EPTDesignated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 390
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Tarias
Netherlands480 Posts
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aHz1984
Austria1 Post
but in my opinion the medivac boost is a little to strong at the moment. i think, not the fast drops are the main issue here, but the fact that failed drops are not punished. a failed drop pretty always escapes. so, trying to drop isnt a bit risky AND comes with a higher ratio of success. and even if it wasn't as successful, the terran boost away without any problems. so my thoughts about it to solve this issue is that medivacs should take a decent amount of damage during boosting. so a arriving medivac isn't @100%life - maybe on 80% life, or 75%. the drops are fast but with a little more risk to lose a drop or at least 1-2 medivacs while trying to escape. on the other side, this wont affect straight engagements at all. so t's have a strong opportunity to drop fast, but they have to think about: "is this now worth to lose 20-25% health on the medivac" ? | ||
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lawlohwhat
United States32 Posts
On March 17 2013 05:56 Tarias wrote: So I haven't really followed the scene much recently, but watching MLG currently Terran just seems to be rolling over everything. Are there any serious balances issues at work here, or is it just a matter of zerg/protoss needing time to adjust to the current state of the game? Would love to hear some opinions from people who have a clue about this! Part of it seems to be a lack of utilization of some of the new units for protoss and zerg. Swarm hosts aren't really appearing anywhere and vipers are kind of useful but not that interesting to watch compared with the new seeker missile, widow mines, etc. Oracles are a nice addition but tempests are the new carriers. Also, as a terran player who absolutely hated what tvz devolved into at the end of wings, the medivac boost seems pretty absurd. I like the design choice, but the cooldown and the sheer speed seems troublesome. | ||
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BeyondCtrL
Sweden642 Posts
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:32 Belha wrote: Speedvacs are op in PvT. Hoping for the faster balance patch from blizz (knowing that they usually take a loooooong time to balance obvious imbalances). I was actually just thinking about this and made a post here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402758¤tpage=6#103 I think the key to defending these drops lies in the following areas; building placement, reaction time, pre postioning of units,defensive structures, and map vision. These are all skill and decision based things. Balance is not the issue when all of these things are not being utilized properly. | ||
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:32 Belha wrote: Speedvacs are op in PvT. Hoping for the faster balance patch from blizz (knowing that they usually take a loooooong time to balance obvious imbalances). That depends which side is consider inbalanced. Terran was usually nerfeed preety fast, Zerg not so much. | ||
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:40 keglu wrote: That depends which side is consider inbalanced. Terran was usually nerfeed preety fast, Zerg not so much. You should check out the periods of dominance for the two races. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:49 ShamW0W wrote: Instead of nerfing boost an interesting approach may be to lower Medivac HP. Skilled Terrans could still properly take advantage of the boost but properly prepared defenses would take down Medivacs before they speed past. That could cripple bio-terran in straight up engagements. | ||
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Swimcito
Italy52 Posts
And The new Ultralisk i think is a bit too OP. Or perhaps the new ultras is fine but I believe Terran doesnt have too much of a proper response when viper/ultra/zergbane, its just too much, cloud on top everything else is just too strong. Either give Siege Tanks +10 vs massive or nerf something, because Marauders alone aint cutting it. | ||
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idkfa
United States77 Posts
On March 17 2013 05:56 Tarias wrote: So I haven't really followed the scene much recently, but watching MLG currently Terran just seems to be rolling over everything. Are there any serious balances issues at work here, or is it just a matter of zerg/protoss needing time to adjust to the current state of the game? Would love to hear some opinions from people who have a clue about this! If you take another look at the bracket, it's not that Terran is rolling over everything, it's that Koreans are rolling over everyone. I wouldn't want to make too much of the state of Terran based on the first round. Polt did take Creator behind the woodshed, though. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:32 Belha wrote: Speedvacs are op in PvT. Hoping for the faster balance patch from blizz (knowing that they usually take a loooooong time to balance obvious imbalances). I think the maps we are playing on right now are totally unsuitable for HotS. Whirlwind for excample: Huge mainbases + expansion layout (you can quickly hop between main, natural and 3rd base, while the land movement part is pretty long between those) makes drops just insanely powerful. I really hate those ability that take away the danger of commitments. Mass recall goes the same way! If you commit a large amount of units, it should be punishable! If I doomdrop into a main, I should risk my units by that. But that's not happening right now and that's a real problem. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:51 Swimcito wrote: I Think that Zerg as of right now have two OP things, Abduct from the Viper should not target Massive units, like Colossus and Thor, Period, it should if anything pull the viper towards the thor or colossus, it doesnt make any sence, No matter how strong you are, you cant pull something that is more massive than you while on the air, its just not possible. you feel abduct shouldn't be able to move massive units because... it's unrealistic? | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:38 Reborn8u wrote: I was actually just thinking about this and made a post here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402758¤tpage=6#103 I think the key to defending these drops lies in the following areas; building placement, reaction time, pre postioning of units and defensive structures, and map vision. These are all skill and decision based things. Balance is not the issue when all of these things aren't being utilized properly. I just read ur post. Apreciated the the polite way to lay the arguments. Still, I'm sorry to disagree with most of them. First, WoL drops were not a problem, with the exception of very few maps for PvT, (never in TvZ due to creep mobility to defend). Now in Hots, speedvacs are unmatched in mobility for the P. Also, the very fast cooldown for the speed, plus no cost at all, make zero risk for the T in case of good P defense placement. It doesn't mather of the protoss has invested a lot into defending the drop timing, with afterburn, the drop is always safe to leave. No more drop baits, no more focus the medivacs in a a chase. While T is dropping, now the P will always lose material, and T can escape unpunished, either with P is well positioned or not. If the P is well positioned, then the T can pull back the drop, speed up, and join forces with some frontal force and outnumber the P front army (due to forces defending in main). If the P is not defending the drop, then time to gain material for T. So the result is that you either die to the drop because you played towards securing a third for the macro game, or you survive the drop but are considerably behind in the macro game. Either way, when the T uses drops, (always talking about top pro level) the T will be gaining more and more eco and suply leads as game (and drops) progresses. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:38 Reborn8u wrote: I think the key to defending these drops lies in the following areas; building placement, reaction time, pre postioning of units,defensive structures, and map vision. These are all skill and decision based things. Balance is not the issue when all of these things are not being utilized properly. This more or less sums up why the Afterburner whining is largely invalid. | ||
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sUgArMaNiAc
Australia110 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:51 Reborn8u wrote: That could cripple bio-terran in straight up engagements. I have yet to face a bio-terran force that has a straight up engagement. I seem to come across people who stim then A-move into my third, then they try kiting my force all the way back to their base. Medivacs arent as much of a problem in straight up fights as the marine marauder ball that only chargelots and blink can catch. | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:59 Belha wrote: I just read ur post. Apreciated the the polite way to lay the arguments. Still, I'm sorry to disagree with most of them. First, WoL drops were not a problem, with the exception of very few maps for PvT, (never in TvZ due to creep mobility to defend). Now in Hots, speedvacs are unmatched in mobility for the P. Also, the very fast cooldown for the speed, plus no cost at all, make zero risk for the T in case of good P defense placement. It doesn't mather of the protoss has invested a lot into defending the drop timing, with afterburn, the drop is always safe to leave. No more drop baits, no more focus the medivacs in a a chase. While T is dropping, now the P will always lose material, and T can escape unpunished, either with P is well positioned or not. If the P is well positioned, then the T can pull back the drop, speed up, and join forces with some frontal force and outnumber the P front army (due to forces defending in main). If the P is not defending the drop, then time to gain material for T. So the result is that you either die to the drop because you played towards securing a third for the macro game, or you survive the drop but are considerably behind in the macro game. Either way, when the T uses drops, (always talking about top pro level) the T will be gaining more and more eco and suply leads as game (and drops) progresses. Now I will also politely disagree with you sir ;D First, in WoL drops were a problem before medevacs got a speed nerf. Speedvacs are not unmatched in mobility by protoss, (blink / recall / prism / phoenix?) Drops are not always safe to leave if you have a blink, phoenix, or feedback. Especially if these things are prepositioned. Using time warp with blink or phoenix will ensure their demise. I think with blink or feedback, pre positioned units, good building placement and good map vision (obs and pylons to spot drops) and perhaps a cannon per base (so widow mines are shut down) protoss can take a 3rd pretty early (obviously map dependent) Protoss can also use photon overcharge to assist in defense. While P is attacking, now the T will always lose material, and P can escape unpunished, either with T is well positioned or not, because of Recall. See what I did there? Ball is in your court | ||
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theprotagonist
Australia85 Posts
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NeMeSiS24
Australia12 Posts
On March 17 2013 07:51 Swimcito wrote: I Think that Zerg as of right now have two OP things, Abduct from the Viper should not target Massive units, like Colossus and Thor, Period, it should if anything pull the viper towards the thor or colossus, it doesnt make any sence, No matter how strong you are, you cant pull something that is more massive than you while on the air, its just not possible. So vipers abduct stalkers or marauders or something? what is the point in that? | ||
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