EPTnow stop the balance crying
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 397
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headnut
Belgium58 Posts
now stop the balance crying | ||
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Ana_
Finland453 Posts
Lets talk about balance some other time. Now it is time to enjoy the ride! | ||
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Honeybadger
United States821 Posts
Solution: Phoenixes and shooting at the medivac itself when stationary/trapping it with stalkers in escape route if necessary. Side effects: drop does potentially more damage, but gets stopped. I don't understand all this hatred towards medivac speed. It's powerful. no doubts. But the one thing I noticed in MLG was that protoss were just not handling medivacs anywhere near sensibly. I saw, repeatedly, three or four zealots warped in to handle two or three full medivacs. Over and over, I saw protoss trying to REACT to the medivacs with warp ins. They try to fight the ground army and force a pickup. Problem is that medivac speed has changed the mindset. Terran no longer has almost no room for error, they can actually stay a little longer and get out reasonably safely. So fighting the drop without taking out their ride is no longer viable. MC has shown that the trick is to build phoenixes, even just a few, will handle the drop problem almost single handedly, this is made even more awesome because of the new viability of oracle and stargate openers, but more importantly, to shoot at the medivacs themselves. When the ride is gone, the army is cleaned up. Oftentimes, some stalkers moved into the medivac retreat paths can get the last few shots off. This may allow the drop to do more damage, but in many situations, the repetition of the same drop hitting over and over again are the real problem. As usual, I'm not sure that boost might need tweaking, but the amount of rage I see over it has me scared that a simple unwillingness to adapt to the game, instead demanding the game adapt to them, might cause HOTS's wonderfully new diverse and varied unit design philosophy to become diluted into the same old stale nonsense that made me stop watching/playing WOL. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On March 18 2013 06:21 Honeybadger wrote: Good point, but if I'm not mistaken, the template was not made to make your point that way. Solution section is about how you think the game balance should be changed by a patch, not how players need to handle within current balance. Side effect is about how it would affect other parts of the game if the suggeted patch were to come. I don't think you need to follow the template in the OP if you defend the current balance. It looks confusing. Other than that, good point.+ Show Spoiler + Problem: Medivac speed Solution: Phoenixes and shooting at the medivac itself when stationary/trapping it with stalkers in escape route if necessary. Side effects: drop does potentially more damage, but gets stopped. I don't understand all this hatred towards medivac speed. It's powerful. no doubts. But the one thing I noticed in MLG was that protoss were just not handling medivacs anywhere near sensibly. I saw, repeatedly, three or four zealots warped in to handle two or three full medivacs. Over and over, I saw protoss trying to REACT to the medivacs with warp ins. They try to fight the ground army and force a pickup. Problem is that medivac speed has changed the mindset. Terran no longer has almost no room for error, they can actually stay a little longer and get out reasonably safely. So fighting the drop without taking out their ride is no longer viable. MC has shown that the trick is to build phoenixes, even just a few, will handle the drop problem almost single handedly, this is made even more awesome because of the new viability of oracle and stargate openers, but more importantly, to shoot at the medivacs themselves. When the ride is gone, the army is cleaned up. Oftentimes, some stalkers moved into the medivac retreat paths can get the last few shots off. This may allow the drop to do more damage, but in many situations, the repetition of the same drop hitting over and over again are the real problem. As usual, I'm not sure that boost might need tweaking, but the amount of rage I see over it has me scared that a simple unwillingness to adapt to the game, instead demanding the game adapt to them, might cause HOTS's wonderfully new diverse and varied unit design philosophy to become diluted into the same old stale nonsense that made me stop watching/playing WOL. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
On March 18 2013 06:46 Orek wrote: Good point, but if I'm not mistaken, the template was not made to make your point that way. Solution section is about how you think the game balance should be changed by a patch, not how players need to handle within current balance. Side effect is about how it would affect other parts of the game if the suggeted patch were to come. I don't think you need to follow the template in the OP if you defend the current balance. It looks confusing. Other than that, good point. In Rain vs Jjakji, rain showed another way to shut down drops using more conventional means, that doesn't involve stargate. http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/100003-rain-vs-jjakji-game-5-round-of-16-mlg-dallas-2013 http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/99995-rain-vs-jjakji-game-2-round-of-16-mlg-dallas-2013 | ||
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Dragt
Germany73 Posts
On March 18 2013 04:57 Ana_ wrote: 2 Terrans, one Zerg and one Protoss in Semis of MLG. Lets talk about balance some other time. Now it is time to enjoy the ride! Mlg has the best possible race distribution possible in the semis, but not only that. Out of 6 korean protoss, 3 managed to reach the quarter finals, 4out of 9 terrans and 1 out of 2 zergs (50% 44,4% and 50%) 1 Tournament means nothing, but MLG has nearly perfect balance. | ||
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MuseMike
United States1339 Posts
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DifuntO
Greece2376 Posts
Innovation Great play,didn't drop a single game until he faced Flash in a ridiculously good TvT. Flash Amazing macro,micro,decision making and execution. MC the only guy that actually countered the terran drop play.Totally deserved. Life one of the 2 korean zergs in this mlg,got to the finals,nothing needs to be said,best zerg in the world. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
- Polt: kills creator (upset?), dies vs life (korean) - Last: kills stephano (foreigner), kills killer (foreigner), dies vs life (korean) - Mvp: kills feast (foreigner), dies to mc (korean) - Taeja: kills sase (foreigner), dies to bomber (terran) - Bomber: kills goswser (foreigner), kills taeja (terran), dies to mc (korean) - Flash aka GOD: kills bly (foreigner), kills ret (foreigner), kills parting (upset?), kills innovation (terran) - MKP: dies to jakji (korean) - Jakji: kills MKP (terran), dies to rain (korean) - Innovation: kills huk (foreigner), kills leenock (upset?), kills rain (upset?), dies to flash (terran) So basicly, you guys say terran is OP, based on: - Polt killing creator - flash killing parting - innovation killing leenock & rain What about flash & innovation being gods and deserving their wins? Then there is left: polt vs creator. Let's nerf terran based on that bo3?! | ||
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Entirety
1423 Posts
I do agree that this MLG has proven that Zergs and Protosses can deal with Terrans, but it's too early to see. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On March 18 2013 08:02 Snowbear wrote: What about flash & innovation being gods and deserving their wins? Then there is left: polt vs creator. Let's nerf terran based on that bo3?! I'm pretty sure Polt has a winning record against Creator in WOL too. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On March 18 2013 08:04 Bagi wrote: I'm pretty sure Polt has a winning record against Creator in WOL too. Well that brings the evidence down to 0 games. You would expect people to have good solid grounds to whine about balance, right? | ||
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purakushi
United States3308 Posts
However, I would prefer Blizzard leave the game alone and allow players to balance the game themselves for a while. | ||
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Nourek
Germany188 Posts
On March 18 2013 08:04 Entirety wrote: I do agree that this MLG has proven that Zergs and Protosses can deal with Terrans, but it's too early to see. You've kinda contradicted yourself there, I wouldn't read too much into Life beating Polt and Line 3-2 too much. There was a time after the WoL Queen patch where some people where pointing to Taeja winning a lot of TvZs as evidence that nothing was wrong. I do agree that it's too early to see. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On March 18 2013 08:06 Snowbear wrote: Don't worry. Such argument was made when queen patch came out as well. Not enough evidence etc. Then we saw what happened several months later. We will see how it goes this time. It could be the same, or players might learn over time. Time will tell, or Blizzard interferes before that.Well that brings the evidence down to 0 games. You would expect people to have good solid grounds to whine about balance, right? | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 18 2013 04:07 headnut wrote: "the other protoss and zerg play wings of liberty and thats why they lose, i play hots and thats why i win" -MC now stop the balance crying And then proceeds to get destroyed  | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On March 18 2013 08:16 Nourek wrote: You've kinda contradicted yourself there, I wouldn't read too much into Life beating Polt and Line 3-2 too much. There was a time after the WoL Queen patch where some people where pointing to Taeja winning a lot of TvZs as evidence that nothing was wrong. I do agree that it's too early to see. The difference in the example you just listed is that literally every other Terran pro, Korean or not, was getting utterly crushed by Zerg players. Only Taeja was keeping up. You had guys like Bomber losing to far inferior players; this isn't the case currently with HotS. | ||
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LainRivers
United States36 Posts
Medivac: A dropship that also heals bio (for free, no upgrade), and now has an ability (free, no upgrade), that takes no energy to use. Did I mention you can make 2 at a time? Medivac does everything and then some. 'but oh just go starport', so I'm forced into going out of my way while he literally loses nothing by just having the drop 'threat'. Cool story terrans. It's just too good. | ||
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FrogsAreDogs
Canada181 Posts
I have here a WONDERFULL suggestion for medivac speed: 1, turn it into a fusion core research, effectively making it a late game spell 2, OR, remove the flipping medivac energy upgrade at Starport tech lab and replace it with medivac speed upgrade. Forces you to have medivac speed later, thus negating much of the early game unstoppable medivac harass. It also limits the number of early game medivacs by forcing you to make a tech lab, BUT effectively preserving speed medivac play later on in the game. EH EH?? | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On March 18 2013 08:23 LainRivers wrote: I don't think anyone knows why speed is so good...sure it's powerful, and that's fine...but it's SUPER SUPER SAFE and costs nothing to do, no risks involved. Medivac: A dropship that also heals bio (for free, no upgrade), and now has an ability (free, no upgrade), that takes NO ENERGY to use. Did I mention you can make 2 at a time? Medivac does everything and then some. 'but oh just go starport', so I'm forced into going out of my way while he literally loses nothing by just having the drop 'threat'. Cool story terrans. It's just too good. The amount of bitching you're doing is just too good. Z and P got significant upgrades in alot of areas (P has a very deadly all-in against T) and you're already calling for the nerf bat because you can't win the old way anymore. Wake up, it's HotS not WoL. Most Z's got picked apart by Medivacs because they kept playing the old style of ultra greedy minimal defenses. Not to mention they were facing clearly superior Terran players. When the Z and T were relatively even in skill, it was a very close game. | ||
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