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On September 26 2011 17:54 love4every1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 17:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:46 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:28 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:11 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:09 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:05 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 16:48 VirgilSC2 wrote:
....if only Storm did guaranteed effects like Fungal and EMP, it might be worth comparing the two.
You can't micro out of EMP, or Fungal, but you can micro out of Storm. I think that's the biggest discrepancy between the spells. You also don't die from emp. You die from the follow up. Which is the same with storm. Any good storm will either punish the terran from entering close enough to attack, or delay the engagement. The difference is EMP isn't designed to kill. Storm is. Seeing as it does shield damage, which is basically health, I'd say it is very much is designed to kill. Also, I'm trying to gauge why you posted that? O_o You said it yourself "You also don't die from EMP." Storm is a spell designed to kill enemy units. EMP is a spell designed to neutralize enemy casters, and lessen the effectiveness of the Protoss army. If we're comparing similar spells here, short of the AoE, Feedback is a closer spell to EMP than Storm is. However, that was not the intended design. EMP is not designed to be a killing blow, while Storm is, however EMP does its job easily, while any competent player can negate ~35%+ of the designed effectiveness of Storm. What?? Just because it doesn't do the finishing blow doesn't mean it wasn't designed to kill. Seeing as it takes 100 shields, I would say that blizzard proooobably meant for it to be a damage dealer. Also, you know 65% of storm is still 52 damage right? As in, the terran is basically dead. And just because protoss can't use storms competently doesn't mean that it's terrans fault. Two storms will stop every bio advance outright, if not killing it immediately. Emp stops advancing protoss. If I shoot you in the heart, it's fatal, and will kill. If I shoot you in the leg, unless I hit the artery, while it does damage to you, it's not going to kill you. "Doing the finishing blow" is the act of killing, which EMP can NEVER do, in ANY engagement or scenario. That 52 hypothetical damage? You have units floating overhead that heal during, and after the Storm, Protoss does not have that luxury. You're blaming Protoss players for ineffectively using Storm? Are you really that blind that you can say EVERY Terran player is smart enough to use EMP effectively, and the reason Protoss players can't use Storm as effectively is because of user error? Sorry, I can speak for the entire Protoss player-base when I apologize for our slow, defenseless, uncloaked, damage over time spellcaster isn't as effective as your cloaked, longer ranged, attacking, spammable, instantaneous spellcaster. Probably because you didn't have the micro to pull off using warp prisms in your play, or more likely haven't even tried it yet. Those units overhead? The cost army supply and money. And guess what?? They get the crap beaten out of them with storm too. And if you're really going to pull that card, do you want me to bring up the fact that you regenerate any lost health to emp over time, the same as medivacs, except without having to buy units? And I'll give you that it isn't the killing blow, but I'll bring up a better point: why does your point even matter? So emp and storm have different uses. The units aren't designed to be identical. The entire point I'm making is that they AREN'T identical. Why should I be forced to devote extra APM to Warp Prism dropping, unit selecting, and Storm casting when you just hit Shift + E and blanket my whole army? Protoss units don't regenerate shields in combat, while Medivacs heal damage at a greater rate during combat. I'm sure if Protoss could invest Army Supply and Money into a regenerating unit they would do so in every matchup. The point I'm trying to make is that Storm and EMP are two completely different spells, and one is significantly less effective, while the INTENDED DESIGN is for them to be very close to equally effective. You would ue the extra APM because though you know emp is easier, the reward for storm is much, much greater. As in, you would do it because you would want to win. Mark my words, you're going to see warp prisms ht play in pro games in the not too distant future. Healing a unit only works if it isn't dead. Also, those spells aren't designed to be equally effective. The units are.
Well wouldn't you know? Ghosts are easily 5x as effective as High Templar.
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On September 26 2011 17:53 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 17:49 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:38 Thrombozyt wrote:On September 26 2011 16:48 VirgilSC2 wrote:
....if only Storm did guaranteed effects like Fungal and EMP, it might be worth comparing the two.
You can't micro out of EMP, or Fungal, but you can micro out of Storm. I think that's the biggest discrepancy between the spells. Storm has a guaranteed effect: It does initial damage - usually around 20, because even if you storm while they are already running, you will hit them. After that storm always has one of two effects: 1) It deals more damage. 2) It prevents damage as the opponent is running So yes, the opponent can choose between eating damage and not dealing damage... but storms have a guaranteed effect. The other two "similar" spells don't allow a choice, you either: a) Disengage after taking the full effect of the spell b) Continue to engage after taking the full effect of the spell. Storm results in: a) Disengaging after taking partial effects of the spell b) Eating the full effect of the spell c) Engaging after taking partial effects of the spell See the difference? Yes, I do. Storm will do the same percentage damage to my units in one second that emp will do, except storm has the option of doing even more damage and providing positional advantage. So... ? At this point I'm going to stop acknowledging your posts because it's obvious now that you're trolling.
Sorry I have a response to all your arguments. :shrugs:
I still remember the days protoss was unstoppable, and it was storm that was doing it. Terrans found a way to negate it. Now protoss have a way to bring it back.
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On September 26 2011 17:56 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 17:54 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:46 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:28 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:11 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:09 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:05 love4every1 wrote:
[quote]
You also don't die from emp. You die from the follow up. Which is the same with storm.
Any good storm will either punish the terran from entering close enough to attack, or delay the engagement. The difference is EMP isn't designed to kill. Storm is. Seeing as it does shield damage, which is basically health, I'd say it is very much is designed to kill. Also, I'm trying to gauge why you posted that? O_o You said it yourself "You also don't die from EMP." Storm is a spell designed to kill enemy units. EMP is a spell designed to neutralize enemy casters, and lessen the effectiveness of the Protoss army. If we're comparing similar spells here, short of the AoE, Feedback is a closer spell to EMP than Storm is. However, that was not the intended design. EMP is not designed to be a killing blow, while Storm is, however EMP does its job easily, while any competent player can negate ~35%+ of the designed effectiveness of Storm. What?? Just because it doesn't do the finishing blow doesn't mean it wasn't designed to kill. Seeing as it takes 100 shields, I would say that blizzard proooobably meant for it to be a damage dealer. Also, you know 65% of storm is still 52 damage right? As in, the terran is basically dead. And just because protoss can't use storms competently doesn't mean that it's terrans fault. Two storms will stop every bio advance outright, if not killing it immediately. Emp stops advancing protoss. If I shoot you in the heart, it's fatal, and will kill. If I shoot you in the leg, unless I hit the artery, while it does damage to you, it's not going to kill you. "Doing the finishing blow" is the act of killing, which EMP can NEVER do, in ANY engagement or scenario. That 52 hypothetical damage? You have units floating overhead that heal during, and after the Storm, Protoss does not have that luxury. You're blaming Protoss players for ineffectively using Storm? Are you really that blind that you can say EVERY Terran player is smart enough to use EMP effectively, and the reason Protoss players can't use Storm as effectively is because of user error? Sorry, I can speak for the entire Protoss player-base when I apologize for our slow, defenseless, uncloaked, damage over time spellcaster isn't as effective as your cloaked, longer ranged, attacking, spammable, instantaneous spellcaster. Probably because you didn't have the micro to pull off using warp prisms in your play, or more likely haven't even tried it yet. Those units overhead? The cost army supply and money. And guess what?? They get the crap beaten out of them with storm too. And if you're really going to pull that card, do you want me to bring up the fact that you regenerate any lost health to emp over time, the same as medivacs, except without having to buy units? And I'll give you that it isn't the killing blow, but I'll bring up a better point: why does your point even matter? So emp and storm have different uses. The units aren't designed to be identical. The entire point I'm making is that they AREN'T identical. Why should I be forced to devote extra APM to Warp Prism dropping, unit selecting, and Storm casting when you just hit Shift + E and blanket my whole army? Protoss units don't regenerate shields in combat, while Medivacs heal damage at a greater rate during combat. I'm sure if Protoss could invest Army Supply and Money into a regenerating unit they would do so in every matchup. The point I'm trying to make is that Storm and EMP are two completely different spells, and one is significantly less effective, while the INTENDED DESIGN is for them to be very close to equally effective. You would ue the extra APM because though you know emp is easier, the reward for storm is much, much greater. As in, you would do it because you would want to win. Mark my words, you're going to see warp prisms ht play in pro games in the not too distant future. Healing a unit only works if it isn't dead. Also, those spells aren't designed to be equally effective. The units are. Well wouldn't you know? Ghosts are easily 5x as effective as High Templar.
Pre-patch. We'll see 
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On September 26 2011 17:57 love4every1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 17:56 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:54 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:46 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:28 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:11 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:09 VirgilSC2 wrote:
[quote]
The difference is EMP isn't designed to kill. Storm is.
Seeing as it does shield damage, which is basically health, I'd say it is very much is designed to kill. Also, I'm trying to gauge why you posted that? O_o You said it yourself "You also don't die from EMP." Storm is a spell designed to kill enemy units. EMP is a spell designed to neutralize enemy casters, and lessen the effectiveness of the Protoss army. If we're comparing similar spells here, short of the AoE, Feedback is a closer spell to EMP than Storm is. However, that was not the intended design. EMP is not designed to be a killing blow, while Storm is, however EMP does its job easily, while any competent player can negate ~35%+ of the designed effectiveness of Storm. What?? Just because it doesn't do the finishing blow doesn't mean it wasn't designed to kill. Seeing as it takes 100 shields, I would say that blizzard proooobably meant for it to be a damage dealer. Also, you know 65% of storm is still 52 damage right? As in, the terran is basically dead. And just because protoss can't use storms competently doesn't mean that it's terrans fault. Two storms will stop every bio advance outright, if not killing it immediately. Emp stops advancing protoss. If I shoot you in the heart, it's fatal, and will kill. If I shoot you in the leg, unless I hit the artery, while it does damage to you, it's not going to kill you. "Doing the finishing blow" is the act of killing, which EMP can NEVER do, in ANY engagement or scenario. That 52 hypothetical damage? You have units floating overhead that heal during, and after the Storm, Protoss does not have that luxury. You're blaming Protoss players for ineffectively using Storm? Are you really that blind that you can say EVERY Terran player is smart enough to use EMP effectively, and the reason Protoss players can't use Storm as effectively is because of user error? Sorry, I can speak for the entire Protoss player-base when I apologize for our slow, defenseless, uncloaked, damage over time spellcaster isn't as effective as your cloaked, longer ranged, attacking, spammable, instantaneous spellcaster. Probably because you didn't have the micro to pull off using warp prisms in your play, or more likely haven't even tried it yet. Those units overhead? The cost army supply and money. And guess what?? They get the crap beaten out of them with storm too. And if you're really going to pull that card, do you want me to bring up the fact that you regenerate any lost health to emp over time, the same as medivacs, except without having to buy units? And I'll give you that it isn't the killing blow, but I'll bring up a better point: why does your point even matter? So emp and storm have different uses. The units aren't designed to be identical. The entire point I'm making is that they AREN'T identical. Why should I be forced to devote extra APM to Warp Prism dropping, unit selecting, and Storm casting when you just hit Shift + E and blanket my whole army? Protoss units don't regenerate shields in combat, while Medivacs heal damage at a greater rate during combat. I'm sure if Protoss could invest Army Supply and Money into a regenerating unit they would do so in every matchup. The point I'm trying to make is that Storm and EMP are two completely different spells, and one is significantly less effective, while the INTENDED DESIGN is for them to be very close to equally effective. You would ue the extra APM because though you know emp is easier, the reward for storm is much, much greater. As in, you would do it because you would want to win. Mark my words, you're going to see warp prisms ht play in pro games in the not too distant future. Healing a unit only works if it isn't dead. Also, those spells aren't designed to be equally effective. The units are. Well wouldn't you know? Ghosts are easily 5x as effective as High Templar. Pre-patch. We'll see
There was not a single change this patch that effected either Ghosts or High Templars. On a unit vs unit comparison, nothing has changed.
On September 26 2011 17:56 love4every1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 17:53 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:49 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:38 Thrombozyt wrote:On September 26 2011 16:48 VirgilSC2 wrote:
....if only Storm did guaranteed effects like Fungal and EMP, it might be worth comparing the two.
You can't micro out of EMP, or Fungal, but you can micro out of Storm. I think that's the biggest discrepancy between the spells. Storm has a guaranteed effect: It does initial damage - usually around 20, because even if you storm while they are already running, you will hit them. After that storm always has one of two effects: 1) It deals more damage. 2) It prevents damage as the opponent is running So yes, the opponent can choose between eating damage and not dealing damage... but storms have a guaranteed effect. The other two "similar" spells don't allow a choice, you either: a) Disengage after taking the full effect of the spell b) Continue to engage after taking the full effect of the spell. Storm results in: a) Disengaging after taking partial effects of the spell b) Eating the full effect of the spell c) Engaging after taking partial effects of the spell See the difference? Yes, I do. Storm will do the same percentage damage to my units in one second that emp will do, except storm has the option of doing even more damage and providing positional advantage. So... ? At this point I'm going to stop acknowledging your posts because it's obvious now that you're trolling. Sorry I have a response to all your arguments. :shrugs: I still remember the days protoss was unstoppable, and it was storm that was doing it. Terrans found a way to negate it. Now protoss have a way to bring it back.
Protoss was never unstoppable and there are numbers that prove it.
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On September 26 2011 17:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 17:57 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:56 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:54 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:46 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:28 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:11 love4every1 wrote:
[quote]
Seeing as it does shield damage, which is basically health, I'd say it is very much is designed to kill. Also, I'm trying to gauge why you posted that? O_o You said it yourself "You also don't die from EMP." Storm is a spell designed to kill enemy units. EMP is a spell designed to neutralize enemy casters, and lessen the effectiveness of the Protoss army. If we're comparing similar spells here, short of the AoE, Feedback is a closer spell to EMP than Storm is. However, that was not the intended design. EMP is not designed to be a killing blow, while Storm is, however EMP does its job easily, while any competent player can negate ~35%+ of the designed effectiveness of Storm. What?? Just because it doesn't do the finishing blow doesn't mean it wasn't designed to kill. Seeing as it takes 100 shields, I would say that blizzard proooobably meant for it to be a damage dealer. Also, you know 65% of storm is still 52 damage right? As in, the terran is basically dead. And just because protoss can't use storms competently doesn't mean that it's terrans fault. Two storms will stop every bio advance outright, if not killing it immediately. Emp stops advancing protoss. If I shoot you in the heart, it's fatal, and will kill. If I shoot you in the leg, unless I hit the artery, while it does damage to you, it's not going to kill you. "Doing the finishing blow" is the act of killing, which EMP can NEVER do, in ANY engagement or scenario. That 52 hypothetical damage? You have units floating overhead that heal during, and after the Storm, Protoss does not have that luxury. You're blaming Protoss players for ineffectively using Storm? Are you really that blind that you can say EVERY Terran player is smart enough to use EMP effectively, and the reason Protoss players can't use Storm as effectively is because of user error? Sorry, I can speak for the entire Protoss player-base when I apologize for our slow, defenseless, uncloaked, damage over time spellcaster isn't as effective as your cloaked, longer ranged, attacking, spammable, instantaneous spellcaster. Probably because you didn't have the micro to pull off using warp prisms in your play, or more likely haven't even tried it yet. Those units overhead? The cost army supply and money. And guess what?? They get the crap beaten out of them with storm too. And if you're really going to pull that card, do you want me to bring up the fact that you regenerate any lost health to emp over time, the same as medivacs, except without having to buy units? And I'll give you that it isn't the killing blow, but I'll bring up a better point: why does your point even matter? So emp and storm have different uses. The units aren't designed to be identical. The entire point I'm making is that they AREN'T identical. Why should I be forced to devote extra APM to Warp Prism dropping, unit selecting, and Storm casting when you just hit Shift + E and blanket my whole army? Protoss units don't regenerate shields in combat, while Medivacs heal damage at a greater rate during combat. I'm sure if Protoss could invest Army Supply and Money into a regenerating unit they would do so in every matchup. The point I'm trying to make is that Storm and EMP are two completely different spells, and one is significantly less effective, while the INTENDED DESIGN is for them to be very close to equally effective. You would ue the extra APM because though you know emp is easier, the reward for storm is much, much greater. As in, you would do it because you would want to win. Mark my words, you're going to see warp prisms ht play in pro games in the not too distant future. Healing a unit only works if it isn't dead. Also, those spells aren't designed to be equally effective. The units are. Well wouldn't you know? Ghosts are easily 5x as effective as High Templar. Pre-patch. We'll see There was not a single change this patch that effected either Ghosts or High Templars. On a unit vs unit comparison, nothing has changed. Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 17:56 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:53 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:49 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:38 Thrombozyt wrote:On September 26 2011 16:48 VirgilSC2 wrote:
....if only Storm did guaranteed effects like Fungal and EMP, it might be worth comparing the two.
You can't micro out of EMP, or Fungal, but you can micro out of Storm. I think that's the biggest discrepancy between the spells. Storm has a guaranteed effect: It does initial damage - usually around 20, because even if you storm while they are already running, you will hit them. After that storm always has one of two effects: 1) It deals more damage. 2) It prevents damage as the opponent is running So yes, the opponent can choose between eating damage and not dealing damage... but storms have a guaranteed effect. The other two "similar" spells don't allow a choice, you either: a) Disengage after taking the full effect of the spell b) Continue to engage after taking the full effect of the spell. Storm results in: a) Disengaging after taking partial effects of the spell b) Eating the full effect of the spell c) Engaging after taking partial effects of the spell See the difference? Yes, I do. Storm will do the same percentage damage to my units in one second that emp will do, except storm has the option of doing even more damage and providing positional advantage. So... ? At this point I'm going to stop acknowledging your posts because it's obvious now that you're trolling. Sorry I have a response to all your arguments. :shrugs: I still remember the days protoss was unstoppable, and it was storm that was doing it. Terrans found a way to negate it. Now protoss have a way to bring it back. Protoss was never unstoppable and there are numbers that prove it.
LOL
You don't remember when thorzain made his TSL run, and how everyone was so shocked that he beat Tyler, MC, and Naniwa?? Before that is when it was. Go ahead and look up the numbers.
They did make a change. To the warp prism. Just because it isn't a direct HT change doesn't mean it doesn't affect HT.
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On September 26 2011 18:02 love4every1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 17:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:57 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:56 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:54 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:46 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:28 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:
[quote]
You said it yourself "You also don't die from EMP."
Storm is a spell designed to kill enemy units. EMP is a spell designed to neutralize enemy casters, and lessen the effectiveness of the Protoss army.
If we're comparing similar spells here, short of the AoE, Feedback is a closer spell to EMP than Storm is. However, that was not the intended design. EMP is not designed to be a killing blow, while Storm is, however EMP does its job easily, while any competent player can negate ~35%+ of the designed effectiveness of Storm. What?? Just because it doesn't do the finishing blow doesn't mean it wasn't designed to kill. Seeing as it takes 100 shields, I would say that blizzard proooobably meant for it to be a damage dealer. Also, you know 65% of storm is still 52 damage right? As in, the terran is basically dead. And just because protoss can't use storms competently doesn't mean that it's terrans fault. Two storms will stop every bio advance outright, if not killing it immediately. Emp stops advancing protoss. If I shoot you in the heart, it's fatal, and will kill. If I shoot you in the leg, unless I hit the artery, while it does damage to you, it's not going to kill you. "Doing the finishing blow" is the act of killing, which EMP can NEVER do, in ANY engagement or scenario. That 52 hypothetical damage? You have units floating overhead that heal during, and after the Storm, Protoss does not have that luxury. You're blaming Protoss players for ineffectively using Storm? Are you really that blind that you can say EVERY Terran player is smart enough to use EMP effectively, and the reason Protoss players can't use Storm as effectively is because of user error? Sorry, I can speak for the entire Protoss player-base when I apologize for our slow, defenseless, uncloaked, damage over time spellcaster isn't as effective as your cloaked, longer ranged, attacking, spammable, instantaneous spellcaster. Probably because you didn't have the micro to pull off using warp prisms in your play, or more likely haven't even tried it yet. Those units overhead? The cost army supply and money. And guess what?? They get the crap beaten out of them with storm too. And if you're really going to pull that card, do you want me to bring up the fact that you regenerate any lost health to emp over time, the same as medivacs, except without having to buy units? And I'll give you that it isn't the killing blow, but I'll bring up a better point: why does your point even matter? So emp and storm have different uses. The units aren't designed to be identical. The entire point I'm making is that they AREN'T identical. Why should I be forced to devote extra APM to Warp Prism dropping, unit selecting, and Storm casting when you just hit Shift + E and blanket my whole army? Protoss units don't regenerate shields in combat, while Medivacs heal damage at a greater rate during combat. I'm sure if Protoss could invest Army Supply and Money into a regenerating unit they would do so in every matchup. The point I'm trying to make is that Storm and EMP are two completely different spells, and one is significantly less effective, while the INTENDED DESIGN is for them to be very close to equally effective. You would ue the extra APM because though you know emp is easier, the reward for storm is much, much greater. As in, you would do it because you would want to win. Mark my words, you're going to see warp prisms ht play in pro games in the not too distant future. Healing a unit only works if it isn't dead. Also, those spells aren't designed to be equally effective. The units are. Well wouldn't you know? Ghosts are easily 5x as effective as High Templar. Pre-patch. We'll see There was not a single change this patch that effected either Ghosts or High Templars. On a unit vs unit comparison, nothing has changed. On September 26 2011 17:56 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:53 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:49 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:38 Thrombozyt wrote:On September 26 2011 16:48 VirgilSC2 wrote:
....if only Storm did guaranteed effects like Fungal and EMP, it might be worth comparing the two.
You can't micro out of EMP, or Fungal, but you can micro out of Storm. I think that's the biggest discrepancy between the spells. Storm has a guaranteed effect: It does initial damage - usually around 20, because even if you storm while they are already running, you will hit them. After that storm always has one of two effects: 1) It deals more damage. 2) It prevents damage as the opponent is running So yes, the opponent can choose between eating damage and not dealing damage... but storms have a guaranteed effect. The other two "similar" spells don't allow a choice, you either: a) Disengage after taking the full effect of the spell b) Continue to engage after taking the full effect of the spell. Storm results in: a) Disengaging after taking partial effects of the spell b) Eating the full effect of the spell c) Engaging after taking partial effects of the spell See the difference? Yes, I do. Storm will do the same percentage damage to my units in one second that emp will do, except storm has the option of doing even more damage and providing positional advantage. So... ? At this point I'm going to stop acknowledging your posts because it's obvious now that you're trolling. Sorry I have a response to all your arguments. :shrugs: I still remember the days protoss was unstoppable, and it was storm that was doing it. Terrans found a way to negate it. Now protoss have a way to bring it back. Protoss was never unstoppable and there are numbers that prove it. LOL You don't remember when thorzain made his TSL run, and how everyone was so shocked that he beat Tyler, MC, and Naniwa?? Before that is when it was. Go ahead and look up the numbers. They did make a change. To the warp prism. Just because it isn't a direct HT change doesn't mean it doesn't affect HT.
Everyone was so shocked because before TSL3 ThorZain was largely an unknown quantity.
Here take a look at the numbers:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Jvlvy.png)
Show me where Protoss is "unstoppable"
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On September 26 2011 18:02 love4every1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 17:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:57 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:56 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:54 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:46 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:28 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:
[quote]
You said it yourself "You also don't die from EMP."
Storm is a spell designed to kill enemy units. EMP is a spell designed to neutralize enemy casters, and lessen the effectiveness of the Protoss army.
If we're comparing similar spells here, short of the AoE, Feedback is a closer spell to EMP than Storm is. However, that was not the intended design. EMP is not designed to be a killing blow, while Storm is, however EMP does its job easily, while any competent player can negate ~35%+ of the designed effectiveness of Storm. What?? Just because it doesn't do the finishing blow doesn't mean it wasn't designed to kill. Seeing as it takes 100 shields, I would say that blizzard proooobably meant for it to be a damage dealer. Also, you know 65% of storm is still 52 damage right? As in, the terran is basically dead. And just because protoss can't use storms competently doesn't mean that it's terrans fault. Two storms will stop every bio advance outright, if not killing it immediately. Emp stops advancing protoss. If I shoot you in the heart, it's fatal, and will kill. If I shoot you in the leg, unless I hit the artery, while it does damage to you, it's not going to kill you. "Doing the finishing blow" is the act of killing, which EMP can NEVER do, in ANY engagement or scenario. That 52 hypothetical damage? You have units floating overhead that heal during, and after the Storm, Protoss does not have that luxury. You're blaming Protoss players for ineffectively using Storm? Are you really that blind that you can say EVERY Terran player is smart enough to use EMP effectively, and the reason Protoss players can't use Storm as effectively is because of user error? Sorry, I can speak for the entire Protoss player-base when I apologize for our slow, defenseless, uncloaked, damage over time spellcaster isn't as effective as your cloaked, longer ranged, attacking, spammable, instantaneous spellcaster. Probably because you didn't have the micro to pull off using warp prisms in your play, or more likely haven't even tried it yet. Those units overhead? The cost army supply and money. And guess what?? They get the crap beaten out of them with storm too. And if you're really going to pull that card, do you want me to bring up the fact that you regenerate any lost health to emp over time, the same as medivacs, except without having to buy units? And I'll give you that it isn't the killing blow, but I'll bring up a better point: why does your point even matter? So emp and storm have different uses. The units aren't designed to be identical. The entire point I'm making is that they AREN'T identical. Why should I be forced to devote extra APM to Warp Prism dropping, unit selecting, and Storm casting when you just hit Shift + E and blanket my whole army? Protoss units don't regenerate shields in combat, while Medivacs heal damage at a greater rate during combat. I'm sure if Protoss could invest Army Supply and Money into a regenerating unit they would do so in every matchup. The point I'm trying to make is that Storm and EMP are two completely different spells, and one is significantly less effective, while the INTENDED DESIGN is for them to be very close to equally effective. You would ue the extra APM because though you know emp is easier, the reward for storm is much, much greater. As in, you would do it because you would want to win. Mark my words, you're going to see warp prisms ht play in pro games in the not too distant future. Healing a unit only works if it isn't dead. Also, those spells aren't designed to be equally effective. The units are. Well wouldn't you know? Ghosts are easily 5x as effective as High Templar. Pre-patch. We'll see There was not a single change this patch that effected either Ghosts or High Templars. On a unit vs unit comparison, nothing has changed. On September 26 2011 17:56 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:53 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:49 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:38 Thrombozyt wrote:On September 26 2011 16:48 VirgilSC2 wrote:
....if only Storm did guaranteed effects like Fungal and EMP, it might be worth comparing the two.
You can't micro out of EMP, or Fungal, but you can micro out of Storm. I think that's the biggest discrepancy between the spells. Storm has a guaranteed effect: It does initial damage - usually around 20, because even if you storm while they are already running, you will hit them. After that storm always has one of two effects: 1) It deals more damage. 2) It prevents damage as the opponent is running So yes, the opponent can choose between eating damage and not dealing damage... but storms have a guaranteed effect. The other two "similar" spells don't allow a choice, you either: a) Disengage after taking the full effect of the spell b) Continue to engage after taking the full effect of the spell. Storm results in: a) Disengaging after taking partial effects of the spell b) Eating the full effect of the spell c) Engaging after taking partial effects of the spell See the difference? Yes, I do. Storm will do the same percentage damage to my units in one second that emp will do, except storm has the option of doing even more damage and providing positional advantage. So... ? At this point I'm going to stop acknowledging your posts because it's obvious now that you're trolling. Sorry I have a response to all your arguments. :shrugs: I still remember the days protoss was unstoppable, and it was storm that was doing it. Terrans found a way to negate it. Now protoss have a way to bring it back. Protoss was never unstoppable and there are numbers that prove it. LOL You don't remember when thorzain made his TSL run, and how everyone was so shocked that he beat Tyler, MC, and Naniwa?? Before that is when it was. Go ahead and look up the numbers. They did make a change. To the warp prism. Just because it isn't a direct HT change doesn't mean it doesn't affect HT.
Yeah, I remember. It was in April, when professional Protoss win-rates were sitting almost exactly at 50%, with Terrans at 50.6% and Zergs at 49.3%.
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On September 26 2011 18:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 18:02 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:57 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:56 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:54 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:46 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:28 love4every1 wrote:
[quote]
What??
Just because it doesn't do the finishing blow doesn't mean it wasn't designed to kill. Seeing as it takes 100 shields, I would say that blizzard proooobably meant for it to be a damage dealer.
Also, you know 65% of storm is still 52 damage right? As in, the terran is basically dead. And just because protoss can't use storms competently doesn't mean that it's terrans fault. Two storms will stop every bio advance outright, if not killing it immediately. Emp stops advancing protoss.
If I shoot you in the heart, it's fatal, and will kill. If I shoot you in the leg, unless I hit the artery, while it does damage to you, it's not going to kill you. "Doing the finishing blow" is the act of killing, which EMP can NEVER do, in ANY engagement or scenario. That 52 hypothetical damage? You have units floating overhead that heal during, and after the Storm, Protoss does not have that luxury. You're blaming Protoss players for ineffectively using Storm? Are you really that blind that you can say EVERY Terran player is smart enough to use EMP effectively, and the reason Protoss players can't use Storm as effectively is because of user error? Sorry, I can speak for the entire Protoss player-base when I apologize for our slow, defenseless, uncloaked, damage over time spellcaster isn't as effective as your cloaked, longer ranged, attacking, spammable, instantaneous spellcaster. Probably because you didn't have the micro to pull off using warp prisms in your play, or more likely haven't even tried it yet. Those units overhead? The cost army supply and money. And guess what?? They get the crap beaten out of them with storm too. And if you're really going to pull that card, do you want me to bring up the fact that you regenerate any lost health to emp over time, the same as medivacs, except without having to buy units? And I'll give you that it isn't the killing blow, but I'll bring up a better point: why does your point even matter? So emp and storm have different uses. The units aren't designed to be identical. The entire point I'm making is that they AREN'T identical. Why should I be forced to devote extra APM to Warp Prism dropping, unit selecting, and Storm casting when you just hit Shift + E and blanket my whole army? Protoss units don't regenerate shields in combat, while Medivacs heal damage at a greater rate during combat. I'm sure if Protoss could invest Army Supply and Money into a regenerating unit they would do so in every matchup. The point I'm trying to make is that Storm and EMP are two completely different spells, and one is significantly less effective, while the INTENDED DESIGN is for them to be very close to equally effective. You would ue the extra APM because though you know emp is easier, the reward for storm is much, much greater. As in, you would do it because you would want to win. Mark my words, you're going to see warp prisms ht play in pro games in the not too distant future. Healing a unit only works if it isn't dead. Also, those spells aren't designed to be equally effective. The units are. Well wouldn't you know? Ghosts are easily 5x as effective as High Templar. Pre-patch. We'll see There was not a single change this patch that effected either Ghosts or High Templars. On a unit vs unit comparison, nothing has changed. On September 26 2011 17:56 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:53 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:49 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:38 Thrombozyt wrote:On September 26 2011 16:48 VirgilSC2 wrote:
....if only Storm did guaranteed effects like Fungal and EMP, it might be worth comparing the two.
You can't micro out of EMP, or Fungal, but you can micro out of Storm. I think that's the biggest discrepancy between the spells. Storm has a guaranteed effect: It does initial damage - usually around 20, because even if you storm while they are already running, you will hit them. After that storm always has one of two effects: 1) It deals more damage. 2) It prevents damage as the opponent is running So yes, the opponent can choose between eating damage and not dealing damage... but storms have a guaranteed effect. The other two "similar" spells don't allow a choice, you either: a) Disengage after taking the full effect of the spell b) Continue to engage after taking the full effect of the spell. Storm results in: a) Disengaging after taking partial effects of the spell b) Eating the full effect of the spell c) Engaging after taking partial effects of the spell See the difference? Yes, I do. Storm will do the same percentage damage to my units in one second that emp will do, except storm has the option of doing even more damage and providing positional advantage. So... ? At this point I'm going to stop acknowledging your posts because it's obvious now that you're trolling. Sorry I have a response to all your arguments. :shrugs: I still remember the days protoss was unstoppable, and it was storm that was doing it. Terrans found a way to negate it. Now protoss have a way to bring it back. Protoss was never unstoppable and there are numbers that prove it. LOL You don't remember when thorzain made his TSL run, and how everyone was so shocked that he beat Tyler, MC, and Naniwa?? Before that is when it was. Go ahead and look up the numbers. They did make a change. To the warp prism. Just because it isn't a direct HT change doesn't mean it doesn't affect HT. Everyone was so shocked because before TSL3 ThorZain was largely an unknown quantity. Here take a look at the numbers: Show me where Protoss is "unstoppable"
Show me a place where I can find statistics of my own and I will. Also, the point here is that HT are now viable with warp prism. But I will find you the stats
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On September 26 2011 18:11 love4every1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 18:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 18:02 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:57 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:56 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:54 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:46 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:
[quote]
If I shoot you in the heart, it's fatal, and will kill.
If I shoot you in the leg, unless I hit the artery, while it does damage to you, it's not going to kill you.
"Doing the finishing blow" is the act of killing, which EMP can NEVER do, in ANY engagement or scenario. That 52 hypothetical damage? You have units floating overhead that heal during, and after the Storm, Protoss does not have that luxury.
You're blaming Protoss players for ineffectively using Storm? Are you really that blind that you can say EVERY Terran player is smart enough to use EMP effectively, and the reason Protoss players can't use Storm as effectively is because of user error? Sorry, I can speak for the entire Protoss player-base when I apologize for our slow, defenseless, uncloaked, damage over time spellcaster isn't as effective as your cloaked, longer ranged, attacking, spammable, instantaneous spellcaster. Probably because you didn't have the micro to pull off using warp prisms in your play, or more likely haven't even tried it yet. Those units overhead? The cost army supply and money. And guess what?? They get the crap beaten out of them with storm too. And if you're really going to pull that card, do you want me to bring up the fact that you regenerate any lost health to emp over time, the same as medivacs, except without having to buy units? And I'll give you that it isn't the killing blow, but I'll bring up a better point: why does your point even matter? So emp and storm have different uses. The units aren't designed to be identical. The entire point I'm making is that they AREN'T identical. Why should I be forced to devote extra APM to Warp Prism dropping, unit selecting, and Storm casting when you just hit Shift + E and blanket my whole army? Protoss units don't regenerate shields in combat, while Medivacs heal damage at a greater rate during combat. I'm sure if Protoss could invest Army Supply and Money into a regenerating unit they would do so in every matchup. The point I'm trying to make is that Storm and EMP are two completely different spells, and one is significantly less effective, while the INTENDED DESIGN is for them to be very close to equally effective. You would ue the extra APM because though you know emp is easier, the reward for storm is much, much greater. As in, you would do it because you would want to win. Mark my words, you're going to see warp prisms ht play in pro games in the not too distant future. Healing a unit only works if it isn't dead. Also, those spells aren't designed to be equally effective. The units are. Well wouldn't you know? Ghosts are easily 5x as effective as High Templar. Pre-patch. We'll see There was not a single change this patch that effected either Ghosts or High Templars. On a unit vs unit comparison, nothing has changed. On September 26 2011 17:56 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:53 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:49 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:38 Thrombozyt wrote:On September 26 2011 16:48 VirgilSC2 wrote:
....if only Storm did guaranteed effects like Fungal and EMP, it might be worth comparing the two.
You can't micro out of EMP, or Fungal, but you can micro out of Storm. I think that's the biggest discrepancy between the spells. Storm has a guaranteed effect: It does initial damage - usually around 20, because even if you storm while they are already running, you will hit them. After that storm always has one of two effects: 1) It deals more damage. 2) It prevents damage as the opponent is running So yes, the opponent can choose between eating damage and not dealing damage... but storms have a guaranteed effect. The other two "similar" spells don't allow a choice, you either: a) Disengage after taking the full effect of the spell b) Continue to engage after taking the full effect of the spell. Storm results in: a) Disengaging after taking partial effects of the spell b) Eating the full effect of the spell c) Engaging after taking partial effects of the spell See the difference? Yes, I do. Storm will do the same percentage damage to my units in one second that emp will do, except storm has the option of doing even more damage and providing positional advantage. So... ? At this point I'm going to stop acknowledging your posts because it's obvious now that you're trolling. Sorry I have a response to all your arguments. :shrugs: I still remember the days protoss was unstoppable, and it was storm that was doing it. Terrans found a way to negate it. Now protoss have a way to bring it back. Protoss was never unstoppable and there are numbers that prove it. LOL You don't remember when thorzain made his TSL run, and how everyone was so shocked that he beat Tyler, MC, and Naniwa?? Before that is when it was. Go ahead and look up the numbers. They did make a change. To the warp prism. Just because it isn't a direct HT change doesn't mean it doesn't affect HT. Everyone was so shocked because before TSL3 ThorZain was largely an unknown quantity. Here take a look at the numbers: Show me where Protoss is "unstoppable" Show me a place where I can find statistics of my own and I will. Also, the point here is that HT are now viable with warp prism. But I will find you the stats
You're saying the effectiveness of one unit COMPLETELY depends on that of another, doesn't that seem like a design flaw to you?
Those statistics came from twitter.com/sc2statistics
I believe they get their information from TLPD. Find a more reliable source than TLPD and I may start to believe you.
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On September 26 2011 18:11 love4every1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 18:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 18:02 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:57 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:56 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:54 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:46 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:37 VirgilSC2 wrote:
[quote]
If I shoot you in the heart, it's fatal, and will kill.
If I shoot you in the leg, unless I hit the artery, while it does damage to you, it's not going to kill you.
"Doing the finishing blow" is the act of killing, which EMP can NEVER do, in ANY engagement or scenario. That 52 hypothetical damage? You have units floating overhead that heal during, and after the Storm, Protoss does not have that luxury.
You're blaming Protoss players for ineffectively using Storm? Are you really that blind that you can say EVERY Terran player is smart enough to use EMP effectively, and the reason Protoss players can't use Storm as effectively is because of user error? Sorry, I can speak for the entire Protoss player-base when I apologize for our slow, defenseless, uncloaked, damage over time spellcaster isn't as effective as your cloaked, longer ranged, attacking, spammable, instantaneous spellcaster. Probably because you didn't have the micro to pull off using warp prisms in your play, or more likely haven't even tried it yet. Those units overhead? The cost army supply and money. And guess what?? They get the crap beaten out of them with storm too. And if you're really going to pull that card, do you want me to bring up the fact that you regenerate any lost health to emp over time, the same as medivacs, except without having to buy units? And I'll give you that it isn't the killing blow, but I'll bring up a better point: why does your point even matter? So emp and storm have different uses. The units aren't designed to be identical. The entire point I'm making is that they AREN'T identical. Why should I be forced to devote extra APM to Warp Prism dropping, unit selecting, and Storm casting when you just hit Shift + E and blanket my whole army? Protoss units don't regenerate shields in combat, while Medivacs heal damage at a greater rate during combat. I'm sure if Protoss could invest Army Supply and Money into a regenerating unit they would do so in every matchup. The point I'm trying to make is that Storm and EMP are two completely different spells, and one is significantly less effective, while the INTENDED DESIGN is for them to be very close to equally effective. You would ue the extra APM because though you know emp is easier, the reward for storm is much, much greater. As in, you would do it because you would want to win. Mark my words, you're going to see warp prisms ht play in pro games in the not too distant future. Healing a unit only works if it isn't dead. Also, those spells aren't designed to be equally effective. The units are. Well wouldn't you know? Ghosts are easily 5x as effective as High Templar. Pre-patch. We'll see There was not a single change this patch that effected either Ghosts or High Templars. On a unit vs unit comparison, nothing has changed. On September 26 2011 17:56 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:53 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:49 love4every1 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:44 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 17:38 Thrombozyt wrote:On September 26 2011 16:48 VirgilSC2 wrote:
....if only Storm did guaranteed effects like Fungal and EMP, it might be worth comparing the two.
You can't micro out of EMP, or Fungal, but you can micro out of Storm. I think that's the biggest discrepancy between the spells. Storm has a guaranteed effect: It does initial damage - usually around 20, because even if you storm while they are already running, you will hit them. After that storm always has one of two effects: 1) It deals more damage. 2) It prevents damage as the opponent is running So yes, the opponent can choose between eating damage and not dealing damage... but storms have a guaranteed effect. The other two "similar" spells don't allow a choice, you either: a) Disengage after taking the full effect of the spell b) Continue to engage after taking the full effect of the spell. Storm results in: a) Disengaging after taking partial effects of the spell b) Eating the full effect of the spell c) Engaging after taking partial effects of the spell See the difference? Yes, I do. Storm will do the same percentage damage to my units in one second that emp will do, except storm has the option of doing even more damage and providing positional advantage. So... ? At this point I'm going to stop acknowledging your posts because it's obvious now that you're trolling. Sorry I have a response to all your arguments. :shrugs: I still remember the days protoss was unstoppable, and it was storm that was doing it. Terrans found a way to negate it. Now protoss have a way to bring it back. Protoss was never unstoppable and there are numbers that prove it. LOL You don't remember when thorzain made his TSL run, and how everyone was so shocked that he beat Tyler, MC, and Naniwa?? Before that is when it was. Go ahead and look up the numbers. They did make a change. To the warp prism. Just because it isn't a direct HT change doesn't mean it doesn't affect HT. Everyone was so shocked because before TSL3 ThorZain was largely an unknown quantity. Here take a look at the numbers: Show me where Protoss is "unstoppable" Show me a place where I can find statistics of my own and I will. Also, the point here is that HT are now viable with warp prism. But I will find you the stats
These graphs use the TLPD so i dont know why you would need any other numbers, unless of course you are saying the TLPD is wrong in some way
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On September 26 2011 18:11 love4every1 wrote:Show me a place where I can find statistics of my own and I will. Also, the point here is that HT are now viable with warp prism. But I will find you the stats
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/tlpd_select.php
Go for it.
Or, alternatively, use the statistics provided by someone who has already done the work for you:
twitter.com/sc2statistics
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I can make statistics say whatever I want to, and I remember quite vividly all the terrans QQing over over Storm being imba. If you say you don't remember that and you were around that long, then you're lying.
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On September 26 2011 18:20 love4every1 wrote:
I can make statistics say whatever I want to, and I remember quite vividly all the terrans QQing over over Storm being imba. If you say you don't remember that and you were around that long, then you're lying.
QQ =/= Statistical proof.
You just made yourself look extremely foolish, congratulations for discrediting yourself.
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And no it doesn't seem like a design flaw that you can exploit certain units to others advantage...?
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On September 26 2011 18:21 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 18:20 love4every1 wrote:
I can make statistics say whatever I want to, and I remember quite vividly all the terrans QQing over over Storm being imba. If you say you don't remember that and you were around that long, then you're lying. QQ =/= Statistical proof. You just made yourself look extremely foolish, congratulations for discrediting yourself.
I only said that to remind you (and myself) that it did happen. I'll find stats that support me, it's only a matter of time :D
BUT, though I promise I will get you stats... The warp prism will increase HT play. I promise.
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On September 26 2011 18:24 love4every1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 18:21 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 26 2011 18:20 love4every1 wrote:
I can make statistics say whatever I want to, and I remember quite vividly all the terrans QQing over over Storm being imba. If you say you don't remember that and you were around that long, then you're lying. QQ =/= Statistical proof. You just made yourself look extremely foolish, congratulations for discrediting yourself. I only said that to remind you (and myself) that it did happen. I'll find stats that support me, it's only a matter of time :D BUT, though I promise I will get you stats... The warp prism will increase HT play. I promise.
I will challenge you to find statistical proof that supports your claim that is more reliable than TLPD. It won't happen. Protoss was never "unstoppable".
You can't shape statistics to your whim, only the way you report them can.
I'm done here.
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Also, though I may discredit myself, you did earlier by making it about the stats. The point all along was the high templar were now viable with warp prisms, I just started running my mouth off which you exploited >_<
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I'm not going to find more reliable source, I am going to bend it. You can make statistics say anything. And you still haven't made any reasonable points that I haven't countered about the warp prism and HT. So just saying that you're done doesn't make you right <3
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On September 26 2011 17:51 Destructicon wrote:
I only see you assuming the best case scenario for your Protoss point of view. The one big thing you keep forgetting is that Vikings have a range of 9. They can go in, snipe the WP closest to the front and then get out before you're storm can catch them.
Because of the long range of vikings they can even snipe of of range of stalkers, and if the stalkers risk going too close or blinking forward they get EMPed in the face and a group of marauders with stim jumps forward to kill them.
The Vikings will keep doing this until you have no more WP left and all the HT are on the ground.
You're also assuming 1 storm will change the outcome, if the terran has his army split up in anticipation of a storm drop on his infantry, 1 storm will do noth and you've lost a fleet of WP. If you think storming vikings is going to get results you are mistaken, vikings have big range and can also be repaired.
The fact of the matter is, you need 2 or 3 storms on the main terran bio ball, you don't want position with it, you want it to do DPS, and this is because the terran bio ball is so cost effective, so strong together and so well supported by medivacs, that it can destroy the basic GW force of zealots and stalkers.
Again once your Colossus is dead, HT neutralized and WP destroyed the terran can force the engagement and win.
I find it funny that you mentioned threatening a terran's natural so he can't run away. Terran's army is more mobile, its more likely he can chose to fight you somewhere in the middle so he has a place to fall back on, at least any smart terran will do so. Its more likely he will force the engagement on the protoss by constantly dropping on the protoss' bases and killing workers/buildings.
The one thing YOU are forgetting is that Vikings do nothing against a Protoss army without Colossi ... so why should a Terran get those 7 Vikings to 1-shot your WP? There is no reason to do that. Do Protoss usually have both Colossi AND HTs? Usually not, right? So if you go for HTs they wont have Vikings! Oh and there is no need to keep that WP - the real one with the HT inside - at the front of your forces to enable those Vikings to assault the WP without risk. Keep it back so the Vikings have to get into range of your Stalkers.
You might also try mixing in some hallucinated WPs to try and draw your OP Terran Vikings into a trap if you are so scared about them.
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EPT
