers, banelings, and mutas to great effect. He prioritized killing medivacs. He sent units ahead of his army to avoid mine splash dmg. It doesn't take the best player in the world to do these things. Drops and mines punish careless play. Don't be careless. You make it sound so much easier then it is. "just use vipers,banelings and mutas to great effect" Not to say its imbalanced just yet but this kind of understatement is just silly. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
On March 18 2013 10:51 Assirra wrote: You make it sound so much easier then it is. "just use vipers,banelings and mutas to great effect" Not to say its imbalanced just yet but this kind of understatement is just silly. You are absolutely right, 99.99% of players don't have his control. But the rest of what I listed, almost anyone can do. It certainly doesn't take a pro to grab medevacs with vipers. His ling bling micro was about the only thing average players wont be able to replicate. But I've seen terrans in platinum who were pretty damn good at splitting marines vs banes, so who knows. | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:16 Reborn8u wrote: You are absolutely right, 99.99% of players don't have his control. But the rest of what I listed, almost anyone can do. It certainly doesn't take a pro to grab medevacs with vipers. His ling bling micro was about the only thing average players wont be able to replicate. But I've seen terrans in platinum who were pretty damn good at splitting marines vs banes, so who knows. You don't need to have Life's level of control to beat a terran opponent on ladder, just as you don't need to have Flash's level of control to beat a zerg on ladder, the ladder will pair you up naturally against opponents of similar skill level, just focus on playing smart, having fun and improving. Remember that you always have room for improvement and also remember that you aren't playing against a Korean GM or MLG/GSL champion every time you hit the ladder, while you may make mistakes, your opponent will make mistakes too. | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:16 Reborn8u wrote: You are absolutely right, 99.99% of players don't have his control. But the rest of what I listed, almost anyone can do. It certainly doesn't take a pro to grab medevacs with vipers. His ling bling micro was about the only thing average players wont be able to replicate. But I've seen terrans in platinum who were pretty damn good at splitting marines vs banes, so who knows. The thing is that dealing with drops takes a lot more concentration and dedication for the defending player than for the player that drops. Vipers are a t3 unit and they are not very cheap regarding as, so you acutally suggest a t3 unit that can pull a unit back to deal with drops? It wasnt just about lifes control, he had sick game reads, he took some risks he has perfect injects, sick creepsread etc. The "average" player wont even hit good injects with 2 bases... lol the only thing they arent able to replicate is his control, never heard such an unrealstic thing EVER regarding rts games. There is so much more in sc2 that pro players need to do, do better than the average player could ever think of. On March 18 2013 11:27 Destructicon wrote: You don't need to have Life's level of control to beat a terran opponent on ladder, just as you don't need to have Flash's level of control to beat a zerg on ladder, the ladder will pair you up naturally against opponents of similar skill level, just focus on playing smart, having fun and improving. Remember that you always have room for improvement and also remember that you aren't playing against a Korean GM or MLG/GSL champion every time you hit the ladder, while you may make mistakes, your opponent will make mistakes too. Every player makes mistakes even the pro players, it just feels like terran can force mistakes much easier and they can punish mistakes a lot harder aswell. | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:30 Sokrates wrote: The thing is that dealing with drops takes a lot more concentration and dedication for the defending player than for the player that drops. Vipers are a t3 unit and they are not very cheap regarding as, so you acutally suggest a t3 unit that can pull a unit back to deal with drops? It wasnt just about lifes control, he had sick game reads, he took some risks he has perfect injects, sick creepsread etc. The "average" player wont even hit good injects with 2 bases... lol the only thing they arent able to replicate is his control, never heard such an unrealstic thing EVER regarding rts games. There is so much more in sc2 that pro players need to do, do better than the average player could ever think of. The average terran player will also not have Flash or Bomber's level of macro, or their level of multi-tasking to drop, or their level of control to split and take engagements. Stop worrying about silly things like these, just focus on playing your best and having fun, the matchmaking system will take care of the rest, and in time you can also improve, if you so desire of course. The most stupid kinds of arguments I see on these forums is from people saying they need pro gamer level of control, precision and speed to handle low tier players, guess what, if you are in gold or platinum, you could basically just win by just learning to macro properly. And if you are a low league player the other guy will make just as many mistakes as you, more or less. Edit: And yes pro gamers do make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, we are all human, pro gamers just make less of them or very small mistakes overall. However there are lots and lots and lots of things that zerg and protoss can also do that force mistakes and can also punish mistakes very hard, it only looks like terran is better right now, because people aren't used to their new tools. | ||
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Sokrates
738 Posts
On March 18 2013 11:36 Destructicon wrote: The average terran player will also not have Flash or Bomber's level of macro, or their level of multi-tasking to drop, or their level of control to split and take engagements. Stop worrying about silly things like these, just focus on playing your best and having fun, the matchmaking system will take care of the rest, and in time you can also improve, if you so desire of course. The most stupid kinds of arguments I see on these forums is from people saying they need pro gamer level of control, precision and speed to handle low tier players, guess what, if you are in gold or platinum, you could basically just win by just learning to macro properly. And if you are a low league player the other guy will make just as many mistakes as you, more or less. Edit: And yes pro gamers do make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, we are all human, pro gamers just make less of them or very small mistakes overall. However there are lots and lots and lots of things that zerg and protoss can also do that force mistakes and can also punish mistakes very hard, it only looks like terran is better right now, because people aren't used to their new tools. I ever said you need top level control, you can make it to masters by having bad unit control and really good macro. You can even make it to platinum level with mass queens if you have good macro. It just feels that terran have so much more utility with their new tools than toss or zerg. Drop were hard to handle in WOL, now it becomes even harder. Also the terrans can play much more greedy vs zerg since siegetanks and mines keep them save. Like i said, terran can force a lot of mistakes and it is easy to make a mistake vs mines or not taking care of a drop properly, that is also true on the highest level of play. | ||
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snakeeyez
United States1231 Posts
It does feel like terran has mines which complement say their defense making them better while zerg really has nothing so the end result is the matchup became harder for zerg. Vipers are not early/mid game while mines have some use the whole game. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
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gamerdude12345
Korea (South)378 Posts
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