Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 234

On June 18 2012 17:26 Eps wrote:


Not to mention the amount of micro required in making sure Ghosts weren't caught by some AOE Fungals, Splash or out of position. Compareed with the micro required to use Ghosts effectively against the relatively easier to use Broodlord/Ultras, I'm not sure what the problem is.
It was essentially the only late-game unit counter that Terran had that was good.

On June 18 2012 23:06 Zealos wrote:

The mothership isn't going to be stationary. On topic - I feel like, with terrans often having an excess of gas in the late game, they should experiment more often with the raven. For instance, Thorzain versus Sheth on Metropolis during the RBL had some good raven usage.

On June 19 2012 04:37 ZenithM wrote:

This is true. Moreover, some of these nerfs (siege tank) happened in beta, which makes them even less relevant. Remember that Roaches were 1 supply and had 2 armor and monstrous regen back then :D

On June 19 2012 05:48 HeroMystic wrote:


Siege Tank was nerfed shortly after retail (50 damage to 35 +15 vs Armored). Just sayin'.

On June 18 2012 00:32 sCCrooked wrote:
So now its 2 threads being filled with this useless whining against Z? I still have one question that has not been answered in the least and is in fact the single most important thing anyone should be focusing on.

"Why are you trying to use the statistics of top Korean professionals to excuse your own issues in the vs Zerg matchup?"

The reason for this question is simple. According to the source you all are trying to use as some sort of proof as your vs Zerg issues, the international winrates are still even. Only the Korean winrate showed any sort of a balance skew and the timing of this statistic being taken is not even being noticed. The update happened right in the middle of the month and thus the stat. So already, the one thing that you guys are touting around as the ultimate proof that "Z is op" "T/P need buffs" is already shown to be a bad example.

This is all circumventing the main issue that you are all foreigner ladderers whether you like thinking of yourselves as that or not. You are not top Korean Code S pros and thusly you are NOT included at all in any way in that Korean statistic that showed the skew in TvZ. You can't claim your playstyle is up the par of MKP or the likes of him and you certainly can't claim that the Zergs you are facing are on par with the Code S Zergs either. Before anyone claims "Oh well my MMR puts me against pros sometimes", well then get the top Koreans to start whining like all of you are and maybe we'll be more interested in listening.

Otherwise, this is all just speculation from lower level ladder people who aren't even pro trying to use a pro stat that only took top Korean levels of skill into consideration. Do you realize how ridiculous and sad that makes your arguments look? You simply do not face the same levels of skill nor do you possess them so until the entire teams or Prime SlayerS etc come forward with these sorts of "whaaa balance whaaa my race whaaa buffs please", I just don't see the point in all this senseless excuse-making.

As for Protoss? Your situation isn't that skewed on the international level either. That same Korean stat shows that T or P have always been #1 in winrates while Z has been forced into #2 or more commonly the #3 spots. Before anyone tries to bring up the current GSTL winrates, that league is not even finished, do not try to use it as any sort of proof until it is.

If this month turns up with ridiculous Zerg winrates too, I'll retract my statements that the whining at the pro level is inexcusable but the whining at our level, the "common gamer" level is still ridiculous and its making the game a lot less appealing.

I'm running into countless T and P at the freaking top diamond/low-to-mid masters level on the NA server who literally BM me in the middle of games when they realize they're losing or who message me a thousand times after the game telling me my race is "easy" and "overpowered" and "zerg is instant-masters level" so that is why I was able to win. Not that I spend 6+ hours a day gaming. Not that I spend 2+ hours on top of the 6+ trying to watch VODs and learn from things like Belial's guides and memorizing builds. This attitude is beyond annoying and needs to be dealt with. Zerg have always been the underdogs until literally 3.5 weeks ago. We've been constantly having to adapt to Terran and Protoss builds changing because we're the reactionary race that has to react properly or we flat-out die. Perhaps its time you guys learned to change and react instead of trying to excuse your non-pro macro, non-pro decision making and non-pro mistakes.

Lastly, I dare anyone to seriously go up to DongRaeGue and tell him he shouldn't feel good at all about winning MLG because "he plays the easy race" and "it was stacked against both his T and P opponents in racial balance" or that he didn't deserve it. Because that is literally the attitude you people who side with this whining are portraying.

/rant off

On June 19 2012 20:42 Coffee Zombie wrote:
Yeah DRG pretty much said that the Terran's play just doesn't matter anymore. All that matters is whether DRG himself made a blunder or not. If he didn't, lights out for T.

On June 19 2012 20:42 Coffee Zombie wrote:
Yeah DRG pretty much said that the Terran's play just doesn't matter anymore. All that matters is whether DRG himself made a blunder or not. If he didn't, lights out for T.

On June 19 2012 21:26 -Archangel- wrote:

That means shit about overall balance. Just because best player in the world thinks he always wins against Terrans unless he makes a mistakes means nothing. It would same as whining Terran is imba in BW because Flash always won if he played well.

On June 19 2012 21:26 -Archangel- wrote:

That means shit about overall balance. Just because best player in the world thinks he always wins against Terrans unless he makes a mistakes means nothing. It would same as whining Terran is imba in BW because Flash always won if he played well.

On June 19 2012 21:31 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:


DRG has never been the best player in the world. he himself believes terran i sgarbage and fluffs it in interviews while still sending his point across to smart enough people, or just anybody who doesnt want to cover their eyes

and lol MMA was the best tvz player after Mvp did get all his build nerfed to oblivion, and he cant beat foreigner nowadays. Sen in particular who is weaker than Boxer in tvz. for god sake

On June 19 2012 21:07 SC_Ghost wrote:
Watch MarineKingPrime vs TSLSymbol for the entirety of the TvZ match-up. TvZ in its current form is far from "in good shape". After mid-game it's a long and inevitable struggle to cover ground for Terran. The current metagame is leading to Terrans playing more of an early, heavily aggressive style; rarely going further than 3 bases. If the game goes longer, Terran will find it harder to secure further bases, leading to a turtle-centric late-game style with drops being your strongest form of aggression (if Zerg vision is as efficient as it should be, drops shouldn't deal a significant amount of damage).

TvZ needs someone or something to turn the match-up on its head or you will end up with T proxy pushes or Z slowly winning the game by making no mistakes.

On June 19 2012 22:57 -Archangel- wrote:
BTW, to people whining about TvZ: The problem will be fixed once terrans start using Ghosts again to emp/snipe infestors/queens. Broodlord/infestor/queen/corrupter army does not work if infestors/queens have no energy.

With ghost snipe nerf T stopped using them for EMP as well which was stupid