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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
-------- Hey TL, I've been a long time lurker and thought I'd share a little tool I made for personal use. Some may find it useful, most probably wont. It is a utility to allow you to store and search through build orders by race, matchup and description. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J4VwB.jpg) It also allows you show your build in a customizable overlay over your SC2 window. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J2r8r.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vQQjP.jpg) New Version: SC2 Scrapbook | ||
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rads
Australia38 Posts
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sebsejr
213 Posts
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Moshikaro
135 Posts
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TimeFlighT
Australia257 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:43 Veritas. wrote: Hey TL, I've been a long time lurker and thought I'd share a little tool I made for personal use. Some may find it useful, most probably wont. It is a utility to allow you to store and search through build orders by race, matchup and description. It also allows you show your build in a customizable overlay over your SC2 window. Download Requires .NET Framework 3.5. If anyone is interested in the source, just ask  Question: if i want to enter my own build, do i just manually type the build order? | ||
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Jhohok
United States71 Posts
Now all I have to do is remember to use this... | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
Btw is really "14pool15hatch" build : 9ovi, 14pool, 16hatch XD | ||
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iaretehnoob
Sweden741 Posts
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FlamingTurd
United States1059 Posts
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Kaiwa
Netherlands2209 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:53 iaretehnoob wrote: overlay = cheating imo I was just thinking the same thing. Is this not against ToS? I'm not entirely sure because people with dual screen setups (like myself) can just put up build orders on 2nd screen. Still a cool application but personally not going to use it ^^ | ||
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DrThorMD
Canada359 Posts
Edit: For learning. Ofcourse. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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Project Psycho
United Kingdom329 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:53 iaretehnoob wrote: overlay = cheating imo its just the same as having it wrote down and stuck on your monitor, which am sure a lot people do anyway. | ||
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gCgCrypto
Germany297 Posts
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Dezire
Netherlands640 Posts
edit: oh and at the FFE it says nexus at 14? isnt it smth like 16/17? otherwise you cut probes way to much | ||
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Moshikaro
135 Posts
I think he made it probably with the intention of learning the build faster and I think that is a great way to do it. I'm wondering where the utility got his builds from ? I saw that when I downloaded it there were like 20 builds already and there was this button called Update. Is this program connected to something so it will get builds off of something ? | ||
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:55 Kaiwa wrote: I was just thinking the same thing. Is this not against ToS? I'm not entirely sure because people with dual screen setups (like myself) can just put up build orders on 2nd screen. Still a cool application but personally not going to use it ^^ I can have a big whiteboard next to me. This will only help you get up and going, it will not help you THAT much. And for bronze/silver/gold, this is good for the whole community, to increase the overall skill level. We want as much SC2 growth as we can have. Great work with this, I play zerg, but might off race with terran/protoss a bit more. | ||
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Delinius
United States324 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:57 Project Psycho wrote: its just the same as having it wrote down and stuck on your monitor, which am sure a lot people do anyway. big difference between having a little sticky note on your monitor or a gigantic piece of paper stuck on, than an overlay that is directly within the monitor. It's not the same thing, so stop saying that it is. Also, can someone check if this is against blizzard rules? i love the tool but I believe it is against the user agreement. | ||
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FYRE
New Zealand314 Posts
mmmmmmmmm.......... | ||
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babishh
Canada965 Posts
edit: yeah someone else already posted about it, i had the thread opened for a while soz | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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DrThorMD
Canada359 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On August 09 2011 19:07 Sated wrote: It's exactly the same thing. How is it any different? If anything, this overlay gets in the way of the action on-screen, which makes it worse than having a piece of paper stuck to the side of your monitor. (I love my, "LOOK HERE, MORON! BUILD MORE PYLONS!" sticky-note stuck to my monitor ♥) then dont use it. | ||
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onlinerobbe
Germany547 Posts
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On August 09 2011 19:09 DragonFist wrote: Double click on the build.How do you activate the overlay? | ||
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JoeAWESOME
Sweden1080 Posts
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DrThorMD
Canada359 Posts
Thanks. | ||
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:58 Moshikaro wrote: I'm wondering where the utility got his builds from ? I saw that when I downloaded it there were like 20 builds already and there was this button called Update. Is this program connected to something so it will get builds off of something ? The default builds are built in, there is no interaction with any websites (although that would be cool!). There may be a few typos  .For people saying the overlay is against the ToS. There is no interaction with the SC client. Just a transparent Always-On-Top window. edit: quotes | ||
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DrThorMD
Canada359 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Rorra
Australia1066 Posts
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On August 09 2011 20:00 Rorra wrote: cool stuff, I'd definitely check with blizzard to make sure this isn't defined as cheating though. Even though it would only be of advantage to low level players. It's no different to using notepad, other than having a search feature. | ||
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DrNo
Denmark64 Posts
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Shotgun2
Finland9 Posts
ty | ||
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jarf1337
United States146 Posts
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sopas
509 Posts
On August 09 2011 19:23 DragonFist wrote: This would obviously not be permitted in any competitive play nor would it be used. I dont think it should be against the rules on the ladder or practice games though since, as many people have mentioned before, its just an always on top window with text that has no direct contact with the sc2 client. Well you have saved the day again, Captain Obvious! also lol @ ppl saying it would be cheating xDxD | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
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PtM
89 Posts
However, I tried using it and for some reason it won't appear over my SC client. I can move the overlay and lock it in place and it'll work fine on the desktop, over this browser window, etc. but when I maximize SC it's no longer visible. Also, as a suggestion I think it would be cool to have a feature to enable/disable the overlay via hotkey, since it might be annoying to have the overlay visible once you're past the stage of the game where it's relevant. Edit: Existor's solution worked for me. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
However, I tried using it and for some reason it won't appear over my SC client. I can move the overlay and lock it in place and it'll work fine on the desktop, over this browser window, etc. but when I maximize SC it's no longer visible. Use Full screen (windowed) mode. It's not work with standart Fullscreen. | ||
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PtM
89 Posts
On August 10 2011 01:54 Existor wrote: Use Full screen (windowed) mode. It's not work with standart Fullscreen. Ah, this worked. Thanks! | ||
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On August 10 2011 00:35 Shotgun2 wrote: the VB source code would be awesome tyI'm sure it would, but I don't feel like porting it to VB ;D | ||
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bri9and
United States246 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:53 iaretehnoob wrote: overlay = cheating imo overlay is cheating, just get a 2nd monitor and put it on the side.. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
overlay = cheating imo Gluing a small paper to the edge of the monitor - cheating too? | ||
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JoshRT
14 Posts
Say i see early 2nd gas on protoss and a 3 gate opening. I think possible DTs or stargate opening, so make engineering bay and put out a turret, make a raven, scout around for proxy stargate or pylon, wall off, etc etc | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On August 09 2011 19:02 Golgotha wrote: big difference between having a little sticky note on your monitor or a gigantic piece of paper stuck on, than an overlay that is directly within the monitor. It's not the same thing, so stop saying that it is. Also, can someone check if this is against blizzard rules? i love the tool but I believe it is against the user agreement. What if you taped a sheet of cellophane to your monitor and wrote the build order on it beforehand? This would amount to the exact same thing. The program does not interact with sc2, so it doesn't violate ToS. | ||
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eXwOn
Canada351 Posts
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sh4w
United States713 Posts
Great tool for learning build orders, just don't let it become a handicap! Thank you for your work and sharing it with us, will definitely try this out. Can you resize? It is a bit big on the screen. | ||
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Intricate1
169 Posts
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Qzy
Denmark1121 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On August 10 2011 04:36 Qzy wrote: I hope people can get banned for this... seems like too much help. Should someone get banned for this, but not for taping a cellophane sheet to their monitor and writing on it? Or having 2 monitors and having a build order list open on the other one? Or a post-it note? This doesn't interact with the game, it doesn't tell you where in the build order you're at, and it has no advantages over, say, cellophane+marker. Why would people get banned? I'm pretty sure it's not against blizz ToS, and it's not an unfair advantage (or at least, not more unfair than having a spare monitor/computer, which many people do). | ||
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TheResidentEvil
United States991 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Thank you for your work and sharing it with us, will definitely try this out. Can you resize? It is a bit big on the screen. You can change size and font. Look at my style: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1MKVAl.jpg) I hope people can get banned for this... seems like too much help. Gluing a small paper to the edge of the monitor - cheating too? | ||
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Delinius
United States324 Posts
On August 10 2011 02:52 bri9and wrote: overlay is cheating, just get a 2nd monitor and put it on the side.. this seems like a nice little idea ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hXQfa.jpg) | ||
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Calm
Canada380 Posts
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Naughty
United States114 Posts
If it was my PandoraONE player would have got be banned along time ago with its overplay of what music track is playing. Now if the program checked off steps automatically or suggested build orders/steps depending on what you do in-game that would be another matter in itself. | ||
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Intricate1
169 Posts
Overlay = Cheating*?* Edit- In This Screenshot am I cheating? ![[image loading]](http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb437/WhatIsAxis/cheating1.jpg) Edit- What About This one? ![[image loading]](http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb437/WhatIsAxis/cheating2.jpg) | ||
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Demonace34
United States2493 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
I like the choice of the two terran builds =P It was only preview, author loaded a lot builds here already ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xS81p.png) | ||
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kineSiS-
Korea (South)1068 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:58 Moshikaro wrote: Ofcourse it's not cheating :p. You are just seeing the build that will normally be in your head. I think he made it probably with the intention of learning the build faster and I think that is a great way to do it. I'm wondering where the utility got his builds from ? I saw that when I downloaded it there were like 20 builds already and there was this button called Update. Is this program connected to something so it will get builds off of something ? If you can think of it in your head, you do not need this overlay. Hence, since it gives you an inherent advantage in a game it is cheating. | ||
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keyStorm
Canada316 Posts
Thanks for sharing | ||
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susySquark
United States1692 Posts
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theDragoon
Canada307 Posts
I don't think its cheating, it's basically the same as writing the build order on a piece of paper and putting it beside you. I have a little notepad with me where I write down build orders because I don't have a second monitor. | ||
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
Will def try it out | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On August 10 2011 07:11 susySquark wrote: People, this is NOT cheating. Post-its, windowed mode + notepad, heck, I could print a transparency and create an "overlay". Its not like the program flashes when you're missing a pylon or something. ^ quote Peoples starting call everything "cheating", when they're missing, that Blizzards don't do anything vs resolution "cheating" (widescreen vs square-screen), graphic quality "cheating" (less special effects, more clear battlefields, but also no unit models when warping, etc) | ||
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AWakefield
Canada420 Posts
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keyStorm
Canada316 Posts
anyway a build order doesnt give you insta win...what do you do with the units..? | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
On August 10 2011 06:22 Existor wrote: You can change size and font. Look at my style: Gluing a small paper to the edge of the monitor - cheating too? gluing a paper or having other monitor is MUCH more distracting | ||
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AXygnus
Portugal1008 Posts
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Sleight
2471 Posts
On August 10 2011 07:16 keyStorm wrote: its not cheating..its for practice...like you would wrote it down on a piece of paper, nothing wrong with that anyway a build order doesnt give you insta win...what do you do with the units..? But... but... the ONLY reason people lose is that they can't follow their BO out until 127 food!!! Now they can! Instantly every gold player will be rolling like a GM! [/sarcasm] I can't be more grateful for this tool! My SC notebook was getting full (stupid playing all 3 races). No more! You deserve a medal. | ||
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Thugtronik
New Zealand452 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On August 10 2011 07:17 bgx wrote: gluing a paper or having other monitor is MUCH more distracting That's true. Paper is distracting. What if, instead, I took a piece of cellophane, wrote the build order on it, and taped it onto the front of my monitor? The monitor would look EXACTLY like if this tool were used. Is that cheating? | ||
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Bambipwnsu
Canada698 Posts
It might be a good tool for single player practice...although it might violate ToS? | ||
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CursedFeanor
Canada539 Posts
That being said, Blizzard recently banned people for using overlays in an effort to combat cheaters. Depending how exactly this is implemented, I believe it's totally possible to get banned for using the overlay function. I know I personally won't... I'll just have the program opened on my second monitor!  edit : link to previous situation, which apparently was cleared up, but shows what could happen here... and since this is closer to cheating, I wouldn't take any risk! | ||
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bruteMax
Canada339 Posts
Would it be possible for you to include mouse wheel control in the overlay so we can adjust the height of the overlay without limiting what we can include in the build order? I think this would also work best if you did not include a vertical scroll bar in order to maximize viewable area horizontally. Thanks again! | ||
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IronDoc
United Kingdom27 Posts
On August 10 2011 07:46 CursedFeanor wrote: That being said, Blizzard recently banned people for using overlays in an effort to combat cheaters. Depending how exactly this is implemented, I believe it's totally possible to get banned for using the overlay function. I know I personally won't... I'll just have the program opened on my second monitor! edit : link to previous situation, which apparently was cleared up, but shows what could happen here... and since this is closer to cheating, I wouldn't take any risk! You've missed the point of that post. As it says, those overlays were 'directly hooking into the rendering process and _could_ modify the information you get'. This is just putting another program in front of SC. You could have a youtube video with 50% transparency in front of the game and it wouldn't violate the TOS. I really don't see why this is even under debate. | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
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Fission
Canada1184 Posts
Edit: OP, I absolutely love this, thank you so, so much. | ||
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IIIOmegaIII
Sweden319 Posts
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manitoo
Canada3 Posts
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Leeto
United States1320 Posts
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
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Eleaven
772 Posts
On August 10 2011 11:23 L3gendary wrote: Can u use the overlay on other games like bw or just sc2? Anything you can run in windowed mode. | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
About the "controversy" - since it has no interaction with the client, it is fine. I agree it is little different than having the build on Notepad on your 2nd monitor - it's just slightly more convenient in terms of usability (easier to follow a build when it's right in front of you rather than on a different monitor/window). If this utility automated your playing up to X food, or read in and responded to changes in your supply/resources, then yes, certainly this would be "cheating" in the sense of giving an unfair advantage. About it being used in other programs - I'm pretty sure to have the overlay work with SC2 required specific coding to have it output the text to the SC2 client. I think it would need additional coding to show the information in SC:BW and the likes. (I could be wrong and haven't tried it yet) | ||
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TheAlchemist89
160 Posts
I realize this should not be against the TOS... as it's the same as using a sticky note... but do we know what blizzard thinks? | ||
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Hermasaurus
54 Posts
On August 10 2011 07:17 bgx wrote: gluing a paper or having other monitor is MUCH more distracting So it's a factor of distraction? It's okay to use certain methods to execute your build order properly as long as you sacrifice something, otherwise it will be considered cheating. Great point. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0xQIYl.jpg) | ||
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Eleaven
772 Posts
On August 10 2011 11:46 Existor wrote: You monster! | ||
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DrThorMD
Canada359 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
You monster! It's not mine, found 2 monitors photo in google and photoshoped with SC2 screenshot and notepad with random text, that looks like build order. Anyway, if player have 2 monitors, and second monitor with simply Windows Notepad with build order or opened image with builds, like this 3 images http://i.imgur.com/T2bT7.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3OzX9.jpg http://i.imgur.com/YdzT1.jpg It can be considered cheating too, if follow your logic. | ||
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Ungrateful
United States71 Posts
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
It is NOT intended as some sort of "cheat" for incapable people. It is intended for people learning and practicing new builds to have an cleaner alternative to things such as having a list of builds in notepad. The overlay is no different to running notepad in a different monitor, other than it gives the advantage of being in your StarCraft II field of vision. It is NOT against the ToS. There is no interaction with the SC2 client. If you feel people are cheating and should have to alt tab when learning a new build, you're very mean. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Holy hell, many people seem negative over this. It is NOT intended as some sort of "cheat" for incapable people. It is intended for people learning and practicing new builds to have an cleaner alternative to things such as having a list of builds in notepad. The overlay is no different to running notepad in a different monitor, other than it gives the advantage of being in your StarCraft II field of vision. It is NOT against the ToS. There is no interaction with the SC2 client. If you feel people are cheating and should have to alt tab when learning a new build, you're very mean. ^ this. Stop call everything "cheaters cheating!!!" There are widescreen/square-screen (more vision!!!), hotkeys are optimized for someone, someone got some buttons on mouse, and there are no macros (one button - for injection, another for backspace. Both buttons can be pressed at same time with one finger), someone got epic cool keyboard, that has timer with 40 seconds (who knows?) and pings every time, when it expires. Another guy can have second monitor and have NOTEPAD (omg, CHEATER!!) with build, or have screenshot with all builds for each situation, or like Veritas said above, just ALT-TAB to teamliquid.net and see build. Sry for bad english. | ||
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Z3kk
4099 Posts
One big problem I have found is that I stress waaay too much over build orders...I'll mess something, panic, and get stuck only a few minutes in floating 400 minerals or something and with not enough tech, units, etc. haha ^^; Obviously I'm not very good, period, but I'm playing with silver leaguers and can't go higher: I get crushed barely 5 minutes in by gold/pat because I have several hundred unused mins and I'm still stressing over the build order ;; This should be good to help me relax and actually play hehe thanks | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Obviously I'm not very good, period, but I'm playing with silver leaguers and can't go higher: I get crushed barely 5 minutes in by gold/pat because I have several hundred unused mins and I'm still stressing over the build order ;; This should be good to help me relax and actually play hehe thanks Best solution - play more | ||
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Z3kk
4099 Posts
Yeah, that's true. I actually don't own the game (lol) This is just from my experience playing beta (looooong time ago)+demo key, and I recently got to play once again, but was crushed (only played a few games) for all of the old reasons. If/when I manage to get SC2 again, the build order insert should help a lot. I was comfortable with everything except the early game build order shenanigans, so every single one of my losses (and there were a lot) were because of my build order panic hehe | ||
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On August 10 2011 03:53 JoshRT wrote: Is there a way you can extend this so that the build older shown changes at the touch of a button? Or maybe a flow chart of decision making? Say i see early 2nd gas on protoss and a 3 gate opening. I think possible DTs or stargate opening, so make engineering bay and put out a turret, make a raven, scout around for proxy stargate or pylon, wall off, etc etc That sounds like a really cool idea. Currently though, you can separate out variations by bolding them. e.g, ... 22 - herp 25 - derp *Variation 1 25 - blah 26 - blah ... *Variation 2 25 - other blah 26 - other blah ... | ||
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Jhohok
United States71 Posts
On August 10 2011 14:44 Veritas. wrote: That sounds like a really cool idea. Currently though, you can separate out variations by bolding them. e.g, lmao I can't stop laughing. I dunno why. And to people who call this "CHETIN" I thought most people on TL would be more intelligent than the flaming pits of acid and hell over at the Blizzard forums | ||
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Hokay
United States738 Posts
edit: forgot to say thanks | ||
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LWCrafter
Russian Federation2 Posts
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On August 10 2011 17:47 LWCrafter wrote: i think the "notebook" should contain more BO from wiki by default, probably all of them ^^ it must be not utility only but library also That might be good but metagame is always shifting and I feel a lot of the build orders in wikipedia are outdated, except the super standards. I think easiest thing is just to add new build orders from our fellow guys making guides at the sc2 strategy forum. They are pretty neat. Only thing that I could give feedback on with this is if it was possible to "add" more into it, when going into midgame etc. But perhaps making two guides for that is the solution so just swapping if you got high apm or time. | ||
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Sennap
Iceland88 Posts
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On August 10 2011 17:53 eYeball wrote: That might be good but metagame is always shifting and I feel a lot of the build orders in wikipedia are outdated, except the super standards. I think easiest thing is just to add new build orders from our fellow guys making guides at the sc2 strategy forum. They are pretty neat. Only thing that I could give feedback on with this is if it was possible to "add" more into it, when going into midgame etc. But perhaps making two guides for that is the solution so just swapping if you got high apm or time. Pretty much this. I was toying with adding a parser for sc2builds or something, or even making a public db on appengine. Also, having hotkeys for different builds is something I'd like to look at. On August 10 2011 18:08 Ruscour wrote: Any Linux user able to confirm if this works in Wine/Mono? It will probably work in the latest Mono. Not so sure about the overlay though. | ||
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MalditoKyo
France76 Posts
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enykie
Germany64 Posts
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Garnet
Vietnam9021 Posts
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On August 10 2011 23:40 eYeball wrote: Could you somehow make the background be changeable? I would prefer mine pitch black rather than transparent grey. Otherwise good job The grey is just while it's in unlocked mode. Double click it and everything but the text becomes invisible. | ||
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carwashguy
United States175 Posts
However, I do think it's bad practice. Do you think you'll see this on top pros' computers when they compete in matches? They wouldn't need it. That's because they have all their build orders memorized by heart. If you have to look at an overlay, no matter how convenient, you're dumping precious attention into something other than the actual game. You may say, "I'll just use it until I do have it memorized," but I see this more of a crutch than an actual learning tool. I can imagine how easy it would be to become dependent on this to know what to do next. That's why I prefer Yabot. With the -o setting, it forces you to remember what to do next, and then it gives you feedback so that you're actually learning (and not just following directions). After a couple hours of this, I have it memorized very well and am ready to go into multiplayer without needing any third-party help. | ||
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LWCrafter
Russian Federation2 Posts
On August 10 2011 18:16 Veritas. wrote: I was toying with adding a parser for sc2builds or something, or even making a public db on appengine. I see it this way... BOs list consists of two branches "My BOs" and "Build-in BOs". User edits "My BOs". At any given time he can press the [Import build-in] button and the program imports the BO library from a text file hosted anywhere (or in program autostart). All further reduces the formation of this file. Community responsibility, so to speak. =) And news about it "removed BO1... added BO1...". I think the program should be extremely simple. Adding complex mechanisms would make it uncomfortable. | ||
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PtM
89 Posts
On August 10 2011 23:59 carwashguy wrote: I don't think it's a question of cheating or not. Since it doesn't interact with the game, it's akin to having a written build order list on a notebook next to your computer. However, I do think it's bad practice. Do you think you'll see this on top pros' computers when they compete in matches? They wouldn't need it. That's because they have all their build orders memorized by heart. If you have to look at an overlay, no matter how convenient, you're dumping precious attention into something other than the actual game. You may say, "I'll just use it until I do have it memorized," but I see this more of a crutch than an actual learning tool. I can imagine how easy it would be to become dependent on this to know what to do next. That's why I prefer Yabot. With the -o setting, it forces you to remember what to do next, and then it gives you feedback so that you're actually learning (and not just following directions). After a couple hours of this, I have it memorized very well and am ready to go into multiplayer without needing any third-party help. Eh, personally I've already found it useful. Build orders aren't especially hard to memorize so I don't feel the need to use any sophisticated method to learn them. Normally I'd just play a couple games against the computer with a notepad file open on my second monitor, then practice it a few more times without the notepad file open and this would be more than enough to learn the build. This tool just gives me a more convenient way of going through that process. | ||
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Garnet
Vietnam9021 Posts
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
.WIthout doubt this is one of the easiest ways to learn builds without having to take your eyes off your main screen. Thanks! | ||
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TheLOLas
United States646 Posts
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
Given that the actual application of SC2 is not being affected in any way, and this duplicates various notebook, sticky note, or dual monitor setups, in a more "tech" solution; there is nothing wrong with it, and those opposing it as cheating are being fallacious. | ||
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Aean
Australia15 Posts
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Opera
France469 Posts
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On August 11 2011 16:59 Aean wrote: Hey man nice utility! Wondering if you can make the text smaller though? Click "Edit Overlay" | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
lmao dodger. The cellaphane thing MUST be cheating LOLOLOL. Whoever says that this is cheating, prove it instead of saying "omgomgomgo it's against ToS". It's not like a build order alone wins the game. @OP I love this. This makes learning builds and applying them on ladder SOOO much easier. | ||
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TheRageKage12
United States161 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On August 09 2011 19:02 Golgotha wrote: big difference between having a little sticky note on your monitor or a gigantic piece of paper stuck on, than an overlay that is directly within the monitor. It's not the same thing, so stop saying that it is. Also, can someone check if this is against blizzard rules? i love the tool but I believe it is against the user agreement. Erm.. It's not up to Blizzard to decide what you do with your computer outside of their game. What if I play with iTunes covering up half my screen? So what. It just sounds too convenient - which it is - and that is what bothers people. There is nothing invasive about it though, thus there is nothing Blizzard can bitch about. If I'm wrong then I will admit I'm wrong, get embarrassed, then eat something plastic. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On August 13 2011 07:03 TheRageKage12 wrote: How did you implement overlaying on the game? 1) Go to options 2) Change window mode from "FULLSCREEN" to "WINDOWED (FULLSCREEN)" 3) Click Windows hotkey for open Start menu in windows 4) ??? 5) Profit!! | ||
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FLiPNoTiK
United States62 Posts
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makk
United Kingdom132 Posts
Stupid question I'm sure but how do I move the overlay? | ||
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bruteMax
Canada339 Posts
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Khenra
Netherlands885 Posts
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reneg
United States859 Posts
Granted, i'm bad, so i could probably use every reminder i could get, but i think it's a really good / interesting community made project Keep up the good work | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=167295 | ||
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Zergalicious
United States29 Posts
Consent to Monitor. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH THE GAME. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE PROHIBITED BY SECTION 2. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, THE GAME MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER. From: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/sc2eula.html Meh, like always, if Blizzard decides that it's cheating, it's cheating. But, since this is only really an overlay that doesn't interact with the game (as stating above, ofc), I see no problem. Just wanted to quote the legal. ;D | ||
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esaul17
Canada547 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
i use paper laying in front of my monitor so its pretty much the same | ||
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CursedFeanor
Canada539 Posts
caused me to loose a lot of work at one point, which was kinda frustrating! now I know I need to press "update" before doing anything else... ~_~ | ||
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Szuu
Canada4 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:53 iaretehnoob wrote: overlay = cheating imo You're right... Better throw it up on my second monitor. | ||
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legatus legionis
Netherlands559 Posts
This makes that so much easier and better. For example a major pain was browsing through the pages to select the build order I was gonna do. Also the layout looks very good and usable, but the overlay feature blew me away. Especially after seeing Existor's screenshot, where he resized it and moved it into the bottom bar as not to obstruct vision. + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2011 06:22 Existor wrote: You can change size and font. Look at my style: Gluing a small paper to the edge of the monitor - cheating too? That is so handy <3 Say I spawn as P and decide to do some HuK style blink stalker. How the hell do you expect me to know when to chronoboost or put down the twilight council so everything lines up really well when I haven't played in a whole month! Seriously, I can see how this adds so much value for many people just to make the game a lot more fun and playable. You have more freedom, more efficient use of time. Rather than doing a build 100 times so you can execute it a week from now, you only have to do it 10 times because a week from now, this will help you execute it to a similar degree. These points kinda count for a lot of build order methods, it's just the integration and possible uses for this implementation that make me so excited and positive. If I may leave a few suggestions regarding the overlay. - Allow it to have a background. Say black. So that you can place it in more places over the current UI and have it retain great visibility. - Allow buildorders to be picked from the overlay with a dropdown menu. - Allow an icon only dropdown menu to fix the race(s) of the selections available in the dropdown menu. Additionally allow a checkbox to toggle the inclusion of general builds like ZvX. - Have a random button where it will randomly pick a buildorder for you within the set parameters. - Enable the usage of Global Hotkeys to execute these features. The major benefit would be that it allows you to stay ingame with everything (cursor) while managing the utility on the side. For example you could use Page Up and Page Down to browse/scroll through the dropdown menu's buildorder lists. Keep in mind I don't actually run windowed mode so I don't know exactly how this works. Because the length of the lists is gonna vary it would have to expand upwards or auto-scale or something. Maybe allow a window to dedicate an area of the screen to the utility, where it will scale down or not expand as opposed to scaling towards a really big font for shorter lists. Anyway, awesome! Edit: Decided to make a small picture to show the final part since I don't think that was clear enough. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sDoEE.jpg) The "red block" anchors a corner. Allow different corners to become an anchor. The "gray lines" set boundaries. So that you get control over the space and font scaling etc. Especially ment for when you "scroll/browse" through the lists "on the fly". *The picture contains 4 parts, so if you can only see two, open it in a new window. Should've had the picture scale | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On August 14 2011 04:16 legatus legionis wrote: This is so rediculously good. Every once a while I try to spend a lot of time playing. I would collect build orders and print them. Bind the pages together and have it stand on a thingy next to my monitor. This makes that so much easier and better. For example a major pain was browsing through the pages to select the build order I was gonna do. Also the layout looks very good and usable, but the overlay feature blew me away. Especially after seeing Existor's screenshot, where he resized it and moved it into the bottom bar as not to obstruct vision. + Show Spoiler + On August 10 2011 06:22 Existor wrote: You can change size and font. Look at my style: Gluing a small paper to the edge of the monitor - cheating too? That is so handy <3 Say I spawn as P and decide to do some HuK style blink stalker. How the hell do you expect me to know when to chronoboost or put down the twilight council so everything lines up really well when I haven't played in a whole month! Seriously, I can see how this adds so much value for many people just to make the game a lot more fun and playable. You have more freedom, more efficient use of time. Rather than doing a build 100 times so you can execute it a week from now, you only have to do it 10 times because a week from now, this will help you execute it to a similar degree. These points kinda count for a lot of build order methods, it's just the integration and possible uses for this implementation that make me so excited and positive. If I may leave a few suggestions regarding the overlay. - Allow it to have a background. Say black. So that you can place it in more places over the current UI and have it retain great visibility. - Allow buildorders to be picked from the overlay with a dropdown menu. - Allow an icon only dropdown menu to fix the race(s) of the selections available in the dropdown menu. Additionally allow a checkbox to toggle the inclusion of general builds like ZvX. - Have a random button where it will randomly pick a buildorder for you within the set parameters. - Enable the usage of Global Hotkeys to execute these features. The major benefit would be that it allows you to stay ingame with everything (cursor) while managing the utility on the side. For example you could use Page Up and Page Down to browse/scroll through the dropdown menu's buildorder lists. Keep in mind I don't actually run windowed mode so I don't know exactly how this works. Because the length of the lists is gonna vary it would have to expand upwards or auto-scale or something. Maybe allow a window to dedicate an area of the screen to the utility, where it will scale down or not expand as opposed to scaling towards a really big font for shorter lists. Anyway, awesome! Edit: Decided to make a small picture to show the final part since I don't think that was clear enough. + Show Spoiler + The "red block" anchors a corner. Allow different corners to become an anchor. The "gray lines" set boundaries. So that you get control over the space and font scaling etc. Especially ment for when you "scroll/browse" through the lists "on the fly". *The picture contains 4 parts, so if you can only see two, open it in a new window. Should've had the picture scale I'm not particularly interested in maintaining this project. It serves its primary purpose well enough, the overlay is secondary. Adding overlay interaction would be messier than I'd like due to the method it employs to be transparent and click-throughable. Global hotkeys would be possible, but also messy (keyboard hooks aren't fun). | ||
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
If you make any worthy changes, I ask you pass on the changes/source | ||
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Nightshake
France412 Posts
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Carbonthief
United States289 Posts
Which is a shame because I think it would be an amazingly awesome tool for practicing. | ||
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epidGoaty
United States219 Posts
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Syrupjuice
United States173 Posts
… not keen on the overlay aspect, but I'm not the one who's going to be using it ;D | ||
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theEpsilon
Austria23 Posts
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
On August 14 2011 12:09 theEpsilon wrote: I like it, but I would also like an option to remove the overlay once the build is over. A simple rightclick on it would do the trick imo. Left click then right click on the overlay while in game to remove it. Works for me. | ||
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theEpsilon
Austria23 Posts
On August 14 2011 12:20 Vore210 wrote: Left click then right click on the overlay while in game to remove it. Works for me. You sure you have locked the overlay? Right click works if it isn't locked, but if it is, nothing works. =( | ||
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
But I like to use pen and paper! I'm feeling old school. Great utility tool! I will use this a lot. | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On August 14 2011 10:46 Carbonthief wrote: I think this is fine for practice games, but if you're doing it on the ladder, I think it's cheating. I don't think it matters if you use notepad, an overlay, or tape a piece of paper to your monitor, it would still be technically cheating. The only difference is with an overlay, you break the TOS and risk getting your account banned. Which is a shame because I think it would be an amazingly awesome tool for practicing. Can you please back up this statement, I find it difficult to believe without proof, i.e. quote the relevant part of the TOS which forbids this. | ||
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Ponyo
United States1231 Posts
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Theovide
Sweden914 Posts
(Some say that this actually is cheating, meanwhile I don't think you would get banned for this I have to agree to an extent. I feel it's kind of similar as it was to have addons in WoW helping you in arena, they where allowed and could help you a lot, but they weren't allowed in E-sports, so those who where serious often played without to many addons.) | ||
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babybell
776 Posts
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
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theEpsilon
Austria23 Posts
On August 15 2011 08:09 dabom88 wrote: I request that in-game times be added as well so we know the timings for these build orders. The builds are completly editable, you can edit the time into any of them. To find out the correct timings, look at liquipedia or something. | ||
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Lapso
Mexico7 Posts
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Krede
Denmark139 Posts
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Kryt0s
Germany209 Posts
Edit: Of course you can't use YABOT on ladder... | ||
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + See the end of this message for details on invoking just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box. ************** Exception Text ************** System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object. at Build_Order_Notebook.frmMain.lvBuilds_MouseUp(Object sender, MouseEventArgs e) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e) at System.Windows.Forms.ListView.WmReflectNotify(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.ListView.WndProc(Message& m) at EXControls.EXListView.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m) at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam) ************** Loaded Assemblies ************** mscorlib Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4961 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll ---------------------------------------- Build Order Notebook Assembly Version: 1.0.4238.16229 Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0 CodeBase: file:///F:/Users/Zaid/Desktop/Build%20Order%20Notebook.exe ---------------------------------------- System.Windows.Forms Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4961 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll ---------------------------------------- System Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4962 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Drawing Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Xml Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Configuration Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll ---------------------------------------- vxvwvf6c Assembly Version: 1.0.4238.16229 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4962 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll ---------------------------------------- vehz0did Assembly Version: 1.0.4238.16229 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4962 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll ---------------------------------------- xtxilfk- Assembly Version: 1.0.4238.16229 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4962 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll ---------------------------------------- bdty1haw Assembly Version: 1.0.4238.16229 Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4962 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900) CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll ---------------------------------------- System.Core Assembly Version: 3.5.0.0 Win32 Version: 3.5.30729.4926 built by: NetFXw7 CodeBase: file:///F:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/3.5.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll ---------------------------------------- ************** JIT Debugging ************** To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this application or computer (machine.config) must have the jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section. The application must also be compiled with debugging enabled. For example: <configuration> <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" /> </configuration> When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer rather than be handled by this dialog box. | ||
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KorsatH
Italy26 Posts
Thanks a lot | ||
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SC2Epic
United States25 Posts
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Kamma
Denmark111 Posts
I can replace the little pieces of papers on my desktop now :D | ||
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neo_rtr
Sweden70 Posts
Now practising a build i notice that if i join a custom game, changing screens i loose track of the game. Say i am with a zerg. While the Sc2 screen is loading i need to alt-tab to the notebook and choose the proper build. I think IF you could add a button so while SC2 is full screen, not window, so i can choose the build order i want (with out Alt-Tab) i could help me, alot. Great work | ||
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GhostFall
United States830 Posts
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Veritas
United Kingdom106 Posts
On August 17 2011 18:04 GhostFall wrote: How come in everyone's screenshots, the overlay is clear. Mine has a white opaque background so it renders it unusable since it blocks the screen. To lock the overlay, double click inside the overlay content. | ||
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
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Octanepro
United States416 Posts
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Imalengrat
Australia365 Posts
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Kolvacs
Canada1203 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:53 iaretehnoob wrote: overlay = cheating imo You don't need to use it. This is an awesome program! :D | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6231 Posts
On August 23 2011 17:23 Kolvacs wrote: You don't need to use it. This is an awesome program! :D It's an important point, though. You could just put a post-it note on your monitor, sure; I don't think it's "cheating" at all, but if it's against ToS, which I'm pretty sure overlays are, it can get you banned from bnet. Sorry OP, it's an awesome little tool, but I won't be using it unless I know for sure it's green. Plus I have two monitors. | ||
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tyles
United Kingdom509 Posts
On August 23 2011 17:28 Belisarius wrote: It's an important point, though. You could just put a post-it note on your monitor, sure; I don't think it's "cheating" at all, but if it's against ToS, which I'm pretty sure overlays are, it can get you banned from bnet. Sorry OP, it's an awesome little tool, but I won't be using it unless I know for sure it's green. Plus I have two monitors. So you can make those build orders cover your whole second screen, you cheater! | ||
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Giant Squid Thing
England54 Posts
On August 23 2011 17:28 Belisarius wrote: It's an important point, though. You could just put a post-it note on your monitor, sure; I don't think it's "cheating" at all, but if it's against ToS, which I'm pretty sure overlays are, it can get you banned from bnet. Sorry OP, it's an awesome little tool, but I won't be using it unless I know for sure it's green. Plus I have two monitors. This hurts to read. You're basing your entire point on absolutely no evidence. 'I think' was your strongest point of conviction. get the ToS control+f "overlay" please think. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On August 09 2011 18:53 iaretehnoob wrote: overlay = cheating imo Unlike other overlays that flash every 20 seconds to say build a worker or provide outside mechanical assistance to the game this just shows a build order. You could put it on sticky notes around your monitor if you want. This doesnt actually give someone any real advantage other than saying : look this is what you do up to 40 food and 3 minutes into the game Cool app will definitely help with learning new BOs for sure. | ||
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CaptainPlatypus
United States852 Posts
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Gomox
32 Posts
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-Exodus-
Canada3 Posts
Thanks a lot! | ||
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Neagle
Mexico1 Post
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Asday
United Kingdom388 Posts
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Kajarn
United States126 Posts
I was recently teaching my brother how to play. He has some video game experience but no RTS experience. Learning builds/strategies is nothing new. But watching him constantly have to look down at a peice of paper to see when he builds his next pylon, only to not watch the probe that walked right past his first pylon into the back corner of his base..... Good for those who don't know a build and can work on both their awareness (looking at the overlay kind of like looking at the minimap) and the build itself at the same time. Eventually they won't need the overlay and can instead use this skill of constantly looking over at something to good use with the minimap. | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
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kineticSYN
United States909 Posts
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Cirqueenflex
499 Posts
you are amazing, thank you very much for this useful tool! | ||
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CooDu
Australia899 Posts
Great contribution thankyou! | ||
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smocca
United States83 Posts
On September 03 2011 03:10 CaptainPlatypus wrote: It throws up unhandled exceptions pretty frequently for me, not sure why. Windows 7, everything latest. I had this problem too. It only seems to happen when I try to sort by matchup type. If I avoid that it seems to never happen. | ||
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
Though not sure about using the overlay myself, afraid people might get banned (even by accident like the VoIP thingy) | ||
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ShadowBumble
Netherlands87 Posts
On September 13 2011 17:43 Mithriel wrote: Wow thanks!!! I always had 3 different notepads open on my second monitor (TvP, TvZ and TvT buildorders). But that was really messy. Now i'll just use the notebook for this, nicely and organised!! Though not sure about using the overlay myself, afraid people might get banned (even by accident like the VoIP thingy) Well the overlay is a different story but i like it just because i can quick and clear look up things on my secondairy screen :d Nice App | ||
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Gomox
32 Posts
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
)) | ||
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theturbo
Australia7 Posts
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Makaveli1
United States118 Posts
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HorussTv
Mexico34 Posts
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genius_man16
United States749 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 20 2011 16:37 genius_man16 wrote: Is there any way to make the text bigger? I tried using it on my TV screen but it's almost impossible to read b/c the text is so small and I can't resize it. You can change font and size of text | ||
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-iNko
Lithuania160 Posts
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L3o
United States28 Posts
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Johnnybb
Denmark486 Posts
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Sergail
France3 Posts
SC2 Scrapbook on Youtube Build Order Notebook SC2 Scrapbook Overlay pour Build Order Clairement ça va vous guidez à réaliser votre Build-order (BO) 1. To use the overlay, YOU MUST USE WINDOWED MODE. The way this overlay works is the same way there is absolutely no reason to get banned for using it. It's an invisible window, not a DirectX overlay injection. 2. People still having issues not mentioned above should post here or message me. 3. Mac users can use Mono, but it's doubtful that the overlays will work. Lien du Téléchargement : https://bitbucket.org/Veritasimo/sc2-scrapbook/downloads/SC2Scrapbook 2.2.zip Facebook : http://facebook.com/pages/Summer-Et-Sergail/231041386922361 | ||
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SedativeDev
Slovenia316 Posts
Instead of writing on paper u just open scrapbook an watch BO from there. tnx for this kind of program which helps us who can't play more than maybe hour a day. | ||
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