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MLG Potential Prize Pool Increase - Page 25

Forum Index > SC2 General
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sanddbox_tl
Profile Joined July 2011
United States20 Posts
July 29 2011 22:58 GMT
#481
On July 30 2011 07:51 UniversalMind wrote:
Incontrol is know for being extremely inconsistent so his post does not shock me


The word you're looking for is "hypocritical", or perhaps "douche-tastic".

User was warned for this post
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
July 29 2011 23:00 GMT
#482
On July 30 2011 07:39 Immolate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 07:34 Nemireck wrote:
On July 30 2011 07:23 s4life wrote:
On July 30 2011 05:38 Corrupted wrote:
On July 30 2011 05:32 s4life wrote:
So he get a million bucks and he raises the prizes by a lot -- say 50%? -- that would make a whooping 7k for first prize... only the UFC pays worse to its players -- relative to their profit -- I believe.


To be fair to the UFC, their top fighters make millions per fight. A vast amount of "smaller" tourneys than MLG pay out more in prize money than them. It is an embarrassing issue. They should feel embarrassed about it. I don't have much opinion about what's going on in this thread...but there is no doubt the prize pool is an issue that needs to be talked about. Any discussion of it being lowered are incredibly offensive and should not be discussed. If that was ever actually considered, they should just shut their doors.


The actual figures for UFC fighters -- the most popular ones like Lesnar -- are around 500K per fight... the individual bonuses are not disclosed though... but yeah I agree that MLG is infinitely worse in this respect. You have NASL pays 100K, IPL pays 50K and plenty of small tournaments here and there easily exceed 10-20K in prize money.. to offer 14K as total prize money for SC2 borders on exploitation and it's certainly extremely greedy for a business that turns out 30 million in profits yearly.



MLG loses money yearly, at best it breaks even, or makes a very, very small profit. You're talking about $30 million in "revenue", which is simply a measure of the money coming into the business, before measuring the costs associated with running the business in the first place.


why does mlg continue then? theres got to be at least some incentive to continue and its prob not some bullshit like doing it for the fans because everything is for profits.


Like almost all business ventures, the idea is that you can operate on a loss for the first few years, while simultaneously growing and expanding the business. Up-front costs are higher than the cost of growth, so long as you continue to grow and expand, eventually you make a profit.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
UniversalMind
Profile Joined March 2011
United States326 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 23:03:59
July 29 2011 23:00 GMT
#483
On July 30 2011 07:58 sanddbox_tl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 07:51 UniversalMind wrote:
Incontrol is know for being extremely inconsistent so his post does not shock me


The word you're looking for is "hypocritical", or perhaps "douche-tastic".


yeah but I try to a avoid those words so I do not get a warning or possible ban <.<

mods be tripping
xGrief
Profile Joined April 2010
United States56 Posts
July 29 2011 23:00 GMT
#484
If anything can be gained from this thread, it's that incontrol is probably the most inconsistent person ever. When the NASL Season 1 was about to start, he was hyping it up and practically begging people to buy season passes to support E-Sports. The result was meh (and I'm being generous because I bought the season pass). Now that Sundance is asking for support when he's shown that MLG can put out a quality product, he gets all butthurt for no reason. (and also makes comments that would get anyone else banned for trolling)

For something as niche as E-Sports, I'm ready to spend money to support it. To expect anything else is kind of ungrateful.
Vadrigar
Profile Joined January 2011
Bulgaria2379 Posts
July 29 2011 23:10 GMT
#485
On July 30 2011 07:58 sanddbox_tl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 07:51 UniversalMind wrote:
Incontrol is know for being extremely inconsistent so his post does not shock me


The word you're looking for is "hypocritical", or perhaps "douche-tastic".


Thank you!
Seriously, Incontrol don't you have a tournament to prepare for? What kind of a "pro"-gamer goes on a hating spree several hours before a match...
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
July 29 2011 23:24 GMT
#486
On July 30 2011 07:44 Serene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 07:39 Immolate wrote:
On July 30 2011 07:34 Nemireck wrote:
On July 30 2011 07:23 s4life wrote:
On July 30 2011 05:38 Corrupted wrote:
On July 30 2011 05:32 s4life wrote:
So he get a million bucks and he raises the prizes by a lot -- say 50%? -- that would make a whooping 7k for first prize... only the UFC pays worse to its players -- relative to their profit -- I believe.


To be fair to the UFC, their top fighters make millions per fight. A vast amount of "smaller" tourneys than MLG pay out more in prize money than them. It is an embarrassing issue. They should feel embarrassed about it. I don't have much opinion about what's going on in this thread...but there is no doubt the prize pool is an issue that needs to be talked about. Any discussion of it being lowered are incredibly offensive and should not be discussed. If that was ever actually considered, they should just shut their doors.


The actual figures for UFC fighters -- the most popular ones like Lesnar -- are around 500K per fight... the individual bonuses are not disclosed though... but yeah I agree that MLG is infinitely worse in this respect. You have NASL pays 100K, IPL pays 50K and plenty of small tournaments here and there easily exceed 10-20K in prize money.. to offer 14K as total prize money for SC2 borders on exploitation and it's certainly extremely greedy for a business that turns out 30 million in profits yearly.



MLG loses money yearly, at best it breaks even, or makes a very, very small profit. You're talking about $30 million in "revenue", which is simply a measure of the money coming into the business, before measuring the costs associated with running the business in the first place.


why does mlg continue then? theres got to be at least some incentive to continue and its prob not some bullshit like doing it for the fans because everything is for profits.


MLG is a Venture Capital Project. Most investors expect a loss in the first few years of operations but expect empirical evidence of sustainability within that time span. To do this Sundance is trying to get the subscriptions up, otherwise as he pointed out they could lose future funding. Leading to cuts across the board which he acknowledged in his second post.


Yeah sort of like PS3 and Xbox 360 sales in the first few years sold at loss per console but builds consumer market up for those consoles and lead to profits once more and more games are bought on each of those consoles.
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
Flaccid
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
8929 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-29 23:26:15
July 29 2011 23:25 GMT
#487
Just for shits, I'm gonna put this in perspective:
  • 3 month subscription to MLG: $10. Depending on the dates, this can net you 2 or 3 events
  • 12 month subscription to MLG: $30. This will get you all six events

Now for the perspective part: As a dude watching online, it cost me $455 to watch MLG Columbus. I know, right? Here's how it went down:

I had to attend a wedding that weekend way, way, way out of town. In order to ensure that I could watch the Friday night games and sneak out between the ceremony and reception to catch some Saturday, I booked a hotel for two nights. The only hotel in the town with TVs that I could hook an HDMI cable into. Given that we already had a place to crash, this was an extra cost.
  • Hotel room: $240
  • HD pass for the weekend: $10

But it turns out that I would also miss the Saturday night games because the reception was super long and I was asked to help with the cleanup which would keep me busy until about 3 am. To combat this, I purchased the Justin.TV app for my iPhone so that I could watch it all night.
  • Justin.TV iPhone App: $5

The tricky thing with this setup is that unlimited data plans in Canada occupy the same realm of myth as UFOs, Sasquatch and the Loch Ness Moster. I burned through my subscription data pretty darn quickly.
  • Additional data charges on my cellphone bill: $120

And that's where it should end, right? Wrong. Because I was totally distracted and watching MLG while the reception was going on, I totally missed the dodge when some girl threw up on me. Curdled milk puke is tough to get out of a suit.
  • Dry-cleaning bill: $80

And that brings the grand total, all in an effort to watch MLG Columbus while in the middle of nowhere, to $455. And know what? It was worth it. Almost.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
ArturosII
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia54 Posts
July 29 2011 23:33 GMT
#488
On July 30 2011 08:25 Flaccid wrote:
Just for shits, I'm gonna put this in perspective:


This doesn't put anything in perspective because it's not a normal situation. This just shows how far you are willing to go to watch this. I don't have that kind of money to do shit like that so I'd've probably been content with watching Twitter all weekend.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy but I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.
Corrupted
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1255 Posts
July 29 2011 23:34 GMT
#489
On July 30 2011 07:23 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 05:38 Corrupted wrote:
On July 30 2011 05:32 s4life wrote:
So he get a million bucks and he raises the prizes by a lot -- say 50%? -- that would make a whooping 7k for first prize... only the UFC pays worse to its players -- relative to their profit -- I believe.


To be fair to the UFC, their top fighters make millions per fight. A vast amount of "smaller" tourneys than MLG pay out more in prize money than them. It is an embarrassing issue. They should feel embarrassed about it. I don't have much opinion about what's going on in this thread...but there is no doubt the prize pool is an issue that needs to be talked about. Any discussion of it being lowered are incredibly offensive and should not be discussed. If that was ever actually considered, they should just shut their doors.


The actual figures for UFC fighters -- the most popular ones like Lesnar -- are around 500K per fight... the individual bonuses are not disclosed though...



Yeah...we all know that Lesnar, GSP, Silva, etc. also get a PPV cut. Many have put their per bout $ at 4mill+.
"MarineKing rolling double sevens there" -Artosis
iokke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1179 Posts
July 29 2011 23:35 GMT
#490
On July 30 2011 08:25 Flaccid wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Just for shits, I'm gonna put this in perspective:
  • 3 month subscription to MLG: $10. Depending on the dates, this can net you 2 or 3 events
  • 12 month subscription to MLG: $30. This will get you all six events

Now for the perspective part: As a dude watching online, it cost me $455 to watch MLG Columbus. I know, right? Here's how it went down:

I had to attend a wedding that weekend way, way, way out of town. In order to ensure that I could watch the Friday night games and sneak out between the ceremony and reception to catch some Saturday, I booked a hotel for two nights. The only hotel in the town with TVs that I could hook an HDMI cable into. Given that we already had a place to crash, this was an extra cost.
  • Hotel room: $240
  • HD pass for the weekend: $10

But it turns out that I would also miss the Saturday night games because the reception was super long and I was asked to help with the cleanup which would keep me busy until about 3 am. To combat this, I purchased the Justin.TV app for my iPhone so that I could watch it all night.
  • Justin.TV iPhone App: $5

The tricky thing with this setup is that unlimited data plans in Canada occupy the same realm of myth as UFOs, Sasquatch and the Loch Ness Moster. I burned through my subscription data pretty darn quickly.
  • Additional data charges on my cellphone bill: $120

And that's where it should end, right? Wrong. Because I was totally distracted and watching MLG while the reception was going on, I totally missed the dodge when some girl threw up on me. Curdled milk puke is tough to get out of a suit.
  • Dry-cleaning bill: $80

And that brings the grand total, all in an effort to watch MLG Columbus while in the middle of nowhere, to $455. And know what? It was worth it. Almost.


rofl..

well the 80 is an unfair charge tbh...
Crop circles are Chuck Norris' way of telling the world that sometimes corn needs to lie the f*** down. rerereredit.. I never get it right the 1st time
ELA
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark4608 Posts
July 29 2011 23:36 GMT
#491
On July 30 2011 08:25 Flaccid wrote:
Just for shits, I'm gonna put this in perspective:
  • 3 month subscription to MLG: $10. Depending on the dates, this can net you 2 or 3 events
  • 12 month subscription to MLG: $30. This will get you all six events

Now for the perspective part: As a dude watching online, it cost me $455 to watch MLG Columbus. I know, right? Here's how it went down:

I had to attend a wedding that weekend way, way, way out of town. In order to ensure that I could watch the Friday night games and sneak out between the ceremony and reception to catch some Saturday, I booked a hotel for two nights. The only hotel in the town with TVs that I could hook an HDMI cable into. Given that we already had a place to crash, this was an extra cost.
  • Hotel room: $240
  • HD pass for the weekend: $10

But it turns out that I would also miss the Saturday night games because the reception was super long and I was asked to help with the cleanup which would keep me busy until about 3 am. To combat this, I purchased the Justin.TV app for my iPhone so that I could watch it all night.
  • Justin.TV iPhone App: $5

The tricky thing with this setup is that unlimited data plans in Canada occupy the same realm of myth as UFOs, Sasquatch and the Loch Ness Moster. I burned through my subscription data pretty darn quickly.
  • Additional data charges on my cellphone bill: $120

And that's where it should end, right? Wrong. Because I was totally distracted and watching MLG while the reception was going on, I totally missed the dodge when some girl threw up on me. Curdled milk puke is tough to get out of a suit.
  • Dry-cleaning bill: $80

And that brings the grand total, all in an effort to watch MLG Columbus while in the middle of nowhere, to $455. And know what? It was worth it. Almost.


Fuckin' aye son, that's what I'm talking about

GG!
The first link of chain forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.
Flaccid
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
8929 Posts
July 29 2011 23:57 GMT
#492
On July 30 2011 08:33 ArturosII wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 08:25 Flaccid wrote:
Just for shits, I'm gonna put this in perspective:


This doesn't put anything in perspective because it's not a normal situation.


Albeit it was a bit tongue in cheek, but the perspective part came in that you get hundreds of dollars of entertainment for free or a meager $10 charge if you want to toss some change in the hat.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
drop271
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand286 Posts
July 30 2011 00:57 GMT
#493
Agree with Sundance, good on him.

Lots of people in eSports have been there before there was the potential for $ that there is now. We don't blame casters like Day9 for (presumably) starting to profit from it. Likewise with JP, likewise with other casters, players from streaming. Why shouldn't MLG?

Why doesn't iNControl drop the sarcasm and just come out and claim Sundance is profiteering? Definitely not a post that supports the growth of eSports.
GreatHate
Profile Joined April 2011
United States73 Posts
July 30 2011 01:13 GMT
#494
iNcontroL I'm a big fan of your SC2 personality but you really need to take another approach to the whole "troll" thing. You constantly acknowledge and call people out on your stream and webshows for trolling, yet you actively participate in it.

Good luck with the goal Sundance, it gave me an incentive to buy a pass. It's cool knowing that you are still looking for things to use subscription funds for and not just banking them.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
July 30 2011 01:35 GMT
#495
On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2011 14:20 iNcontroL wrote:
Uhhh if you give me a million dollars I will raise the prizepool??? Wow! That is amazing!



Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success?

You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale.

Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends.

Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up.



Man, I wish I had a switch that turned on all of that...

Joking aside, I bought an HD pass because MLG has been a shining example of how to handle problems. That's something I can respect and pay for.
Sd9
Profile Joined May 2011
United States26 Posts
July 30 2011 01:38 GMT
#496
I like how iNcontroL is somehow the one at fault here. He's playing in the fucking tournament. Go ahead and think he's trolling or being sarcastic, (or whatever else you want to say) but the heat he's getting from a few posts he's thrown out WHILE HE IS PRESENTLY AT MLG is ridiculous.

More subscribers means more money? Sure. More money means... a large increase in the somewhat low prize pool? Sure. Sounds good. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Nothing is wrong with that.

The only thing iNcontroL is commenting on is how Sundance sounded. It's got nothing to do with the tournament, and everything to do with the image of esports and Sundance himself.

Get back to watching your HD with no advertisements all you haters. You paid money to enjoy MLG not to hate on your hater target, haters.
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 01:47:33
July 30 2011 01:47 GMT
#497
On July 30 2011 08:25 Flaccid wrote:
And that brings the grand total, all in an effort to watch MLG Columbus while in the middle of nowhere, to $455. And know what? It was worth it. Almost.


Nice . Like others said though, most people do not have much spare money going around./

I mean how can I buy hats on TF2 if I'm paying for SC2 related stuff?

Solution to this is to have Blizzard sponsor these events and give limited edition items (well maybe decals and/or portraits) for people who buy the HD package?

Except that would be evil.... but sadly it works >.<.

Post actually started as a joke then I realized that Blizzard could do it. They already do it with virtual Blizzcon tickets (get everything you can get for free on youtube afterwards for only $39.95. Everyone knows it's for the limited edition SC2 and WoW items >.>).

Valve helps some games out by letting you obtain a limited edition (well "Genuine" version which goes higher in the trade market) if you pre order stuff (only if they say it gets you a TF2 item though).

Overall this sounds like an evil idea but it may help eSports (some people who may not even be into eSports would buy these things just for the items. For example imagine you get an exclusive WoW and/or SC2 portrait, item, pet, etc if you bought the HD vresion of<insert Tournament tickets here>).

Now that I really think about it, WoW players have lots of money (well they're willing to pay lots of money. I've seen a Blizzcon 2007 item go for $500+ on Ebay). WoW players like limited stuff. Limited stuff + eSports ticket + WoW players = Helps eSports >.>.
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
July 30 2011 01:50 GMT
#498
People love to get worked up on TL over insignificant things. This is just yet another example.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 02:02:42
July 30 2011 01:55 GMT
#499
On July 30 2011 07:29 hellsan631 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2011 02:41 SundanceMLG wrote:
On July 29 2011 14:20 iNcontroL wrote:
Uhhh if you give me a million dollars I will raise the prizepool??? Wow! That is amazing!



Months ago you gave me shit about the prize pool and now I'm putting a simple and obtainable goal out there for the entire community and you give me shit again - and that's fine. I still respect you and appreciate what you've done and will continue to do for the scene. My question is this - if the number was 50,000 would you take an issue with my approach? How about 15,000? What if I didn't say a thing and just watched my spreadsheets populate with numbers and kept the community in the dark? Shouldn't the people who love this have some insight into what is needed for success?

You're either in or you're out. $30 a year from 100,000 people makes this company a real business and not just a passion project from a guy with a hippy name who refuses to quit. $30 a year from 10,000 people means that we're all wrong and there isn't enough fan support to sustain a business of scale.

Less than a dime a day from less than 10% of the people who visit our site over the course of an event weekend allows me to flip a switch and change next year to a structure that supports 24 live events & 28 meaningful ladders. 52 competitions with nearly 2 million dollars of prize money and stipends.

Again - I don't care if you think I'm an asshole or a money grubbing prick. I just want to find out if what we do is actually meaningful to enough of you to step up.



That's nice. Except, your still confused on what we actually wanted from you. I would be surprised if there were 100,000 people willing to give up 30$, considering the largest broadcasts of sc2 to date have been around the 80k concurrent range. Considering that a fraction of people will actually pay for anything, that's around say 40k at most, would be willing to buy your pass.

That is, if you didn't cast your self as someone who isn't really "in touch" with its user base. By that, i mean the fact that you think that we want "more prize pool". While more prize pool would be nice (and i'm not complaining), its NOT what was asked for from the community, and on SOTG.

What Tyler was referring too, and what made you the laughing stock of the community, was the fact that the prize pool distribution is way too heavy for the winner of mlg, and gives nothing for the top most players. He/We were suggesting that instead of first place being 5000, and so on down the line, paying out till 8th place, he wanted something that was of a lower first place, and paid more, say, for the people who placed in the top 14 or so. (3000 1st, 2000 2nd, 1500 3rd, 1200 4th, 1000 5th, 800 6-8th, etc. Same prize pool) *These arn't the exact numbers, just something i came up with on the top of my head.

Of course, you wouldn't actually be able to sign out and give that very large check, with the cool background, and the higher prize pool on it. (Ego anyone?) Instead, you turn the table, and change the problem to what it would take for a large prize pool.

We know that you will be able to give more if you get more. Its common sense. What we need is a slight taste, relating that back to a previous success (like how your moving sc2 to the main stage area).

What we don't need is for someone to shove t-shirts down our throats, products to buy, and being told that if your not buying, your not helping. Saying these things makes the value of your brand go down, and makes you seem a little bit obtuse.

When football started out as a professional sport, do you think the owners of teams went around the stadiums, making speeches, going on newspaper and radio, and talking about the financial stability of the sport, and begging people to throw money at him? (no, they did this in private, talking to investors and sponsors)

MLG will succeed or fail, not due to the amount of people that throw money at you, but because of your sponsorships and viewer numbers. (Which is something that you cannot ask directly for.) Increased viewer numbers (premium or not), will increase sponsorship interest, which will in turn help generate that 3 million you are asking for.

So instead of asking people for their money, please, ask just for their willingness to watch MLG, (people might be more interested in buying an mlg membership if they can "trust" the company they are buying it from). In the long run, becoming a sustainable business (or professional sport) has whole lot to do with how you present your product, and how many people you can get to watch it.




lol @ this post. I love seeing TL randoms take someone they perceive to be in a position of power to task. They write these detailed posts ripping the person apart like he really did something wrong, when in fact he just made 2 harmless tweets. Telling Sundance about what his business model is ROFL. ("MLG will succeed or fail, not due to the amount of people that throw money at you, but because of your sponsorships and viewer numbers.") Get over yourself kid.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-30 02:02:21
July 30 2011 01:57 GMT
#500
repost
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