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On July 26 2011 14:04 Juanald wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 14:01 Dakkas wrote:On July 26 2011 13:57 Juanald wrote:On July 26 2011 09:05 CellTech wrote:
If EG *really* cared about having top tier players it wouldn't contradict itself with much of it's current roster.
huh? Everyone on EG is top tear... Machine.. LzGamer.. InControll .. Axslave .. DeMuslem .. Idra ... you cant be serious?  You're joking right? Other than Idra, the rest aren't even top-tier for foreigners Machine is easily top 3 foriegn zerg in my opinion even with players like mma boxer and choya joining MLG anahiem machine is considered a favorite that says something. the rest might not have the same celebrity as idra but any one of them can take a major tourney. dont let jealousy or hate blind u these players are far from mediocre.
Better than Dimaga, Morrow, Idra, Ret, Sen, Haypro?
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i dont really think Milkis deserves an apology. Clearly Milkis has no reason to need to contact EG for their side of the story but clearly by not doing so and based on his actions on Twitter afterwards he was presenting a biased opinion that was very negative towards EG. Thats perfectly within his rights to do so, he isn't claiming to be an unbiased journalist. But EG has no reason to be happy about what he did.
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I hope everyone can come to forgive each other and this misunderstanding can be forgotten.
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On July 26 2011 14:22 fauxGsMC wrote:
i dont really think Milkis deserves an apology. Clearly Milkis has no reason to need to contact EG for their side of the story but clearly by not doing so and based on his actions on Twitter afterwards he was presenting a biased opinion that was very negative towards EG. Thats perfectly within his rights to do so, he isn't claiming to be an unbiased journalist. But EG has no reason to be happy about what he did.
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? He translated news as it came out. He was being unbiased by releasing information. IF HE withheld the information he would be bias in favor of EG. My god some people....
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eg was good at getting sponsors? i remember it being eg was a 2nd tier team, til all the good teams got picked up by cgs(freeing up all the sponsors) and the sponsors really only had 1 or 2 teams left to sponsor
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IMO:
EG and TSL both acted unprofessional in every matter. It is like the organizations are being run by children.
No longer a fan of either.. in fact i'm an anti-fan now
And I wan't a public apology for Milkis if u want my neutrality towards your organization
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On July 26 2011 14:19 OPL3SA2 wrote:
It's kind of weird to publicly apologize while at the same time saying you did nothing wrong. Personally I agree that you did nothing wrong, and apologizing is giving the other side of the argument merit.
Personally I think Mr. Lee should apologize for going into public channels so quickly. That was the most unprofessional thing about this entire episode.
Really? I think that is unprofessional, BUT I think the MOST unprofessional thing about this entire episode was EG not contacting TSL first about their interest in one of its players. One organization should directly contact the other organization about acquiring one of its "assets"(puma was not under contract, but was nonetheless a member of TSL). That is precisely why this whole thing comes off as shifty or shady on EG's part. However, from EG's perspective, contacting the player first would lead to a higher chance of him actually wanting to come over to their team. I think if they contacted TSL first there would be a less likely chance that puma would've ended up going to EG. Not saying puma wouldnt have ended up with EG, but i just think that it would be less likely if the coaches were talked to first. By talking to the player first they got to entice the player with all their benefits and plant the seed without the coaches even knowing.
I would like to know what would've come from all this if EG had just contacted TSL first. Would be pretty interesting.
I would also like to say that EG knew exactly what they were doing by contacting the player first. They shouldnt apologize either, they intended to acquire Puma. Like EGAlex said, EG has a history of buying its players.
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On July 26 2011 14:14 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 14:03 tyCe wrote:
Well, to be honest... I think the idea of letting the player approach the coach is really unprofessional. In my mind, it should be the organisation that approaches another to inquire about one of its players. You see this in football (not handegg) all the time. Clubs always complain when other clubs approach its players behind their backs and pretty much convince them or entice them to join and let the player broach the subject with their own clubs. It's not the proper procedure, and I don't blame TSL for feeling cheated out of this "transfer". I'm sure EG felt that they were more likely to get PuMa (or at least, on the cheap) if PuMa did the talking. If EG approached TSL, TSL would probably just sign PuMa with a contract immediately.
I don't think EG should deny its wrongdoing. It wasn't the proper procedure. It wasn't gentlemanly. EG shouldn't bleat that it's innocent as a lamb. The signing is secure anyway and EG knew what the PR risks were. Just cop it like a man, yo. So if EG talked with TSL first, then TSL may have quickly had Puma sign a contract, and Puma would miss a great opportunity. Anyways, I've already said this many times in this thread, but what this whole argument comes down to is what you believe is more important: the players or the organizations they are part of. If we believe the players are more important then we should be happy that EG did a good thing for Puma.
Are you kidding? Players have responsibilities too. Just because a young 20-something year old progamer doesn't have his moral values in the right places, doesn't mean that EG should capitalise on that and use him as a pawn to leverage their position against TSL. If EG cared about the moral good of the sport, they would use the proper procedure. Obviously, EG cares more about themselves than any moral responsibilities, and this transfer controversy resulted.
It is not a question of whether EG wanted to help PuMa's interests or respect TSL. You have got to be kidding yourself if you believe that EG acted in PuMa's interests and so they secured the deal. EG acted in EG's interests, which happened also to be in PuMa's interests (i.e. done deal). EG saw an opportunity with PuMa given that he wasn't in a contract and knew they were in a good position to sign him. Legally, there was no problem with what they did. They knew that time was of the essence and didn't want to give any hints to TSL, so they fed PuMa some utopian prospects and let him do the talking.
TSL was naive. They should have contracted all their players that they were sure they wanted to retain. They are not blameless, as they probably thought themselves that by not contracting their players, it would allow them to dump the failed players easier.
On the other hand, EG is not blameless. EG is a veteran of the e-sports scene and they knew that by snatching PuMa, who had been trained in the TSL house since he began SC2, there would be a huge public backlash. What they did was legal, not moral. It wasn't just immoral - it was nasty. They knew the PR risks and they did it anyway. I guess the backlash mitigation plan was just to post the "true story" where it reveals that they basically put the whole blame on PuMa and TSL. Just because PuMa told EG that his father-figure, manager and coach of the last year, who's managing a team mired in the process of rebuilding, and was kind enough to allow PuMa to join the NASL and attend the NASL finals, was "amicable" in receiving the news that his top player would leave the TSL without any compensation and effective next week, does not mean that EG can rely on that news and use it as a scapegoat when the inevitable public outcry begins.
Seriously, EG is blameless? The least they could have done was approach TSL and tell them about the conversation with PuMa. TSL would obviously try to retain PuMa with generous terms, but they probably did that anyway and it didn't work. I don't know why they felt it was best to resort to dirty tactics.
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On July 26 2011 11:16 Cousin wrote:
First of all I don't understand the whole "approach the team first" mentality. So you go to Mr. Lee and say, "Hey can we have PuMa?" No. You send a statement:
"We are interested in recruiting PuMa and we plan to make him an offer in the immediate future"
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On July 26 2011 14:22 LeopoldStotch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 14:04 Juanald wrote:On July 26 2011 14:01 Dakkas wrote:On July 26 2011 13:57 Juanald wrote:On July 26 2011 09:05 CellTech wrote:
If EG *really* cared about having top tier players it wouldn't contradict itself with much of it's current roster.
huh? Everyone on EG is top tear... Machine.. LzGamer.. InControll .. Axslave .. DeMuslem .. Idra ... you cant be serious? You're joking right? Other than Idra, the rest aren't even top-tier for foreigners Machine is easily top 3 foriegn zerg in my opinion even with players like mma boxer and choya joining MLG anahiem machine is considered a favorite that says something. the rest might not have the same celebrity as idra but any one of them can take a major tourney. dont let jealousy or hate blind u these players are far from mediocre. Better than Dimaga, Morrow, Idra, Ret, Sen, Haypro?
idra ret and morrow are good but never seem to perform to expectations. i think haypro definetly has the potential to be top 3 if not the best zerg he just needs more tourney experiance. when streaming he seems unbeatable but seems to choke on stage.
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On July 26 2011 14:22 fauxGsMC wrote:
i dont really think Milkis deserves an apology. Clearly Milkis has no reason to need to contact EG for their side of the story but clearly by not doing so and based on his actions on Twitter afterwards he was presenting a biased opinion that was very negative towards EG. Thats perfectly within his rights to do so, he isn't claiming to be an unbiased journalist. But EG has no reason to be happy about what he did.
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Ya I agree with this. I don't agree with what Alex said about journalism, but at the same time I don't think it needs an apology. He just has an opinion on it that many people disagree with. No need to force someone to apologize for that.
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Apologise to milkis and then maybe Tl will get over it
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On July 26 2011 14:30 Juanald wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 14:22 LeopoldStotch wrote:On July 26 2011 14:04 Juanald wrote:On July 26 2011 14:01 Dakkas wrote:On July 26 2011 13:57 Juanald wrote:On July 26 2011 09:05 CellTech wrote:
If EG *really* cared about having top tier players it wouldn't contradict itself with much of it's current roster.
huh? Everyone on EG is top tear... Machine.. LzGamer.. InControll .. Axslave .. DeMuslem .. Idra ... you cant be serious? You're joking right? Other than Idra, the rest aren't even top-tier for foreigners Machine is easily top 3 foriegn zerg in my opinion even with players like mma boxer and choya joining MLG anahiem machine is considered a favorite that says something. the rest might not have the same celebrity as idra but any one of them can take a major tourney. dont let jealousy or hate blind u these players are far from mediocre. Better than Dimaga, Morrow, Idra, Ret, Sen, Haypro? idra ret and morrow are good but never seem to perform to expectations. i think haypro definetly has the potential to be top 3 if not the best zerg he just needs more tourney experiance. when streaming he seems unbeatable but seems to choke on stage.
Sen > IdrA > Dimaga/MorroW > Ret > HayprO > ... > Machine
IMO.
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If the team wanted Puma, they should have contracted him.
When he's not working under contract, he has no ethical, or legal responsibility to let anyone else decide what he wants to do with his life.
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It's good to hear EG's side. I think it's all been blown out of proportion, and I hope that this statement will help put everything into perspective.
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On July 26 2011 14:29 domane wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 11:16 Cousin wrote:
First of all I don't understand the whole "approach the team first" mentality. So you go to Mr. Lee and say, "Hey can we have PuMa?" Wrong. Not a question but a statement. "We are interested in recruiting PuMa and we plan to make him an offer in the immediate future"
That's not the way Western teams have ever operated, it's a distinctly Eastern mindset to believe that players should have no individual power or goals and rather be focused on rigid authority of the coach/captain/etc. (Edit: That's perhaps a bit far, but individualism isn't as highly prized in Eastern societies as it is in Western societies with all our civil liberties and freedom above all rhetoric).
Like I said in the first EG thread, this is exactly a clash of fundamental ideals on how teams should be run and I find nothing wrong with what EG did in the first place.
What happened to Milkis was unfair, but he should have known what he was getting into going on a show sponsored by EG and trying to be the counterpoint without 100% access to behind the scenes information.
It's like if I decided to debate Obama on the debt crisis, I'd lose hardcore because all I know is what's on the net and on the news, whereas he knows all the dirty little secrets and all of the behind-closed-doors planning that's going on.
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On July 26 2011 14:30 Juanald wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 14:22 LeopoldStotch wrote:On July 26 2011 14:04 Juanald wrote:On July 26 2011 14:01 Dakkas wrote:On July 26 2011 13:57 Juanald wrote:On July 26 2011 09:05 CellTech wrote:
If EG *really* cared about having top tier players it wouldn't contradict itself with much of it's current roster.
huh? Everyone on EG is top tear... Machine.. LzGamer.. InControll .. Axslave .. DeMuslem .. Idra ... you cant be serious? You're joking right? Other than Idra, the rest aren't even top-tier for foreigners Machine is easily top 3 foriegn zerg in my opinion even with players like mma boxer and choya joining MLG anahiem machine is considered a favorite that says something. the rest might not have the same celebrity as idra but any one of them can take a major tourney. dont let jealousy or hate blind u these players are far from mediocre. Better than Dimaga, Morrow, Idra, Ret, Sen, Haypro? idra ret and morrow are good but never seem to perform to expectations. i think haypro definetly has the potential to be top 3 if not the best zerg he just needs more tourney experiance. when streaming he seems unbeatable but seems to choke on stage.
I don't get it... why do you talk about performing to expectations as a way of deciding who the best zergs are? If IdrA is expected to win every tournament or get at least top 3 (as he often is) but doesn't, and then some random no name zerg is expected to lose in the first round but instead wins one match before losing at MLG, does that make him better because he performed above expectations, while IdrA did not?
The point is, performing to expectations doesn't matter. The fact is, they are expected to perform so highly because they are all solid players who have posted consistently good results.
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EG fighting <3
Glad to hear your side of the story for sure.
Glad to hear both sides of the story- somewhere in the middle is where the truth is it always seems...
Glad to see EG get better, hope to see you all win more tournaments <3
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It's amazing that some people are upset that EG didn't speak with the TSL management / coaches first.
If they had done so (I also think these points were mentioned already) how are they to know that the management / coaches of TSL would actually inform Puma correctly in the first place or even tell Puma of an offer to join EG? Like someone mentioned early. They could have easily just offered him a contract immediately without word to him that EG was interested.
I think EG trusted Puma to go about the offer the way Puma thought would be best in terms of communications with Mr. Lee. Which, considering the culture / language barrier, in EG's position, I would have done the same thing!
I think there should not be 100% blame on any one person / team. EG should have still contacted the management / coaches of TSL immediately AFTER proposing the offer to Puma. BUT Mr. Lee also should have contacted EG immediately after speaking with Puma instead of going public.
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EPT
