EPTTerran hits 5 emps. Protoss hits 5 storms.
Protoss units lose ~1/3 health, Terran loses 100 supply. EMP is good, but not comparable.
Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 259
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Jarree
Finland1004 Posts
Terran hits 5 emps. Protoss hits 5 storms. Protoss units lose ~1/3 health, Terran loses 100 supply. EMP is good, but not comparable. | ||
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
Then remove shield damage from EMP and make Ravens the Terran AOE damage caster. It's stupid to have it only work against one race, anyway. | ||
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FrozenProbe
Italy276 Posts
On July 11 2012 20:08 Jarree wrote: Terran hits 5 emps. Protoss hits 5 storms. Protoss units lose ~1/3 health, Terran loses 100 supply. EMP is good, but not comparable. If you hit 5 EMPs, protoss cannot hit 5 storms.. every terran player from high diamond till mid master (my level) uses 10 ghosts in the composition, 10 EMPs can hit like half of a map is not so hard to land it correctly. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On July 11 2012 20:37 p14c wrote: With HOTS Blizzard should have made high-end units viable. What's the points of introducing so many new units when there are a lot of unused units Also Protoss already had some pretty insane harass units and skills, why giving them more? Blink, prism, phoenix, dark templar, unit warping...I don't know what Blizzard is thinking. It sells. "Oh, this unit now has +2 range" or "that unit now has 15% more DPS" doesn't appeal much to customers for HOTS. Not that they shouldn't do anything about what you suggested, but Blizzard must be busy trying to sell HOTS. | ||
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n0ise
3452 Posts
On July 11 2012 20:58 AngryPenguin wrote: If you hit 5 EMPs, protoss cannot hit 5 storms.. every terran player from high diamond till mid master (my level) uses 10 ghosts in the composition, 10 EMPs can hit like half of a map is not so hard to land it correctly. lol - you need at least 2 emps / archon, which are super easy to just spread, and then every templar comes in one at a time - p has observers, which means I need 3+ scans to engage - 10 emps are nowhere near enough btw - even if storm is ok-ish to defend against, it's impossible to attack into it's sad cos the matchup is otherwise quite fun, pretty balanced overall... but Ps overturning 50 supplies-difference fights ... k lemme quote artosis, haha, he goes like 'Taeja has the upgrade advantage, but MC has storm, so he can negate that' | ||
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HeroMystic
United States1217 Posts
On July 11 2012 02:32 U_G_L_Y wrote: Why doesn't PDD work on roaches and broodlords? I can't see a legitimate reason for it... Do Zergs feel this would be unfair? I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet, but PDD working on Broodlords was actually a glitch. The BL attack actually still hit your army, but right after the initial hit the PDD would eat it, so no additional melee damage from the broodlings. | ||
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Gajarell
Germany29 Posts
Greetings | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
On July 11 2012 21:41 HeroMystic wrote: I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet, but PDD working on Broodlords was actually a glitch. The BL attack actually still hit your army, but right after the initial hit the PDD would eat it, so no additional melee damage from the broodlings. I don't see a problem with this. PDD can be killed afterall, it'll give raven a role in the matchup | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On July 11 2012 02:55 Orek wrote: Balance aside, roach part is probably because it is not projectile type attack. I don't exactly know how point defense drone works storywise, but if it is like catching a ball, then it makes sense not to be able to catch liquid. By the way, now that queen ground attacks are projectile, PDD blocks them after last patch. I don't think it is unfair even if PDD works on BL or roach. In fact, PDD wasting energy on BL broodlings instead of corruptor attacks would probably favor Zerg. PDD used to work vs BL broodlings a while ago. PDD works like the Directed Energy Weapon missile defense systems. It shoots a laser at projectiles and destroys them with heat. From a lore standpoint, it makes sense that this energy beam could vaporize liquid roach acid. I'd assume it doesn't work because of balance, or that no one really considered it before. Certainly makes sense that it'd cook broodlings in their shell tho. | ||
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
On July 11 2012 22:52 Crownlol wrote: PDD works like the Directed Energy Weapon missile defense systems. It shoots a laser at projectiles and destroys them with heat. From a lore standpoint, it makes sense that this energy beam could vaporize liquid roach acid. I'd assume it doesn't work because of balance, or that no one really considered it before. Certainly makes sense that it'd cook broodlings in their shell tho. game logic =/= lore/real world logic It cant shoot its laser on Marine bullets (since there are none) It cant shoot its laser on Tank shells (since there are none) But its pewpew Laser can shoot at a Stalkers pewpew Disruptor A Laser strong enough to cook broodlings alive would also be strong enough to cook marines alive :p | ||
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MiraculiX
Norway22 Posts
If you had to be a much better player to win a standard game. How would that be expressed in statistics we're currently looking at to get an idea of balance? | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
On July 12 2012 16:56 MiraculiX wrote: If it turned out that as a fact terran is much harder to play than the other two races; If you had to be a much better player to win a standard game. How would that be expressed in statistics we're currently looking at to get an idea of balance? I guess there would be no terrans at the highest level of play then. I doubt that everyone that plays terran in GM would easily win GSL if they played protoss or zerg. | ||
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MiraculiX
Norway22 Posts
To me, it seems that to make terran effective at high level you need to able to do stuff only a handfull of people can do. | ||
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LavaLava
United States235 Posts
On July 11 2012 22:52 Crownlol wrote: PDD works like the Directed Energy Weapon missile defense systems. It shoots a laser at projectiles and destroys them with heat. From a lore standpoint, it makes sense that this energy beam could vaporize liquid roach acid. I'd assume it doesn't work because of balance, or that no one really considered it before. Certainly makes sense that it'd cook broodlings in their shell tho. Eh, I'd argue that it doesn't make sense from a lore standpoint. A laser beam can hit an actual missile and blow it up, but a stream of some liquid isn't going to all evaporate because some of it got hit by a laser. How it nullifes BC and Stalker shots, isn't exactly clear, but those seem more reasonable than roach spit. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On July 12 2012 16:56 MiraculiX wrote: If it turned out that as a fact terran is much harder to play than the other two races; If you had to be a much better player to win a standard game. How would that be expressed in statistics we're currently looking at to get an idea of balance? Individual balance issues aside if Terran was overall harder to play it would be reflected in the relative proportions in numbers of players at the very highest level. "Easier" races would have more people at the absolute top level of competition. It would also have an effect on how many wins a race manages to pull off overall in premier tournaments (where you tend to have some of the best people playing) since if it was harder to play a race then you'd see fewer tournament wins. Or perhaps a decent number of wins all from just one really, really good player. Statistically this is absolutely not shown for Terran, in either measure. The current Code S RO32 had more Terrans than either of the others. As did Code A RO48. This year so far Terran has won as many "Premier Tournaments" (going by the Liquipedia page) than Protoss and Zerg put together and from six different players. On July 12 2012 17:26 MiraculiX wrote: Well, there is really just 5-6 terrans in the world kapable of winning anything it seems, and they're all from Korea. To me, it seems that to make terran effective at high level you need to able to do stuff only a handfull of people can do. Starcraft 2. It's not an easy game at the highest level. To make ANY race effective at the highest level you need to be able to do stuff only a handful can do, otherwise we'd all be playing in Code S. Hell, if anything it looks like Terran has more of an abundance of people who can do that "stuff" to a winning level than either Zerg or Protoss right now. Eight premier event wins for Terran have come from six players. Whereas three wins for Protoss have come from two players and five wins for Zerg have come from three players. | ||
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LavaLava
United States235 Posts
Bio demands a lot of multitasking and aggressive play, which intermediate level players can't handle. once "any old thing" stops working and players have to get serious, the Terrans get really frustrated at the lack of mechanically easy options. Higher difficulty isn't as big a problem for really good players as it is for bad players, but you do have to remember Blizzard's priorities for game design: 1. Fun for Everyone 2. Balanced for Professionals 3. Balanced for Everyone 4. Fun for Professionals If the game is too frustrating for lower level and intermediate players, it doesn't matter if each race wins tournaments 33.33% of the time. Not enough people will watch them. I think Blizzard directly acknowledged the desire to round Terran down to level with Zerg and Protoss, when they proposed the battle hellion and the warhound's automatic missiles. They actually said that the ease of these units was intentional because giving Terran any extra clicks would be "mean". I just hope a resolution is found for Wings of Liberty | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On July 12 2012 16:56 MiraculiX wrote: If it turned out that as a fact terran is much harder to play than the other two races; If you had to be a much better player to win a standard game. How would that be expressed in statistics we're currently looking at to get an idea of balance? On ladder, it wouldn't be expressed at all. People would still get 50% win rate no matter what. At the highest level of tournaments you would probably see less Terran, which is what is happening now anyways. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On July 12 2012 17:26 MiraculiX wrote: Well, there is really just 5-6 terrans in the world kapable of winning anything it seems, and they're all from Korea. To me, it seems that to make terran effective at high level you need to able to do stuff only a handfull of people can do. Well if you take that same argument and aplie it too Zerg and Protoss , i can only name 3 Zergs capable of winning anything at the moment and possibly 3 protoss. 95% of the best players in the World are Korean at the moment, if Blizzard are going to balence the game it has to be around those players. Terran are definatly having a tough time at the moment, but lets be honest in the 2 years of SC2 history they have had it pretty good up untill now. Got to wait at least a few months or so to see if that can adapt, if not i am sure Blizz will change it. | ||
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