Designated Balance Discussion Thread - Page 1066

On August 15 2014 00:51 r691175002 wrote:


We could also ask how we can improve the other races.

The most entertaining matchup is almost universally considered to be TvZ. Battles are often long and positional. Skirmishes can occur all over the map. Losing a single battle is rarely game-ending as Terran can retreat to a defensive position, and zerg has their next wave of units popping out. There are numerous viable strategies for both parties, and either one can take the initiative and force the other player to react.

The protoss matchups are generally defined by a single large game-ending fight. Protoss almost always has the initiative and their opponent needs to identify what is coming or die.

On August 15 2014 00:51 Faust852 wrote:

The overall trend shows that people tend to prefere match up with terran in it.

It's better formulated this way ?

On August 15 2014 01:13 Faust852 wrote:

Nah, it's the same, you are just nitpicking.

On August 15 2014 01:29 Nebuchad wrote:


When you say most people prefer terran match-ups, you're just stating a fact. That has no consequences, that's like saying most people prefer potatoes over brussels sprouts, the general answer should be 'okay, whatever'.

When you say terran match-ups are better, then you're introducing a quality factor into how we are entertained. There are a bunch of things wrong with that.

On August 15 2014 01:05 Thieving Magpie wrote:


The problem with Protoss (entertainment wise) is how their midgame is handled.

Early pokes, early harass, etc... Protoss does that all the time. Stalker/zealot/core pokes into the zerg's third, Phoenix harass, early oracle harass into perfect oracle scouting none stop through the late game, etc... The Protoss late game is also active with prism harass, zealot runbys, storm drops, etc...

The problem is that Protoss goes all in during the mid game or the remain passive during the midgame.

If Protoss plans to be active in the midgame they usually just do a 2-3 base timing push then gg if they fail.
If Protoss plans to be active in the late game then they turtle up during the midgame.

Neither looks very sexy. Not talking about balance here, I'm talking about sexiness. Protoss late game is fun to watch, but no if he say around casting force fields for 5-10 minutes. Midgame aggression is always fun to watch--but not if Protoss ggs after it fails to kill the opponent. What is sexy is a race trying to be aggressive in the midgame, but then their attacks are rebuffed so much that the game ends up in the late game anyway.

On August 15 2014 01:16 Faust852 wrote:

I don't know about TvZ being this snowbally. Idk if you watched Bbyong vs SK yesterday but Bbyong made an awesome comeback, and I doubt he is better mechanically than SK. Really, it doesn't take much to reverse a situtation in TvZ. One good baneling trap, one failed split, medivacs being catched by mutas, or in the other side with good mines detonation, strong multitask, awesome split, etc...

On August 15 2014 01:44 Big J wrote:


I think the issue with Protoss is that so many of their mechanics are about making their units survive and none of them are glascanons that are balanced around "getting that one shot of" and then dying, but still being worth it.
Blink, forcefield, shields, all the units being beefy, recall, hardened shields.
I think the exception here is the HT, the phoenix and to a certain degree the zealot if not just used as meatshield for other units. Obviously also the oracle and the DT, but those are rather gimmicks that are bandaids to make up for what the main army units cannot do.

In a battle it doesn't really matter if your race is 2xhealth, 1/2 damage. But outside of main army combats, this kind of design imposes mature limitations for Protoss, like the lack of harass with the units that you want to build for combats and the lack of being able to take a risk and just be on the map at some point, even at the risk of losing some stuff. You just can't risk losing units when their main strength is to fight in a bigass all-or-nothing battle.

On August 15 2014 01:42 DinoMight wrote:


I think you're being nitpicky. He's saying that, when left up to the general population of StarCraft 2 viewers to vote on the best games (the ones they enjoyed the most), the community picked more games with Terran in them. Meaning more people prefer to watch games with Terran. Hence Terran produces "better" (more pleasing) games for the viewers.

I think the reason people prefer games with Terrans in them is because since HotS came out Terran has been slumping a bit and there haven't been too many good games involving Terran. So the ones that are good usually get the most recognition.

Proleague has had a ton of awesome PvPs.... but ... supply/demand means that the Terran games get more coverage in the "best games" section.

On August 15 2014 00:32 Nebuchad wrote:
Also you should man up to your opinions. If terran match-ups are better than the others, we don't want a balanced game, we want a game where terran is favored, so that it's seen more often than the others. That should make everyone happy right?

On August 15 2014 02:09 TheDwf wrote:

?? That's a very odd argument. Spectators are not everything. If viewers tend to prefer match-ups from race A rather than race C it's not a reason at all to break the balance in favor of A while making C disappear. Players have the right to play a fair game even if their race is the least popular.

On August 15 2014 02:09 TheDwf wrote:

?? That's a very odd argument. Spectators are not everything. If viewers tend to prefer match-ups from race A rather than race C it's not a reason at all to break the balance in favor of A while making C disappear. Players have the right to play a fair game even if their race is the least popular.

On August 15 2014 02:10 Nebuchad wrote:


And then we would have debates between people who want a fair game and people who want a spectator friendly game. A very annoying situation, that can easily be avoided by not supporting the position that terran match-ups are better than the others.

On August 15 2014 02:13 Genome852 wrote:

Imbalance is not spectator friendly.

If marines did 100 damage per shot, you think it would be more enjoyable to watch?

Fair game and spectator friendliness are not mutually exclusive.

On August 15 2014 00:24 Big J wrote:
@ Socup: You are completely overgeneralizing what that post said:

Can have an advantage is what you are continuously not mentioning. It can happen. It also cannot happen. Now you gotta ask yourself, why it can also not happen. Well, that is when the players don't play the "popular" way. But when they do, the second part of the quote comes into play:

Again, you overgeneralize what he said here. He did not say "Terran has THE advantage in the midgame." He said, that Terran have AN advantage (terran players press that mid-game advantage) in the form of having the offensive capability to inflict damage. Nowhere did he say that Terran has an overall midgame advantage, or that regardless of how the Terran plays, he must do damage. That's just exaggerating the content of the quote.

If you don't believe me, watch Squirtle 2base Colossusing his way through GSL IN THE MIDGAME or Demuslim beating Korean Protoss players with mass Ghost/Viking IN THE LATEGAME. These were playable styles. If you rather 5rax 2based, then it was not the matchup's fault that you had to do damage.

On August 15 2014 02:27 Socup wrote:


What words of "Terran has mid game advantages and if terran players press that mid game advantage, then protoss cant necessarily get into their late game at their full potential" dont you understand?

What led up to those ghost viking mass in the lategame or 2 base colussus in the early game? Unless you're going to give us the upgrades, whether terran was active or passive midgame, and what kind of damage either side receive (where the BLUE post by the people that RUN the game themselves said that "if no side takes any significant damage, protoss has an advantage lategame), then you're full on troll.

On August 15 2014 02:54 TurboMaN wrote:
If a protoss plays save on 3 bases with blink he always has an advantage