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Here's what I would do -
Hive takes longer to make
Lair takes longer to make
1/1 Bio takes longer to make
2/2 Bio takes longer to make
3/3 Bio takes longer to make
1/1 Toss takes longer to make
2/2 Toss takes longer to make
3/3 Toss takes longer to make
Remove Colossi
Infestor Slight nerf (something to do with complete stun rather than slow)
Remove Concussive Shell
Make mutas viable TvZ again (idk how)
Queen 4 range again
Remove mothership
Carrier buff (make them 10000000 times more microable)
Implement HoTS units and abilities
Decrease Raven cost or build time or something SLIGHTLY
Lower creep energy cost by 5
Extend the early, mid, and late game for all three races. ZvP and ZvT lategame comes way too fast. No small battles can occur in this because infestor/broodlord and 3/3 for terran and zerg come way too fast. Creep isn't retarded anymore. Muta/ling/bling v marinetank is back and not stupid because of later upgrades for all.
TvP is colossi-less and focused on micro in ghost hightemplar battles (parting v mkp EVERYGAME everyone!?!)
Well, I like my ideas. I think the game would be more fast paced and fun to watch 
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I thought about it and i think it might be a good idea make Queens cost more supply so people think twice about building 6+ Queens so your army is significantly worse if you invest too much into Queens. Or at least limiit the number of Queens somehow . It's meant are a macro mechanic and emergeny defense not as mobile Spines/Spores combined that basically shutdown any aggression at all.
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All this talk of "Zerg is too safe". Well the problem is really that if we're NOT safe, the game is designed so we start falling behind exponentially depending on how much pressure was put on us. The hellion openings were ridiculous because it only costed 400 minerals to hold Zerg in 2 base for several minutes not even having to go in and micro or do any serious damage.
This problem might not be solvable simply because the design of this game is flawed. Personal opinion? I think with the increase in overlord speed, the ghost snipe nerf needs to be reversed because it really did give T a decent way to deal with BLs and with infestors. However in the light of this, it would also become very necessary to nerf the cost-efficiency of MMM while buffing other units like tanks/thors/BCs/ghosts/etc to make a tech transition (and thus not just MMM every match-up) look much more appealing. Right now you can stay on MMM with like 1 tank every round and you have these little fully-functional armies that even if you lose them, your opponent does not get ahead. You do have to do damage with them eventually, but we've seen countless TvZ where Z can be destroying army after army (literally just 1-2 macro cycles coming out of the main) and never managing to get themselves any advantages despite being 2 or even more bases up on a Terran.
However this in turn would require for there to be other unit changes in both Protoss and Zerg lategame units to deal with the new buffs. The largest issue being that I have completely lost any faith in Activision-Blizzard's ability to gauge what is wrong with the game. They are taking such a passive stance with the beta of the Arcade (super-lol catering to only casuals) and with HotS right around the corner. I guess they figure the new units will somehow fix everything. Honestly, I expect the first few months of HotS's release to be nothing short of a complete trainwreck.
They won't even address that hacking is so common now, every single league level is reporting tons of matches with many accounts. Its bnet in BW all over again, and we know how that ended. The complete end of Bnet usage or credibility. Ladder is stressful enough trying to fight your way to the top without looking at a third of your games and realizing "holy crap he proxied without even scouting" or "wow he spent 15 seconds looking at my base but what should've been fog of war to him". It makes defeat that much more bitter and infuriating when you realize it was a hack you lost to, not anything you personally did wrong in your mechanics.
I guess we'll just have to wait until all the tens of patches that come out post-HotS settle to see where the game really lies in terms of balance. Not to scare anyone... but has anyone else realized that we're going to have to go through all this balance BS over again in the Protoss expansion with its new units and countless patches? How many years are players going to have to wait before the game sees a decent stage of every game where victories are possible? Right now all races, not just Zerg are enjoying incredibly cheap fast expansions. People are just targetting Zerg because the only response we can have to greed is more greed unless you're some moron stuck in the past who thinks 14/14 all-ins still work against decent FFE Protoss or 1 rax FE Terrans.
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Fungal not hitting air units would do so much to help TvZ. Drops could retain some effectiveness once zerg reaches the 6 spines/spores to every base point, (where they essentially become pretty useless unless you heavily commit). More importantly, ravens would have viability vs blord/corrupter/infestor and vikings wouldn't just die in the case of a single good fungal. It would be a hefty nerf and I can't really assess the impact it would have on ZvP, or fully in TvZ obviously, but it seems like something that could help the terran late game significantly, (maybe too much so though).
I'm personally fine with the queen change if something is done to help the terran late game. It's a pain killing the crazy amount of creep zergs are spreading these days but it adds, (or intensifies) an interesting dynamic of stopping creep spread and requires multitasking from both sides. The queen change has made ZvZ a watchable matchup and hopefully a funner one to play. Plus it has helped the alleged weakness of the zerg early game...it would seem somewhat sad to revert it in my opinion.
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Without Fungal in ZvZ Mutas would probably have no counter unit anymore. It needs a nerf against air but not hitting air at all is probably too much. No root ( maybe slow though ) and reduced damage to air is my idea.
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On June 20 2012 10:11 Absentia wrote:
Fungal not hitting air units would do so much to help TvZ. Drops could retain some effectiveness once zerg reaches the 6 spines/spores to every base point, (where they essentially become pretty useless unless you heavily commit). More importantly, ravens would have viability vs blord/corrupter/infestor and vikings wouldn't just die in the case of a single good fungal. It would be a hefty nerf and I can't really assess the impact it would have on ZvP, or fully in TvZ obviously, but it seems like something that could help the terran late game significantly, (maybe too much so though).
I've seen a lot of people suggesting this. Nerfing the air-hitting ability of Infestors would be far more game-breaking in ZvT than the queen changes.
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On June 20 2012 10:29 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 10:11 Absentia wrote:
Fungal not hitting air units would do so much to help TvZ. Drops could retain some effectiveness once zerg reaches the 6 spines/spores to every base point, (where they essentially become pretty useless unless you heavily commit). More importantly, ravens would have viability vs blord/corrupter/infestor and vikings wouldn't just die in the case of a single good fungal. It would be a hefty nerf and I can't really assess the impact it would have on ZvP, or fully in TvZ obviously, but it seems like something that could help the terran late game significantly, (maybe too much so though).
I've seen a lot of people suggesting this. Nerfing the air-hitting ability of Infestors would be far more game-breaking in ZvT than the queen changes.
Idk if Banshees,BC's could be an answer to Ling/Infestors/Ultra style seems like a good idea . Its not like Terran Air doesn't get countered by Mutas/Corruptors or strangely enough Hydras pretty hard.
Right now Fungal is just too versitile . Stuff that gets caught by fungal right now is just dead that doesn't seem like a very good idea either . Even in ZvZ i HATE it how easily Infestors completely shutdown Mutas.
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Here's your solution: Fungal does not snare Massive units. ***MIND BLOWN***
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On June 20 2012 10:38 SC_Ghost wrote:
Here's your solution: Fungal does not snare Massive units. ***MIND BLOWN***
?
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On June 20 2012 10:38 SC_Ghost wrote:
Here's your solution: Fungal does not snare Massive units. ***MIND BLOWN***
This would help pvZ a bit too, what with Archons no longer being eternally fungalled.
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On June 20 2012 07:01 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 06:55 mlspmatt wrote:On June 19 2012 23:08 Stormiii wrote:On June 19 2012 22:57 -Archangel- wrote:
BTW, to people whining about TvZ: The problem will be fixed once terrans start using Ghosts again to emp/snipe infestors/queens. Broodlord/infestor/queen/corrupter army does not work if infestors/queens have no energy.
With ghost snipe nerf T stopped using them for EMP as well which was stupid But you realize the problem is that early game you can't harass, which means zerg gets sick economy, which means you get overrun. Nothing to do with latelategame. It's only been a couple weeks since the patch. Too early to make any judgements about balance. Give it some time to settle in. HOTS is coming so everything will change regardless. Well the harass beeing shutdown won't change. Its not like there's a Terran unit that can be used early on for harass other then stimless bio , helions or banshees which gets shutdown by queens and a few lings if need be. You need to force the Zerg to build units from Larva else the Zerg eco will be just better than yours.
The meta game will change and terrans will transition to more macro oriented openings, get upgrades faster, skip hellions in favor of other harass.
People just like to bitch instead of waiting to see how things play out. Often times breakthrough's in Meta game come when play style is forced to adapt.
I like long macro games. The recent patch will force more games towards late game play. Right now, that doesn't favor terran but some of the factory units in HOTS are pretty damn good.
The Warhound will be badass vs Toss. 23 dmg with a 1.3 cooldown, 7 range, 2.85 movement speed and an extra autocastable attack vs armored. Thats a badass ground unit that will also be useful vs Ultras and rape roaches. And it's only 150/75.
The Battle hellion will be ridiculously good vs ling infestor plays. Reams and reams of lings will be toast and fungal won't domuch vs 145 HP units.
And these new spider mines are crazy. 200 dmg + splash for a 75/25 unit? That's crazy.
I wasn't thrilled about Terrans new units but I'm getting pretty optimistic about the latest additions. Factory play will be so much more viable. That HOTS clip where a group of battle hellions and Warhounds demolosh a Stalker, Zealot, Colossus force was almost a joke it was so easy.
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On June 20 2012 10:41 mlspmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 07:01 s3rp wrote:On June 20 2012 06:55 mlspmatt wrote:On June 19 2012 23:08 Stormiii wrote:On June 19 2012 22:57 -Archangel- wrote:
BTW, to people whining about TvZ: The problem will be fixed once terrans start using Ghosts again to emp/snipe infestors/queens. Broodlord/infestor/queen/corrupter army does not work if infestors/queens have no energy.
With ghost snipe nerf T stopped using them for EMP as well which was stupid But you realize the problem is that early game you can't harass, which means zerg gets sick economy, which means you get overrun. Nothing to do with latelategame. It's only been a couple weeks since the patch. Too early to make any judgements about balance. Give it some time to settle in. HOTS is coming so everything will change regardless. Well the harass beeing shutdown won't change. Its not like there's a Terran unit that can be used early on for harass other then stimless bio , helions or banshees which gets shutdown by queens and a few lings if need be. You need to force the Zerg to build units from Larva else the Zerg eco will be just better than yours. The meta game will change and terrans will transition to more macro oriented openings, get upgrades faster, skip hellions in favor of other harass. People just like to bitch instead of waiting to see how things play out. Often times breakthrough's in Meta game come when play style is forced to adapt. I like long macro games. The recent patch will force more games towards late game play. Right now, that doesn't favor terran but some of the factory units in HOTS are pretty damn good. The Warhound will be badass vs Toss. 23 dmg with a 1.3 cooldown, 7 range, 2.85 movement speed and an extra autocastable attack vs armored. Thats a badass ground unit that will also be useful vs Ultras and rape roaches. And it's only 150/75. The Battle hellion will be ridiculously good vs ling infestor plays. Reams and reams of lings will be toast and fungal won't domuch vs 145 HP units. And these new spider mines are crazy. 200 dmg + splash for a 75/25 unit? That's crazy. I wasn't thrilled about Terrans new units but I'm getting pretty optimistic about the latest additions. Factory play will be so much more viable. That HOTS clip where a group of battle hellions and Warhounds demolosh a Stalker, Zealot, Colossus force was almost a joke it was so easy.
As long as Mech doesn't get better all-around units which that you can respond with to counters/runbys of anything but Lings i don't see it becoming more viable than it is right now. PF's die very very fast against a good amount of units if you can't respond with your army fast enough.
Btw in the current metagame if you open greedy to respond to the Zerg you're very open to be all-inned and its very hard to scout and see what the Zerg with the buffed Queen these days. I also don't think skipping Helions/Banshees consistently is a good idea .You can only harass once Stim is out which means the creepspread be will halfway across the map on smaller even almost in your own base before you can do anything against it without losing your units you move out with.
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On June 20 2012 10:14 s3rp wrote:
Without Fungal in ZvZ Mutas would probably have no counter unit anymore. It needs a nerf against air but not hitting air at all is probably too much. No root ( maybe slow though ) and reduced damage to air is my idea.
Lets keep it real. The core design of 40 mutas on one hot key has serious issues.
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On June 20 2012 10:58 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 10:14 s3rp wrote:
Without Fungal in ZvZ Mutas would probably have no counter unit anymore. It needs a nerf against air but not hitting air at all is probably too much. No root ( maybe slow though ) and reduced damage to air is my idea. Lets keep it real. The core design of 40 mutas on one hot key has serious issues.
But should one caster/spell shutdown just about every airplay so freaking hard ?
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On June 20 2012 11:03 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 10:58 Sabu113 wrote:On June 20 2012 10:14 s3rp wrote:
Without Fungal in ZvZ Mutas would probably have no counter unit anymore. It needs a nerf against air but not hitting air at all is probably too much. No root ( maybe slow though ) and reduced damage to air is my idea. Lets keep it real. The core design of 40 mutas on one hot key has serious issues. But should one caster/spell shutdown just about every airplay so freaking hard ?
I also want to add on that even without Infestors, Zerg still has Mutas which outright destroys drop play, and Corruptors to get rid of any Sky Terran-esque builds. And if you really wanna go that far, Hydras are pretty damn good GtA units. If ZvZ is the -only- reason why Infestors are as good as they vs Air, then Blizzard needs to get a new balance team.
I don't want to jump on the "Infestors are OP" bandwagon, but it's extremely true that Infestors are far too versatile. Outside of Mutaling, there is not one unit composition where Infestors aren't included, and Mutaling has been phased out of the metagame for the most part. Not even High Templars are as useful as Infestors, which actually irritates me because HT and Ghosts got nerfed and no matter how many times we tell Blizzard to revert it they don't, but the Infestor nerfs don't even last for 2 weeks in testing.
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On June 20 2012 09:38 s3rp wrote:
I thought about it and i think it might be a good idea make Queens cost more supply so people think twice about building 6+ Queens so your army is significantly worse if you invest too much into Queens. Or at least limiit the number of Queens somehow . It's meant are a macro mechanic and emergeny defense not as mobile Spines/Spores combined that basically shutdown any aggression at all.
I really like this idea. Right now queens fulfill too many functions and provide too much utility for the Zerg.
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On June 20 2012 11:35 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:38 s3rp wrote:
I thought about it and i think it might be a good idea make Queens cost more supply so people think twice about building 6+ Queens so your army is significantly worse if you invest too much into Queens. Or at least limiit the number of Queens somehow . It's meant are a macro mechanic and emergeny defense not as mobile Spines/Spores combined that basically shutdown any aggression at all. I really like this idea. Right now queens fulfill too many functions and provide too much utility for the Zerg.
Can we have MULES cost supply when deployed then?
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On June 20 2012 11:59 Ziggitz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 11:35 zmansman17 wrote:On June 20 2012 09:38 s3rp wrote:
I thought about it and i think it might be a good idea make Queens cost more supply so people think twice about building 6+ Queens so your army is significantly worse if you invest too much into Queens. Or at least limiit the number of Queens somehow . It's meant are a macro mechanic and emergeny defense not as mobile Spines/Spores combined that basically shutdown any aggression at all. I really like this idea. Right now queens fulfill too many functions and provide too much utility for the Zerg. Can we have MULES cost supply when deployed then?
No. The two aren't even close to being the same thing. I didn't think anyone complained about MULEs anymore.
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On June 20 2012 11:59 Ziggitz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 11:35 zmansman17 wrote:On June 20 2012 09:38 s3rp wrote:
I thought about it and i think it might be a good idea make Queens cost more supply so people think twice about building 6+ Queens so your army is significantly worse if you invest too much into Queens. Or at least limiit the number of Queens somehow . It's meant are a macro mechanic and emergeny defense not as mobile Spines/Spores combined that basically shutdown any aggression at all. I really like this idea. Right now queens fulfill too many functions and provide too much utility for the Zerg. Can we have MULES cost supply when deployed then?
If SCV's lose their supply cost while building something we can talk about that.
Btw i've just had a better idea than more supply make Queens cost more the more you build ( obviosly with a max cost at lets say 400 or something ) . The first you get for example would be just buildtime than say 50 mins then 100 etc etc.
Queens should be investement for how freaking strong they are and what they offer . Not replacement for Larca units while just only build Drones until you're saturated for the whole freaking game.
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On June 20 2012 11:31 HeroMystic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 11:03 s3rp wrote:On June 20 2012 10:58 Sabu113 wrote:On June 20 2012 10:14 s3rp wrote:
Without Fungal in ZvZ Mutas would probably have no counter unit anymore. It needs a nerf against air but not hitting air at all is probably too much. No root ( maybe slow though ) and reduced damage to air is my idea. Lets keep it real. The core design of 40 mutas on one hot key has serious issues. But should one caster/spell shutdown just about every airplay so freaking hard ? I also want to add on that even without Infestors, Zerg still has Mutas which outright destroys drop play, and Corruptors to get rid of any Sky Terran-esque builds. And if you really wanna go that far, Hydras are pretty damn good GtA units. If ZvZ is the -only- reason why Infestors are as good as they vs Air, then Blizzard needs to get a new balance team. I don't want to jump on the "Infestors are OP" bandwagon, but it's extremely true that Infestors are far too versatile. Outside of Mutaling, there is not one unit composition where Infestors aren't included, and Mutaling has been phased out of the metagame for the most part. Not even High Templars are as useful as Infestors, which actually irritates me because HT and Ghosts got nerfed and no matter how many times we tell Blizzard to revert it they don't, but the Infestor nerfs don't even last for 2 weeks in testing.
HTs, infestors and Ghosts should not be considered together just because they are spell casters.
They serve a very different role.
EMP nerf was to deal with HTs in TvP mostly due to how easy it was for terran to EMP and single handed melt the toss army within seconds. This was also to help the toss to have a better time at the "dancing".
Snipe nerf imo, was a better change than the EMP. The snipes were way too cost efficient against any units. The GSL match of MKP and symbol really shows how cost inefficient a zerg has to be at breaking a turtling terran, nydus, drop, broodlords, ultras etc.
HTs nerf was extremely needed, I couldn't see any reason not to have that energy upgrade removed. Protoss remax already is proven to be troublesome, now imagine the HTs remaxed have enough energy for a storm.
Infestors did get nerfed, fungal damage and np's range both got nerfed, its movement speed got nerfed. Is it too powerful imo? Yes, but even so, we don't have any lair tech unit available, muta is phased out almost completely in ZvT, and infestors nerf in ZvP killed the ling infestors and made it back to mass roach style.
I normally would associate infestors to sentries, prevent micro: check. Serves multiple purposes (both offensive and defensive): check. can mix into any standard unit composition: check
'but forcefields don't do damage'- think about how much more damage toss army can deal in comparison to a zerg's, especially when zerg's army got forcefielded and cutting off reinforcement. Now add guardian shield and chokepoints and splash damage from colossus/HTs.
I reckon infestors could use a nerf if only a new lair tech unit is available or a new lair tech upgrade that is not gimmicky like burrow roach movement. Then the zerg will have an option to prolong midgame and delay hive tech
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EPT
